Lime_Mercury Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Aside from the increased risk of alcoholism and other health issues, I'd always seen it as voluntary risky behavior, like driving without a safety belt. For the record, I did not drink until I was 21. so there's this thread in p2p general called "the most annoying things ppl do on runescape" i am tempted to post "ya wen im cybering with a girl and they log off for no reason" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Joining the army gives an increased risk of death and other health/mental issues. Joining the army is a much more serious respinsibility than drinking. Yet we are going to allow people, who can't even decide if they will drink or not to make it? Same goes for voting. We don't trust people to be responsible with their drink, but voting, thats no issue. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmz91 Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Well, opinions around here are as follows: Me: I think that it's ok to drink as long as you don't try to get drunk all the time. In my experience, drinking can lead to various fun moments with people around you and as long as you do things responsibly (i.e. know when to stop and actually stop before you start barfing or anything) there is no problem with it. Besides, it can be a great social relief for some, for others a nice distraction and for others a lame excuse to get away with something they wouldn't do when they're sober :XD: Friends: Most likely the same opinion as me. Although, there are some who are just idiots and like to get insanely wasted - which I don't approve of. I help them out but in the end it's their choice anyway. Parents: Hmm, I really have no idea what my parent's stance is on this subject. I'd say that many times when I go out I come home smelling like alcohol and cigarettes (though I don't do the latter myself) and they've never told me anything or asked me about what I was doing. I guess this is because they trust me enough to know that I'm not some sort of idiot who goes out of control whenever he gets his hands on something forbidden. Ps. I'm almost 16 and have been trying it for about a year or so. Pss. Yes, I'm fully aware of the circumstances that it can bring- in fact, some people at school have died of drinking (whether it was drinking and driving or simply throwing up till they died) and also know some people who have alcoholic family members (my condolences to them). 1600+ Total 96 Combat 1656th to 99 Firemaking. Completed on March 24 '07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime_Mercury Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Joining the army gives an increased risk of death and other health/mental issues. Joining the army is a much more serious respinsibility than drinking. Yet we are going to allow people, who can't even decide if they will drink or not to make it? Same goes for voting. We don't trust people to be responsible with their drink, but voting, thats no issue. You know that argument's not going to fly with me. The armed forces is a career choice, whereas alcohol is a judgment impairing drug. Under the influence of this drug, you can do much worse than you could do in the army. so there's this thread in p2p general called "the most annoying things ppl do on runescape" i am tempted to post "ya wen im cybering with a girl and they log off for no reason" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeLeggedLion Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 alcohol is a CHOICE, one which can kill you. joining the armed forces is a CHOICE, one which can kill you. The whole "it's wrong to drink la la al" is BS. No it's not wrong to drink underage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poopingman Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Its not any more harmful for an underage person to consume alcohol compared to someone 21 and up. Its just depends how much you believe in the law itself. Metal fans, check out my band!Still the King.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Joining the army gives an increased risk of death and other health/mental issues. Joining the army is a much more serious respinsibility than drinking. Yet we are going to allow people, who can't even decide if they will drink or not to make it? Same goes for voting. We don't trust people to be responsible with their drink, but voting, thats no issue. You know that argument's not going to fly with me. The armed forces is a career choice, whereas alcohol is a judgment impairing drug. Under the influence of this drug, you can do much worse than you could do in the army. Whether or not it is a career choice does not matter. The point is that it is a choice. A more deadly and health affecting choice than drinking. Do all drinkers develop health problems? No. Do the majority of people in the army find it hard to cope with what they have seen (AKA mental issues) after? Yes. The dangers of joining the army outweigh that of drinking alcohol a few years younger by a hell of a lot. So why can we trust these people to be responsible in the army, yet not to drink responsibly? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime_Mercury Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Whether or not it is a career choice does not matter. The point is that it is a choice. A more deadly and health affecting choice than drinking. Do all drinkers develop health problems? No. Do the majority of people in the army find it hard to cope with what they have seen (AKA mental issues) after? Yes. The dangers of joining the army outweigh that of drinking alcohol a few years younger by a hell of a lot. So why can we trust these people to be responsible in the army, yet not to drink responsibly? Oh, it absolutely does matter! The armed forces is a highly disciplined and regulated environment! I would be willing to wager that in the United States there is a higher incidence of alcohol related deaths than there is in combat or as a result of serving in the armed forces (say, accidents or suicides). I think I'm going to have a shot of tequila now. so there's this thread in p2p general called "the most annoying things ppl do on runescape" i am tempted to post "ya wen im cybering with a girl and they log off for no reason" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 It doesn't matter exclusivley about deaths, the risk factor for going in the army is much, much higher than drinking a few years younger. Both from mental and health issues and death. I don't know how you could contest that. Im trying to see what your saying, but it sounds very much like "Going into the army has less risk than drinking". With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime_Mercury Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 It doesn't matter exclusivley about deaths, the risk factor for going in the army is much, much higher than drinking a few years younger. Both from mental and health issues and death. I don't know how you could contest that. Im trying to see what your saying, but it sounds very much like "Going into the army has less risk than drinking". Well, it doesn't have to be in just deaths, I think we could do it from a monetary standpoint, and I think it'd be next to impossible to make the case that alcohol is better for our society than is the armed forces. But I think I digress. Your first statement to me was that joining the army gave an increased risk of death and other mental health issues. I'm still doubtful that's the case. so there's this thread in p2p general called "the most annoying things ppl do on runescape" i am tempted to post "ya wen im cybering with a girl and they log off for no reason" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 I'll post what I wrote about this topic on DGI: I don't believe that breaking the law is justified unless the law contradicts a greater moral principle. For example, in the civil rights movement, civil disobedience was used to overcome discriminatory laws which violated the greater moral principle that all men are created equal. Is the right to drink alchohol a great moral principle? Or is drinking a priveledge that should not be exercised without permission? The law says no underage drinking - what reason is there to break the law other than "I want to drink"? There is no moral reason why the law is unjust, so it ought be obeyed. I'd see it as a right of passage rather than a law breaking excercise. "Everyone else is doing it" is a poor excuse, I know, but I'd say it gives the drinker some good life lessons about friends, sex, drugs and, of course, alcohol. These lessons are a risky thing, admittedly, so this is just my pseudo-justification of underage drinking. :lol: The thing with alcohol is, depending on the culture (here in Australia, for example, we're all generally big drinkers) kids will always have a way of getting thier hands on it. This in itself is a rediculously difficult thing to police as older brother can go buy a carton and then behind close doors tell little brother to go nuts. I'd propose the best way to combat this pretty dangerous attitude is with underage driking. That's right, underage drinking. More specifically a steady introduction to alcohol by parents at say 14-15 which I'd argue gives them a better respect for the drug by the time they're 18 so they don't end up dead on the floor of a club with an ecstacy tablet in thier gut which is half full with vodka too. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomSnapClap Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Alcoholism runs in my family, so I am cautious about drinking. I do it occasionally (I am underage) for fun but not a lot. I drove a four wheeler drunk once, and almost got hit by a car. :oops: I am against drinking and driving and drinking extensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Alcoholism runs in my family, so I am cautious about drinking. I do it occasionally (I am underage) for fun but not a lot. I drove a four wheeler drunk once, and almost got hit by a car. :oops: I am against drinking and driving and drinking extensively. Rediculously unrelated, but nice choise in music (avvy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captindeath Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 In one year I can go die for my country, but I won't be able to get a drink. Screw that. So many people agree with your point, myself included. If you went and fought for your country, I do not think anyone would care if you got totally wasted and were underage (even though you would be in the military at least until 21, where you do not have time to get drunk). You would be able to drink as much as your little heart desired if you had the courage to defend the freedom and liberties that we have. That is the worst argument I have ever heard for underage drinking. I just read this from the first page and I dont know if anyone said anything else. The fact that you can fight for your country is completely different than actually fighting. Just because you have the right to fight does not give you the right to drink. Personally, I do not care whether people drink underage because it will always happen and you cant really control it and people know what could happen if they get drunk and they face the consequences that the law gives out. I think it is wrong to try and put yourself at the same level of a soldier without actually being one. There is no greater sacrifice that someone can give and using them to change something as dumb as underage drinking is just direspectful to the brave men and women who serve for you. This just is a stupid arguement and it probably has nothing to do with the last few pages, but I dont care. Nobody can control his own life. The best you can do is chose to fill the roles given to you with good people, people who love you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralinre Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Is the right to drink alchohol a great moral principle? Or is drinking a priveledge that should not be exercised without permission? It's neither a right nor a neccessity. I guess you could call it a priveledge however why should the government decide what priveledges you can and cannot part take in? The government monitors other priveledges. For example, the government regulates driving licenses because driving carries safety risks. Drinking also carries safety risks, so why can't the government regulate it as well? The law says no underage drinking - what reason is there to break the law other than "I want to drink"? There is no moral reason why the law is unjust, so it ought be obeyed. I won't argue morality. However i will agrue practicality. In America, you are allowed to die for your country at 16, you are allowed to decide who runs your country at 18. Technicaly, most people would consider you an adult at 18 and so why is there a 21 age limit on alchohol? In my opinion it is ridiculous to entrust someone with the decision of joining the army or voting and not extending that to drinking. Unless whether or not having a beer is a more important decision than sacrificing your life for your country. Hypocricy, in my opinion. I would agree that there is a contradiction in the age requirements. I believe the solution is to lower the drinking age to 18 or to raise the military age to 21. There are proper, legal channels for doing this. I do not believe that the current laws are immoral, even if they are illogical, and if they are not immoral, they should be obeyed until they are changed. The law says no underage drinking - what reason is there to break the law other than "I want to drink"? There is no moral reason why the law is unjust, so it ought be obeyed. I don't think this, but surely if one thinks there isn't a problem with drinking under a certain age then it raises the greater moral principle of not restricting peoples freedoms unjustly. True. And if you'd like to play devil's advocate and present an argument as to why it would be "restricting peoples freedoms unjustly" then I'd be glad to discuss that tomorrow when I'm not so tired. :) Or is drinking a priveledge that should not be exercised without permission? Why would doing what you want to your body (in the cases where it doesn't affect other people) be a privilege? Is having sex a privilege that should not be exercised without permission? Adults do not need permission for sex. However, there is an age of consent for sex, because it carries physical and emotional consequences. There is no problem with consenting adults engaging in such behaviour, but children are not legally able to do so. It is the same with drinking. Certainly responsible adults should be able to exercise the priveledge of drinking, but should children? Of course, in many countries, children are able to drink, and many of those countries have lower rates of alcohol, drunk driving, and alcohol-related deaths than the U.S. So perhaps there is merit in allowing children to drink. However, I don't know that American attitudes towards alcohol would allow such responsible use for all ages. There would still be too much abuse of the system. I personally have no moral problems with responsible persons drinking in moderation, regardless if the person is 13 or 30. I don't necessarily condone the law as it stands. (Note that I myself am not a drinker, nor do I plan to be, simply because of personal preference.) My issue is simply with those who needlessly break the law, rather than legally change it or obey it. "In so far as I am Man I am the chief of creatures. In so far as I am a man I am the chief of sinners." - G.K. Chesterton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 It doesn't matter exclusivley about deaths, the risk factor for going in the army is much, much higher than drinking a few years younger. Both from mental and health issues and death. I don't know how you could contest that. Im trying to see what your saying, but it sounds very much like "Going into the army has less risk than drinking". Well, it doesn't have to be in just deaths, I think we could do it from a monetary standpoint, and I think it'd be next to impossible to make the case that alcohol is better for our society than is the armed forces. But I think I digress. Your first statement to me was that joining the army gave an increased risk of death and other mental health issues. I'm still doubtful that's the case. So, lets hypothesize. One son who is 18 comes to you and says he wants to join the army. The other who is also 18 comes to you and asks you for a beer. You're telling me you'd be more worried for the saftey of your second son than the first? Even if that was the case, there is still the matter of voting. The government monitors other priveledges. For example, the government regulates driving licenses because driving carries safety risks. Drinking also carries safety risks, so why can't the government regulate it as well? The driving age is 16, so your not an adult yet. I was mainly talking about restricting adults (AKA people who vote) from activities like drinking. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryjoe Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Its not any more harmful for an underage person to consume alcohol compared to someone 21 and up. Its just depends how much you believe in the law itself.It actually is more harmful if your body isn't fully developed but you would needed to get wasted alot to do that. I heared from someone (probably another BS made up statistic :^o ) but someone told me that if you get wasted something like 100 times before you are 18 )or fully developed) then you will have serious brain and liver damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikephoto Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 i think you just made this thread to just tell people you drink and to show off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman089 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 i think you just made this thread to just tell people you drink and to show off Deloriagod... showing off? Surely you jest! Gamertag: King Arizona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikephoto Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 i think you just made this thread to just tell people you drink and to show off Deloriagod... showing off? Surely you jest! lol i must me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 So, lets hypothesize. One son who is 18 comes to you and says he wants to join the army. The other who is also 18 comes to you and asks you for a beer. You're telling me you'd be more worried for the saftey of your second son than the first? It's not the safety of your sons that matters in this situation. The safety is for the people in the car that your son smashes into because he's drunk and too young to make an intelligent decision about driving drunk, when he is drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 So, lets hypothesize. One son who is 18 comes to you and says he wants to join the army. The other who is also 18 comes to you and asks you for a beer. You're telling me you'd be more worried for the saftey of your second son than the first? It's not the safety of your sons that matters in this situation. The safety is for the people in the car that your son smashes into because he's drunk and too young to make an intelligent decision about driving drunk, when he is drunk. So, lets trust someone with a gun, who we can't trust to not drink and drive? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTear Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 So, lets trust someone with a gun, who we can't trust to not drink and drive? It seems better to trust the judgement of someone who's been rigorously trained in the use of a deadly weapon, than to trust someone who's judgment is chemically impaired? -This message was deviously brought to you by: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 So you would trust someone with a gun who you can't trust not to drink and harm others or themself? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 So, lets trust someone with a gun, who we can't trust to not drink and drive? It seems better to trust the judgement of someone who's been rigorously trained in the use of a deadly weapon, than to trust someone who's judgment is chemically impaired? You make a good point. Drinkers aren't trained to drink. hence why I feel the argument I presented on the last page of a gradual introduction of alcohol to kids by parents holds some merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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