Freedom

[raven_gaurd0]

Nobody ever said that it's a 100% choice. But it's not genetic.

 

 

 

Once again, the National Association of Research and Therapy for Homosexuality (NARTH) states that there is no genetic evidence that people are simply gay. As Sigmund Freud put it, it's a subconscious response to your environment or a conscious psychological choice.

 

 

 

Either way, it's not genetic, so I would suggest either pulling evidence out of your head or your head out of your [wagon].

 

 

 

Again, as Warrior said, I think you should stop misrepresenting it. Yes, it is not fully genetic [or genetic at all, as proven thus far], but that doesn't mean it's a fully conscious choice, which I'm sure you realize.

 

That said, the only problem I have with your statement is that you seem to misrepresent it, especially by using the word 'choice', which I [and many other people for obvious reasons] are obviously aware that the full factor is most definitely not a completely conscious choice. Right now, the field consensus is mostly that a myriad of factors determines the outcome, which, by reading your debate I'm sure you already know. However, by phrasing things as such, you seem to make it out to be something it's not, and I don't think that's too helpful to anyone.

 

 

 

Am I misrepresenting it? Maybe I am, but that's beside the point. Being gay is not genetic; but it's not necessarily a choice. As Sigmund Freud put it, it's a subconscious response to your environment OR a fully conscious psychological choice. Rarely, RARELY is it the second thing. Anyway, that's not really the point, it's a worthless tangent, especially in this Freedom thread :lol: .

 

 

 

Right now I'm just backing up Eelspremiers vs. Ilcoolguy, in the sense that Ilcoolguy threw the first punch, so to speak. This has nothing to do as gay.

 

 

 

And ilcoolguy:

 

 

 

A: No, you're not right. You're not wrong. Right now, it's just an opinion.

 

B: Kay, let's stop arguing about this. We both acknowledge it, happy, let's move on.

 

C: Still no evidence. :-s And the evidence I have provided says that your wrong. Even if you are gay, which you might very well be, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE and is VERY unlikely that you have any idea what your brain at a subconscious level is doing.

[llcoolguy972]

Nobody ever said that it's a 100% choice. But it's not genetic.

 

 

 

Once again, the National Association of Research and Therapy for Homosexuality (NARTH) states that there is no genetic evidence that people are simply gay. As Sigmund Freud put it, it's a subconscious response to your environment or a conscious psychological choice.

 

 

 

Either way, it's not genetic, so I would suggest either pulling evidence out of your head or your head out of your [wagon].

 

 

 

Again, as Warrior said, I think you should stop misrepresenting it. Yes, it is not fully genetic [or genetic at all, as proven thus far], but that doesn't mean it's a fully conscious choice, which I'm sure you realize.

 

That said, the only problem I have with your statement is that you seem to misrepresent it, especially by using the word 'choice', which I [and many other people for obvious reasons] are obviously aware that the full factor is most definitely not a completely conscious choice. Right now, the field consensus is mostly that a myriad of factors determines the outcome, which, by reading your debate I'm sure you already know. However, by phrasing things as such, you seem to make it out to be something it's not, and I don't think that's too helpful to anyone.

 

 

 

Am I misrepresenting it? Maybe I am, but that's beside the point. Being gay is not genetic; but it's not necessarily a choice. As Sigmund Freud put it, it's a subconscious response to your environment OR a fully conscious psychological choice. Rarely, RARELY is it the second thing. Anyway, that's not really the point, it's a worthless tangent, especially in this Freedom thread :lol: .

 

 

 

Right now I'm just backing up Eelspremiers vs. Ilcoolguy, in the sense that Ilcoolguy threw the first punch, so to speak. This has nothing to do as gay.

 

 

 

And ilcoolguy:

 

 

 

A: No, you're not right. You're not wrong. Right now, it's just an opinion.

 

B: Kay, let's stop arguing about this. We both acknowledge it, happy, let's move on.

 

C: Still no evidence. :-s And the evidence I have provided says that your wrong. Even if you are gay, which you might very well be, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE and is VERY unlikely that you have any idea what your brain at a subconscious level is doing.

 

 

 

... Agree to disagree? :| TBH, I really don't wanna spend days going back and forth when we both know that neither one of is gonna change their minds. lol Also, sorry for all the posts that were really off topic because of this. :P

[superson]

What I'm about to post is my opinion. I won't say that you can't flame me for it, and if you would like to debate it, I'm ok with that, but I might not check the thread often enough =p.

 

 

 

Moving on to the post.

 

 

 

It is my opinion that most people do not 'choose' to be gay, straight, or bi. For some people, they just feel that the normal way (usually straight) is not right for them. While some people switch later in life, many have been harboring these feelings for a long time, or have just now discovered them. For example, I heard about a guy who was from a devout Christian family (forgot which sect), and he knew he was gay, but if his family found out, they would have exiled him and 'removed' him from the family. He eventually told them, and they exiled him. He tried to 'cure' himself of being gay in so many ways, including shock therapy (think that's the name). He was told to go buy a gay porno magazine, and bring it to the doctor who was treating him. He was then attached to a chair and bound, and whenever a new picture of homosexual acts came up, sharp pain was administered. This was to try to make his body associated homosexual things with pain. His doctor had told him it must be kept secret, but eventually he did tell people. The doctor or the college he worked for never admitted it. The guy was still a homosexual. He didn't want to be one, and it was certainly not something anybody in his position would 'choose' (exiled from the family that loves you? I know I wouldn't want to be) to be gay, so I feel that it must have just been something inside him.

 

 

 

Whether it is actually something in your brain, or just something undetectable that is there, I feel there is something, somewhere, in your body, your mind, or your subconscious that guides your sexual orientation.

 

 

 

-Alansson

[Nom]

<-------- The homosexuality thread is that way.

[TheLastTemplar]

 

 

 

 

 

Free to be gay, free to gay bash. You want to be gay? That's cool I want to make fun

 

of you being gay. You're free to have sex with men, I'm free to make fun of you for it,

 

don't like it ignore it sorry. :(

 

 

 

 

Why would you want to make fun of someone for being gay? Unless your a total douche bag with nothing better to do..

 

 

 

It's almost as bad as making fun out of people who are born blind, deaf e.t.c. People are born gay and I can't wait till science finally confirms this as stone fact.

 

 

 

Also men are not the only gay people, there are women too or will you not make 'fun' of them for having sex with women? Double standards...?

 

 

 

And why do gay people have to just take abuse from you and 'ignore' it, they have feeling too and constant verbal abuse can get people down and even drive them to commit suicide.

 

That is so stupid. How are you born with homosexuality? God created Adam and Eve..you think by doing this he was trying to hint at something? You choose to be gay..

[mrpez]

I was under the impression that the basic freedoms came with the caveat that exercising your liberties should not negatively impact someone else's ability to do the same.

 

 

 

Pretty much what I wanted to say, but I'll give a few examples.

 

 

 

Freedom of Speech in America: You're free to protest and voice your opinion, but there is a limit. Racism, rudeness, and threats can get you into serious trouble.

 

 

 

Right to bear arms: You can own a gun (if you have license), but using it to commit murder is not a right.

[Guest]

[hide]

It's almost as bad as making fun out of people who are born blind, deaf e.t.c. People are born gay and I can't wait till science finally confirms this as stone fact.

 

 

 

Glad to see your believing things before they're stone fact - as you put it. And we ask how people could think the world was flat 600 years ago. StrOwez's your answer.

So you're honestly telling me that you could "turn" gay right now? No? Then it's not a choice.

 

 

 

I accept your opinion, you can accept mine. I don't discriminate openly against homosexuals, them sticking their bodily organ into other same sexed humans is their own business - I don't care what they do in private. Though I am allowed to have an opinion.

 

 

 

 

Wow. Rather than actually backing up your opinion, you started personally attacking me. Questioning my sexuality, making fun of my name, then telling me to get therapy. Because no one has EVER thought of that before. :roll:

 

 

 

And even if it was a choice, I'd still choose to be gay, without second thought. Coming out has really helped me distinguish my actual friends.

 

[Flames were edited out -BlueLancer]

 

 

 

Talk for yourself hypocrite. Its an opinion I have no reason to back it up, neither do I care enough about homosexuality to want to try and convince a gay guy that he's made a choice. And I'm not surprised in the slightest, I hadn't even known that you were gay and just by judging from your gay pride hate-felt earlier post (which bluelancer had to sensor) I could tell straight away that you were gay.

 

 

 

Go away seriously, sort out your own problems in life instead of attacking me when I hadn't even attacked you in the first place - especially considering it was my own personal opinion.

 

 

 

You never attacked me?... How about you take a step down off of that pedestal and think about what your original post was. And you have no reason to back your opinion up? So you basically came here just to say that gays made a choice, and that anything else is wrong, even if there's proof. How about you crawl back under that rock. -.-

[/hide]

 

 

 

Too many quotations!

 

 

 

How 'bout YOU go check out this and get yourself educated so you don't sound like an arrogant moron (which you do right now. Trust me, I'd know :anxious: ) You can't be stating things like that without proof, especially since:

 

 

 

A: You're neither right nor wrong, so you can't state either.

 

B: This is the wrong thread for this

 

C: Without any proof over such a controversial issue, I can disregard your opinion. So can eeeverybody else.

 

 

 

EDIT: P.S. Dude, I never saw any form of attack in anybody's argument. Hell, he was even putting you on even ground by saying it's your opinion, and I have my own, too. You threw the first punch, so don't whine (unless he edited it out or something, or a mod did, but I doubt it )

 

 

 

A: I know I'm right. (go to C before you explode on me for being arrogant)

 

B: I know it is, but I pointed out that he was wrong, and he personally attacked me (which he later edited out)

 

C: Being gay is NOT a choice, not anymore than being straight is. I don't get how people don't understand this. You don't get to choose your sexuality! Any straight person can't turn gay at a moments notice, and a gay person won't turn straight either. (Bluelancer said what I was trying to say, and a lot better than I could've said it. : )

 

 

 

Excuse Me!? I never edited my post - if it was it was for grammar. I speak my opinion I don't have to edit my posts. The posts which were edited was YOURS by Bluelancer which was the 'first punch thrown' which got me angry. Don't start lieing just because you've been shown to be an arrogant [puncture], who takes out his life problems concerning your sexuality on other people who don't agree with you. Take your problems somewhere else, I don't care to fight with someone like you anymore. I'm only replying here, because you told a lie to back up your point. Pathetic really. :roll:

 

 

 

Plus its my own personal opinion, I can say what I like, without people like you trying to tell me otherwise. Especially when its not hate-felt but merely a judgment on my behalf of another person's decisions. I don't care whether at the age of 2 you had feelings for another guy, or whether you choose to swing that way when you were 13 - I seriously don't care what you personally do behind closed doors. It's your choice you have to deal with, not mine!

 

 

 

BUT DON'T go attacking me telling me to shut the ["bleep"] up (that was the original comment Bluelancer had to edit - which I got annoyed about - yes you threw the 'first punch' as Raven has backed me up in). I'm entitled to my opinion, especially since it wasn't even directed at you. I hadn't even learnt that you were a homo until you later came in and attacked me. I'm not in the wrong here you are, I'm allowed to speak my personal opinions and defend myself - especially after you threw the 'first punch'. In fact my first statment which you jumped on (directed at Str0wez - yes - not you!), was barely even about the topic at hand. You just came in to pick a fight. Incredibly pathetic.

 

 

 

I'm pathetic? I AM? You come in here basically saying that being gay is a 100% choice, and when I told tell you you're wrong, you insult me, (which you did edit out, feed someone else that bs) and then blatantly lie about it. I admit, maybe I shouldn't have told you to "shut the [bleep] up," but that was definitely not the 'first punch.' If anything, it was a poke. What you EDITED OUT was the first punch. And in this post you attacked me multiple times. Way to go Mr. Hypocrite.

 

 

 

Ok then. Tell me then, what I edited out then? Exactly you've got no idea, you just make S### up because you've been shown to be an absolute pathetic idiot. And you rightfully deserve that criticism. But by all means - prove me wrong - tell me what I exactly edited out instead of continually accusing me of something I didn't do. At least I was able to point out the exact words Bluelancer edited out of your post. But you can't - and therefore I call you pathetic for saying that I edited my posts when I didn't. If you think about it - considering my first post wasn't directed at you, I would of had no reason to edit my post - but as shown you came out of nowhere and directly attacked me after my first post. Oh and also why don't you also point out while your at it where I said that being homosexual was a "100% choice." Either learn to read, or shut up and go away and stop blatantly lieing to prove a point which you're losing miserably at.

 

 

 

And even if you want to 'water' your comments down by saying it was a 'poke' (which it wasn't btw) I am quite alright to defend myself and 'poke' you back.

 

 

 

Bring some evidence forward next time you reply - or shut up and go back to General. OT hates people like you around.

[raven_gaurd0]

I was under the impression that the basic freedoms came with the caveat that exercising your liberties should not negatively impact someone else's ability to do the same.

 

 

 

Pretty much what I wanted to say, but I'll give a few examples.

 

 

 

Freedom of Speech in America: You're free to protest and voice your opinion, but there is a limit. Racism, rudeness, and threats can get you into serious trouble.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Threats, yes, but rudeness and racism no.

 

 

 

Believe it or not, everybody in the real world isn't 'nice' and it's illegal to call somebody a mean something. World is dog eat dog, and it will always be that way.