'Strange Scrolls' - an idea to stop macroing

[hot_mountain]

Lol, some of you guys got this wrong.

 

The whole idea with this is that it's just 'common sense'. With NO pre-made questions.

 

 

 

Questions that generate every time you click the scroll, will, it's a little bit hard to explain, but:

 

Let's say the result of a generated question is this:

 

I didn't party two weeks ago, but I remember doing it yesterday, so when was my party?

 

Alright here we have a question that looks pre-made. But in fact, it's this:

 

I didn't party X, but I remember doing it Y, so when was my party?

 

Okay, looks a bit complicated. So, what is all this? What's up with the X and Y. Well, this is valeus. In there can come any, in a list of time periods in this case. The underlined part varies too, say, instead of "remember doing it", there can be "know I did it", "am pretty sure I did it", "was told by someone I was doing it" (where even 'someone' can be a value, sometimes it says you, sometimes the Mysterious Old Man, etc).

 

The colored parts, they are the one stating the wrong or right answers. They hop, so that the right statement isn't always first, and wrong statements are not always second and third.

 

 

 

And don't think this would actually be very hard to develop, much games / applications use this form of randomizing for varying reasons.

[hohto]

Lol, some of you guys got this wrong.

 

The whole idea with this is that it's just 'common sense'. With NO pre-made questions.

 

 

 

Questions that generate every time you click the scroll, will, it's a little bit hard to explain, but:

 

Let's say the result of a generated question is this:

 

I didn't party two weeks ago, but I remember doing it yesterday, so when was my party?

 

Alright here we have a question that looks pre-made. But in fact, it's this:

 

I didn't party X, but I remember doing it Y, so when was my party?

 

Okay, looks a bit complicated. So, what is all this? What's up with the X and Y. Well, this is valeus. In there can come any, in a list of time periods in this case. The underlined part varies too, say, instead of "remember doing it", there can be "know I did it", "am pretty sure I did it", "was told by someone I was doing it" (where even 'someone' can be a value, sometimes it says you, sometimes the Mysterious Old Man, etc).

 

The colored parts, they are the one stating the wrong or right answers. They hop, so that the right statement isn't always first, and wrong statements are not always second and third.

 

 

 

And don't think this would actually be very hard to develop, much games / applications use this form of randomizing for varying reasons.

 

 

 

If you can create an anti-auto system whic is based on logic, you can even easier create a counter software to it. There would be few different ways to solve this random:

 

* Write down every single possibility to a database. This would take time, but so it would take to Jagex create those. If they wanted to make any logic to them, they should pretty much prewrite sentences and put different variables to some certain points. It wouldn't be too hard to find out the base sentences and then add the variables to it.

 

* Make the bot "sniff" the variables and words which are marked as "important" (like at your example today, yesterday, etc) and then create the right answer that way.

 

* Do it like fatigue was first passed in rsc: send an image of a certain part of the screen to a server where others write the word or chose it for you.

 

 

 

I'm pretty much arguing against all these anti-auto functions which can somehow be seen in game. If they can be seen by everyone, it means everyone can try to figure an answer to them, their logic can be seen with bare eye and it can be seen immediately if the counter software works or not. The best and the most userfriendly answer would be even better detection software which gets update often so passing it would be only a really temporary thing. No random event has done anything significant against autoing, but by detecting the masses are already being banned. These lvl 3 fishers at guild don't get banned because a Jagex mod comes to them and points his staff ov' ban, he has 28 mysterious boxes in his inventory or he has played 23 hours straight. I already gave one example of an anti-auto function in this thread which would be easier for normal players, has an actual point (seriously, how big chances do you have to get a certain random event during for example 48 hour period? Really slight. If one random was there without a count software, it wouldn't matter) and once it gets passed, it's easy to modify it to work again.

[qezrex]

ggeeezzz, this is getting way too technical for me...

 

 

 

i just support this idea. But i guess the only way we will find out if it works is to actually test it, which is probly never gunna happen, with Jagex focusing most of their time on skills or on the game, not the people who ruin it.

[zombie_souls]

I SUPPORT! \

 

 

 

Lets hope those lazy noobs at Jagex HQ can folo through with this idea.. knowing them there gonna add 5 questions (if they do this idea)

[hohto]

But i guess the only way we will find out if it works is to actually test it, which is probly never gunna happen, with Jagex focusing most of their time on skills or on the game, not the people who ruin it.

 

 

 

Or we could look to the past what kind of anti-macro systems there has been, think how have they worked and why have they failed. This offers nothing new under the sun and I've explained it on this thread why it wouldn't work.

 

 

 

And anyways currently Jagex bans thousands of autoers in p2p and probably tens of thousands in f2p every week. They do pay attention to the problem we have and at least I believe we will get something new somewhere in near future; autoers are a bit like rare prices with their peaks and downhills. Currently they are on a peak and Jagex will soon drop them down.

[qezrex]

 

autoers are a bit like rare prices with their peaks and downhills. Currently they are on a peak and Jagex will soon drop them down.

 

 

 

i hope for the rs community you're right. Well, it just seems that Jagex does pay attention, i mean, they release new skills and new items within those skills, and it just makes you think that they've put all their effort into only that and not into people who destroy the game.

 

 

 

I guess time will tell.

[hot_mountain]

I think an idea like this would slow them down to the point that unless it's a really good script, it would be useless to run it.

 

 

 

you can even easier create a counter software to it

 

Not if you don't know how it works.

 

What I've said is just a small small number of 'values', in reality there would be way more.

 

 

 

Write down every single possibility to a database.

 

I've thought of that, but maybe we'll want to make some questions a bit rare, so that people can't just write them down.

 

This would take time, but so it would take to Jagex create those.

 

But if you've read what I've written, you'll realize that if Jagex writes 1k questions, the number of generated questions will be at least 100k+.

 

Make the bot "sniff" the variables and words which are marked as "important" (like at your example today, yesterday, etc) and then create the right answer that way.

 

This is also build upon the fact that the macro knows what parts are important. I think as the question would vary much, it would be hard to do this. They'll need the (just an example, the more jagex write the more effective) 100 valeus that state if it's wrong or right, and the 100 that "yesterday", "last week" etc etc

 

So that would mean 100x100=10k combinations for them to write in the 'sniff' database. This would take far more time than for Jagex to develop it, and by the time the coders are done, jagex simply replaces values.

 

 

 

 

 

But anyways, you're right, this would not stop macroers. In reality, there's only one way to do it.

 

But anyways, thanks for arguing, I like it :mrgreen:

[2dtv0]

good idea but the autoers would be programed to answer silly question like

 

"is there a sky in rs?"

[hohto]

What I've said is just a small small number of 'values', in reality there would be way more.

 

 

 

Brainlessly copying the values is faster than actually thinking which ones to put. It would be faster to copy them than to create them.

 

 

 

I've thought of that, but maybe we'll want to make some questions a bit rare, so that people can't just write them down.

 

 

 

If some questions were rare, they wouldn't even really need to be noticed. First of all the odds to get one certain random are pretty rare. After that the odds to get a random variable from all the thousands or hundreds... If I was a bot creator I wouldn't lose my dreams because I didn't have one or two values which like never come. After all the life time of one "lvl 3 chinese skiller" is pretty low.

 

 

 

But if you've read what I've written, you'll realize that if Jagex writes 1k questions, the number of generated questions will be at least 100k+.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is also build upon the fact that the macro knows what parts are important. I think as the question would vary much, it would be hard to do this. They'll need the (just an example, the more jagex write the more effective) 100 valeus that state if it's wrong or right, and the 100 that "yesterday", "last week" etc etc. So that would mean 100x100=10k combinations for them to write in the 'sniff' database. This would take far more time than for Jagex to develop it, and by the time the coders are done, jagex simply replaces values.

 

 

 

I'll answer to these 2 questions here at once. First of all it would be as hard (or even harder) to Jagex to create a software which classifies the right words. To make a program to understand which would be the right answer, they should first "teach" the logic of it to it. This would need a lot of job

 

and copying it wouldn't be that hard. It's true that sniffing the whole database for 10k combinations takes a lot time, more than writing 100 combinations and then putting 100 variables there. However, the could be created same way as this: first copy paste 100 sentences from the decompiled source, after that copy paste the variables and after that copy paste or create an algoritm to detect the right answers.

 

 

 

Also don't forget that Jagex should write those sentences in both English and German. However autoers could chose to write them only to 1 version.

[ShadowsSaved]

Nice Idea. =D> This event unlike some events which take you away from where you are located, doesn't which will be good for many players due to losing drops or something similar when taken away. :D

 

 

 

This may help in stopping some macroers but eventually this game is going to have to many random events, which for the honest players can get annoying or just appear at unfortunate times. :wall:

[drapit]

Jagex never did like macroers. They nvr liked us telling them to take out randoms either. Thats called sitting on the fence. The best way to stop macroers is to get a 'macro task force' which scouts around popular macr spots banning them immediately

[hot_mountain]

Yeah, as you say, there is no way to actually, REALLY REALLY, stop this, but I think if Jagex wants to keep F2P they should add something similar to this, as the macroing now is terrible.

[hohto]

Jagex never did like macroers. They nvr liked us telling them to take out randoms either. Thats called sitting on the fence. The best way to stop macroers is to get a 'macro task force' which scouts around popular macr spots banning them immediately

 

 

 

That would mean more hired staff. There's too many servers and far too many popular spots. They'd also need to make sure the suspected character really is autoing, so have fun banning all the autoers even from 1 server. They'd need so big amount of new hired staff that it wouldn't just be worth it.

[hot_mountain]

Yeah..

 

 

 

There's another idea going around about validating the client with packets to auto-ban macroers which uses a hacked client. That would be a very god suggestion for the 'serious', and my little idea would work against people using less advanced autos, like color-clickers.

[hohto]

Yeah..

 

 

 

There's another idea going around about validating the client with packets to auto-ban macroers which uses a hacked client. That would be a very god suggestion for the 'serious', and my little idea would work against people using less advanced autos, like color-clickers.

 

 

 

Color clickers are pretty much dead by now. They were the thing in rsc and early rs2, but not anymore.

[Cloudwolf]

100% agree.

 

 

 

Good idea :D