Fairy Tales - The Life in Them (Philosophical)

[raven_gaurd0]

When I say Fairy Tales, I mean more than just the little piggies and the big bad wolf. There are so many things that people consider to be fanciful fairy tales to be loved and adored by little children...but that are not acceptable in the big world of stock market, global recession, and a global upheaval against Islamic fundamentalism. (That really what it is - 'You can practice this, this, and this about your religion, but not this.)

 

 

 

I think we could all use to believe in a few more fairy tales...I mean, that childish against-all-odds hope that is generally ignored by hard calculated thinkers.

 

 

 

I think without this 'fairy-tale' life would be incredibly bleak.

 

 

 

Fairy tales in every form, though it may seem childish, seem to kindle a kind of hope in me that no artificial invention of man (society, politics, organized religion, the economy) can match. I feel like I'm being immature, but if I didn't believe that there was something more out there...something that defied all the rules and gave life a mystical sort of hope that added a twinkle to my eye and a fire to my heart, I just don't think that this life would be worth living.

 

 

 

IN SHORT.

 

What do you think the world would be like without fairy-tales? And...hell, just do you guys think it's stupid for a grown man like me to still believe in other worlds filled with lovely creatures like dwarves and hobbits that defy all the rules?

 

 

 

P.S. I'm not insane. Just...a dreamer. :

[Lateralus]

If what you're talking about is retaining a sense of wonder and majesty towards life as you get older, then I agree with you of course. However, I absolutely disagree that this sense of wonder should be derived from delusions. The reality of things is more beautiful than I could possibly hope to explain. There's times when I feel like I'm going to burst because of how overwhelming and glorious life really is. I won't turn this into a critique of religion, but if you honestly think that without a god or creator or magical fairy tale creatures that life would be bleak and impossible to endure then I really think you're missing something.

[l0rd]

I don't believe in fairy tales, but calling your believe in a god a "tale" is kinda working against you, it gives it a fictitious connotation. Anywho, I don't want this to turn into another religion debate thread cause there is enough of those.

 

 

 

I'm not fond of the common fairy tales either really. If the Narnia series is considered a fairy tale then I guess that'd be my favorite.

 

 

 

Oh, and how do I go about living without a God held true in my life?

 

Hmm, I live it, and get the most out of it.

[Lenticular_J]

I believe billions of universes coexist a nucleus' length apart from each other. Maddeningly short distance, but still unreachable - except by certain people. Every time there is a choice in the universe, one choice creates another universe, and the other creates, well, another.

 

 

 

But this only takes place around sentience. I can't say for certain that it happens anywhere but around humans, though - I'm not one to say whether or not there's other sentient, self-seeing life out there.

 

 

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, though. Do you mean idealistic hopes and dreams, perhaps? Because I agree that without the idea of being able to strive for bettering yourself, life would suck.

 

 

 

But, like Lateralus says, there's plenty to enjoy in life where you are. I believe that these delusions help people learn that life moves so fast, you have to stop and take a look around once in a while - or else you might miss it.

[raven_gaurd0]

I was reading the 'Is God Real Post Your Thoughts!' post when I heard somebody call God a fairy-tale, so that's when I wrote this. (Or maybe it was in something I watched?)

 

 

 

It's hard to explain in words. I'm not...Hmph. This is hellish. I'm not proposing that there are actually centaurs and dwarves and the like out there. I am trying to say that Fairy Tales, and therefore the belief in something more than life on earth (especially in Denver, where I live, or New York or Chicago, and NOT just a theistic perspective) is the only reason why life still holds value. At least, for me. I don't really know what that other thing is, though.

 

 

 

EDIT: Maybe I'm trying to say that there is a hope that there are magical universes in those little spaces, and getting to those little places for a better life is a form of hopeful fairytale? Damn, this idea seemed so much better in my head last night!

[l0rd]

So one might summarize your point as: I believe that fictitious stories and the spirit of them must be absorbed into ones life one way or another or else he sees no reason to live?

 

 

 

Or is it: I see no reason to live without a God.

[Lenticular_J]

So one might summarize your point as: I believe that fictitious stories and the spirit of them must be absorbed into ones life one way or another or else he sees no reason to live?

 

 

 

Or is it: I see no reason to live without a God.

 

 

 

I don't believe in fairy tales, but calling your believe in a god a "tale" is kinda working against you, it gives it a fictitious connotation. Anywho, I don't want this to turn into another religion debate thread cause there is enough of those.

 

You're a bad liar.

[raven_gaurd0]

The former. I'm not trying to make a religious debate (though the latter holds to be perfectly true for me - but obviously not for everybody.) I think that without the whimsical hope that fairy tales inspire, and, indeed, are, life as we know it, in this very macabre, rigid, and repetitive world, would simply not be worth enduring.

 

 

 

I'm like an optimistic pessimist :twss:

 

 

 

P.S. Yeah...this is totally not a religious debate. The use of God was analogous. Substitute with dwarf, for all I care.

[l0rd]

So one might summarize your point as: I believe that fictitious stories and the spirit of them must be absorbed into ones life one way or another or else he sees no reason to live?

 

 

 

Or is it: I see no reason to live without a God.

 

 

 

I don't believe in fairy tales, but calling your believe in a god a "tale" is kinda working against you, it gives it a fictitious connotation. Anywho, I don't want this to turn into another religion debate thread cause there is enough of those.

 

You're a bad liar.

 

 

 

Lying about what? If you mean I'm lying about not wanting another religion debate, your sort of right :twisted:

[raven_gaurd0]

...*Puts on a helmet.*

 

Edit the God out! EDIT THE GOD OUT!

[l0rd]

...*Puts on a helmet.*

 

Edit the God out! EDIT THE GOD OUT!

 

 

 

So when editing the god out you're basically saying what I thought you meant in a few posts ^^: You believe that fictitious stories and the spirit of them must be absorbed into ones life one way or another or else he sees no reason to live?

[raven_gaurd0]

Yes. Pretty much. That spirit also just happens to be in religion, which I feel is a more blatant example that more people can compare to. This is by no means a religion thread. Those are just...on fire.

[l0rd]

Yes. Pretty much. That spirit also just happens to be in religion, which I feel is a more blatant example that more people can compare to. This is by no means a religion thread. Those are just...on fire.

 

 

 

What you're doing is not making sense and contradicting yourself, OR I'm totally missing the point. You say that religion is the main fairy tale that when taken its' spirit you have a reason to live, but this has nothing to do with God. If so, then other such fairy tales exist, ones like the common ones in book form, written by people like you and me. These people's imaginative storytelling makes life worth living? How can you possibly have to rely on someone else to make your life worth living?

[raven_gaurd0]

*Facedesk. Facedesk facedesk facedesk FACEDESK.* OH NOES I'M BLEEDING.

 

 

 

You're missing the point. I'ma go edit above.

 

 

 

LIFE IS GREAT BECAUSE THERE IS HOPE PROVIDED IN WHIMSICAL FAIRY-TALES, THE MOST COMMON OF WHICH BEING RELIGION, BUT IS NOT LIMITED THERETO.

 

 

 

Caps lock. I feel like a troller. But that's my point (I think.) Like I said, for ME, RAVEN_GUARD0, God IS that fairy-tale that gives me hope and happiness, but I also like to believe that by some strange quirk of nature there are other worlds out there that I might get to visit one day (wormholes, other planets, extra-planar dimensions, etc)

 

 

 

Kay?

[Dalcyte]

Hm. Interesting point here.

 

 

 

I'd agree but only on a certain level. You seem to believe that life is enriched and supplemented by religion, by christianity, by any religion. Well there's so much to be said on this topic. One the one hand, people's lives have been altered and changed dramatically by their beliefs in a diety. Yet on the other hand, i'd go ahead and say that more people's lives have been taken because of religion. Religion shaped this world, and our world has been shaped by wars. Almost every war in early times going up to about world war I, wars were over Christianity (or at least they were pretexts for it). But wars do make life interesting i suppose on a completely separate hand...and they did make the world how it is today.

 

 

 

As a side note: you say that the theory of God has endured the wrath of atheists and agnostics throughout the centuries. This is quite false. The theory of God has been attacked by one large group, and that group alone. People who believe in other religions. Christians were hunted down and tossed in the colesseum by Roman pagaens. Jews were hunted down by Christians. Muslims were hunted down by Christians, and vice versa. God has been attacked by a handful of philosophers ever since the enlightenment, but a handful of well-educated, dense philosophers aren't going to change the minds of the millions of people. The fact that God has stood up to the test of atheism is no big thing. The fact that one religion has stood up to others is a big thing.

 

 

 

Coming back to the point: I think that life is indeed enriched by "fairy tales". Fairy tales can be religion, yes. I personally consider all religions to be "fairy tales" so to speak, and someone who is a Christian believes that all other religions are "fairy tales", so on. It's just my belief personally. But that's not to say i don't have fairy tales. I think without legends, myths, life is indeed quite dull. I don't have any fake legend that i aspire to (not say God is fake! When someone says legend though, it isn't necessarily true is all...). But i would say many people's successes have been inspired at least in some part by some legend, myth or religion.

 

 

 

yet again, on the same token, society has been suffocated by religion (Dark ages?). So to sum up my argument: I believe its complicated. Life is indeed enriched on many levels by "fairy tales", but it also is suffocated by them in many ways. To say that life wouldn't be worth living without a fairy tale is a bit over the top. You have to realize this. Religion, legends, myths, etc: they all put limits on what can be done, what is possible, etc because of what the characters of the legend have accomplished. They have reached the pinacle of what there is, and there is no ascention beyond that. In all due respect, i believe that without a fairy tale, the human mind can expand endlessly. But again, now i'm really talking about religion here and this isn't the time or place. It's complicated i guess...if you're speaking about legends alone, then they're good, they help stimulate and inspire. But if you spread "fairy tale" to include religion, it gets much more messy.

[warri0r45]

If what you're talking about is retaining a sense of wonder and majesty towards life as you get older, then I agree with you of course. However, I absolutely disagree that this sense of wonder should be derived from delusions. The reality of things is more beautiful than I could possibly hope to explain. There's times when I feel like I'm going to burst because of how overwhelming and glorious life really is. I won't turn this into a critique of religion, but if you honestly think that without a god or creator or magical fairy tale creatures that life would be bleak and impossible to endure then I really think you're missing something.

 

 

 

Completely agreed.

 

 

 

People shouldn't need fairy tales or tall stories to find wonder and vibrancy in life when reality is so much more awesome. Learning about molecular biology, for example, is one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. The complex inner workings of the cells of all life forms sing one familiar song: their metabolism geared so efficiently towards the oxidation of various compounds to extract energy for the synthesis of proteins and the replication of DNA. That very DNA storing life's secrets of both present and past. That, to me, is incredible. There's nothing dull about nature and reality.

 

 

 

As Carl Sagan put it: "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to perist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

[venomai]

Reality is hundreds of times more beautiful and more interesting than delusions. Fairy tales just tend to be easier to follow than the wonderful intricacies of life.

[raven_gaurd0]

The spirits embodied in religion is what is (at least I feel) the core of the point here.

 

 

 

Ok. Spirits in religion are (suppose to be) general kindness and something in life that leads to something else. It's a form of aspiration, right? So you're absolutely right in claiming that organized religion itself (Ah ha! Ossum. Back to my first point; organized religion caused the suffering, not religion) has harmed people, but has the spirit of religion done any harm? Seeing as I can not name a single religion that has the spirit of harm built into it. I am not actually quite sure that there are none out there, so if you can correct me, please do.

 

 

 

The essence, the ideal, the life in a fairy-tale is more than just a moral of aesthetic nostalgic words, I think that even in the simplest of fables that were here to explain introduced a type of wonder and awe into the world that, while it may seem an unsurmountable amount of evidence has been amassed against it, I still consider to be at least plausible. And even that little shred of hope may still light a path of happiness that might not have existed for another (like me) who is simply not content to live at a cubicle until I'm 64 and get tossed aside like an over-used rag.

 

 

 

Man, I'm depressing.

 

 

 

Fairy-tales contain life that is suppose to be believed in moreso than the content, and the life, the spirit, simply gave rise in the imagination of the Creator (of the fairy-tale, that is) to create a world around that idea. Loving an idea and believing the idea of the fairy-tale to be true inevitably leads to the general belief that the world created by the Creator would be a better one than the one that you currently live in; ie, Hope. The only reason why you would believe in an ideal in a fairy-tale above a 'real' ideal is because you believe that the fairy-tale ideal is better, but is less suitable to the society, since the societies are in fact drastically different. (I mean, hobbits never dressed up in suits and crunched numbers for AIG, right?)

 

 

 

Do you guys get what I'm trying to say? I apologize vehemently for my own problem relaying this into words, but try not to take this as a religion based debate. It's not. It's a debate as to whether or not it's Right or Wrong to believe in fairy-tale ideals over 'real' ones.Vaguely. Sorta.

 

 

 

You guys are screwing up my brain! :wall:

[l0rd]

I c wut u did thar.

 

 

 

Anywho, to answer. I think the best way to "alter" ones reality is not to change facts, but to change perception. For example if I had a dream of a world where all bananas had the ability to talk, and I thought the dream was grand. I wouldn't then go about pretending that the bananas were talking to me, or hoping they are. The reason being is because the essence of science disproves of any such thing. Instead if I really wanted to hold this true to myself I would hold a banana up to my ear and listen to the silence it emits and enjoy every minute of it.

[raven_gaurd0]

Of course, you can't change facts, and I'm not advocating that you withdraw into an insufferable shell of self-denial. I am saying, however, that you should at least live to drive that perhaps some day that bananas could talk.

 

 

 

P.S. Bananas are delicious.

[l0rd]

Of course, you can't change facts, and I'm not advocating that you withdraw into an insufferable shell of self-denial. I am saying, however, that you should at least live to drive that perhaps some day that bananas could talk.

 

 

 

P.S. Bananas are delicious.

 

 

 

Don't ask me why

[pureprayer]

Of course, you can't change facts, and I'm not advocating that you withdraw into an insufferable shell of self-denial. I am saying, however, that you should at least live to drive that perhaps some day that bananas could talk.

 

 

 

P.S. Bananas are delicious.

 

 

 

Don't ask me why

 

 

 

LOL, made me laugh.

 

 

 

But I that someday I could be an athlete?

[raven_gaurd0]

Yeah, that's the vague idea, though considerably more mortal. The spirit of fairy-tales, of anything coming true for all the right reasons, that's good stuff, and that you can always legitimately hope that you can be an athlete...or talk to bananas.

[Flyingjj]

 

People shouldn't need fairy tales or tall stories to find wonder and vibrancy in life when reality is so much more awesome. Learning about molecular biology, for example, is one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. The complex inner workings of the cells of all life forms sing one familiar song: their metabolism geared so efficiently towards the oxidation of various compounds to extract energy for the synthesis of proteins and the replication of DNA. That very DNA storing life's secrets of both present and past. That, to me, is incredible. There's nothing dull about nature and reality.

 

 

 

As Carl Sagan put it: "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to perist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

 

Except studying DNA is boring. As I put it this past semester as I was preparing for my Bioinformatics/Genomics Test, DNA makes too much sense to be interesting.

 

 

 

And I wholeheartedly disagree with that quote. Trust me, I've perceived reality and I've found it lacking in many respects. (Go ahead, I give you my permission to flame me for the absurdity of that statement). Fairy tales and alternate realities give us something to strive for, to reach for the better, the hope to generally improve the reality we perceive. Hmmm... maybe I do agree with you, just not quite in the sense I think you think I should. "Delusions," as you (or Carl Sagan) call our fairy tales, have nothing to do with how we perceive reality. "Delusions" (as we see it)are only what is possible, not what is. We, or at least I, have no problem seeing reality as what it is, but we believe in the possible, that the reality we can strive to change our reality.

 

 

 

So, in conclusion, I think I agree with the original poster. I think fairy tales can happen.

[raven_gaurd0]

Yes, Flyinjj got the point. It's not trying to say that somehow fairy-tales will be with us, here, in our lives, but merely saying that fairy-tales give us something more to strive for that is, on an opinion-based analysis, better than the world that we live in. Whether that means being an athlete or banana-talker, the life of a fairy-tale coming true certainly is the true reason humans survive fruitfully and bearably on earth.