warri0r45

Sorry but I agree with Tripsis. And perhaps your gain is a positive gain. Perhaps your motive is to provide a good example for others and for your own children to carry on the butterfly effect that you're projecting in to the world. That's a great gain in some way, isn't it? I'd have to agree with l0rd. I think people are inherently selfish and will do good things (charity) for that good feeling. It's not neccessarily a bad selfishness, but selfishness nonetheless. There are exceptions of course, but most people do not do charity purely for the work itself. I think the people who always say the 'It gives me a good feeling/warm feeling/fuzzy feeling etc.' are BSing it. I do volunteer work all the time and it feels like crap. I move crates in a warehouse that provides food for nearby families that have financial problems. Every time I go and work there I feel like killing all the people who go 'oh its so easy for us to help you and it makes us feel so good'. You have to sit at a freaking counter and give them directions to the food distribution room. [bleep] you. If you had to do some real damn work you would hate helping others. I don't think you have any authority telling people what they feel. Get over yourself. Clearly, many people don't feel the way about charity that you do.

It's fair if there is no greed, which communism assumes. What's greedy about wanting a salary proportional to how hard your job is and the qualifications and training needed to do it? But why do you need more, if you don't want more? (assuming no greed or a desire to have more) You don't, but that all depends on whether you want more. As has been said, people from capitalist societies are likely to want more money proportional to the training needed/effort put into a job, while I suppose those from communist societies wont. It doesn't exactly answer why wanting a salary proportional to how hard your job is and the qualifications and training needed to do it would be greedy. To me, that's not greedy. That's as fair as fair can get, because you get out what you put in. Unfair to me would be dedicating a significant amount of time and effort to get a job which earns the same amount of money as a job which takes relatively little training and effort to get.

Sorry about that. Sometimes it's hard to get exactly what people are saying through emoticons. But anyway, you can tell I agree with you. :thumbup:

I take it you're being sarcastic. Perhaps you should go read up on the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation. It's one of the biggest charitable organisations in the world, and Bill Gates has been ranked as the second most generous American philanthropist behind Warren Buffett. [1]

I agree with everything there, Zierro. Capitalism isn't going to be perfectly fair, either, though on balance I consider it better than Communism.

Excellent! Akerfeldt needs to grunge up the vocals, though. Staley did a better job of it in my opinion. Just on the topic of AIC covers by metal bands: Them Bones by Grave (death metal): http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=6H7aDXJhAeY I think it's ok, nothing spectacular. I must say that a grunge song done in the style of death metal is kind of weird.

Eh, I remember the poster specifically saying something along the lines of "God is not real, and people who believe He is real are [developmentally delayed]". You know what - you're absolutely right (and Meol is too). Sorry, it's just my average memory. In a way I think my post still has some relevance to this thread as a whole, but not to those comments because they were obviously over the line.

It's fair if there is no greed, which communism assumes. What's greedy about wanting a salary proportional to how hard your job is and the qualifications and training needed to do it? Don't forget that in communism, the doctor would get a free education, and provided with necessities while studying. Now it's the bagger who is doing all the hard work, while the doctor is going to school. You make becoming a doctor sound so easy. I'm not concerned about the money involved to get there, it's the effort. If you don't apply yourself and study a significant amount (assuming you're not gifted) then you wont get the good results necessary, and it takes years to become a doctor, not a few weeks. Hell, you could even drop out of school early and start bagging groceries if it were allowed. No chance of that with more professional jobs. I'd hardly call learning how to bag groceries or bagging groceries "hard work", either. You're yet to convince me I'm afraid. How is each person earning the same fair?

Perhaps someone like Frederick Sanger. He's an English biochemist and a two-time Nobel laureate. First for the sequencing of insulin in 1958 and second for his dideoxy method of DNA sequencing in 1980, which paved the way for what was to come in genome sequencing years later. I'll also say Hans Krebs, another biochemist who worked out the metabolic steps in what would later be known as the citric acid cycle (or Krebs cycle, named after him) - a major metabolic cycle involved in harvesting energy from organic compounds. He shared the Nobel prize for Physiology or Medicine in 1953 with a guy called Fritz Lipmann, discoverer of the critically important biomolecule coenzyme-A. Generally speaking, anyone who helps humanity progress further and alleviate suffering is deserving of recognition in my eyes. Being a science student, scientists are pretty high up on my list, and there's plenty more than those I just listed. I also like teachers, volunteers and people who work with or care for the mentally/physically disabled. All you guys rock. :thumbup:

If Ponting didn't get a 100 today we would definitely be on the back foot. As it stands after day 1 I'd say it's relatively evenly matched, probably swinging towards South Africa. Hopefully the tail end can get us to a decent score tomorrow.

I don't think it's perfect either. In fact I'm not really one for pure free-market capitalism. I favour a bit of socialism and economic regulation as well. Obviously nothing quite as extreme as Communism, so we don't agree there, but not completely right-wing economically, either. As for your answer of yes to my question, what to you is fair about a doctor doing years of hard study to earn $X a week if a grocery bagger can earn the same on a little bit of relatively easy training? You can see what I'm saying here, can't you?

Nothing spectacular to be honest. Open a door here, give a direction to George street there. All with a smile and a "have a nice day". I just find being nice is a nice thing to do. Positivity breeds positivity.

Isn't "Everyone is created equal, if you are unable to work, too bad" the base principle of capitalism? A sense of fairness has everything to do with human nature. Regardless, it doesn't matter. If a society takes a perspective and says no to Communism, then pointing that out isn't helping your argument any. As you said, it just so happens that many in the West think that the prospect of everyone earning the same is unfair. Let me ask you the question: do you think it would be fair for a bagger and doctor to earn the relative amounts of money you suggested? What about if they earned the same amount of money? I'm also interested in this sentence you wrote: Communism is an ideology. It's not in the business of accepting or rejecting other ideologies. It's the people (societies) that accept or reject it. I suppose you meant to say that Communists don't have to accept neo-liberalist society. That's fine, so long as you can find a country that will have you. I think you already know that you're on the back foot in that sense.

I'd agree that looking down on people with different beliefs is in bad tatse, but there's nothing bad about denouncing other's beliefs as wrong. I don't know where you get that people here are being descriminated against because of their beliefs, either. Calling a belief stupid/insane or anything else for that matter isn't an attack on the person, it's an attack on the belief. It's good you don't see those posts, but that's because those posts were deleted. There were posts boldy calling people [developmentally delayed] for being Christians. Any type of behavior towards another person based solely on his qualities or beliefs is considered discrimination. It can be good or bad, but in this case, religious discrimination is bad. Its nice to have threads were people can maturely talk about these things, but we have to remember, religion is a life style for some people, and will take it personally. I'm just trying to get us to take it down a notch. It's fine to not believe something and state your reason why, but attacking someone else for not sharing the same opinion is just uncalled for. I saw the posts before they were deleted and I don't think he criticised a Christian for being Christian, rather he criticised Christianity. You're the mod, though. I could just have a bad memory. I'm aware people may take criticism of their beliefs very personally. As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly the problem. Even a mild negative criticism (ok, we're not talking anything eloquent here, but it's a lot lighter than the comments you deleted) is taken as "flaming" and people get personally offended as if it's character assassination. Anyone that deeply tied to an ideology shouldn't be protected from criticism like an overprotected child is by a mother. They need to realise that there are people out there who want to speak out about their views, and do so vigorously. That's just reality, and people are going to have to deal with it at one point or another. On the other hand, I realise that in many ways I'm fighting a loosing battle here. If I want a freer debate about sensitive issues I can easily go elsewhere. Still, my point should be easy enough to understand.

Maybe I was wrong, can't find anything about it anywhere. Could have sworn it was them though. Maybe it is some other band. Santolla is a practicing Roman Catholic, which has caused controversy with Deicide fans, many of whom are against Christianity and are aware of frontman Glen Benton's open Satanism. Many were surprised that Benton even let Santolla join the band, due to his frequent criticism of the religion. Thanks jaerkd00d wikipedia. (Just a friendly suggestion - next time give some indication of where your info comes from so we don't get the impression that it's yours).

I think it's about time people gave up the cliche catch-cry of communism being "good on paper". I don't know about you guys, but someone bagging my groceries earning as much as my doctor sounds crap to me, and that's what communism basically is on paper.

Don't forget Deicide. But seriously, Legion is a killer album whether you agree with the lyrics or not. :thumbup: Isn't one of the dudes in Decide christian anyways? Just tell him it's a Christian metal band, not like he'll know the difference. :lol: Don't have a clue. I could look it up if you know his name? I wonder how the hell he gets on with Glen Benton if it's true... :lol:

I'd agree that looking down on people with different beliefs is in bad tatse, but there's nothing bad about denouncing other's beliefs as wrong. I don't know where you get that people here are being descriminated against because of their beliefs, either. Calling a belief stupid/insane or anything else for that matter isn't an attack on the person, it's an attack on the belief.

Don't forget Deicide. But seriously, Legion is a killer album whether you agree with the lyrics or not. :thumbup:

Perhaps try Becoming The Archetype. Some pretty good metalcore/progressive melodeath. Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/becomingthearchetype

Agreed. There's really not much more to be said. The furthest I'd go down the communism path would be a little bit of socialism.

Merry Christmas while it lasts. Hope you all had a good one. Gotta say that I'm looking forward to tomorrow, and the new year is in the back of my mind now too. Hope 2009 is good one for you guys!

Hell yeah. Symonds is playing, which is good news. Hopefully him and Hayden can get a massive partnership going like they did against the Poms a few years back. That would be great to see.

Good choice. :thumbup: Epoch of Methodic Carnage by Abysmal Torment (album). Ridiculously brutal, yet not too derivative.

The Bleeding by Cannibal Corpse (album). :thumbup: