Zen, Taoism, and Philosophy

[dwarfdude3]

I've discovered a lot of really amazing videos on youtube by the late Alan Watts. Check some of these out and tell me what you guys think:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And know that these are not trivial youtube links, I'm youtube linking in order to prompt discussion, like when people made those news threads, they posted the news articles.

[darkmage099]

My issue with Daoism:

 

 

 

They believe withdrawing from society altogether is the path to the "Dao". They say that civilizations are unnatural; thus, we must not participate in public life. That strikes me as foolish and extremely contradictory.

 

 

 

 

 

Just thought I'd throw that out there...you know.

[IGoddessI]

If you like Alan watts perhaps you may like some of these other names too 8-)

 

 

 

Deepak Chopra

 

Wayne Dyer

 

Ekhart Tolle

 

John Assaraf

 

Bob Proctor

 

 

 

I use Zen stories all the time to get people to realise valuable life lessons.

 

 

 

Personally speaking, I'm quite a huge fan of reading and learning about eastern religions, philosophy and Zen stories.

 

 

 

If you're interested in some mighty good book titles, or audio books you can download give us a PM and I can help you out.

 

 

 

Here are some of my favourites:

 

 

 

Four monks decided to meditate silently without speaking for two weeks. By nightfall on the first day, the candle began to flicker and then went out. The first monk said, "Oh, no! The candle is out." The second monk said, "Aren't we not suppose to talk?" The third monk said, "Why must you two break the silence?" The fourth monk laughed and said, "Ha! I'm the only one who didn't speak.

 

 

 

Meditation is fantastic for bringing unconscious awareness to your subconscious self. E.g. Each monk broke the silence for a different reason, each of which is a common stumbling block to meditation. The first monk became distracted by one element of the world (the candle) and so lost sight of the rest. The second monk was more worried about rules than the meditation itself. The third monk let his anger at the first two rule him. And the final monk was lost in his ego.

 

 

 

On the first day of meditating - They all learnt something about their underlying personalities that they needed to work on to improve.

 

 

 

A university professor went to visit a famous Zen master. While the master quietly served tea, the professor talked about Zen. The master poured the visitor's cup to the brim, and then kept pouring. The professor watched the overflowing cup until he could no longer restrain himself.

 

 

 

It's overfull! No more will go in!" the professor blurted. "You are like this cup," the master replied, "How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup."

 

 

 

A young but earnest Zen student approached his teacher, and asked the Zen Master:

 

 

 

"If I work very hard and diligent how long will it take for me to find Zen."

 

 

 

The Master thought about this, then replied, "Ten years."

 

 

 

The student then said, "But what if I work very, very hard and really apply myself to learn fast -- How long then ?"

 

 

 

Replied the Master, "Well, twenty years."

 

 

 

"But, if I really, really work at it. How long then ?" asked the student.

 

 

 

"Thirty years," replied the Master.

 

 

 

"But, I do not understand," said the disappointed student. "At each time that I say I will work harder, you say it will take me longer. Why do you say that ?"

 

 

 

Replied the Master," When you have one eye on the goal, you only have one eye on the path."

 

 

 

A rich man asked a Zen master to write something down that could encourage the prosperity of his family for years to come. It would be something that the family could cherish for generations. On a large piece of paper, the master wrote, "Father dies, son dies, grandson dies."

 

 

 

The rich man became angry when he saw the master's work. "I asked you to write something down that could bring happiness and prosperity to my family. Why do you give me something depressing like this?"

 

 

 

"If your son should die before you," the master answered, "this would bring unbearable grief to your family. If your grandson should die before your son, this also would bring great sorrow. If your family, generation after generation, disappears in the order I have described, it will be the natural course of life. This is true happiness and prosperity."

[dwarfdude3]

Ha, nice stories.

 

 

 

I read this book called the Tao of Pooh. (as in Winnie the Pooh), it was actually quite good, and a very easy read. There was a cool story in it though called The Stonecutter. Its kinda long, but I think its worth it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There was once a stone cutter who was dissatisfied with himself and with his position in life.

 

 

 

One day he passed a wealthy merchant's house. Through the open gateway, he saw many fine possessions and important visitors. "How powerful that merchant must be!" thought the stone cutter. He became very envious and wished that he could be like the merchant.

 

 

 

To his great surprise, he suddenly became the merchant, enjoying more luxuries and power than he had ever imagined, but envied and detested by those less wealthy than himself. Soon a high official passed by, carried in a sedan chair, accompanied by attendants and escorted by soldiers beating gongs. Everyone, no matter how wealthy, had to bow low before the procession. "How powerful that official is!" he thought. "I wish that I could be a high official!"

 

 

 

Then he became the high official, carried everywhere in his embroidered sedan chair, feared and hated by the people all around. It was a hot summer day, so the official felt very uncomfortable in the sticky sedan chair. He looked up at the sun. It shone proudly in the sky, unaffected by his presence. "How powerful the sun is!" he thought. "I wish that I could be the sun!"

 

 

 

Then he became the sun, shining fiercely down on everyone, scorching the fields, cursed by the farmers and laborers. But a huge black cloud moved between him and the earth, so that his light could no longer shine on everything below. "How powerful that storm cloud is!" he thought. "I wish that I could be a cloud!"

 

 

 

Then he became the cloud, flooding the fields and villages, shouted at by everyone. But soon he found that he was being pushed away by some great force, and realized that it was the wind. "How powerful it is!" he thought. "I wish that I could be the wind!"

 

 

 

Then he became the wind, blowing tiles off the roofs of houses, uprooting trees, feared and hated by all below him. But after a while, he ran up against something that would not move, no matter how forcefully he blew against it - a huge, towering rock. "How powerful that rock is!" he thought. "I wish that I could be a rock!"

 

 

 

Then he became the rock, more powerful than anything else on earth. But as he stood there, he heard the sound of a hammer pounding a chisel into the hard surface, and felt himself being changed. "What could be more powerful than I, the rock?" he thought.

 

 

 

He looked down and saw far below him the figure of a stone cutter.

 

 

 

[____]

I clicked to say 'betware Goddess' but she had already posted #-o

 

Amusingly, it was shorter than I feared, so no matter :anxious:

[IGoddessI]

Hey now...... :P

[warri0r45]

My issue with Daoism:

 

 

 

They believe withdrawing from society altogether is the path to the "Dao". They say that civilizations are unnatural; thus, we must not participate in public life. That strikes me as foolish and extremely contradictory.

 

 

 

 

 

Just thought I'd throw that out there...you know.

 

 

 

How is this foolish or contradictory?

[xsephiroth]

if you're into this sort of stuff, I suggest looking up Terence McKenna. He has a lot of interesting things to say.

[darkmage099]

My issue with Daoism:

 

 

 

They believe withdrawing from society altogether is the path to the "Dao". They say that civilizations are unnatural; thus, we must not participate in public life. That strikes me as foolish and extremely contradictory.

 

 

 

Just thought I'd throw that out there...you know.

 

 

 

How is this foolish or contradictory?

 

 

 

Because if we were not supposed to build great civilizations, reproduce, and shape the world today, we would not have. It is arguable that the "nature" for humans is to build societies and not become hermits. If that was natural, we would be doing it!

 

 

 

 

 

By preaching it to the public, they are being part of public life.

 

 

 

 

 

However, I really like their stories.

 

 

 

A man walking across a field encountered a tiger. He fled, the tiger chasing after him. Coming to a cliff, he caught hold of a wild vine and swung himself over the edge. The tiger sniffed at him from above. Terrified, the man looked down to where, far below, another tiger had come, waiting to eat him. Two mice, one white, one black, little by little began to gnaw away at the vine. The man saw a luscious strawberry near him. Grasping the vine with one hand, he plucked the strawberry with the other. How sweet it tasted!

 

 

 

 

 

Matajuro Yagyu was the son of a famous swordsman. His father, believing that his son's work was too mediocre to anticipate mastership, disowned him.

 

 

 

So Matajuro went to Mount Futara and there found the famous swordsman Banzo. But Banzo confirmed the father's judgment. "You wish to learn swordsmanship under my guidance?" asked Banzo. "You cannot fulfill the requirements."

 

 

 

"But if I work hard, how many years will it take me to become a master?" persisted the youth.

 

 

 

"The rest of your life," replied Banzo.

 

 

 

"I cannot wait that long," explained Matajuro. "I am willing to pass through any hardship if only you will teach me. If I become your devoted servant, how long might it be?"

 

 

 

"Oh, maybe ten years," Banzo relented.

 

 

 

"My father is getting old, and soon I must take care of him," continued Matajuro. "If I work far more intensively, how long would it take me?"

 

 

 

"Oh, maybe thirty years," said Banzo.

 

 

 

"Why is that?" asked Matajuro. "First you say ten and now thirty years. I will undergo any hardship to master this art in the shortest time!"

 

 

 

"Well," said Banzo, "in that case you will have to remain with me for seventy years. A man in such a hurry as you are to get results seldom learns quickly."

 

 

 

"Very well," declared the youth, understanding at last that he was being rebuked for impatience, "I agree."

 

 

 

Matajuro was told never to speak of fencing and never to touch a sword. He cooked for his master, washed the dishes, made his bed, cleaned the yard, cared for the garden, all without a word of swordsmanship.

 

 

 

Three years passed. Still Matajuro labored on. Thinking of his future, he was sad. He had not even begun to learn the art to which he had devoted his life.

 

 

 

But one day Banzo crept up behind him and gave him a terrific blow with a wooden sword.

 

 

 

The following day, when Matajuro was cooking rice, Banzo again sprang upon him unexpectedly.

 

 

 

After that, day and night, Matajuro had to defend himself from unexpected thrusts. Not a moment passed in any day that he did not have to think of the taste of Banzo's sword.

 

 

 

He learned so rapidly he brought smiles to the face of his master. Matajuro became the greatest swordsman in the land.

 

 

 

 

This one is quite similar to the one Goddess posted, but this one is a little more specific. We went over these in our lit. class.

[warri0r45]

My issue with Daoism:

 

 

 

They believe withdrawing from society altogether is the path to the "Dao". They say that civilizations are unnatural; thus, we must not participate in public life. That strikes me as foolish and extremely contradictory.

 

 

 

Just thought I'd throw that out there...you know.

 

 

 

How is this foolish or contradictory?

 

 

 

Because if we were not supposed to build great civilizations, reproduce, and shape the world today, we would not have. It is arguable that the "nature" for humans is to build societies and not become hermits. If that was natural, we would be doing it!

 

 

 

 

 

By preaching it to the public, they are being part of public life.

 

 

 

 

Makes sense. By the way, where did you read that Taoism emphasises that they believe civilizations are unnatural and that we should restrain from public life? I wouldn't mind reading up on it more.

 

 

 

Are you sure that they don't mean it's unnatural in that it's not typical of non-human nature (i.e. non-human nature as in trees, waterfalls, grassy fields, etc. I don't think they refer to human civilization as supernatural), which they see as the place in which your harmony must rest? Are you sure the message is not simply refrain from modern human civilization and focus on the natural world? If that's the case, I don't see what the problem is with it. I think it's a pretty decent message that a lot of people neglect to take heed of and when they do, they feel better for doing it.

[IGoddessI]

Since quite a few people have PM'd me here are some book titles that I've found pretty interesting:

 

 

 

Books by Deepak chopra:

 

 

 

"The seven spiritual laws of success"

 

"Buddha: A Story of Enlightenment"

 

"Vital Energy"

 

"Perfect Health"

 

"Book Of Secrets - Unlocking the Hidden Dimensions of Your Life"

 

"The Ten Commitments"

 

"Seven Spiritual Laws Of Yoga"

 

"Life After Death: The Burden of Proof"

 

"Return To Wholeness - A Holistic Guide to Cancer"

 

"Spontaneous Fulfillment - Exploring Meaninful Coincidences"

 

"Deepak Chopra's Kama Sutra - Includes the 7 Spiritual Laws of Love"

 

"Creating Affluence - Explore the Full Meaning of Wealth Consciousness"

 

 

 

- By the way if you want any tips on Golf - Deepak is your man as well.

 

 

 

Books by Alan Watts:

 

 

 

"The spirit of Zen"

 

"The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are"

 

"Summer of Love: The Spirituality and Consciousness of the 1960's"

 

"Do You Do It, or Does It Do You?: how to let the universe meditate you"

 

"Out of Your Mind"

 

"Still The Mind: An Introduction To Meditation"

 

"The Tao of Philosophy: The Edited Transcripts"

 

"Philosophies of Asia: The Edited Transcripts"

 

"Seeds of Genius: The Early Writings of Alan Watts"

 

"time"

 

"death"

 

"Myth and Religion"

 

"Zen Clues"

 

"This Is It, and Other Essays on Zen and Spiritual Experience"

 

"Eastern Wisdom: What Is Zen?, What Is Tao? an Introduction to Meditation"

 

"Spiritual Practices of India"

 

"Taoism: Way Beyond Seeking"

 

"Zen and the Art of the Controlled Accident"

 

"What Is Tao"

 

"Nature, Man and Woman"

 

"Om, Creative Meditations"

 

"Nothingness"

 

"The God"

 

"Buddhism: The Religion of No-Religion"

 

"The Way of Liberation: Essays and Lectures on the Transformation of the Self"

 

"Ego"

 

"Become What You Are"

 

 

 

- By the way if you're a keen on sailing or yatching - Alan is your man as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----------

 

 

 

I'm just making another list now for the other authors (favourite subjects haha) These books are flippin fantastic for anyone who is in to motivational speaking.

[IGoddessI]

Books by Dr. Wayne Dyer (My absolute number 1 hero in the world) I'm getting EXCITED just writing about it! wooo hooo! \ :XD:

 

 

 

Reading these books is what got me out of teenage depression and negative thinking - So if you have anything similar copy and paste it, save it and go book hunting!

 

 

 

My pick of the bunch:

 

"How to Get What You Really, Really, Really, Really Want"

 

How to Be a No-Limit Person

 

 

 

"Manifest Your Destiny: The Nine Spiritual Principles for Getting everything You Want"

 

"The Power of Intention"

 

"You'll See It When You Believe It"

 

"What Do You Really Want for Your Children?"

 

"10 Secrets For Success And Inner Peace"

 

"Real Magic: Creating Miracles in Everyday Life"

 

"Your Sacred Self: Making the Decision to Be Free"

 

"The Power of Intention: Learning to Co-Create Your World Your Way"

 

"101 Power Thoughts/101 Ways to Transform Your Life/Cassette"

 

"Awakening from Grief"

 

"Your Erroneous Zones"

 

"Living Without Limits"

 

"Wisdom of the Ages: 60 Days to Enlightenment"

 

"Your Life Begins Now"

 

"The Sky's the Limit"

 

"Secrets of the Universe"

 

"The Awakened Life"

 

"There's a Spiritual Solution to Every Problem"

 

"Choosing Your Own Greatness"

 

"Counseling Techniques That Work"

 

"Awakening: A Journal of Personal Transformation"

 

"Secrets Of Your Own Healing Power"

 

"A Promise Is a Promise: An Almost Unbelievable Story a Mother's Unconditional Love and What It Can Teach Us"

 

"Staying On The Path"

 

"Pulling Your Own Strings"

 

"Choose to Live and Love: Develop the Psychology of Positive Choices"

 

 

 

"Living Beyond Miracles" - This one is by Deepak Chopra AND Wayne Dyer :ohnoes: :pray:

 

 

 

---------------

 

 

 

I also very highly recommend the following:

 

 

 

"Third Eye" - By Lobsang Rampa - This book really challenged my bias way of thinking as a white westerner and showed me what life is like from the eyes of the East to have a balanced perception.

 

 

 

"The Alchemist" - Basically the personal power to transform something so common in to something special.

[kelem_ryu]

My issue with Daoism:

 

 

 

They believe withdrawing from society altogether is the path to the "Dao". They say that civilizations are unnatural; thus, we must not participate in public life. That strikes me as foolish and extremely contradictory.

 

 

 

Just thought I'd throw that out there...you know.

 

 

 

How is this foolish or contradictory?

 

 

 

Because if we were not supposed to build great civilizations, reproduce, and shape the world today, we would not have. It is arguable that the "nature" for humans is to build societies and not become hermits. If that was natural, we would be doing it!

 

 

 

 

 

By preaching it to the public, they are being part of public life.

 

 

 

 

Makes sense. By the way, where did you read that Taoism emphasises that they believe civilizations are unnatural and that we should restrain from public life? I wouldn't mind reading up on it more.

 

 

 

Are you sure that they don't mean it's unnatural in that it's not typical of non-human nature (i.e. non-human nature as in trees, waterfalls, grassy fields, etc. I don't think they refer to human civilization as supernatural), which they see as the place in which your harmony must rest? Are you sure the message is not simply refrain from modern human civilization and focus on the natural world? If that's the case, I don't see what the problem is with it. I think it's a pretty decent message that a lot of people neglect to take heed of and when they do, they feel better for doing it.

 

 

 

 

 

The dao te king pointed out that huge civilisations are undesireable. You should rather keep to your own. Or something like that. I don't think it promotes solitude though and i also don't think it said that civilizaion is unnatural.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Topic: Eastern spirituality is nice and dandy, but i find modern pop culture is more my thing. Star wars and Terry Pratchets Discworld and the like are great examples. Wisdom can be picked up literally everywhere: from a tree, from a couple passing by, muttering some words, from some advertisement, from a dead mouse lying on the street, architecture, art, from a trip, from everywhere.

 

 

 

You probably only need to accumulate wisdom for a good life, but knowledge is power. I guess wisdom will get you what you need, but power will get you what you want.

 

 

 

Science is a way to turn certain knowledge into power. Like for transforming the power of a river into electricity, or to develop seeds with an awsome yield. The magic of science...

 

 

 

Yet their is knowledge that you can apply to be successful, to get as many women as you want and such things. And then their are such ideas as the philosophers stone and the holy grail.

 

 

 

Anything is possible, if you know how. Anything.

 

 

 

There is no limit whatsoever. Only those in your head.

 

 

 

..and if you wonder why you got those limitations in your head in the first place, imagine infinity. The limitations are there, so you stay sane. Picture what you'd do and who or what you'd be right now, if anything imaginable was possible. The possibilitys are mind boggling imo.

[assassin_696]

Ironically, I find eastern philosophy and practices too artificial for me. It seems too abstract and too detached from what we are for me.