Tip.It Times: 8 Feb 2009 "Penguin Bannings' Addressed"

[Rainy_Day]

waheera1, please feel free to take full advantage of the edit button as opposed to posting 4 times in a row.

[Madmanpur3]

Sorry Tripsis, but Jagex has EVERYTHING to be embarrassed about. A glitch of this kind should never have made it through rigorous quality control testing, the fact it did is something that they do need to address. Given the amount of money Jagex as a company make, and the wages they are able to offer to their workforce (all quite reasonable, trust me, I looked the other day), mistakes like this cannot be written off as "just an accident", or "nothing to be embarrassed about".

 

 

 

Multinational computing companies would lose £millions (as a minimum) for mistakes on this kind of scale, and would probably never recover from the loss of business. It is fortunate for Jagex that their fan base is more forgiving and that they offer something which their closest rivals cannot, but they should ALWAYS be embarrassed and apologetic for mistakes that originate solely from within their own company.

 

 

 

In the long run, they did an ok job on damage limitation, but for the players permanently banned, some of whom may well have spent hundreds of pounds/dollars on their characters, Jagex let them down badly. The fact that they did not openly stand up and take the flak for their own mistakes as well as dealing appropriately with rule breakers is an absolute shambles. A glitch with such widespread impacts as the penguin one should have had a post on the main page explaining what went wrong and how people were being dealt with. It should not have taken as long as it did to be dealt with, and there are no excuses for a bad job.

 

For all we know it could've been a sting-like operation to weed out cheaters. :lol: But seriously, what's the point of even having a rule against bug abuse if they plan to take full responsibility for mistakes. They realize they are human, they know it doesn't take much for something to slip through (maybe the person in charge of overlooking everything had a rough night?), so to account for all of that - they made a rule that says "Hey look, we will mistakes at times, so when we do just don't abuse them. Play the game how it's meant to be played and we'll take care of our mistakes."

[mrdoctorsir]

I really thought that the mass banning article was really good for once its an article that's not nearly as critical towards jagex good job

 

but the diversions one i thought wasn't that great i don't think it stuck to topic enough but it was ok

 

not a fan of the fiction writings so i didn't read those but all in all good job

[waheera1]

Sorry Tripsis, but Jagex has EVERYTHING to be embarrassed about. A glitch of this kind should never have made it through rigorous quality control testing, the fact it did is something that they do need to address. Given the amount of money Jagex as a company make, and the wages they are able to offer to their workforce (all quite reasonable, trust me, I looked the other day), mistakes like this cannot be written off as "just an accident", or "nothing to be embarrassed about".

 

 

 

Multinational computing companies would lose £millions (as a minimum) for mistakes on this kind of scale, and would probably never recover from the loss of business. It is fortunate for Jagex that their fan base is more forgiving and that they offer something which their closest rivals cannot, but they should ALWAYS be embarrassed and apologetic for mistakes that originate solely from within their own company.

 

 

 

In the long run, they did an ok job on damage limitation, but for the players permanently banned, some of whom may well have spent hundreds of pounds/dollars on their characters, Jagex let them down badly. The fact that they did not openly stand up and take the flak for their own mistakes as well as dealing appropriately with rule breakers is an absolute shambles. A glitch with such widespread impacts as the penguin one should have had a post on the main page explaining what went wrong and how people were being dealt with. It should not have taken as long as it did to be dealt with, and there are no excuses for a bad job.

 

For all we know it could've been a sting-like operation to weed out cheaters. :lol: But seriously, what's the point of even having a rule against bug abuse if they plan to take full responsibility for mistakes. They realize they are human, they know it doesn't take much for something to slip through (maybe the person in charge of overlooking everything had a rough night?), so to account for all of that - they made a rule that says "Hey look, we will mistakes at times, so when we do just don't abuse them. Play the game how it's meant to be played and we'll take care of our mistakes."

 

 

 

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I'm not seeking to exonerate those guilty of breaking the rules. They should know what the rules are, and in breaking them they do deserve the appropriate punishment.

 

 

 

That said, it is not the players' fault that the glitch existed for them to abuse. Whilst they should not have abused it, Jagex should not have allowed the bug through their system - they are usually pretty competent at preventing glitches in new content. As responsible professionals it is their place to admit to the fact that they screwed up, and they should have taken a much more transparent approach to the cleanup operation. How many working professionals get let off for a huge flaw in their work because they've written into their contract "Hey, I might screw up..."? Not many. Jagex are lucky in that the nature of their "work" allows it, but they should still stand up and take the flak when they do make mistakes.

[waheera1]

waheera1, please feel free to take full advantage of the edit button as opposed to posting 4 times in a row.

 

 

 

I was simply posting comments as I read the relevant posts from others. Apologies if I'm not sufficiently adept at making forums look pretty... :P

 

 

 

Also, much as I would like to amend it, there seems no "delete message" function for retrospectively removing unwanted messages, so there it seems my hands are tied.

 

 

 

FYI I'm relatively new to these forums and don't find I particularly like the system of multiple quoting. I'll do my best not to post multiple comments in short succession, but bear with me on it.

[G_P_Kid]

Sure I could be lying. Unless I happened to ever so convienently vid the situation. OH! Look what I found:

 

Tell me how many times it tells me that I received points for spotting that penguin please. Or I can save you the time. Once.

 

Can I just point something out here G_P_Kid:

 

 

 

Why the hell were you videoing something as mundane as penguin spotting, unless it was to "prove" that you weren't abusing the bug? And if it was to be used as proof that you weren't bug abusing, why not just avoid abusing the bug...? If you knew about the bug and then decided to video the event, it's a pretty stupid thing to do. Whether or not you abused the bug, the furore surrounding the whole affair, even reportedly on the days when the bug was around, would've been enough of a clue to tell you to get the hell out of there.

 

 

 

Do you remember 6-6-6? The Fally massacre was made famous from that video. The event can be relived today. That was my intention with the video, so we can remember this and see the crowd years from now. Btw, reason I am also very angry about the ban is because I let down a lot of people. People enjoyed the vids I made and now I'm banned many other than me are angry about it. Go look at the comments. (Warning, explicit language in some comments)

[waheera1]

Sure I could be lying. Unless I happened to ever so convienently vid the situation. OH! Look what I found:

 

Tell me how many times it tells me that I received points for spotting that penguin please. Or I can save you the time. Once.

 

Can I just point something out here G_P_Kid:

 

 

 

Why the hell were you videoing something as mundane as penguin spotting, unless it was to "prove" that you weren't abusing the bug? And if it was to be used as proof that you weren't bug abusing, why not just avoid abusing the bug...? If you knew about the bug and then decided to video the event, it's a pretty stupid thing to do. Whether or not you abused the bug, the furore surrounding the whole affair, even reportedly on the days when the bug was around, would've been enough of a clue to tell you to get the hell out of there.

 

 

 

Do you remember 6-6-6? The Fally massacre was made famous from that video. The event can be relived today. That was my intention with the video, so we can remember this and see the crowd years from now. Btw, reason I am also very angry about the ban is because I let down a lot of people. People enjoyed the vids I made and now I'm banned many other than me are angry about it. Go look at the comments. (Warning, explicit language in some comments)

 

 

 

I do remember it indeed, was it really 6th June 06?! Classic date for a monumental jagex balls-up! :-P Can I just ask, are you permanently banned or temporarily banned? I myself have become fairly anti-jagex when it comes to customer service/relations issues, hence some of my other posts stating how they should've taken full responsibility for their part in the debacle.

 

 

 

I can see both sides of the situation here and whilst I deem it necessary that the offenders should be punished, I can well imagine the righteous fury of the people who have funded the company which essentially created the bug which got them banned. This is too simplistic, and I stand by the fact that the abusers should rightfully be punished, but had I known about the bug I would not have made myself so vulnerable as to create a video about it that required the spam clicking of penguins. I can understand why you're indignant about this situation, and I hope that if you truly are innocent that you get just compensation. A word of warning on the future however, would be that if someone COULD think you're doing something wrong, they probably WILL, even if it's not the case. Don't leave yourself open to that chance.

[Lore]

 

RuneHQ does not come into it at all. The authors should be trying to impress us the readers. Reading articles that are badly edited, poorly punctuated and littered with spelling mistakes leads me to think: "Way to go, for a 10 year old." It is basic stuff that ANYONE who wants to write ANYTHING absolutely MUST do right or should expect to be strongly criticised for getting wrong.

 

 

 

 

Don't complain because the souffle's a little deflated.. It still tastes the same :

[waheera1]

 

RuneHQ does not come into it at all. The authors should be trying to impress us the readers. Reading articles that are badly edited, poorly punctuated and littered with spelling mistakes leads me to think: "Way to go, for a 10 year old." It is basic stuff that ANYONE who wants to write ANYTHING absolutely MUST do right or should expect to be strongly criticised for getting wrong.

 

 

 

 

Don't complain because the souffle's a little deflated.. It still tastes the same :

 

 

 

Hehe I like your analogy, but for a more refined palette even the shape matters! :P :^o

[G_P_Kid]

waheera, it's permanent

[waheera1]

waheera, it's permanent

 

 

 

Sorry to hear that. As I've said, I can only half-heartedly condone permanent bannings for something like this which essentially involved their error coming first in a "chicken or egg" kind of situation. Hope you'll be able to shrug off the money they've squandered, and assuming you were innocent I hope you never get caught out unfairly like this again.

 

 

 

Brace yourself though, it does happen and it probably will in some way at some time in your life.

 

 

 

All the best.

[Troacctid]

All of these were poorly edited. They're riddled with errors.

 

 

 

Pick a thesis and stick to it! You don't need to talk about every aspect of the topic; you just need to talk about the ones that support your argument. :thumbup:

 

 

 

In a report or a debate topic, it is well-known that where possible, you are meant to show to the readers that you understand other peoples possible oppinions on the topic. This is to show that you have not only done the research, but you have not written off the fact that you may be wrong!

 

 

 

OT: The penguin post was both interesting, relevant and well structured! Well done!

 

 

 

Any chance of at translation here? Why did you quote troacctid, a regular and highly articulate poster, before writing seemingly unrelated drivel that was "poorly edited, riddled with errors"?

 

Actually, he's right, it is good advice. Acknowledging the opposition, making concessions where you agree with them, and then refuting their argument...it can do a lot to increase your ethos and make your own argument more persuasive. (You learn this stuff when you've taken English classes taught by the coach of the debate team. Sure beats Lord of the Flies if you ask me. :) ) I thought of pointing it out myself when TS Stormrage posted that he got complaints from people who thought he didn't cover all the sides of the story, but I suppose I just never did. 'Course, when I see people quoting my posts... ;)

 

 

 

As for "highly articulate," well that's just great, now you've fed my ego. Next thing you know it'll be wearing a Roy Orbison wig and running amok all over town.

[waheera1]

All of these were poorly edited. They're riddled with errors.

 

 

 

Pick a thesis and stick to it! You don't need to talk about every aspect of the topic; you just need to talk about the ones that support your argument. :thumbup:

 

 

 

In a report or a debate topic, it is well-known that where possible, you are meant to show to the readers that you understand other peoples possible oppinions on the topic. This is to show that you have not only done the research, but you have not written off the fact that you may be wrong!

 

 

 

OT: The penguin post was both interesting, relevant and well structured! Well done!

 

 

 

Any chance of at translation here? Why did you quote troacctid, a regular and highly articulate poster, before writing seemingly unrelated drivel that was "poorly edited, riddled with errors"?

 

Actually, he's right, it is good advice. Acknowledging the opposition, making concessions where you agree with them, and then refuting their argument...it can do a lot to increase your ethos and make your own argument more persuasive. (You learn this stuff when you've taken English classes taught by the coach of the debate team. Sure beats Lord of the Flies if you ask me. :) ) I thought of pointing it out myself when TS Stormrage posted that he got complaints from people who thought he didn't cover all the sides of the story, but I suppose I just never did. 'Course, when I see people quoting my posts... ;)

 

 

 

As for "highly articulate," well that's just great, now you've fed my ego. Next thing you know it'll be wearing a Roy Orbison wig and running amok all over town.

 

 

 

I was being a bit harsh perhaps, given I was in a pretty foul mood at the time. I couldn't see the point of his quoting your post without making any reference to it. I can accept the points he made, but the way they were written irritated me, there being no actual need to quote your comments even though they do concur! Also yes, I know there are ways in which one can improve the strength of one's arguments through making concessions etc, but thanks for pointing it out for anyone reading who didn't know that. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

I look forward to seeing Roy Orbison in action! :-P And a big lol for the Lord of the Flies comment! :lol:

[mrdoctorsir]

I like the article this week - mass banning one was one of the better ones I've read in a while

 

good job

 

But I have a question who can I contact if I want to suggest a did you know for the next tipi it times?

[techstu79]

"A larger group of players has been temporarily banned. Although numbers suggest that they clearly knew that they were repeatedly exploiting a bug, their gains were not, in the words of Jagex, 'obscene'."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a MASSIVE problem with this! I don't care if you only did it 2 times, the first let your intelligent human brain know what was going on.

 

 

 

Anything after that, anyone that is smart enough to be able to play runescape, KNEW what they were doing!

 

 

 

A temp ban is NOT sufficient!

 

 

 

Their is NO grey area here, you either follow the rules and are contributer to the game, or you don't at which piont your a detriment to the game and need to be removed, PERMANENTLY!

 

 

 

This sicken's me, Jagex's greed to not lose membership dollars, may very well cause many of their Adult Players, who understand what it means to be cheated in Real Life (not protected under the home of the parents), life myself, feel realy scorned right now!

 

 

 

Why even follow the rules?

 

 

 

Obviously, this isn't the first time, jagex cares more for membership dollars than creating a fair and equal game for EVERYONE.

 

 

 

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.......

 

 

 

 

 

JAGEX YOUR ACTIONS STINK!

[Lore]

Yes, and every time you slip 1 mile-kilometer /h over the speed limit you should be given a speeding ticket.

 

 

 

Get real.. Rules are made to be practical. So they got an extra 20k xp or so, that doesn't really give them any advantage ingame, not compared to someone who got themselves multiple 99's.