Adamfostas

Exactly the same place you found Kaleef's body and spoke to Maisa. You did talk to Osman when he was outside Sophanem, right?

There are two notes from Kaleef. The one you need to read is the one you get from searching Kaleef's body next to the canyon. If, after reading that and talking to Maisa, your quest journal doesn't change, it's likely you've encountered a bug and need to contact Jagex.

Did Maisa tell you to talk to Osman, and to bring him and only him to the canyon?

Ah, I see something I missed. You actually have to read the note you find on Kaleef before talking to the spy. Amending now...

Hmm. It's possible that the monsters he spawns depend on the prayer you're using. Or it could be random. The first time I tried it I forgot my super set, and so needed to *cough* exit a little hastily before my potatoes ran out. The spawn pattern was the same as the second time, though. Anyone else get a different pattern?

What combat style were you using? Also, they spawn in turn so it's possible you killed it before the others spawned.

The quest is insanely easy, and could probably be easily done by anyone from level 80 upwards. *SPOILER* Here's a quick guide for reference: Equipment: Melee armour (w/ range shield for preference), weapons (ddp++ & whip will handle it easily) lantern (pref. Bullseye, if not take tinderbox), prayer pots, super set and escape tele. A charged glory is handy. 1) Talk to High Priest in Sophanem. 2) Go to north east corner of Sophanem and talk to Kef (forgot his name already, think that's it) 3) Go down into dungeon using ladder in temple. 4) You now have two options: the quick (But dangerous) way or the slow (but safer, and requires high agility/thieving) way. Quick: Head through the tunnels east, avoiding the [bleep]es and praying mage as you run past the mage. Go down the ladder. You'll now be in a very dangerous sublevel. Immediately run north while praying mage and eating when necessary, curving round the other room and aiming for the ladder northeastmost in the room you're in. Once you're up, go to the ladder immediately south (avoiding the wall crushers). Slow: From your descent into the dungeon, head north and west and search the lines in the floor you come across to pass the trap. From here, your goal is to reach the most northeasterly-but-one ladder mentioned above. The precise directions are complex, but note that the only enemies you have to pass by are two mages next to each other. Avoid all other passages containing enemies and you should be fine. Go down the ladder when you get to it. Both: Now follow the tunnel east, search kaleef's body, read the note, and talk to Maisa. Tele to Al-Kharid. Talk to Osman. Tell him "It'll drive a wedge between the cities" Go back to the gate of Sophanem, and talk to Osman. Tell him about the secret passage. Head back down the dungeon to the most northeasterly-but-one ladder. Go as far south in the tunnels as you can, and then drink your pots and put on prot melee. Unleash your DDP++ specials on the boss, and then start whipping it. Three enemies will spawn in turn: melee, mage and then range. Since you're praying melee, ignore the first one but as soon as others show up KILL THEM IMMEDIATELY. They're only lvl 66, so they should die easily. Continue whipping the boss until it dies, then pick up the dagger and head back to the High Priest. High level, my bottom.

Superb guide. I admit, I had considered mining gold to raise my smithing (now that I've finally reached what is apparently the dizzying heights of 68), but was confused about what to do with all gold once I'd smithed it. I was stuck in the 'But surely I need gems to craft amulets, it's pointless without...' paradigm. This has released me. Big kudos. Big, I say.

Has anyone worked out how to upgrade it yet? I've spoken to Ava with the device and the 75 steel arrows in my back pack (range level 71) and she refuses to do anything.

Actually, that's not true. If you wish to powerlevel crafting, seaweed is certainly the way to go. You get 75xp per seaweed+sand (melt+Bullseye lens), compared to 62xp for each green dhide. Collecting seaweed and getting sand from Bert is much faster than killing green dragons, although certainly less lucrative. This is without factoring Superglass Make into the mix. If you buy dhides, at current market rates you'll be losing more money if you high-alch your end product than if you just hired a low level to collect the seaweed for you. If you wished, you could even concievably turn a profit by selling orbs (which still give more xp than green dhides). Still, it's up to you.

Just in case you haven't noticed, the new fairy ring (DKS) to the Relleka hunting grounds also provides an easy way to collect lots of seaweed. There's 9 spawns just next to it, along with rock crabs who occasionally drop it. A small tip, but worth noting nonetheless.

PKing is always going to be essentially sociopathic in nature, because you're killing people with the aim of getting their stuff. However, this doesn't make it wrong per se, as it's part of a game where sociopathy is allowed (see, for example, my Grand Sociopathic Day Out Thread: http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=482008) What is worrying, however, is the rise in people killing others purely for the joy of killing, i.e. three-itemers, agility trainers and people on their way to the Mage Bank. While this slaughter again isn't wrong, it is symptomatic of a trend towards kids annoying others just to make their presence felt. Witness, for example, those kids on the bus who like to stick out their feet to make old people trip over. It's done for the purpose of annoyance and to draw attention to themselves, which is just sad. However, there are ways of countering this phenomenon, such as (a) stamping on their feet and (B) carrying a DDP++. It is important to resist these people, lest this trend grow worse and these children grow up and start wearing bigger shoes.

As the poster above me mentioned (Curse you for beating me to it!), the Third Age was the Age of the God Wars. I suspect, therefore, that we'll be getting an expansion to the God Weapons line - remember the Staff of Armadryl from Temple of Ikov and the Ghostly Robes miniquest? Level 80 requirements are a possibility, given the inevitably uber nature of such things.

Of course, they're undead, aren't they? Silly me. I stand corrected.

I recommend replacing the Glory with a Zammy symbol, for the additional +5 prayer. You lose a small amount of attack, but you'll be able to get more hits in per prayer point, so it becomes irrelevant.

Gosh darn it, this sounds exciting. One of the benefits of hunting, I anticipate, will be a new range of high-level foods that are more efficient healers than fishing. Fishing is a ridiculously easy skill to level, and so a skill that requires thought (as hunting sounds like it will do, setting traps and so on) will create a new market in expensive high-end food. Finally, a way of making money more interesting than repeatedly clicking on patches of water... Or, I could be totally wrong, and it could have nothing to do with food. But if it doesn't, I shall regard it as something of a wasted opportunity.

A very well-written article, as many on this thread appear to agree. However, I must disagree regarding the requirement for a new skill. It's a little excessive as a solution to a problem that has come about as a result of the mistake Jagex originally made with the fishing skill: making the hp fish restore too high. The balance between the convenience of fish and the higher restorative powers of the more complex foods is greatly skewed in favour of fish cooking, because, proportionately, the amount of additional hp gained from the complex foods is inadequate. The easiest solution is clear: increase the hp gained from complex foods, or reduce the amount given from fish. *listens to the screams of rage coming from the shores of Catherby*

Just so you all know, this is the response I got from Jagex: Sigh.

That's a fair enough charge, his ethics are really quite mad, even if they have a certain rational beauty to them. However, do not judge the man's metaphysics by his ethics. He applies exactly the same level of cold reason (Hence, Critique of Pure Reason) to it, with very effective results. Mind you, he is an awful writer. His prose is like wading through treacle. Arguments based on 'obviousness' and 'ability to comprehend' are not, I'm sorry to say, logical. This has no bearing on your candidacy for idiothood or not, it's simply that they do not provide an adequate case against the argument of the OP: that there is no rational way of determining the truth value of 'God exists'.

Great point. Great point. People always look at me oddly when I say I'm a quester (well, at least their text looks confused), and witter on about how quests have rubbish rewards. For me, the feel of doing a quest, of exploring a storyline, is the point and the thing I enjoy most in Runescape. The recent quests(Lunar Diplomacy, Eyes of Glouphrie, and now Darkness) have really accentuated the 'feel' of Runescape as a distinct world, rather than just a pretty MUD. I do wonder what these people would have made of traditional RPGs like FFVII. "Waaa! All I got for completing the game was a cutscene and resolution of an epic storyline! I wanted xp!"

Can only have one post as must dash from the comp now, but couldn't resist this thread. A couple of points: First, to all the people using expressions like 'more logical' and 'less logical'. Claiming a statement is 'logical' means that the statement can be deduced a priori. This is bivalent: it either can be true or not. There's no sliding scale of logic. The word you're looking for is 'likely'. With regard to the 'eternal matter' claim: while I don't have time to rehearse the entire argument here, if you can read the Transcendental Aesthetic in Immanuel Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. Despite the wacky title, it's a very solid logical defence of the existence of matter. The postulation of an additional entity on top of that matter is unnecessary, and thus less likely. Note I did not say 'less logical'.

Yes, but then you wrote: Hence my correction. I'm uncertain why you're so dead against a Java command. All the things you mention decrease the 'randomness' of any calculation: there would be certain lucky squares to stand in, certain lucky times to log on, lucky skill levels and so on - all of which have not been discovered in the game, despite extensive testing (see the official forums for the logs of some very bored people). The only thing that would produce the appearance of 'proper' randomness is a fairly standard piece of Java. I have no idea why you wish to postulate all these other convoluted methods. I've messaged Jagex asking them what parameter produces the seed. If they give an answer (which they probably won't, as it would reveal part of the inner workings of the game) I'll post it here.

My main point is that there is no other way of doing it other than a list. As the page I referenced earlier says: Computers aren't random, so in cases where the appearances of randomness are required, they have to use something analoguous to this process. In fact, most electronic devices are similar - the only ones capable of producing true randomness have to be specifically built for the purpose, such as ERNIE, which is used to draw Premium Bond numbers. By the way, the probabilities can be between 0 and 1 quite easily, as decimal places can stretch off to infinity.

I support the sky. Not literally of course, that would make me some kind of Egyptian god.

The lists do not have to be big at all. I would imagine that each time a drop is required, the seed in use is used to generate a random number sequence, and the number at the next position in that sequence is given. All Runescape has to remember is the seed and the position in the sequence it's at. While this means drops would be predictable, in order to predict what you were going to get you'd need to know the same things that Runescape knows, i.e. the seed and the position in the sequence. Since they're part of the engine, you won't know that. It's important to bear in mind that when a number is generated (I'm assuming it's between 0 and 1, using something analogous to the 'nextDouble' message given on the site I mention above), that number will be the subject of a calculation to determine the drop. It'll be like the steps you mention above: first the number will be assessed against the drop profile of the monster killed (i.e. if the number is 0.41, and in the drop profile of the monster anything below 0.5 gives coins, coins will be dropped), and then if it's a rare drop there'll be a second calculation using a second number generated from the seed (it could also be the case that rare calculations have a different seed toordinary drops). Thus, the Ring of Wealth does work - I imagine it changes the drop profile of a monster from, say, rares being dropped if the number is 0.95 or above, to rares being dropped if the number is 0.94 or above. A small difference, but an important one.