Godzira

1) Can you have god without religion? How about religion without god? Examples? 2) Right and wrong is always up for debate. If my family was starving stealing would be right. I realize that you are troubled by the idea that personal decisions are based on selfish choices but I am not.

God and religion are not separate things. Religion is god. I assume that you are speaking of the Christian god. That being what it is, that god has not been around for very long at all. That was the point. As far as your logic argument, if you feel that there is no right and wrong than you should steal. YouÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ll end up in jail, but go ahead. My logic tells me that in order for me to prosper, my fellow man must prosper. So, I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t plan on stealing anything any time soon. Plus, I know I wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t want something stolen from me, and empathy is another tool of rationalization that does not require a personal god.

IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m fully aware that Christianity is an offshoot :roll: , but before Christ there where no Christians only Jews and they are not the same. If they were, they wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t have spent so much time killing each other over the years.

[-X Wrong. Your god, who you listen to for your moral compass, is yourself. Thus, your god is yourself. Wrong again. I am not my own god. I do not need a god to tell me what I should do. Logic guides my choices and logic is not a god it is simply on informational system. No gods, or angels, or anything of the sort required.

I was referring to you saying this: You haven't proven anything. Neither side has. You are right if we are talking about the history of the Christian world. But as IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m sure you are aware, Christian history is only a very small slice of total world history, not even counting pre-history, The world has been under the influence of many religions or even no religion at all depending on the region. Currently the Hinduistic religions make up around 32% of the world population, Christianity make up about 33%, Islam 21% (But it is growing much faster than the others), and agnostics make up about 16% of the total not including those that are non practicing in the other religions. So yes I can prove that the Christian godÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s impact on history is negligible. Even in todayÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s world the Christians are under half of the total world wide and 2 millennia ago they didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t even exist.

What if I want to ban it because I think it's wrong and unnatural? Not because God told me so...but because I believe so. You only think it's unnatural because your pastor tells you it is. In reality it happens so it must be natural. Homosexuality isn't supernatural is it? In fact there are a lot of examples in nature of animals exhibiting homosexual behavior. Are these animals unnatural or are they put here by Satan to influence people to be gay. OMG! That must be it!

It's not even about his reasons making sense to him. I understand that. But his quote is outright wrong and illogical. It has nothing to do with his beliefs.

Interesting quote. But what's wrong with one God being the one true God? I don't get it. I guess I'm just too indoctrinated to think straight. :wink: Here's my response: "I contend that we are both theists. You just believe in a different god than I. When you compare history with your god, then you will understand why I believe in mine." Your reworking of a wonderful quote is nonsensical. I do not believe in a different god than you, I believe in NO god. In addition, I think we have proven that history has little to do with god except for providing us with a running social commentary of the times when the theistic works were compiled.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -- Stephen Roberts

Wow. We must not know enough. For someone with no evidence, just sweeping generalizations, you are being extremely condescending. To be quite frank I know more about the bible (yes I have read it from cover to cover and I do understand it) and basic Christian history than most Christians do. I am not Christian however because even though I can recognize the benefits of the religion to specific individuals, there is simply no way for me to believe that it is anything more than a bunch or moralistic stories. For me to believe that there is more to it I would need some solid well interpreted data which is really non existent at this point. I do not think that my views are irrational or the result of lack of knowledge on the subject. On the contrary, when presented with evidence I have and will research that evidence in depth and if I find it to be true I would certainly adjust my view to incorporate that evidence. This is much more than most of the religious debaters are willing to do I might add. DonÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t assume that because I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t agree with you, that I am uneducated on the subject because that is simply not the case.

Makes sense to you, quite frankly other religions make a LOT more sense to other people. How can you really say this anyway? How you studied all other religions?

LOL a little to old to worry about cool. My opinions are my own. :lol:

You're missing the point. You feel that god is a fact. But, to really be a fact it must be universally proven and recognizable by the majority. That is the definition of a fact. God is not a fact by definition so by claiming that he is you are only impacting your own credibility because you are claiming something that is easily proven not to be true. Whether or not god actually exists he is not a fact.

I think this should read: This is the one part of this that I don't understand, but I know for a fact that 1.) I feel very strongly that God exists 2.) Man has freedom of choice Saying that the existence of God is a fact is a great overstatement no matter how deeply you believe in him. A fact means that it is the truth with substantial evidence. No matter how true you feel it to be, there is a lack of evidence.

True, God created man, but man CHOSE to sin. Even though he created evil (IN MY BELIEF) he created it to be the filter between the christians and non-christains. This goes back to the part above. It still doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t answer the question. If god gave man the capacity to choose sin, god shouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t punish man for acting the way that he was made too. If god really existed and really cared that man believed in him, he would either make man unable to choose otherwise, or make his presence known. If he doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t do these things he can only blame himself for mans choice.

I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that if god created man and man sins, than logic would follow that God is imperfect. He creates a universe giving man the capacity to sin and then is angered if we do? Sounds like god screwed up.

1.Mimes ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ If you shoot a mime in the leg, does he scream? 2.Texas ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ Do I really need a reason? 3.George Bush ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ I have tube socks smarter than this guy 4.April ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ This is when the government sends you the love letters 5.Sporks ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ Really, get a fork and spoon and cut this crap out 6.People that put on their right turn signal in the right turn lane then take a left. What the heck are you people thinking, do you have some rare form of automotive dyslexia or something. Then when you crash into me youÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢re going to give me that ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åwhy did you hit me?ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

clicky for the whole story http://www.venganza.org and yes I am a pastafarian

I'm betting Hooligans FTW

That's not agnostic, that's most christians.

Pirates FTW - They fight global warming

George Carlin hands down. He does reuse a lot of material but you would too if you had been big since the 70s. I think as far as newer comedians Dane cook is funny but I'm going to have to go with Dennis Leary FTW. His standup is awesome and "The Ref" is the best christmas movie EVER. lol

Even with the Anabaptists and Amish, who are given the right to choose later in life, the indoctrination combined with the guilt trips placed on those who do not join, still ensure that there is a religious control over those who are supposedly making the choice. If you get the chance watch the documentary "Devil's Playground" about the Amish kids living in the real world before they make their choice. They usually go back, and just like an Anabaptist friend of mine when asked why they say "I don't want to go to hell". Not exactly a decision based on rationality.

I know lol. But the truth is that I'm older, I run a company, and I only get to play an hour or two a week. I don't really mind the low stats as I still consider myself a good player. Plus whenever I lvl it's a big deal for me because it doesn't happen that often. lol. In the end it's all about the fun you have. I find that even at my lvl I still have a lot of fun. My interest was just peaked by the comment.

because my defense isn't showing on highscores