What's you're political Idoligy

[Saru Inc]

Magekillr, it is easy for a poor person to become middle class. It just takes good judgement, and good decision making. And yes, you're right, they do have to break the cycle of poverty, but that's for themselves to do, not the government.

[Rebdragon]

Magekillr, it is easy for a poor person to become middle class. It just takes good judgement, and good decision making. And yes, you're right, they do have to break the cycle of poverty, but that's for themselves to do, not the government.

 

Eh, yes and no. As an economic conservative I have to say that your opinion's pretty right; sometimes people do need a little boost here and there.

[oegly41]

 

Really? I was under the impression you were a hardcore capitalist.

 

Yeah, you think you know someone, then BAM! They're a communist! And then BAM! You get run over by a bus.

 

 

 

Magekillr, it is easy for a poor person to become middle class. It just takes good judgement, and good decision making. And yes, you're right, they do have to break the cycle of poverty, but that's for themselves to do, not the government.

 

Then we're back at what I said. You actually need some ability. It's not enough to work hard.

[magekillr]

Magekillr, it is easy for a poor person to become middle class. It just takes good judgement, and good decision making. And yes, you're right, they do have to break the cycle of poverty, but that's for themselves to do, not the government.

 

 

 

It's easy, huh?

 

 

 

Social experiment: when you're 18, I want you to go to college and refuse any help from your parents. I want you to deny their money, deny their signatures for loans (given your political beliefs I can safely say that they have the cash just waiting for you anyway), and go to college without any help.

 

 

 

Let's see you last, because I can bet you wouldn't even last a year. Frankly, you wouldn't last 5 minutes because you couldn't even go to school without a person that has good credit co-signing your loan.

 

 

 

Tell me how they can break out of poverty, and how it is "easy". I'd love to know.

[Quoi_Tu]

Magekillr, it is easy for a poor person to become middle class. It just takes good judgement, and good decision making. And yes, you're right, they do have to break the cycle of poverty, but that's for themselves to do, not the government.

 

 

 

It's easy, huh?

 

 

 

Social experiment: when you're 18, I want you to go to college and refuse any help from your parents. I want you to deny their money, deny their signatures for loans (given your political beliefs I can safely say that they have the cash just waiting for you anyway), and go to college without any help.

 

 

 

Let's see you last, because I can bet you wouldn't even last a year. Frankly, you wouldn't last 5 minutes because you couldn't even go to school without a person that has good credit co-signing your loan.

 

 

 

Tell me how they can break out of poverty, and how it is "easy". I'd love to know.

 

 

 

Solution to that is go to community college for 2 years while working, then transfer to college. You'll get into the college easier and have a credit history to get a loan on. I don't know about other states, but community college is almost free in NC.

 

 

 

I have a friend who is doing exactly that (his parents kicked him out at 18), not to mention another who's using the Air Force to pay for his college. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's not impossible.

[Igor]

@magekill

 

 

 

Sorry if my analogy wasn't to your liking, i couldn't really think of anything else to compare it too! ;)

 

 

 

But if evryone is on equal footing - and which i believe is for the greater % of people in the USA, then I think my analogy does make sense.

 

 

 

Work Hard: You can go anywhere, fulfill your own dreams.

 

Be Lazy: You'll become poor, not graduate high school, etc.

 

 

 

Even if you are very, very poor in the USA, you can still work hard and get yourself a good job.

[magekillr]

Solution to that is go to community college for 2 years while working, then transfer to college. You'll get into the college easier and have a credit history to get a loan on. I don't know about other states, but community college is almost free in NC.

 

 

 

That depends completely on your major, and your location.

 

 

 

That option was not available to me as an engineering major because I needed to go to a 4 year school right away, or else it would take me forever to graduate. It's already going to take 5 years, and if I went to a community college for the first 2 years it would take 6, 7, or possibly even 8. Why? Because I have to take classes not offered at community college that I must take, I must take pre-requisites to take others, and some classes are only offered one semester.

 

 

 

Lastly, given the current financial turmoil, I can't get a loan next semester even with a co-signer that has paid off their house.

[Igor]

@mage

 

 

 

Community college is next to free in most states.

[magekillr]

But if evryone is on equal footing - and which i believe is for the greater % of people in the USA, then I think my analogy does make sense.

 

 

 

 

Yup, it would. Too bad that's NOT the case. If it were, there would be nearly no one in poverty.

 

 

 

You're telling me that homeless veterans didn't work hard? Many of them are suffering from medical illnesses, and the US just leaves them there untreated since the '70's.

 

 

 

What's the highest cause of bankruptcy in the US? Health care bills. Are you to tell me those people didn't work hard? A lot of insurers won't accept you if you had a pre-existing condition. You might not have even had a pre-existing condition; it could have just been something you wrote down on a medical record that perhaps is interpreted as "pre-existing". They pay people to scour your medical records finding ONE mistake you may have made, and then drop you like it's hot.

[magekillr]

@mage

 

 

 

Community college is next to free in most states.

 

 

 

It's like you're incapable of reading or something. Quoi just said that, I posted a rebuttal, and you repeat the same talking point with no new analysis?

 

 

 

1.) No it's not

 

2.) I like how you said "most", meaning there are some states where it is expensive

 

3.) I have a new rebuttal on top of the one I previously made:

 

 

 

I already go to class for 15 hours a week, which is pretty small compared to my usual semesters. In order to graduate on time, I need to take on average 16 hours every semester. 16 hours. My teacher believes for every credit hour you have, you should work 3 hours outside of class each week for that hour. So, 16*3 = 48 hours of course work each week outside of class. 48+16 = 64 hours. Where would I find time to work when I'm already working 64 hours to begin with?

 

 

 

Granted, it's possible to do, but my grades would be much lower...and there's more to life than "working", especially in college. College should be a time where your financial responsibilities are lower to find out who you are as a person, not a place to get a piece of paper and a job. There's a lot more learning to be had than just in the classroom, and busing tables.

[Quoi_Tu]

Solution to that is go to community college for 2 years while working, then transfer to college. You'll get into the college easier and have a credit history to get a loan on. I don't know about other states, but community college is almost free in NC.

 

 

 

That depends completely on your major, and your location.

 

 

 

That option was not available to me as an engineering major because I needed to go to a 4 year school right away, or else it would take me forever to graduate. It's already going to take 5 years, and if I went to a community college for the first 2 years it would take 6, 7, or possibly even 8. Why? Because I have to take classes not offered at community college that I must take, I must take pre-requisites to take others, and some classes are only offered one semester.

 

 

 

Lastly, given the current financial turmoil, I can't get a loan next semester even with a co-signer that has paid off their house.

 

 

 

It's true that it doesn't work for every major, but it works for the majority of majors. Most majors aren't as rigorous as engineering especially if you count an engineering major from, say, VT or UVA. I'm not saying the system allows for equal opprotunity (it clearly does not); I am saying that it is possible to move up socio-economic classes.

 

 

 

This financial turmoil is putting everyone through a crisis and we're not constantly in a financial turmoil, so it's irrelevent. Yes, it may set some people back. Some people may be seeing their retirement fund or college fund dwindling, but that doesn't happen most of the time.

 

 

 

@mage

 

 

 

Community college is next to free in most states.

 

 

 

It's like you're incapable of reading or something. Quoi just said that, I posted a rebuttal, and you repeat the same talking point with no new analysis?

 

 

 

1.) No it's not

 

2.) I like how you said "most", meaning there are some states where it is expensive

 

3.) I have a new rebuttal on top of the one I previously made:

 

 

 

I already go to class for 15 hours a week, which is pretty small compared to my usual semesters. In order to graduate on time, I need to take on average 16 hours every semester. 16 hours. My teacher believes for every credit hour you have, you should work 3 hours outside of class each week for that hour. So, 16*3 = 48 hours of course work each week outside of class. 48+16 = 64 hours. Where would I find time to work when I'm already working 64 hours to begin with?

 

 

 

Granted, it's possible to do, but my grades would be much lower...and there's more to life than "working", especially in college. College should be a time where your financial responsibilities are lower to find out who you are as a person, not a place to get a piece of paper and a job. There's a lot more learning to be had than just in the classroom, and busing tables.

 

 

 

You know that's not a realistic amount of time or hours for the average college student. We have majors here you can graduate with only taking an average 15 hours a semester and doing ~15 hours outside of class and graduate with a 3.0 or better. That's 30 hours a week and graduating at above average. Then someone can do a work study here for 10 hours a week where they can spend most of that time working on their homework. The average college student has time to work, whether they do or not is different.

[Igor]

@Mage

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, i was just saying that you were completely wrong. It is free in most states, and the few where it isn't, they are incredibly cheap. I don't need an analysis for a proven fact, as I hoped you would be able to comprehend. Sadly, it seems i was gravely mistaken.

[magekillr]

It's true that it doesn't work for every major, but it works for the majority of majors. Most majors aren't as rigorous as engineering especially if you count an engineering major from, say, VT or UVA. I'm not saying the system allows for equal opprotunity (it clearly does not); I am saying that it is possible to move up socio-economic classes.

 

 

 

Hey, I never said it was not possible, I just said that most people on here arguing against higher taxes/welfare have never been in those situations themselves. I am very much aware that it's possible, very possible actually, but there are factors rendering it very difficult and sometimes not possible.

 

 

 

Let's take for example a person growing up in poverty. Chances are if they're in poverty, that their elementary and secondary education sucks to begin with. They're already put at a loss by having a bad experience in academia, which could do a number of things:

 

 

 

1.) Turn them off from learning

 

2.) Make them believe it's not possible to change it

 

3.) Lack of role models

 

4.) Crap education...so essentially their brains weren't stimulated as much

 

5.) Bad environment, leading to bad friendships, leading to worse choices

 

 

 

I mean, the public schools in Philadelphia have metal detectors for Christ's sake!

 

 

 

You know that's not a realistic amount of time or hours for the average college student. We have majors here you can graduate with only taking an average 15 hours a semester and doing ~15 hours outside of class and graduate with a 3.0 or better. That's 30 hours a week and graduating at above average. Then someone can do a work study here for 10 hours a week where they can spend most of that time working on their homework. The average college student has time to work, whether they do or not is different.

 

 

 

Like I said, I could make time to work, but I choose to volunteer/help the community instead. I do not look at college as a place to get a diploma, but a place where responsibilities should be lower so you can express yourself in ways you never thought possible while under the whim of your parents/upbringing, to learn who you are as a person. I'm certainly not lazy, but I know I don't want to be working all of the time to just to "get by"; what kind of life is that?

 

 

 

@mage

 

 

 

Community college is next to free in most states.

 

 

 

Orly?

 

 

 

http://www.acenet.edu/Content/Navigatio ... Prices.htm

 

 

 

That's per semester, and it doesn't include fees, books, room, or board.

 

 

 

Will you please back up your ridiculous claims with evidence, other than the fact that you were obviously born with a silver spoon in your mouth covered in a blanket of ignorance to the world around you?

 

 

 

edit: btw, that's 2003...so the cost has gone up by at least 10-20%. I know my tuition went up 10.2%? from last year. Maybe it was 11. Nonetheless, it went up by a minimum of 10% since the 2007-2008 school year.

[Quoi_Tu]

Hey, I never said it was not possible, I just said that most people on here arguing against higher taxes/welfare have never been in those situations themselves. I am very much aware that it's possible, very possible actually, but there are factors rendering it very difficult and sometimes not possible.

 

 

 

Let's take for example a person growing up in poverty. Chances are if they're in poverty, that their elementary and secondary education sucks to begin with. They're already put at a loss by having a bad experience in academia, which could do a number of things:

 

 

 

1.) Turn them off from learning

 

2.) Make them believe it's not possible to change it

 

3.) Lack of role models

 

4.) Crap education...so essentially their brains weren't stimulated as much

 

5.) Bad environment, leading to bad friendships, leading to worse choices

 

 

 

I mean, the public schools in Philadelphia have metal detectors for Christ's sake!

 

 

 

This I can very much agree with. It saddens me to see the state in which some schools are in. What's worse is when I meet people in college who have trasfered over this "learning's for losers or overachievers" attitude that developed in middle and high school. Personally, I wouldn't mind paying slightly higher taxes if I knew it would go to education reform on the lower levels. Specifically, middle school, where not a lot is learned nor taught.

[magekillr]

 

This I can very much agree with. It saddens me to see the state in which some schools are in. What's worse is when I meet people in college who have trasfered over this "learning's for losers or overachievers" attitude that developed in middle and high school. Personally, I wouldn't mind paying slightly higher taxes if I knew it would go to education reform on the lower levels. Specifically, middle school, where not a lot is learned nor taught.

 

 

 

It's an American phenomena where the athletes and rappers are worshiped, yet the people feel rebellious towards scientists and mathematicians. It's a lack of role models, or rather, a clouded judgment of who should be a role model.

 

 

 

That is one of the reasons I think it could be reasonable to vote for Obama based on race. The black community doesn't have many role models or people to aspire to. BET is the most pathetic piece of television garbage, and it even tops MTV and VH1. All of the black people I know despise BET for what it does to their community, and I couldn't agree more. It's horrible. However with Obama elected, maybe they can see a ray of hope with someone they can look up to that likes to read.

 

 

 

I know in Asian countries it's not the best looking or most athletic that are the most popular, but it's the smartest people that are looked to as the most popular. Being smart in America is not a good thing. It's the anti-intellectualism that fuels the Republican Party. Gone are the days of intelligent conservatives like William Buckley. Instead we're stuck with your average "Joe Six Pack" Sarah Palin as important people in the party. It's hating on people because they're "elitist" (which elitist in this context means smarter than average with a brilliant mind). Professing to want leaders "just like you" is indeed anti-intellectualism, and it shows a bad mark in our culture. I want someone so much smarter than I that I don't even know what the hell they're talking about unless they have to "stoop down to my level". I don't take offense to it, but many do.

[Igor]

"It's an American phenomena where the athletes and rappers are worshiped, yet the people feel rebellious towards scientists and mathematicians. It's a lack of role models, or rather, a clouded judgment of who should be a role model."

 

 

 

Oh, nowhere else?

[dangeresque]

It's the anti-intellectualism that fuels the Republican Party. Gone are the days of intelligent conservatives like William Buckley. Instead we're stuck with your average "Joe Six Pack" Sarah Palin as important people in the party. It's hating on people because they're "elitist" (which elitist in this context means smarter than average with a brilliant mind). Professing to want leaders "just like you" is indeed anti-intellectualism, and it shows a bad mark in our culture. I want someone so much smarter than I that I don't even know what the hell they're talking about unless they have to "stoop down to my level". I don't take offense to it, but many do.

 

Ok then, all Democrats are underinformed morons that vote based on feelings more than what the person represents. Is that true for all? No. Yes maybe there are a lot of Republicans that are "stupid", but there is a hell of a lot of democrats too.

 

 

 

And yes, there are metal detectors in some schools in Philly, but they're in the really bad sections. The metal detectors is more of a reflection on the community more than the school, I know that's not your point but just saying. I'd say if you want to reform inner-city schools then you have to first deal with it on the community level, stop crime, clean up the city, etc. It's never an easy job, but it is managable.

 

 

 

But seriously it seemed like whatever Obama said was Gospel, especially in the black communities, and they would vote for him if he said he was gonna nuke Isreal. Again not saying that doesn't go for both parties but I think it is more so on the Democratic side of the fence.

[magekillr]

I didn't call the Republican Party stupid. I said they rely on ignorance and stupidity for votes, and encourage anti-intellectualism.

 

 

 

Here is what I mean, specifically:

 

 

 

[dangeresque]

I didn't call the Republican Party stupid. I said they rely on ignorance and stupidity for votes, and encourage anti-intellectualism.

 

 

 

Here is what I mean, specifically:

 

 

 

 

Yes, the McCain campaign strategy sucked, but they were in a bad spot, I can't really blame them for putting out those ads and such. Yeah, a lot of people believed in that stuff, but the same goes for the other side. THEY BOTH DO IT.

 

 

 

And what's the difference between "stupid" and "they rely on ignorance and stupidity for votes, and encourage anti-intellectualism." -.-

[Quoi_Tu]

It's an American phenomena where the athletes and rappers are worshiped, yet the people feel rebellious towards scientists and mathematicians. It's a lack of role models, or rather, a clouded judgment of who should be a role model.

 

 

 

That is one of the reasons I think it could be reasonable to vote for Obama based on race. The black community doesn't have many role models or people to aspire to. BET is the most pathetic piece of television garbage, and it even tops MTV and VH1. All of the black people I know despise BET for what it does to their community, and I couldn't agree more. It's horrible. However with Obama elected, maybe they can see a ray of hope with someone they can look up to that likes to read.

 

 

 

This is not an opinion I like to state a lot, but I hate the hip-hop culture. There's the usual arguements of how it idolizes crime, violence, women as objects, money, and excessive materialism. However, it also makes kids think they can make it big without school.

 

 

 

A little tangental, but whenever I tell people I'm going to major in math, the most common reply is, "wow! You must be smart." No, I just happen to be majoring math. So many people approach math and science classes with the idea that they will be either impossible to understand or they won't need it in the future. It's mathphobia and it's irrational.

[magekillr]

I didn't call the Republican Party stupid. I said they rely on ignorance and stupidity for votes, and encourage anti-intellectualism.

 

 

 

Here is what I mean, specifically:

 

 

 

 

Yes, the McCain campaign strategy sucked, but they were in a bad spot, I can't really blame them for putting out those ads and such. Yeah, a lot of people believed in that stuff, but the same goes for the other side. THEY BOTH DO IT.

 

 

 

And what's the difference between "stupid" and "they rely on ignorance and stupidity for votes, and encourage anti-intellectualism." -.-

 

 

 

Because without those voters, the Republican party would be dead. Sure, there's some of it on both sides, but the Republican party thrives on it. Not only that, but they actively encourage this sort of behavior. "Oh that guy's not like you at all...he is snobbish and thinks you're all just a bunch of idiots. Vote for me, an average every day Joe!"

 

 

 

Ronald Reagan was probably the biggest anti-intellectual president we have ever had, he even beats out Bush in my opinion.

 

 

 

Here you go:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Articulate? Yeah right...

[magekillr]

However, it also makes kids think they can make it big without school.

 

 

 

 

YES! That's exactly it. It's not even the material itself, it's just that they see all of these rappers "making it", and then think they can just be a rapper and don't need school. It's a lack of role models. There was Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods for a while, but again, athletes #-o .

 

 

 

I remember talking to one of my black friends that's a mechanical engineer. He says that when he's in the community back home, a lot of the blacks that are REALLY smart act "stupid" and "ignorant" to fit in with the group. Like, if they act smart for some reason they're "betraying" their community :wall:

[dangeresque]

I didn't call the Republican Party stupid. I said they rely on ignorance and stupidity for votes, and encourage anti-intellectualism.

 

 

 

Here is what I mean, specifically:

 

 

 

 

Yes, the McCain campaign strategy sucked, but they were in a bad spot, I can't really blame them for putting out those ads and such. Yeah, a lot of people believed in that stuff, but the same goes for the other side. THEY BOTH DO IT.

 

 

 

And what's the difference between "stupid" and "they rely on ignorance and stupidity for votes, and encourage anti-intellectualism." -.-

 

 

 

Because without those voters, the Republican party would be dead. Sure, there's some of it on both sides, but the Republican party thrives on it. Not only that, but they actively encourage this sort of behavior. "Oh that guy's not like you at all...he is snobbish and thinks you're all just a bunch of idiots. Vote for me, an average every day Joe!"

 

 

 

Ronald Reagan was probably the biggest anti-intellectual president we have ever had, he even beats out Bush in my opinion.

 

 

 

Here you go:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Articulate? Yeah right...

 

I think that the Democrats thrive on it just as much as the Rep's. All the Dem's do is say that all rich people are evil and that the poor are getting shafted and they have the poor people sold. Tbh I see the Rep's (excluding evangelicals) as realistic and Dem's as idealistic. It would be nice if we could all just hold hands and be happy in the world, but that will never happen, and nothing is as easy as both the candidates make them out to be.

[jasignhagj]

Basicly im for

 

High environmental standards like wind solar hydro nuclear, natural gas where needed, and absolutely no "clean" coal. we should also raise gas consumption standards to 50 mpg and invest heavily in plug in cars and scrap corn ethanol.

 

 

 

Fiscally i think the income tax is fair and banks need more regulation, because they obviously cant do it themselves

 

 

 

Pro gay rights, but civil unions and not marrige

 

 

 

voting age lowered to 13, because, then the education system might get more support, and

 

 

 

immigration needs to be cut a lot though, and the mexico - us wall is a good idea.

 

 

 

my score on the test

 

On Non-Fiscal Issues, you rank as a Moderate Liberal (28).

 

On Fiscal Issues, you rank as a Moderate Liberal (37).

[wa5t3dy0u7h]

voting age lowered to 13, because, then the education system might get more support

 

 

 

 

 

Sheesh that's a harsh drop..