Dracae

I remember Qeltar and "Don't Resent My Toilet". It, like part of this article and many others told a simple truth, with not so simple consequences: A game, like Runescape will always evolve, it has to, or die and players will always complain about this.

My very verbal opposition to Jagex making 07 and with it the split in the community, has, however carefully I worded it to not make it about players made some people in my clan who like 07 think I hate them. I hope I managed to convince them otherwise since. You can not fault runescape players for playing a game provided by jagex that they enjoy. Whom I do fault is those who make this in to a war, going all out fanboy about one of the 2 options, refusing to see any reason. Even though I would have not made 07, if it had been up to me and even though I still do not like this splitting some players of from the rest, I will admit it is nice to see some old faces returning because of it. I doubt they will stay but would be overjoid to be proven wrong.

I have not been able to draw a conclusion on Jagex motivations. It can very well be catering to shareholders by drawing in fast cash.. but does that explain all? Lately Jagex has also been updating the map, the lore , quests etc. retconning some parts and generally making it better. The iffy story mentioned in the first article is getting a little less iffy. Maybe Jagex willingness and ability to make big changes is a good sign? I admit.. I have my doubts, but prefer to be optimistic.

I am totally against gambling on a game that allows kids to be part of its player base, if there would only be adults I would still loath it but less outraged. It is great to see Jagex taking action.. however.. they need to be fair. After having allowed this sort of thing for ages they need to make very clear that their opinion has changed, so everyone has a chance to stop, before getting busted.

This story line is indeed asking for more! As a critical supporter of Jagex, who has been critical a lot lately, I got to say: I really like the way they are making it all fit together with lore and story lines, some good retconning also.

That will seriously 'pee' my nephew of, lol... poor kid...

I said: 'I predict that no RuneScape god will ever truly win or lose.' Based upon JAgex not wanting to alienate their followers, well they found a neat solution. To me the biggest looser, as in the dead one is the biggest winner. Look at what your adventurers log says.. we are all Guthix followers now. The god who lost most in my mind is Zamorak, who got reduced to playing second fiddle with Bandos and Armadyl, providing canon fodder to us, wile Guthix and to an extent Zaros and Saradomin had center stage. But.. all sides are still 'alive' and kicking, with, as it looks now 'The Adventurer' leading the Guthix side, maybe even until he returns? Ever seen Dallas? I will admit I never saw them killing a god coming, so in that way, yes.. my crystal ball failed.. cursed home-shopping channel..

Ok... this may sound weird, but there is something not altogether right about this botnuke. Almost a week before it MOST gold farmer bots were gone already from the live game. Specially wilderness green dragon ones were gone from each world , totally, wile others like the mature grotworm ones, rune-essence ones and summers garden bots were diminished in numbers big time. You did still see a lot of player-owned-bots around. For those needing proof: I made a post on rs forums about them being gone days before the botnuke was announced, I can predict some things, but not a botnuke. A little ironic is that within hours after the botnuke some green dragon bots returned, not a lot, but some. The disappearance happened at the same time 07 became active, so there might be a correlation. There is some to be said for botmakers being able to make a lot more over there, at least for now. I do not understand though why they would take bots from live game and not make new ones for 07. Any ideas ?

Arceus: The point that many mini games need some fix is very true., on the other hand, I always liked to run.. when plaing FOG, so making that harder or impossible.. i.d.k. . Has been a long time since I played, but I liked the hide and seek, getting in peoples heads. I did also use aincient magics for the offencive part, freezing people. Eventhoughi did not play FOG after EOC one thing is clear to me: running and moving, wile using abilities is not easy for most, I even used momentum in some of the fights for the latest quest to be able to concentrate on moving out of the way of dammage. I think The Floating Pen hit the nail on the head with the conclusion that Jagex got it's advertisement for members right here. My nephew of 9 playes RS also, when he can. He will not get membership for a long wile, if ever. He is soo entusiastic about this new update and I can see why. It will let the very casual free player have many new things to enjoy also. He need to learn english before even being able to enjoy RS fully, but at the same time RS is teaching him the language.

Let me echo that one: wonderfull job indeed!

That is basicaly my idea on the main reason why most players quit RS ( for a wile ). @ thejollyroger English is indeed not the first language I learned, It came after my native Dutch and German, but has overtaken the latter big time, if only because of runescape. My spelling is still atrocious, but then there is spellcheck.. which I need on RS also.. but don't have. I try to make the sentences flow like they should, but I also think the idiosincrasies are like someones 'voice' and shouldnt all be edited out. @ Miss Lioness I have not written that many articles for Tip.it, I write when I get 'inspirered' which often can be read as 'annoyed' . Seems natural that this most times will be about new developements. Don't kill me.. but I send one in about the latest video also. lol.. We will see if its good enough.

wot Yup, I can verify. I don't know if they still remain, because I have an edited .hosts file that blocks stuff pretty aggressively at the IP level, including ads. But they most definitely have had goldselling ads in the past. To be fair, this is something every fansite runs into from time to time. I can't see these either, but I know Silverion has used Google's AdSense, which came with humorous results sometimes (because it's keyword based), but also sometimes wound up with bad ads. Then Runehead had some problems with a particular advertiser-- I can't remember all the details, but I had to agree with the site admin at the time-- always best to have a secure browser. But Zybez had it out so blatantly and up front that I really have trouble believing it was unintentional. There's a reason why Jagex has blacklisted them by way of the in-game filter. No, I was pointing out that he thought we shouldn't be ashamed of those who farm gold to sell it, then proceeds to say he doesn't like Zybez because it displays gold selling adverts. You misunderstood. I told Winlo specificaly she should not be ashamed to be Chinese, basicaly, because some Chinese people oparate goldfarmer bots. That would be like me being ashamed to be Dutch because Geert Wilders is also Dutch, or maybe if you are so inclined, because some Dutch people sell pot to foreigners, I hate bots and all cheating, every gp, xp and qp on my account , exept for some (birthday)gifts I got myself, wityhout sharing, without buying, without botting and that is how it should be. This is a game.. games should be PLAYED and enjoyed that way.

This is something that bemuses me.. it is weird to me, to hear a lot about pk-ing being destroyed by EOC. I have some pretty avid pk-ers in my clan and where the ..lets say average pk-er agrees , the best ones do not. These top level pk-ers were the best and are still the best, EOC or no EOC , 1 actualy does also not like EOC..because pk-ing is to easy now.. where most say its to hard.. It seems to me it is not a matter of Pk-ing being destroyed, but rather changed.. and it takes an effort and also some ability to deal with the change, but iwhen you do and learn the new methodes you could be just as effective again as before. I think there is an other problem with wilderness though, one I think JAgex should fix: unlike the real old days, the wilderness is not atractive to non-pk-ers anymore. With that there is a lot less 'victems'to play cat and mouse with. Why does anyone who is not a pk-er actualy do in the wiklderness, exept hunt the ocasional penguin:? On a diferent note: JAgex is giving us all 6 months of free 07, which will surely help it mainain popularity. I cant help but wonder what they were thinking.. do they not realise a flourishing 07 means a less populated live game? It is actualy possible 07 will remain as popular or even get more popular then the live game.. if that hapens, what does Jagex think to do then? Lets look at the options: - No change, they continue to develope the live game at the dame page, but for less return, since less players play these updates. - Develope 07 and 13 concurent, which costs more in programmer time or means less updates for 13, making it even less atractive. This has a side problem of 07 users on the forums being split about 50/50 for and agrainst updates.. so an other split on top of the 07/13 split. - They fire most their staf and sit back, going: "wow , we hit a gold mine, a lot of income without having to develope anything." Great shareholdervalue.. at a short term. If I had not bla blaed so much about this subject already.. this would have made an other article, lol..

Winlo I personaly think you should not be ashamed for others from CHina who farm and sell rs gold, that is not your doing and not your responsibility. In fact maybe I should not even call gold farmers 'Chines bots' since I am sure they are not only from China. ( Tip.it has more articles by me laying around, so the term might still be seen in future, lol ) Nabbagad I was not talking about the lijnk you showed, interesting and disconcerting piece of data. I had seena a different set of numbers, or rather a diferent sourse, so the last 2 days are new to me. We seem to differ in opinion on justification, partly likely because I actually do not think this is a good bussines desision, I think they will make less then they might think and it will cost in the long term. In dutch we have a term, relating to soccer: 'paniekvoetbal', it looks like that, a panicked rush forward, risking all in the hopes of a goal. As far as you liking playing on 07 servers, I cant and wont comment or judge on that, people and their tastes differ, that is fine. thejollyroger There is so much history , on this site,on rs, even with some people I know on rs and soem clans. Some good, some bad.. I try to not hold grudges and succeed at times.. I remember some times ..in soul wars clans.. o.m.g. the drama.. I have a little more history with Tip.it then the 58 posts make it seem, there was some problem with the forums, I don't remember very well,, that whiped a hell of a lot of posts by me ( and all others ) from the record and for a while I didn't go back after that. I don't really know anyone here though, exept from reading articles and posts. What I do have an opinion about how ever is Zybez: I do not liek the site what so ever, because they have ads by goldsellers, or atleast did last time I looked.. I do not like that at all... a little personal pet pee.. lol..not liking cheating.. or sof.

thejollyroger: Thanks for the compliment, some of the credit goes to the editors. i do like to use separated points, but the numbers were the editor. Very good job b.tw. . Your 'story' put a smile of recognition on my face, literaly and I don't mean the compliment, but you looking back. I am glad you enjoy my articles, and its a pitty Darthaddict did not, but I will be honest, this subject has gotten me to be a bit too negative. Depending on if teh Times publishes all I sent them, you might see why. So I really should stop and go back to enjoying the game. I just thought of something, Tip.it itself is a little bit 'old school' since it is one of the first fansites around ( I think) and THE one I always used. I must admit I use wikia a lot now also, but it does not have thought provoking articles and forums to share those thoughts on.

It was less than 2 weeks (when they originally said 1-2 months) and yes sounded like some overtime, but that's not much developer time, especially since it was only a small team and only a fraction of the whole RuneScape staff. Who says it was only a fraction of the staf? I read otherwise, out of the 'pen'of J-mods who said they got a lot of the staf to test 07, besides it is not done yet.. they are constantly working on it and already messed up by glitching the clan highscores. Also the quest was likely delayed because if it was released at the same time as OSRS then it wouldn't have recieved as much attention as it deserved. I don't know much about this quest, but from what I heard it is to be a new grandmaster quest that Jagex have been working on for close to a year? If that's the case, maybe they needed an extra week to give it that final polish, it's not like it's unheard of that Software development often gets delayed. If the quest had been delayed because it needed more time, that would have been totaly fine, hapenes a lot. It was not however, since an other J-mod stated the quest was fully completed. Sadly I do not have quickfind codes, so you you can choose to believe me or not.. up to you, I for one want all I contend to be true as far as I know it to be true. It is possible the quest was delayed because it and 07 would otherwise be competing for atention.. if that is the case, how do you justify postponing something already anounced for the live game to do a sideproject a week or 2 early? The fact that players on OSRS and RS has roughly the same concurrent users shows how popular it is (not to mention that RS includes a whole heap of bots and f2p players), so OSRS has significantly more members playing on the launch. (And I'm not saying that as to say OSRS will be/is more popular, obviously on launch it is likely to have inflated numbers, but it's just to show how much support and interest it holds). I do not doubt many players like to, at least for a little bit, revisit the past. I would have if it had not requirered a vote. You should not overdo it though, it was at max about 40/ 60 07/13. Someone who like me seems to have to much time on their hads tracked it on the forums. As far as bots are concerned, I do not know from personal experience how many 07 has, but I hear a lot of them and see many offers to sell gold for 07 already, which has to come from somewere. I can tell you, from having seen it with my own eyes that most goldfarmer bots are as we speak gone from the live game. No more wilderness green dragon bots what so ever in any world.. I liek to kill them, so I looked . The mature grotworms are doable again since there are a lot less bots and those there seem to be player-owned-bots. Same for runeessence mine. Summers garden is empty in some worlds, and till populated in others. This would suggest the numbers need to be adjuasted in favor of the live game. If however 07 continues to be more popular thenJagex, like TS-stormrage said, has really shot themselves in their foot, since there is no way you can build a future on nostalgia. Also it's a week... for a quest. People acting like Jagex have failed them miserably because of a one week wait really need to calm down and get over it, a week of extra QA and development will make it even better. It is not the week that matters, it is the slap in the face of the loyal players who normaly do not rant and rave. This part of the community would fully understand a delay for technical reasons, but noone can seriously contend rushing 07 is a good reason, since 07 was suposed to take 2 months anyway and the poll is not even closed. Also where did they say it would possibly delay the new skill? (not to mention that doesn't make sense since OSRS has their own small development team). They did not, it was asserted on the forums, that is why I did not state this as a fact. OSRS having a small development team seems to not be likely. If they had enough programmers to spare they would have fixed the to some rather disasterous clan highscore glitch already. That is also part of 07 developement, sicne 07 servervisits by clanmates caused this glitch.

Well when you have 1 game continuously updated, and an older version of that game that gets to pick and choose what updates it wants added... What else would you call it? 500k votes is required for this to happen, starting friday... Although I see reports of some mods willing to do this at 460k-480k votes too... MMG has stated 480k votes would do. I can certainly understand your conclusion, and it is a fear of mine that you might be correct, I am hopin gthough that you are not . That Wilderness Guardians sig of yours brings back memories sinc I played games that actualy looked like that.. moving dots on the bare minimum of a map. I have actualy replayed some old Amiga and Comodore 64 games here and there ( Starflight!!!).. but that gets old again soon. I understand nostalgia, but there is no future in it.. literlay and figuratively.

on '2013' : Ts_Stormrage makes a lot of good points, I had not considered the private 2006 servers in this equation, since I I shut down talk about these things in my cc. 'On the whole, RuneScape is RuneScape.' : Absolutely! 'it is simplicity itself that they want ' : this seems true for at least part of the players I know who like '07, specially a few older players and some who are much more casual about playing seem to have trouble with EOC. It took me, I am older myself, quite a lot of time to learn EOC, including a long stint at the Dominion Tower. I must also ad that even though I like EOC now, I would have definitely voted against it if asked before hand. It took me being invested in Runescape, really mostly the community, and the realization that I had no choice but learn to get me to appreciating EOC. It is the love of the RS community, which in part is my extended family, that makes me object to 07 so much. 'nobody had ever really needed to go into the Wilderness' : When Jagex brought back wilderness I suggested they made an effort to make the wilderness be attractive to non-pkers also. This would have made for exiting content for those players and .. yes.. targets for pk-ers, with the whole dynamic of cat and mouse. We indeed only see this a little with penguins now. I certainly hope the conclusion of this article is way to pessimistic though.. On 'The "good" old days?' Very clever, the use of the first two paragraphs, and it shows what I think is the truth of the matter: a part of the community will never be happy with any change and always complain. The first article is right that EOC is not what it should be ( yet?) and that micro payments annoy the crap out of a lot of people, but, I still maintain those are not the real reasons reasons to actually quit for the vast majority of players. 0n my own article: It seems our pixelated lives overtook my article rather fast. Some of it changed, a lot stayed the same. I did not realize when writing this how invested Jagex is in 2007scape, it still surprises me, since you can not expect to build a future on 6 year old content. Jagex is pushing the vote, has pushed the release including a lot of overtime and taking a lot of personnel away from the live game. If the vote reaches 500k, which it very well might with this level of investment by Jagex, some things will change. I still think most of the returning players will soon move on again to what ever made them stop the first time, but 2007scape will have a longer life then I expected. If it becomes free I think most of the population that will make up the 07 community will be players who would have normally played the EOC game instead and /or are playing both. It takes commitment to start over, an ability and willingness to invest, that would have also helped these people enjoy the live game. Some things in my article already came true, It did take Jagex a lot of developer time to ad 07scape, as shown by their comments about overtime, diverting a lot of personnel and the need to postpone the new quest and possibly the new skill. They are not done yet either.. Bots are already prevalent in 07 ( I read this on the forums and heard it from clanmates, i can not play 07, since I refuse to 'vote'. Curiously goldfarmer bots are largely gone from the live game a.t.m. As far as 07 not being as people remember.. the first days many clanmates pmed us asking where to get 'so and so' , why was there no '(fill in what ever advance made after 07 you like ). The forums are full with 07 players asking for changes and additions . I hope the 500k votes will not be reached, so 07 will require an investment making people less likely to spread them selfs thin and play both and I hope most my friends , clanmates will soon return after having enjoyed a visit to the past. At the moment between 0 and 20 % of my clanmates on the game seem to be in 07, which is quite annoying, since they can not join the clan chat.

Did anyone else laugh at this quote from the poll page: 'Our desire is to have this service open to free players too but for this we need the support of over 750,000 votes.' Non sense.. if JAgex desires somthing they can do so, the limits they are talking about THEY put up .. not Obama, not Zamorak, not Bill Gates.. they did!

The first article speaks of a totaly different game, something far beyond the change we have seen till now. After thinking about it, I think it would be quite interesting, but probably comercially not feesable. I totaly agree with the second article, suprice suprice., I won't detail my reasonings here, sicne I also sent in an article, which may or may not be published,. Let me say this though: 2007scape will be very diferent then the origional and likely indeed disapoint many people.

At level 99, you can remember things that actually happened. :twss: Brilliant and true!

thejollyroger: I was not around for Classic, came in a little after... made up for that with total addiction .. I mean conviction.. It is interesting to read your comparisons, that confirm what I keep thinking: this is nothing new. There is always something that changes and in doing so causes protest. They should make a new skill for 2007.. called : 'reminiscing'

It seems my article is already obsolete.. Sadly Jagex decided to make a poll..again.. MMG said he 'hopes 'this won't split the community, well I 'hope' this is based on more then Jagex conviction that they could keep the bots out after their earlier poll. The decision to make this poll seems to make short term financial sense, a lot of people who quit will likely at least get 1 more month of members to vote and possibly a few more to play '2007'. I however do not see most of them staying.. There will likely not be much fun in starting over on a dead game, populated by people living in the past. There is a different problem also, I think the ratio pkers to skillers will be off in this already small community. So.. who will make the stuff? It would be a lot better idea to use the programmers that will work on this to fix things like the problems with the client, clancapes and vexes or the last Thok saga, in short problems we have with our REAL game.

Both writers hit their respective nails square on the head!

If it were up to me, and it is not, there would be no RS2 servers. Pre-EOC servers would split the community unnesiserily, since it is absolutely needed to forse a major part of the players to adapt or they never will.. I would be one of them, I did not look forward to EOC, but I also realised I ahd no choice and put a big mental permanent marker line below the old, this helped me give the new a chance. I was suprised how easily I learned.. sure there is still 100s of anoyances, bugs, mistakes, but the overal premise is logical, balanced and sound. Now, if there were to be pre-eoc servers, many would not give EOC a try.. splitting the playerbase.. but if they were going to make them, and they might, then they wil NOT anounce them and not make them untill later, when most dinosaurs finaly gave in and adapted.