My ISP (Virgin Media in the UK) - Switch?

[jcfc]

A few questions:

 

 

 

a) I'm supposed to be getting 2mb broadband - that doesn't mean 250kbps download, right?

 

B) So I was downloading a game (1.5gig) and after about 400mb I found my internet connection download speed was halved. Phoned 'em up, they say "As part of their acceptable usage policy, your internet will be restricted if you download too much in peak times" They later elaborated to say 400mb-ish between 4pm-9pm. It's then restricted until midnight. Is this normal throughout other UK ISPs?

 

c) The biggie: Switch or no switch?

 

c)a) If I should switch, why? And who to?

 

c)B) If I shouldn't switch, why not? Should I change to one of their quicker plans?

[urbestfreind]

A few questions:

 

 

 

a) I'm supposed to be getting 2mb broadband - that doesn't mean 250kbps download, right?

 

B) So I was downloading a game (1.5gig) and after about 400mb I found my internet connection download speed was halved. Phoned 'em up, they say "As part of their acceptable usage policy, your internet will be restricted if you download too much in peak times" They later elaborated to say 400mb-ish between 4pm-9pm. It's then restricted until midnight. Is this normal throughout other UK ISPs?

 

c) The biggie: Switch or no switch?

 

c)a) If I should switch, why? And who to?

 

c)B) If I shouldn't switch, why not? Should I change to one of their quicker plans?

 

 

 

Virgin Media has been getting a lot of flack for their policies. If you use bittorrent or something like that, they will either cut your speed in half or block you entirely. They also do this for people who use a lot of bandwidth and download a lot of files.

 

 

 

You're lucky they haven't completely cut you off from the internet, or sent out one of their "letters" explaining that you have 1-2 more chances and then you can't use them as an ISP.

 

 

 

I say that you should switch to a new ISP that doesn't block downloads. This thread explains the matter a bit more, and if you read some posts further down, will give you some ideas on other ISPs that you can switch to.

 

 

 

Really, Virgin Media is shooting themselves in the foot here. And switching to one of their faster plans won't help at all, they'll still cut you off.

[Jernlov]

A few questions:

 

 

 

a) I'm supposed to be getting 2mb broadband - that doesn't mean 250kbps download, right?

 

B) So I was downloading a game (1.5gig) and after about 400mb I found my internet connection download speed was halved. Phoned 'em up, they say "As part of their acceptable usage policy, your internet will be restricted if you download too much in peak times" They later elaborated to say 400mb-ish between 4pm-9pm. It's then restricted until midnight. Is this normal throughout other UK ISPs?

 

c) The biggie: Switch or no switch?

 

c)a) If I should switch, why? And who to?

 

c)B) If I shouldn't switch, why not? Should I change to one of their quicker plans?

 

 

 

a) No, it doesn't. A 2mb cable connection should be between 200/300kB/s, not 200/300kb/s.

 

B) All of the major ones (Virgin, BT, Tiscali, TalkTalk, Eclipse, o2, Orange) do this so they can advertise higher bandwidth packages for less money.

 

c) Yes, because Virgin is dire.

 

c) i. If you have the money, and if you can get them in your area, UKFSN or Be.

 

c) ii. They'll continue to do the same regardless of how much you pay them.

[jcfc]

A few questions:

 

 

 

a) I'm supposed to be getting 2mb broadband - that doesn't mean 250kbps download, right?

 

B) So I was downloading a game (1.5gig) and after about 400mb I found my internet connection download speed was halved. Phoned 'em up, they say "As part of their acceptable usage policy, your internet will be restricted if you download too much in peak times" They later elaborated to say 400mb-ish between 4pm-9pm. It's then restricted until midnight. Is this normal throughout other UK ISPs?

 

c) The biggie: Switch or no switch?

 

c)a) If I should switch, why? And who to?

 

c)B) If I shouldn't switch, why not? Should I change to one of their quicker plans?

 

 

 

Virgin Media has been getting a lot of flack for their policies. If you use bittorrent or something like that, they will either cut your speed in half or block you entirely. They also do this for people who use a lot of bandwidth and download a lot of files.

 

 

 

You're lucky they haven't completely cut you off from the internet, or sent out one of their "letters" explaining that you have 1-2 more chances and then you can't use them as an ISP.

 

 

 

I say that you should switch to a new ISP that doesn't block downloads. This thread explains the matter a bit more, and if you read some posts further down, will give you some ideas on other ISPs that you can switch to.

 

 

 

Really, Virgin Media is shooting themselves in the foot here. And switching to one of their faster plans won't help at all, they'll still cut you off.

 

 

 

I wasn't using BitTorrent, and it was completely a completely legal download.

[Vidi]

A few questions:

 

 

 

a) I'm supposed to be getting 2mb broadband - that doesn't mean 250kbps download, right?

 

B) So I was downloading a game (1.5gig) and after about 400mb I found my internet connection download speed was halved. Phoned 'em up, they say "As part of their acceptable usage policy, your internet will be restricted if you download too much in peak times" They later elaborated to say 400mb-ish between 4pm-9pm. It's then restricted until midnight. Is this normal throughout other UK ISPs?

 

c) The biggie: Switch or no switch?

 

c)a) If I should switch, why? And who to?

 

c)B) If I shouldn't switch, why not? Should I change to one of their quicker plans?

 

 

 

a) No, it doesn't. A 2mb cable connection should be between 200/300kB/s, not 200/300kb/s.

 

B) All of the major ones (Virgin, BT, Tiscali, TalkTalk, Eclipse, o2, Orange) do this so they can advertise higher bandwidth packages for less money.

 

c) Yes, because Virgin is dire.

 

c) i. If you have the money, and if you can get them in your area, UKFSN or Be.

 

c) ii. They'll continue to do the same regardless of how much you pay them.

 

 

 

VM are the best ISP in the UK mate. All the other ISPs have a fair usage policy which is even worse, VM don't.

 

 

 

I'm on the 20mb line, and so is Peter (pure_mageuk) and simple fact is, in the best 2 years, we could together count the problems we've had with VM on 1 hand. I know people on Bethere, o2, orange, BT, tiscali and that dire internet that talktalk deliver, some have more problems than others, but orange and BT are the worst, tiscali isn't amazing either.

 

 

 

I'd reccomend you don't switch, but, if you do, move to o2 (o2 own bethere) as they seem to be the second best ISP at the moment.

 

Please.. Seriously, get your facts before dissing the ISP, yes, sure, their traffic shaping sucks, but they're the best ISP in the country at the moment in terms of stability, offering their advertised speeds (I never get below 19mbps, and I know no one on the same line that doesn't) and how quick they can get things sorted. You can, if you can afford it, jump to the 20mb line, which gives you 3gb of downloading space between peak times (4pm-12am, and your internet "nerf" will only last till midnight.. I don't belive any other company does that in the UK). And usually, with the 20mb line (2mbs-2.5mbs) you can download all the stuff you want in 2 hours, that 1.5gb file in 10 mins or so assuming the server you're downloading from isn't dire.

[MageUK]

a) I'm supposed to be getting 2mb broadband - that doesn't mean 250kbps download, right?

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone always seems to get confused about broadband speeds and I expect that's the way some of them want it.

 

 

 

Virgin Media's service is as follows :

 

 

 

"Size" is the name of the package as advertised by Virgin Media. Advertised Speed is the speed in the way that Virgin advertises it on their site, for example they say "2Mb" when really it should say "2MBit". The "Theoretical Max" will be in either KiloBYTES or MegaBYTES per second, NOT Kilo/MegaBITS. Bytes are what is used to display the downloads in stuff like Firefox and Internet Explorer which is why most people get confused with the speeds. Speedtest.net tests are measures in BITS not bytes, so if you're on the 2MBit package then you should be nearing 2000 (although Speedtests aren't really an accurate method of testing).

 

 

 

Size : Medium

 

Advertised Speed : "2Mb" = 2MBit

 

Theoretical Max : 250KB/s

 

 

 

Size : Large

 

Advertised Speed : "10Mb" = 10MBit

 

Theoretical Max : 1250KB/s = 1.25MB/s

 

 

 

Size : Extra Large

 

Advertised Speed : "20Mb" = 20MBit

 

Theoretical Max : 2500KB/s = 2.50MB/s

 

 

 

B) So I was downloading a game (1.5gig) and after about 400mb I found my internet connection download speed was halved. Phoned 'em up, they say "As part of their acceptable usage policy, your internet will be restricted if you download too much in peak times" They later elaborated to say 400mb-ish between 4pm-9pm. It's then restricted until midnight. Is this normal throughout other UK ISPs?

 

This is called Traffic Management and it's actually fully documented on Virgin Media's website.

 

 

 

c) The biggie: Switch or no switch?

 

 

 

Fully depends on your distance from an ADSL provider. Virgin Media is just NTL with a new name and NTL owns the entire cable network (Blueyonder, Telewest, etc.). If you move ISP you're moving off cable and to ADSL. If the distance for ADSL is too great, you may find speeds are even worse for you there, and there's a much higher chance that Virgin Media will increase their capacity before the nearest ADSL exchange to you chooses to do some upgrades.

 

 

 

c)a) If I should switch, why? And who to?

 

 

 

See above, ADSL providers are all pretty much the same. The fact of the matter is that it all depends on distance. If you pay an ADSL provider for 8 mbps, and the fastest you can achieve is 2 mbps, that will be the situation across all ADSL providers. Cable can travel far longer distances and the speed you receive is based on the capacity your nearest exchange has, not your distance from it, so it's fairly simple for Virgin Media to add extra capacity. For a provider to increase your ADSL speed they would have to relay copper cables and all sorts to get any kind of speed boost, which costs far more.

 

 

 

c)B) If I shouldn't switch, why not? Should I change to one of their quicker plans?

 

 

 

No. If you're receiving a slower speed than what you're paying for currently, your situation will be the same afterwards. Unfortunately even if you pay for a higher pack, all you are paying for is the network allowing you to use more bandwidth, if you can, you're not paying for priority over other Virgin Media users. This means that buying the top package will just cost you more money, and you'll see no increase in speed whatsoever. The best thing you can do is to get onto Virgin Media and try to get them to increase the capacity in your area, there's not really any other way.

 

 

 

 

 

--------------

 

 

 

 

 

In the top post, you said you're getting 250kbps, do you mean 250KB/s? If so that's what speed you should be getting with your package. If you mean 250KBit/s then that's the equivalent of 31.25KB/s which is only an eighth of what you should be getting.

 

 

 

If you are getting 250KB/s then your complaints are pretty much void since you're getting 100% of the service you should be, if this is the case and you want faster then you need to pay for a higher package.

[jcfc]

I learnt a lot from the last two posts. Thanks very much :)

 

 

 

I suppose that I was kinda annoyed about getting it halved. The policy that they have does seem pretty fair, and now I realise all the slagging off that they get is completely unjustified (namely I didn't understand the 250kBps dl speed). Thanks for all your help everyone, I've learnt a lot ^.^

 

 

 

Now to persuade my dad to get that £56/month offer we had in the post the other day for XL in everything virgin (£20/month off :o)

[Doomster]

The best place to go is http://www.cableforum.co.uk - this used to be "Nthellworld".

 

 

 

Traffic management thresholds are higher for higher pacakages, but on the 2Mb "M" tariff, the limit most likely to bite if you use it daytime or early evening, is the 500MB from 4PM to 9PM, so arrange to do any large downloads after 9PM if possible.

 

 

 

If you have more than one service with them, then try to get a loyalty/retentions discount, unlikely to be offered much if you just have one service, but if you have more than one and are paying more than the continuing rate of the current bundle deals, kick up hell.

 

 

 

If you have Sky (subscription, any) and have a BT phone line, then there is only one choice, the middle broadband at £5 per month on top, with "up to 8Mb" and a simple 40GB/month quota limit.

 

 

 

If you have a BT line and no Sky sub, and can live with the appalling service, Indian call centres, pushy sales and questionable reliabilty, then there's TalkTalk. Tiscali are another alternative, for Phone + Broadband, and a limited TV service, though their broadband is "unlimited" with a rather vague "fair usage" policy.

 

 

 

They are all sticks to beat Virginmedia with, as VM's prices are grossly uncompetetive unless you are on (at least) one of the new bundles, or preferably one of the ones they don't tell you about, such as the "grand triple" - Existing customers upgrading through customer care, £42/mo for BB:L (4Mb going to 10Mb now), Phone:M (no extras), TV:XL

 

 

 

** Sounds like you have been offered "Ultimate triple" - unless the Phone use is heavy enough to benefit from free anytime UK calls and/or you really need 20Mb instead of 10Mb (or the higher quota than BB:L, which is still better than BB:M), then try to get an offer of the Grand triple instead.

 

 

 

The days of super-insane discounts are gone, once upon a time, it was a matter of luck, and retentions deals seemed to be made up on the spot out of whatever offer codes were available, now you would expect to get a reasonable loyalty/match discount (ours is loyalty/match Sky), though the 2Mb broadband is a little short of matching Sky, as is the channel package (no Sky 1/2), but does have a phone line that is not included in the Sky price.

[MageUK]

Sky are like their arch-nemesis lol. If you're already with them just mention that you've seen some adverts for Sky and they seem much cheaper than Virgin and you'll have deals flying at you left, right and centre. ;)

[Jernlov]

 

For a 1.5meg line, at peak hours, it's not too bad. Hardly accurate, I'm getting 130kB/s download on files from sites with dedicated download servers.

 

 

 

Tiscali are another alternative, for Phone + Broadband, and a limited TV service, though their broadband is "unlimited" with a rather vague "fair usage" policy.

I can vouch for Tiscali being unlimited, I've not once had a letter from them or cut speed due to downloading too much. Even if they advertise a cap it certainly isn't enforced. Maybe I'm just a lucky punter.

 

 

 

The reliability is pretty good. It does its job, provides you with a cheap, useable service with few faults. I've only had to call them twice in three years, and that was no fault of theirs. BT have been messing with our line (which they don't even own) and that's been causing us to cut out a lot, but Tiscali got back to me today about it and all is well.

 

 

 

Even if I may complain about them, they're a pretty good provider. Cheap and it does the job just fine provided you don't P2P, which I don't anymore. All of the s___ they get is from the uninformed who haven't bothered to read up on their policies.

 

 

 

[hide=Tiscali's Fair Usage Policy]Tiscali UK Ltd - Fair usage policy

 

 

 

Tiscali's Fair Usage Policy is designed to make sure your broadband service is quick and reliable whenever you use it.

 

 

 

A very small number of customers use Peer to Peer or file sharing software, which constantly sends and receives video and other very large files, throughout the day. This type of activity uses a lot of bandwidth and can significantly reduce the speed at which other customers can access the internet during peak hours. Approximately 1% of customers use more than 30% of the available bandwidth during peak hours. We don't believe this is fair to the vast majority of our customers.

 

 

 

This fair usage policy automatically identifies the very small number of extremely heavy users and manages their bandwidth only during peak hours (6pm to 11pm Monday to Sunday), to protect the service for all our other customers. Outside peak hours, the use of the internet by these heavy users is unaffected.

 

We think this is the fairest approach. It protects the quality of service for the vast majority of our customers when they most use the service, while at the same time allowing the extremely heavy users to continue to send and receive without restriction outside of peak hours.

 

 

 

How do I know if I am likely to be affected by the Fair Usage Policy?

 

 

 

If you don't use Peer to Peer or file sharing software it is unlikely you will ever be affected by this Fair Usage Policy. If you do use Peer to Peer or file sharing software, all we ask is that you use this software considerately and send and receive large files outside of peak hours.

 

 

 

If you are affected, we will contact you by email to let you know that your usage at peak hours is excessive and is affecting other customers. The email will be sent to both your Tiscali email address and your contact email address (if different) and will contain simple advice on how to reduce your usage. If your usage is still excessive, we will contact you again by email to ask you to reduce your sending and receiving of large files during peak hours.

 

If your usage still remains excessive during peak hours, we will contact you a third time to advise you that we will be restricting your bandwidth during peak hours for the good of all other customers. This restriction will only apply during peak hours and there will be no restriction at other times of the day.

 

 

 

How can I manage my usage?

 

 

 

Simply ensure that any file sharing, sending and receiving of large file is done outside of peak hours.

 

 

 

What happens if you are affected by the Fair Usage Policy?

 

 

 

During peak hours, customers affected by the fair usage policy will share bandwidth with each other and will be separated from other customers. The amount of bandwidth available for affected customers to share, will be at least as much as for those customers unaffected by the policy.

 

 

 

The speed affected customers experience when downloading at peak hours will therefore depend on what these customers are doing. If they are all web-browsing and reading emails, they will experience normal broadband speed. If on the other hand they are using Peer to Peer or file sharing software they will experience slow broadband speed. Outside of peak hours, no restrictions will apply.[/hide]

 

 

 

How is that vague? It clearly explains that you can't P2P, download large files, upload large files between peak hours. It's totally fair.

 

 

 

Seriously, I would hate to be a Tiscali rep. The amount of complaints they get from people who download insane amounts and not expect to be limited is laughable. Yes, they limit P2P. I wouldn't be surprised if they blocked it in future since the amount of bandwidth it takes up is insane, especially for us folk who live out in the middle of nowhere with 1.5mbps lines. You can tell when people are P2Ping during peak hours as we suffer 300kbps speeds as a result.

 

 

 

@Vidi: I guess Virgin have changed a lot. I was really basing my experience with them on my ADSL days. It was the most horrible service I'd ever used, and its given me an overall negative view of the company as one that provides consisitently inconsistent service, nonexistant customer support and refusal to cancel contracts, although BT seem to have taken up that role in recent years. I'm sorry about it, I guess I should've checked into their cable before throwing a fit over it. If we ever get cable here (yeah, right) I'll be sure to switch from ADSL.

[DaN]

Switch,

 

 

 

Just dump Virgin they really are a [cabbage]ty company.

 

 

 

Users must NOT tolorate crap from their ISPs, if you do then your helping set the trend for future generations.

[MageUK]

Just dump Virgin they really are a [cabbage] company.

 

 

 

I think that depends on where you are in the country.

 

 

 

I get 20MBits all the time, I can always get the full speed of my line, and the services has been so great I've had to call them once in about 18 months. Turns out what I called them about was actually scheduled maintenance as well and the connection was back up within 2 hours. I used to be with BT before that on ADSL, have never even looked back.

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

I don't know much about ISP's in the UK as I don't live there, but if you can, try to find a good ISP that uses fibre optics. It is not distance limited like ADSL and it's faster than it and cable.

[Vidi]

Only Virgin Media use fibre optic atm, though I heard Sky are testing it seeing as they want a piece of VM's cake.

 

 

 

Though, Peter has a point, you can get really dire speeds of VM depending where you are, and their ADSL is a disgrace.

 

 

 

I've never had a problem with their internet service, ever. Their CS can be abit dodgy at times, though that's only when we rang up about the TV and phone. The TV isn't amazing either, rarely ever get the TV info and it's really laggy at times.