Gender Dysphoria

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

Edit: That was kind of wordy. The basic idea is that Paul only considered the sexual aspect of homosexuality. Namely, the actual act of anal sex. He believed that men who have sex in the butt with other men could easily switch back to having sex with vaginas, in the same way that one could easily switch from oral to vaginal. He did not consider that homosexuality could be more than a just a preference for a particular orifice.

 

 

 

Note that Paul also condemns men being "inflamed with lust for one another" - this isn't an action, it is an attitude, or way of being.

 

Inflamed with lust after they abandoned heterosexual sex.

 

 

 

The "lust" part signifies that this passage is purely sexual.

 

 

 

The "after" part signifies voluntary choice.

[insane]

So you're saying that Paul is condemning acting on homosexual desires, but not condemning having homosexual desires?

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

So you're saying that Paul is condemning acting on homosexual desires, but not condemning having homosexual desires?

 

Paul is condemning both having and acting on homosexual desires as a sinful choice, much like a person who chooses to have sex with underage girls rather than grown women even though he can be aroused by both.

[RayOxide]

^Spam?

[darkmage099]

^Spam?

 

 

 

Sorry, but you aren't one to talk, Ray.

 

 

 

 

 

I think homosexuality deserves its own thread...

 

 

 

 

 

Serephurus, I remember having intense religious debates with you (I being on the Islamic side you being on the Christian side). Why the change? What happened?

[The Dark Lord]

Yesterday, I had a fight with my dad. He just starts yelling at me and I calmly tell him why I feel the way I do and that I plan to get hormone replacement therapy when I'm of age. He starts telling me that I'm full of BS and that my friends are all a bunch of Bs because they are supporting me.

 

 

 

My mom was emotional, which made my father even more angrier with me because she's a woman and she was crying.

[darkmage099]

Yesterday, I had a fight with my dad. He just starts yelling at me and I calmly tell him why I feel the way I do and that I plan to get hormone replacement therapy when I'm of age. He starts telling me that I'm full of BS and that my friends are all a bunch of Bs because they are supporting me.

 

 

 

My mom was emotional, which made my father even more angrier with me because she's a woman and she was crying.

 

 

 

Put yourself in their place. It's not like they grew up in a society where transgenders were accepted (or even known). How hard is it for them?

[Bubsa]

^Spam?

 

Will you please just STFU? People having discourse over a relative tangent beyond your comprehension is not spam.

[The Dark Lord]

Yesterday, I had a fight with my dad. He just starts yelling at me and I calmly tell him why I feel the way I do and that I plan to get hormone replacement therapy when I'm of age. He starts telling me that I'm full of BS and that my friends are all a bunch of Bs because they are supporting me.

 

 

 

My mom was emotional, which made my father even more angrier with me because she's a woman and she was crying.

 

 

 

Put yourself in their place. It's not like they grew up in a society where transgenders were accepted (or even known). How hard is it for them?

 

 

 

It must be very hard for them. They're hurting me emotionally in the process though.

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

Yesterday, I had a fight with my dad. He just starts yelling at me and I calmly tell him why I feel the way I do and that I plan to get hormone replacement therapy when I'm of age. He starts telling me that I'm full of BS and that my friends are all a bunch of Bs because they are supporting me.

 

 

 

My mom was emotional, which made my father even more angrier with me because she's a woman and she was crying.

 

 

 

Put yourself in their place. It's not like they grew up in a society where transgenders were accepted (or even known). How hard is it for them?

 

They did grow up in a society where transgenders were known and accepted by some. Their religion is holding them back by about 5 decades.

[insane]

So you're saying that Paul is condemning acting on homosexual desires, but not condemning having homosexual desires?

 

Paul is condemning both having and acting on homosexual desires as a sinful choice, much like a person who chooses to have sex with underage girls rather than grown women even though he can be aroused by both.

 

 

 

So how is this not equal to a passage in the Bible that condemns homosexuality? What is homosexuality besides having homosexual desires? I don't understand how you can say that this isn't a Biblical passage condemning homosexuality.

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

So you're saying that Paul is condemning acting on homosexual desires, but not condemning having homosexual desires?

 

Paul is condemning both having and acting on homosexual desires as a sinful choice, much like a person who chooses to have sex with underage girls rather than grown women even though he can be aroused by both.

 

 

 

So how is this not equal to a passage in the Bible that condemns homosexuality? What is homosexuality besides having homosexual desires? I don't understand how you can say that this isn't a Biblical passage condemning homosexuality.

 

It's a passage condemning homosexuality for the specific reason that it is nothing more than a willful preference of sexual pleasure. Since this view of homosexuality has long since been revoked, as homosexuality is neither willful nor purely sexual, this passage belongs with numerous other outdated customs and laws of the bible. The only passage that condemns homosexuality in general terms is Leviticus (although I suspect Moses would have revealed the same outdated reasoning as Paul if he had written a lengthier passage).

[insane]

It's a passage condemning homosexuality for the specific reason that it is nothing more than a willful preference of sexual pleasure.

 

 

 

Because that's what they thought homosexuality was (in general). Just because we've changed the definition to become more broad doesn't mean that they change their stance on this new definition. You can't expect them to condemn something that has only been defined since after the Bible has been written. It's like saying the genetic modification of a babies' cosmetic features prior to birth isn't immoral according to the Bible because it doesn't specifically mention it. There are other principles and passages not explicitly stating it that you can derive other the moral rule from.

 

 

 

How do you suppose that homosexuality isn't purely sexual? I just read the wikipedia article on homosexuality and it was described as entirely sexual.

 

 

 

Here is a quote from the article:

 

today the term is used exclusively in reference to sexual attraction and activity.

[azntemplar_00]

^Spam?

 

 

 

No. ^Spam. Quit it, will you?

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

It's a passage condemning homosexuality for the specific reason that it is nothing more than a willful preference of sexual pleasure.

 

 

 

Because that's what they thought homosexuality was (in general). Just because we've changed the definition to become more broad doesn't mean that they change their stance on this new definition. You can't expect them to condemn something that has only been defined since after the Bible has been written. It's like saying the genetic modification of a babies' cosmetic features prior to birth isn't immoral according to the Bible because it doesn't specifically mention it. There are other principles and passages not explicitly stating it that you can derive other the moral rule from.

 

The definition has not become more broad. The definition has been changed completely. In my previous post, I showed that Paul assumed homosexuality was a willful preference of sexual pleasure, a choice made during life, as if we are all capable of bisexuality and some of us follow the right path of penetrating vaginas while others eventually decide to deviate by penetrating butts.

 

 

 

Yes, there are principles and passages stating that one should not hurt one's fellow man from which you can derive that harming a baby is wrong. However, there are no principles and passages, other than Leviticus, that would lead you to believe that a man cannot love another man.

 

 

 

 

How do you suppose that homosexuality isn't purely sexual? I just read the wikipedia article on homosexuality and it was described as entirely sexual.

 

 

 

Here is a quote from the article:

 

today the term is used exclusively in reference to sexual attraction and activity.

 

From the top of the article, there are two meanings:

 

Homosexuality can refer to both attraction or sexual behavior between people of the same sex, or to a sexual orientation. When describing the latter, it refers to enduring sexual and romantic attraction towards those of the same sex, but not necessarily to sexual behavior.

 

Those two meanings also apply to the term "heterosexuality." I assume that we are using the latter meaning, as we are not sex researchers discussing sexual acts and whatnot.

[RayOxide]

Many things here.

 

 

 

PCY can spam, but when someone else does, it's not allowed!?

 

 

 

Oh, and btw, they were speaking of something OTHER than the proper topic. There are topics for homosecuallity. Talk about it in them, and Azn, you being a mod (I think), I thought you would notice PCY spams more than me, same for you Bubsa, you know it too.

 

 

 

I spam one time here, and I get told to STFU?

 

PCY spams around 10 times a day and makes people happy? Fudge it!

 

 

 

Yep SPAM

[ClareJonsson]

Myself, I find people who quote the bible annoying. Anyone who lives by it word for word is lying about their life style.

 

 

 

The bible has a message yeah, but it's not really meant to be taken literally, but more as a whole picture.

[Flamecaller]

He's a boy, I believe?

 

 

 

I think a Christian-oriented psychologist will most likely be the worst thing for you. They will try to convince you that you are just confused or something of the sort. Kind of like Christian-oriented "gay camps". In my opinion, it will be very hard to near impossible to convince your parents this is what you truly want. It's their confusion also.

 

 

 

The funniest thing about a "gay camp" is the sheer irony of it all. Yes, we're going to take 100 boys who think they're gay and stick them all in one place.

 

 

 

Surely, by the end of the summer, they'd all end up on their knees, and it wouldn't be to pray...

 

 

 

As for the OP, if you're sure about how you feel, then all I can say is have fun mutilating your body over the next couple decades to make yourself feel better about yourself. I really hope you're smarter than that, but most are not. There are two things you'll have to realize here to avoid that - 1) If you're religious, that God doesn't make mistakes. Ever. and 2) if you're not religious, that you have a mental disorder or some sort, you're not a "woman trapped in a mans body" or visa-versa.

[Flamecaller]

Many things here.

 

 

 

PCY can spam, but when someone else does, it's not allowed!?

 

 

 

Oh, and btw, they were speaking of something OTHER than the proper topic. There are topics for homosecuallity. Talk about it in them, and Azn, you being a mod (I think), I thought you would notice PCY spams more than me, same for you Bubsa, you know it too.

 

 

 

I spam one time here, and I get told to STFU?

 

PCY spams around 10 times a day and makes people happy? Fudge it!

 

 

 

Yep SPAM

 

 

 

Umm, you called "Spam!" on someone who made a valid post...Therefore, you're stupid, and were told that you are stupid. You're only making it worse by reopening the wound.

[Satenza]

And if it could be shown that some transexual people have the brain of the gender which they identify with then you're diagnosis that everyone who is a transexual has a "mental disorder" would be incorrect?

[RayOxide]

Umm, you called "Spam!" on someone who made a valid post...Therefore, you're stupid, and were told that you are stupid. You're only making it worse by reopening the wound.

 

 

 

Actually, I said '^Spam?' Note the question mark!? Oh, and, this is a topic about something that ISN'T Homosexuallity.

 

 

 

But that's not the point I'm getting to. It's the fact that PCY can post one liners, that may be humerous, yet it's still spam.

 

 

 

Btw, I'm not stupid. I may be stupid in comparison, as I'm only 13.

[Bubsa]

And you're the one who decides this, are you? Whether or not it's spam is your judgement and yours alone?

[darkforaster]

Yesterday, I had a fight with my dad. He just starts yelling at me and I calmly tell him why I feel the way I do and that I plan to get hormone replacement therapy when I'm of age. He starts telling me that I'm full of BS and that my friends are all a bunch of Bs because they are supporting me.

 

 

 

My mom was emotional, which made my father even more angrier with me because she's a woman and she was crying.

 

 

 

Put yourself in their place. It's not like they grew up in a society where transgenders were accepted (or even known). How hard is it for them?

 

 

 

It must be very hard for them. They're hurting me emotionally in the process though.

 

 

 

I'm afraid to say that's rather selfish serephurus.

 

 

 

they also must be very emotionally hurt. yet you can only blame them for this as it's putting you down. Thier distressed over you yet you are frustrated with them for being distressed.

 

 

 

They can't hide thier emotions, much like you. yet you blame them for that.

[mad4u689]

Yesterday, I had a fight with my dad. He just starts yelling at me and I calmly tell him why I feel the way I do and that I plan to get hormone replacement therapy when I'm of age. He starts telling me that I'm full of BS and that my friends are all a bunch of Bs because they are supporting me.

 

 

 

My mom was emotional, which made my father even more angrier with me because she's a woman and she was crying.

 

 

 

Put yourself in their place. It's not like they grew up in a society where transgenders were accepted (or even known). How hard is it for them?

 

 

 

It must be very hard for them. They're hurting me emotionally in the process though.

 

 

 

I'm afraid to say that's rather selfish serephurus.

 

 

 

they also must be very emotionally hurt. yet you can only blame them for this as it's putting you down. Thier distressed over you yet you are frustrated with them for being distressed.

 

 

 

They can't hide thier emotions, much like you. yet you blame them for that.

 

 

 

How is what she said selfish at all? Serephurus admits that it must be tough for her parents, but also admits that the way they're acting is hurting her, too. Wouldn't you be extremely hurt if your parents didn't accept you for who you are? Even though you may understand that it's tough for them, and feel for them even, it's going to hurt you a lot, too. She isn't just blaming them (though I assume Serephurus would be happier if they would be more open and accept her as a female), but acknowledging that it's a tough situation, but one that leaves her feeling pretty hurt. That is completely reasonable, and not selfish in the slightest.

 

 

 

As for Goddess, I think you should stop acting as if you're an absolute authority on everything. No offense. But I don't see how you can be as great and knowledgeable and experienced a counselor as you claim, when you act so hurtfully and NOT sensitively to other people's issues and problems.

 

 

 

Also, I very much think this is an important post; it's not just Serephurus talking about hir own problems, but also for people in general who aren't that aware of gender dysphoria to maybe learn something. :)

 

 

 

For example, did you know that there exists a strong movement to add "ze" and "hir" and "hirself" to the vernacular as gender neutral pronouns? They are gender-neutral equivalents of "he/she" and "her/him/his" and "herself/himself". This is extremely useful for talking about people who don't fit into the typical gender binary, and also just for general use when you're talking about a nonspecific individual :) I've used them quite effectively in papers, for example! :D

[tameelf]

On the topic of the Christian psychiatrist:

 

Goddess is right. If he is worth anything as a psychiatrist, he will have to listen to you.

 

anyone can listen any one can hear.advice will at times fall on deaf ears

 

 

 

reading between the lines this is either a wind up or the author has already made his/her mind up.

 

the race is already won it just depends as to shud he/she ride the hurdles or run through them. bear in mind you may confuse ur younger relitives not knowing wther to call you auntie arthur or uncal martha

 

 

 

goddess the church no matter what church thrives on percicution . ill bet mom and dad are still part of the clan?