Drumgun

Sorry ;) I'm just defending my point of view, backing it up with legit facts :o . Cave crawlers is the only counter argument that could disprove that view so far, but then again...doesn't it say something that cave crawlers are rarely full? (aka, not many people bothering with them) ;) But sure, we can stop discussing this haha! :P

well said I don't even disagree with that Ari, wth lolol. Though I shall question if the majority feels about it that way. Most people play for fun, not to max out/play for max efficiency etc. Also, when summon came out, older players had 99 cb's + possibly 99 slayer already, so yes summoning was the only skill that mattered to them (except for the people that care for exp beyond 99, which is not the majority). Oh right, and the new players - who is to say they will all do slayer/rock lobs? They are devided into groups, and not all of those groups includes gaining charms. Sw would be a good example. Vex - that's not thorough I'm afraid. Summoning (making pouches) = major exp gains = lots of random events, unlike rc. You have them when quite alot barraging rock lobs (random as soon as you bank), and you have them even more while pouch running. Speaking of banking @ rock lobs, it takes approx 6 mins to regear and get back to your spot (no exp gained during this). Oh and let's not forget the crashers and people messing up rock lobs spawns while doing the blood runs deep quest. Also, your blue charms rate/h is wrong. I aimed for 10 per hour but never made it - its 8/h at best. This is a classic case of robot calcs vs someone who has actually done it. Goodfight. <3: @cave crawlers: ....Okay, gotta admit - didn't think of those. Though we did sort of agree some pages ago that doing them longterm would be rather inhuman to keep up, no? The majority might view summon as a by-product, but the majority sure as hell doesn't keep up with camping cave crawlers for a decent+ amount of time lol XD

80k/h is possible with rock lobs, so let's pit that vs zmi then shall we. It's both just as repetitive/boring, though alot more attention required for rock lobs. Zmi is bit slower exp/h than rock lobs the normal way. However, you earn a bit of money this way, unlike rock lobs, which costs loads if you do it the 80k/h way (barrage). So big diff there, however, you can now do zmi with ess runners - upping the exp/h. In this case, zmi becomes faster exp/h than rock lobs and both costs money. Conclusion: Summoning is harder than rc. Not by much, but it is harder.

You're still completely ignoring the fact that most of Summoning is essentially free Xp gained while training other skills(Slayer). Anyone who does 200m Slayer will basically get 200m Summoning for free(time-wise) with only very little extra work and a lot of money required. The amount of specific time put into solely Summoning while slaying that is LOST from training potential other skills is negligible. With the exception of the price, Summoning requires the one of the least amount of work out of almost any skill. You must remember that when people train a specific skill, they are losing time out of other potential skills that they could have used that time for training. By your calculations, though, you aren't taking into account that they are still training other skills Slayer(and cb's and effigies) with relatively little Xp/hr loss from Slayer(if any). Your 25k-30k Xp/hr rate is like trying to calculate Farming at X Xp divided by 14 hours(or w/e the time is) while you train other skills for 14 hours. That obviously would not give an accurate display of the work required, simply because it only takes a couple minutes to do a farm run. You are losing out of potential Xp in other skills for only a couple minutes, not 14+ hours. The same applies to Summoning, you are making the time/effort required specifically for Summoning seem a lot less than it really is. About your reply to Chilly, I talked to her for the first time yesterday and she was quite nice. Perhaps she simply didn't want to waste Xp/hr and be inefficient by just sitting around chatting in the bank while not gaining Xp? We're talking about skills seperately, not about their combined exp. If a person is only interested in summoning and not in attack and slayer for example, then it's only gonna be the summon exp/h speed etc that matters, not the rest. From your point of view, slayer shouldn't be in the list for hardest skill either then (and it was x pages ago, which is what I'm talking about) since you also gain tons of exp in other skills when you train slayer. Summoning is the hardest SKILL. Meaning we're talking about each skill seperately. Edit: 'Hey' instead of 'ktnxbai' would've been more efficient, since it takes less letters to type. Love you Jeb <333

Well, alot of people would argue that opinion. Don't forget you also have to exchange the charms aswell, which is generally the same as agil/rc (running laps over and over again). Yes it's fast exp, BUT unlike no money loss on agil and money gains on rc, you lose money by doing summoning. Running boring laps and losing money are 2 additional negative points. The only argument you could make when comparing summon to agil/rc is that summon has more variation (clicking on monsters and then run laps instead of running laps, oh joy what a world of difference :rolleyes: ). If you don't go for the camping, over and over again method (rock lobs, super boring), then it's most likely that you'll gain the charms while slaying. If you do that though, the summon exp/h is only 25k/h average unless you design your task list for charm gaining; I think it would roughly be 30k/h in that case. Rc: 60k+/h - agil: 70k+/h. That's more than double the exp/h. So, while you might argue agil and rc are harder due to less variation/repeating same thing over and over again, summon still takes more than double the time = more effort. And no, clicking on monsters and running laps instead of purely running laps doesn't make me go 'omg, this is alot more fun!!'. That could be different for other people though, hence this could all be argued :P @Chilly's daily record attempt: This didn't concern me either way, since there's a guy going for 200m atk exp @ sw. So, that daily record is going to be broken either way eventually. Adding to that, I don't even like daily records - lol. I do wonder why she would be interested in breaking that though. I saw her once at cw bank and I said 'Omg hey Rank 2 Slay!' and she replied 'Ktnxbai' and teled. Either she's pretty arrogant or holds a grudge against me for beating her in 3 cb skills (atk/str/range), while she was way infront of me in all 3 of those skills before we both got 200m in them, so maybe she wanted to break the fact that I have all 3 overall records. Or, it could be personal interest in daily records - who knows :P

Lmao, the slayer skill basically hasn't existed until updates like kuradal got released, which was after summoning. You really think Chilly and all them did their slayer exp before that? Slayer USED TO BE harder than summoning. It didn't last so long. Summoning is the hardest skill. Govellius pretty much said the rest. Oh yeah, almost being 1:1 is the argument that slayer is harder? You might need slayer for summoning, but you also need summoning for slayer + MORE, if you insist on getting summon exp via slayer.

Lol pages ago people were all going 'omg slayer iz hardest skill mannn' 'nowaii its rc!' Summoning is by far the hardest, I'm sure 1:1 slayer/summon is possible, but only with a certain task list - which is probably not a viable one to reach 200m slayer with in the first place. Summoning is either 40k/h camping the uber boring waterfiends, OR you can do it the fast way by barraging rock lobs (wfiends in chaos tunnels is slower, btw). In that case, its 80k summon/h, it's a dodgy place where you can lose your stuff easily though, super boring (and ye I'm the only 1 who can talk from experience cuz no1 camped rock lobs that long), and costs a crapload of money to do both that + summoning. So yeah, unless you're some super rich kid already who can stand extreme boredom, summoning is the hardest skill of rs, imo.

Look @ wc records :P Lagota Pro used sc axes and has a record you can't break with normal wcing (16m week) @Thai: Hunter/rc. But main income from abby's yeah. :( Guys, about them prayer urns - it's not really worth it, is it? You either need to do really short trips or bring alot of urns before it's worth it, and my inv usually has no space for that :o (or am I missing something now?) Also, the other urns seem kind of useless aswell since you need full inv for them all except when cutting + dropping teaks? :S

I Lol'd..... anyone care to figure out how much xp he missed out on by going for max combat first? I calculate that he missed out on around 61m prayer xp... but i could be way off... Atleast 200m exp loss including effigies. Basically enough exp that would've made me rank 1 exp right now if they had been released earlier. I've also been forced to train alot of cb after hitting max melee because it's by far the best way to make money :(, so even more exp loss there. But hey, let's not be Captain Hinesight about it - for all we knew Jagex could've gone for a bunch of non combat updates instead. Just unlucky :P

Not sure how Elvis done it but let's be honest, anyone who makes so many billions in a reasonably short amount period of time has likely not done it in a 'fair' way (depends if you count ge merching as fair). Irl merching is different. You really need to make an effort to make money with it, like make selling adverts, feedback, making packages for each object and put em on mail, etc. Rs merching has nothing to do with being intelligent enough to do it or not, which is only proven by the fact that so many people do it. Pre ge there was atleast some skill involved making money by merching (though alot of money was made by scamming aswell I'm sure), but it's unlikely that people like Elvis made their money during that period. If so, and done in all honest ways, then kudos to him and whoever else. However, most made their major money with putting offer in wait 4 hours sell for higher repeat oops I mean ge merching. It has taken away a big part of Rs that used to make it interesting ---> effort. Things like 200m prayer/herb should be about people who truly love the skill, not for people who just abused oops I mean flip merched in the ge alot who just want easy exp to make themselves look good on highscores, MOST LIKELY with the purpose of making themselves feel 'pro', people worshipping them etc. I believe that's what they call the spirit of the game. So yeah, should have never been made possible to make that much money for so little effort, imo. 200m prayer/herb are huge achievements, and imo you have to really earn them (aka make big effort for it). Can't blame the people who made use of ge merching though - don't get me wrong :P but yeah that did take away a big reason why I chose to play Rs instead of other games. If you cannot appericiate that thought then I would really like to hear from a non top contender who isn't easily impressed by big exp gains and high exp stats what it is that still makes Rs interesting if you take away the difficulty of it. And yes, part of that has been allowing people to make so much money by merching which takes little to no effort. Note that you must also consider that there are games other than Rs out there which might be more fun to play if it's not longer about difficulty. Like yeah, I'm sure the graphics are ok, I'm also sure it's pretty fun to play Rs. but there are most likely games out there which beat Rs on both of that. So, why still go for Rs and not for them other games? :o @Nick: That's ok buddy, thanks for thinking of me though! (and gratz on 99 fish!) :smile:

Yes do not judge the judgers or you will judged by the judging judgers who will judge a judger by their judgement of judging. Lol! Support@@ and yeah lets hope them bones drop to 5k ea har har >.> Elvis passed Telmo now. :P *insert rant about undeserved wealth here*

@page 223: Ty for all them suggestions guys :) I'll try to get a farming routine going + mix up between tds and frosties I guess...but either way, 200m prayer is simply unreachable for me the way things stand, so will have to start my other goals first and hopefully something will happen in the meanwhile that makes it possible again for me to get 200m prayer. :D Also, I've never staked nope, would need alot of luck to make money there haha :P If Jagex would sell rs gp that would be hilarious and brilliant, seeing as I'd be able to afford it due to irl merching lolol! That would infact get me 200m prayer, though im sure the buyable skill resources would skyrocket in price which would cause a major uproar from the 'poor irl' rs player. So, don't see this happening haha XD

Damn, should've talked to you earlier Aslan XD Asked alot of people about which jadinko dropped ugune seeds the fastest, but no one knew lol. Saw on some vid that commons dropped them atleast, so I gave up and just went with those. I'm skipping the trollheim one on purpose btw, it's a long walk so I didn't think the juju dose would last for longer than HH patch + the 4 others. One more thing, since hunt exp is irrelevant to me; are carrions faster ugune seed droppers than draconics? :P

Planting which seeds? Apperentaly torstol would be good money with that farming scroll from dung + juju farm pots. I've bought and used the scroll + it took me 6 hours to get 10 measly ugune seeds, gaining no exp in these 6 hours. A torstol seed is 250k, and I use 4 patches (so 1m per run). The average torstols I'm getting per run (90 mins) is 30-35, excluding the chance of herbs dying etc. while using the scroll + juju farm pots. A torstol herb is worth 40k max each. So from each trip, I only get roughly 300k profit max, and takes 5 mins each trip, then wait another 90 mins. Does that sound like a valid method? Note I'm only getting a little bit of exp for this and it takes a longggg time to prepare if you want to make decent money off this, let alone the time it takes to use up all those seeds you'd have to plant. Pretty sure getting zeal for 200m pray would be even faster lol :s

None of those methods would come near earning 6b I'm afraid :s , but ty for trying to help hehe :)

Yep Lof, would only make prayer a little cheaper I think - actually I don't think it will change the price at all because you spread the ashes the same way you would bury bones = only a little exp. Very unlikely you'll be able to use these ashes on gilded altar imo.

@Zarfnot: I will :), still keeping hope something will happen that will enable me to get 200m prayer after all though, like an update that will make prayer really cheap too train, or a rich fan donating a partyhat or 2 - both very unlikely lol. Speaking of partyhats, have you guys seen the prices of them? I saw a person buying a red phat for 1.7b this morning O.O @Adam: I'm actually hunting right now to get them ugune seeds, which is taking hilariously long (6 ugune seeds in 500 common jadinko's....), and then farm torstols once i make them farming juju pots. Frost drags would be nice, if everyone that isn't staking/pking wasn't doing them, but unfortunately they do. There's no way you could stay there long term, because you'll get so annoyed by all them immature spot crashers that you'll seriously wonder why you're spending so much time on this game. Slayer is bad money if you aren't lucky, so would be the same as tds. Infact, it's no money or even money loss unless you get visages etc. Not sure what dung has to do with moneymaking...ah well XD

Merchanting got better for items like ely/div/rares, but much worse for everything else. It took a week but the margins on the regular items before the update are now *very* small to the point that merching is slower cash/hr than other sources. So it is a huge hit for people without buyables done, but not so much if they weren't merching before. Trust me, that sucks just as much for me lol. That means I can no longer get good money if I ever decided to merch. 600+ tds kills so far, no effigies or claws or anything yet, frost bones went from 14k to 22k ea, meaning I now need over 6b for 200m prayer (something negative always happens for the skill that I'm training to 200m). Oh, and, unlike other top players, no donations for me AT ALL. No luck ftw? And don't even suggest staking, with my luck I'll lose a 500m stake against a lvl 80 with 99 str or something lol. In other words, no choice but to give up on 200m prayer, and I've gone back to 7 hours of sleep since I'm fed up of waiting on that guinness record to be placed. Hooray. :(

Does rank 2 have 200m Slayer banked in effigies or something/ did Tezz make a deal with rank 2, like Wisely Done made with Dark Lust? I could be wrong, but it was my impression from the description on Chilly's latest video that she doesn't have 97 in the skills she wants to investigate her 400 effigies with yet so she won't be using them to defend her rank. But I didn't really understand her comment very well. It was rather confusing. However, if she does decide to use them she could certainly take her rank back. I am fairly certain that no "deal" was made between Tezz and Chilly, but how would I know. How do you know about Tezz doing buyables after slayer then? Tezz is a pker, and guess what? Wildy is coming back! HE also stated (not some random hear-say) that he's not gonna do 200m in all skills. You can put money on it that Tezz is going to pk as soon as he finishes slay. On that note, gratz to him for achieving rank 2 slayer!

Lolol, I was actually playing alot of sw that day, barraging :P (watches some people facepalm) My love and her clan are facing a few major wars and of course I can't let her go through that all by herself (she tends to go on when others give up, rawr). Speaking of which, if you're good at sw or know some people that are eho are up for some fun/challenge, please send me a pm on here and I'll let you know which world(s) this is taking place in + cc name etc. Would be much appericiated! Just reminding y'all that I've also got a social life to work on, which is going to increase these coming years. This year will still contain alot of Rs gametime, but next year...who knows how things will turn out! Will deffo get the top half skills on highscores to 200m though, thats for sure ;) Oh and some interesting news, Chilly posted a little story somewhere as a vid description that she's going for all 99s instead of sticking to slayer until 200m. This means Tezz will become the rank 2 slayer if he keeps it up! :) Edit: Oh and, wb Langer! Did you have a good vacation in Jamaica? Hope all went well! :)

Congratz Jeb!!!! & nice 1 Trey :)

^What the heck? I've never even said that lmao, was someone else who did :mellow: And you're right Foot :P , don't care much for daily records because they can be brawlered etc easily.

@Xensure: That is a really good post and I agree with you on most of it. If you put it the way you did I can understand where you're coming from, but try to see it from someone else's view aswell :P The point that I feel strong about is the guidelines that are being set. For example, Zarfot had an exceptional efficiency rate. As stated before, noone has lived up to it to go beyond it or equal it. YET, those exp/hour rates are being used as a guideline for EVERYONE. I'm talking about human capabilities now, and seeing as I'm really pushing them for awhile now, I hope that you would consider my input aswell. Zarfot admitted he tried to play 16 hours ONCE and stated it was like hell. Why? because being so efficient (example: 80k mining exp in an hour) requires perfect focus, not to miss any game ticks. Don't forget he only played about 6 hours a day (sometimes even less). Now it's easy to say 'he has college so he wasn't able to do more hours', but that's not the real reason. The real reason is that no one can keep up that pace for longer than a few hours a day. While, taking it a bit easier and be more relaxed about things like I am enables you to play alot longer a day. You might not like it, but in the end the person who plays alot longer per day gains the most exp, not matter how time efficient the other player is. Now you could say ''But Zarfot is ranked high on time left till all skills 200m!'' but to be objective, being efficient is only part of the reason why he's up there. The other reason is because he got luckier than anyone else concerning game updates, enabling him to reach some goals alot easier than others, not the mention that he used his yt subscribers to gain benefit aswell. There are alot of Zarfot idolizers and they get very jumpy very fast when someone isn't praising him, but I don't see how any of those people could disagree with these facts. Either way, when figuring out the fastest way to 200m all skills like you said (the purpose of all those calculations you make), then you should also consider if your calculations are humanly viable. And, as said, the person who takes it a bit easier and does more relaxing things, enabling them to play alot longer, ends up with more exp at the end of the day, thus finishing the all skills 200m goal faster. Factors such as luck are not included when saying this though, but we can't control things such as luck. The part that bothered me is that there were about 5 pages of calculations spent on something that just isn't humanly viable (I speak from experience), hence I said, don't solve everything with math. These are real people that are on their way to all skills 200m, not machines. It's essential that you include the human capability side in your calcs, otherwise they turn obsolete and no longer related to the thread, but become pure time killing 'bickering' for people who enjoy calculating stuff out. @Oscarr: that is unfortunate, but I didn't train with jadinko's, hunt pots or hunting brawlers so it is understandable that my record gets passed now.

Got a Jmod msg about this that was typo'd, so I wasn't able to understand what to do now. Bit dissapointed Jagex doesn't contact me about this on their own, while they clearly do bother with Guinness Book records. (the wildy/ft voting for example). If they want publicity then I suggest they contact me about this asap, lol. Also annoyed that only a few of them are reachable + it's unclear which Jmod handles what at Jagex. :\ Edit: @Viv: not over a 5 year period they don't. Also, I'm not aiming for 18 or 19 hours a day avrg - wouldn't want to get dissapointed by the result. I should be able to reach 17 hours a day avrg for 5 years long.

Would be cool if you could get 200m prayer, woodcutting and fletching at the same time. Be the first to 3 200m skills on the same day and add another achievement to your many accolades. actually jdelacroix did this, didnt he? powerbury through slayer in a week please :D Lol ^_^ frost bones, maybe some dragon depending how fast I get frosts. Gotta leave some records for other people aswell, so Jdela can have that one XD :P