Skillcapes - Advantageous or Disadvantageous?

[archimage_a]

No it makes no sense, because you SHOULD be paying for the labour cost, at least in the real world..

 

 

 

Well...If we think about it the labour costs have already been paid for by Runescape, in the form of XP. Sort of like subsidising agriculture (in the real world) so you can sell your crops at a loss (or even just torch your crops) but still make a relative profit.

 

Only difference is that XP doesn't require taxes....Funny if it did.

 

 

 

The problem does not lie in the skillcapes, but rather in the skillcape mentality. If you like a skill, if that skill is needed to fuel one of your other skills, then it's a good idea to train it. If it's easy to get it to 99, don't train it just because of that. You'll end up with a cape nobody respects and you'll be messing up the economy.

 

 

 

The problem doesn't lie in Guns, it lies in the people who shoot people with guns. Guns on their own are very benefical(No they arn't), it is only when people use them that they become dangerous.

 

The point is that....As someone once said 'I climb it because it is there', we do things because we can and because we believe there is a reward in it.

 

 

 

The second point: But it's just me...I can't lose respect for everyone with a skill cape, and I alone can't mess up the economy. It is everyone else who is doing it that is the problem, if they didn't then I could without fear. Furthermore if I don't then I will be a noob for not have a skillcape. I am not a noob so therefore I must have a skill cape.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, the problem might lie in the sheer number of players with high levels. If there were only a hundred people with the level needed to cook sharks, cooked sharks would be very valuable. In order for one to exist, it would have to be cooked by one of these master cooks, and they wouldn't all spend their whole lives playing RS and cooking those sharks. In the current situation, they're worth almost the same price cooked as raw.

 

 

 

If only one or two people had power in this country (monarchy/dictatorship) then there would not all the political rubbish that goes on. The people at the top would get their opinions across.

 

On the other hand if, say, only 100 people had the ability to cook sharks(and sharks were, for instance' sake, the highest healing food). It would lead to one of two systems.

 

The first being a system where only the creme-dela-creme used Sharks, and everyone else used a lower food...Say Swordfish.

 

The second being a system where a relatively small number of people controlled a relatively large amount of the economy. It would not be difficult for them to syndicate, forming a closed market, meaning they could charge extortionate amounts for the sharks.

 

The issue is, once you have a system like that in place that it will spread, say Swordfish come under their control(not particually hard, you are making 10K per shark, you start paying 1K for Raw Swordfish and 2K for Cooked Swordfish...you have the most money so you can raise the price...Once it becomes profitable you syndicate say the 5000 people who can cook Swordfish...or even just most of them, and then Lobsters(ignoring monkfish for the sake of speed).

 

The long and the short is that, unless you hand picked the people and regulated them to within an inch of their lives, they would very quickly control massive amounts.

 

 

 

When your weapon is worth less than your food, something's wrong.

 

Extremely true, but as demonstrated above the system cannot be tackled as it is. Like anything which fails to do good it is extremely difficult to fix the problem...take education for example:

 

'We have generations who can read, but do not know what to read.'

 

How do we fix that problem? There is not the chance to fix that problem and the trashy books have already been published, so will continue to be read even if they are somehow fixed.

 

The same is true for the RS economy...

 

Now that everyone has 99 this that and the other there is no way to turn the clock back, to fix the markets.

 

Any sweeping solution will lead to a completely new system, and it is unlikely to be a good one.

 

But if we carry on as is we risk the economy will explode, but still people will be trying to throw more proverbial logs on the fire.

 

 

 

As its stands now there is no labour cost cause labour consists of walking 5 steps to an anvil.

 

 

 

I don't know...I could be doing anything in those 5 steps...not to mention the time spent banking and the time actually spent smithing. That time soon mounts up.

[stonewall337]

Without skillcapes many materials wouldn't sell, so the problem would go the other direction.

[archimage_a]

Without skillcapes many materials wouldn't sell, so the problem would go the other direction.

 

 

 

Half-baked(excuse the pun)

 

Before skillcapes many materials sold.

 

Before skillcapes Runescape was based on making a profit in GP, so materials would sell when there was a lull in the market. Added to that there would not be the massive amounts(except maybe Maple Logs from Ect.)of resources coming into the market everyday, so the chances are someone, somewhere will eventually need what you produce.

 

 

 

Skill capes are a lot like the Gold Standard...It are a sign of a prosperous trading system, but if the system is not prosperous enough to start with then it will fail. Sort of like building the third floor before you build the first.

[Faiylen]

Personally I'm in favour of skillcapes; it's nice to have a little something extra to look forward to aside from switching skills beyond each passing 99. They're definately one cause for people to keep on playing so that's a good thing. But there are some disadvantages too - for one, they put pressure on people to get a skill to 99. Nobody should HAVE to get a 99, but I'm guessing many people do because they feel left out without a skillcape.

 

 

 

Another thing is that for some reason some people see skillcapes as a necessity once you're over a certain combat level. I know level 120s without 99s, and there's nothing wrong with that - maybe they just prefer balancing their combat stats slowly to going for a single 99 for the sake of one skillcape. And in theory, it's possible to be level 137 without a 99, so what's the problem with not having one at 110, 120 or even 130?

 

 

 

Then of course there's making the more popular 99s look easier and less respectable than they are. Take 99 cooking for example - people might assume that this is a very easy 99 to get, just because they see the cape a lot more often than most others. Yes it is more easy than most 99s, but it's still not EASY as such. Cooking itself is easy, that's true, but 99 isn't - all 99s take an extreme amount of patience and dedication.

 

 

 

Then of course, there are the show-offs. I'm sure you've all seen them. Basically, they boast about their 99s to make others feel insuperior to them. I'll give an example; two people are fletching, and one asks the other his fletching level. The player responds, say, 87, and the first player responds - "Nice, 99 here" and puts on their skillcape. Or player 1 might simply walk up behind player 2, whom they have never met, and do their fletching emote. I just find this really spiteful and cruel, and this is one big disadvantage of skillcapes.

 

 

 

Of course, there are advantages. As I said, I find them to be a nice little something to look forward to after each 99, and in addition the bonuses are pretty good compared to most other capes. But I think that all in all, the disadvantages pretty much outweigh the advantages. Just my thoughts. :thumbsup:

[quelmotz]

Personally I'm in favour of skillcapes; it's nice to have a little something extra to look forward to aside from switching skills beyond each passing 99.

 

 

 

But I think that all in all, the disadvantages pretty much outweigh the advantages. Just my thoughts.

 

 

 

So do you think skillcapes are advantageous or disadvantageous, overall?

 

 

 

Without skillcapes many materials wouldn't sell, so the problem would go the other direction.

 

 

 

I will not put people who give one sentence answers into the "advantageous/disadvantageous/half-half" list. Why should they be put into the list anyway? Only if you back up your statements/opinions properly. And don't argue about this - this is my thread and this is the debate club "for players who want to participate in serious debates and discussions". One word/one sentence answers aren't "serious".

[Salvette]

When your weapon is worth less than your food, something's wrong.

Extremely true, but as demonstrated above the system cannot be tackled as it is. Like anything which fails to do good it is extremely difficult to fix the problem...take education for example:

 

'We have generations who can read, but do not know what to read.'

 

How do we fix that problem? There is not the chance to fix that problem and the trashy books have already been published, so will continue to be read even if they are somehow fixed.

 

The same is true for the RS economy...

 

Now that everyone has 99 this that and the other there is no way to turn the clock back, to fix the markets.

 

Any sweeping solution will lead to a completely new system, and it is unlikely to be a good one.

 

But if we carry on as is we risk the economy will explode, but still people will be trying to throw more proverbial logs on the fire.

 

Aye, quite right. It's far too late to do anything about this, and there's not much that could be done, even if Jagex didn't care about keeping the number of players they have now. Nobody is actually doing anything wrong, it's just that so many people are doing things that aren't wrong that that which was not wrong becomes wrong.

 

 

 

Oh yes, I forgot to answer the original question. :lol: Yes, I like skillcapes. They're a good thing to have, the only problem lies with the players, as usual. I recognise that there's a problem, but I wouldn't want my skillcape taken away because there are hundreds of thousands of people not playing in the spirit of the game. They're metagaming, trying to get a certain cape because it's easy to get and it's worth the (comparatively) small amount of effort they've put in to get it. Changing the skillcapes wouldn't solve anything at this point, I'm afraid.

[quelmotz]

When your weapon is worth less than your food, something's wrong.

Extremely true, but as demonstrated above the system cannot be tackled as it is. Like anything which fails to do good it is extremely difficult to fix the problem...take education for example:

 

'We have generations who can read, but do not know what to read.'

 

How do we fix that problem? There is not the chance to fix that problem and the trashy books have already been published, so will continue to be read even if they are somehow fixed.

 

The same is true for the RS economy...

 

Now that everyone has 99 this that and the other there is no way to turn the clock back, to fix the markets.

 

Any sweeping solution will lead to a completely new system, and it is unlikely to be a good one.

 

But if we carry on as is we risk the economy will explode, but still people will be trying to throw more proverbial logs on the fire.

 

Aye, quite right. It's far too late to do anything about this, and there's not much that could be done, even if Jagex didn't care about keeping the number of players they have now. Nobody is actually doing anything wrong, it's just that so many people are doing things that aren't wrong that that which was not wrong becomes wrong.

 

 

 

Oh yes, I forgot to answer the original question. :lol: Yes, I like skillcapes. They're a good thing to have, the only problem lies with the players, as usual. I recognise that there's a problem, but I wouldn't want my skillcape taken away because there are hundreds of thousands of people not playing in the spirit of the game. They're metagaming, trying to get a certain cape because it's easy to get and it's worth the (comparatively) small amount of effort they've put in to get it. Changing the skillcapes wouldn't solve anything at this point, I'm afraid.

 

 

 

True. It's already too late to change skillcapes to solve the problem. It just won't work, and will only serve to instigate riots/spam/rants on the forums.

[archimage_a]

True. It's already too late to change skillcapes to solve the problem. It just won't work, and will only serve to instigate riots/spam/rants on the forums.

 

 

 

Though the same thing could have been said when the trading cap was introduced, the Rares Market was the 'Skill cape' of its time and you had a system come along which looked like it would set the price of Phats to 1 Gp.

 

It would all depend on how it was done.

[quelmotz]

bump

[quelmotz]

bump

[Sir_Kurity]

I personally think its to late.

 

 

 

We just have to accept that most 2ndary skills are goldsinks.

[quelmotz]

I personally think its too late.

 

 

 

We just have to accept that most 2ndary skills are goldsinks.

 

 

 

Yep, only seriously drastic changes can change this fact now.

 

 

 

P.S. I fixed your typo.

[Jaffy1]

To illustrate with an example, look at the prices of food, raw and cooked. This is easily done with the Grand Exchange or price check.

 

 

 

As you can see, the prices of raw food is always higher than the prices of cooked food, sometimes by a large margin, as shown in the example of swordfish and lobster.

 

 

 

This doesn't make any sense, and it devalues the skill of cooking (or any other processing skill) itself. There is simply no point in training cooking and cooking foods, as you will be losing money by putting more effort into a skill.

 

 

 

 

 

The logic in this is flawed. Of course I don't know how long you've been playing RuneScape, but for the past 5 years, raw fish has been more expensive than cooked. Therefore that argument is invalid. Other than that I'd also like to comment on your point that training cooking is a waste of money.

 

 

 

In fact, cooking is not a bad skill, because it is not required to actually buy raw fish to level the skill. This, also doesn't make it a bad skill. Perhaps you'd do well to look beyond the surface...

 

 

 

To answer the question, I believe skill capes are advantageous. They have good stats, mostly look good and their emotes are a wonderful reward for the effort put into a skill.

[archimage_a]

I personally think its too late.

 

 

 

We just have to accept that most 2ndary skills are goldsinks.

 

 

 

To the player maybe, but to the game they are more like Gold Pipes... Since it is traded to players the money is still in the system.

 

 

 

The logic in this is flawed. Of course I don't know how long you've been playing RuneScape, but for the past 5 years, raw fish has been more expensive than cooked. Therefore that argument is invalid.

 

 

 

The major issue is that Skill-capes converted something that happened... maybe a million times a month, into something that happens 16 million times a day.

 

So the small amount of money caught in the system, which for the most part was channeled into the Rares market, was not a major issue. Where as now the money in the system devalues most anything.

[Sir_Kurity]

I remember, not sure how long ago it was when i made money by buying raw lobsters and then cooking them.

[swampjedi]

I remember, not sure how long ago it was when i made money by buying raw lobsters and then cooking them.

 

 

 

Quite true. I made a nice profit cooking sharks to 99, back in... 2005?

[quelmotz]

I remember, not sure how long ago it was when i made money by buying raw lobsters and then cooking them.

 

 

 

Quite true. I made a nice profit cooking sharks to 99, back in... 2005?

 

 

 

Sharks are kind of different because they're the food that almost all members use when pking or whatever. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

[Sir_Kurity]

So?

 

 

 

Lobsters are equivalent to sharks in f2p.

 

 

 

Also, a great deal of people use monkfish, cheap and good.

[quelmotz]

So?

 

 

 

Lobsters are equivalent to sharks in f2p.

 

 

 

Also, a great deal of people use monkfish, cheap and good.

 

 

 

Ok, ok, I said CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, I'm not a p2p player... :roll:

[nerdboyxxx]

Well, they are only disadvantageous on the easier skills, like cooking for example. The ability to "buy" a skill makes it easier, as you don't have to go out there and gather the materials yourself. But, for other skills that are hard to achieve like gathering skills, possibly prayer, smithing, etc. skillcapes are rather nice.

[archimage_a]

Well said.

 

 

 

I think the debate can be concluded with the words: Skill capes have advantages and disadvantages.

 

The disadvantages largely outweight the advantages when view on a whole game basis

 

BUT

 

The advantages largely outweight the disadvantages on a personal level.

 

 

 

AKA its good when it happens to you, but when it happens to everyone else, it is ruined.

[quelmotz]

Well said.

 

 

 

I think the debate can be concluded with the words: Skill capes have advantages and disadvantages.

 

The disadvantages largely outweight the advantages when view on a whole game basis

 

BUT

 

The advantages largely outweight the disadvantages on a personal level.

 

 

 

AKA its good when it happens to you, but when it happens to everyone else, it is ruined.

 

 

 

Yep, this is basically everything we've been debating about.

[Cptbaker08]

Well, they are only disadvantageous on the easier skills, like cooking for example. The ability to "buy" a skill makes it easier, as you don't have to go out there and gather the materials yourself. But, for other skills that are hard to achieve like gathering skills, possibly prayer, smithing, etc. skillcapes are rather nice.

 

Just because its buyable doesn't mean its easy. 99 fm/cook/fletch/herblore (yes even herblore)/constructions (this to) are all hard to do. Even if you have the money to buy them doesn't make them easy. Having to click over and over again to get 99 fm/herb/con is terrible imo. TBH i think 99 cook/fletch is easier then the others i listed as they can be clicked once and a whole inventory is done. However I'm still waiting for a burn-x/clean-x/mix-x/build-x before i plan on getting those 99 lol.

[nerdboyxxx]

I'm kinda half-half on this one. I'll go through why.

 

 

 

People were getting 99 skills before capes came out, either because they loved the skill, were making money, or wanted bragging rights. That was always going to happen. But with the release of skillcapes, more and more people are rushing to get one, because it SHOWS people you have 99. Honestly, before skillcapes came out, if you had 99 Runecrafting and said it, people would just go "stop lying noob" and laugh at you. The same would apply to any other skill.

 

 

 

Once skillcapes came out, people had a reason to achieve level 99. Of course, they wouldn't want to spend a year on "Runecafting". Oh no. They had to go for the "easy" skills such as fletching or cooking. This causes the prices of the finished product, and the materials required to make them, to almost cross paths. The goods required to make the finished product rise in price as everyone buys, and the price of the finished product falls as people start to sell (exactly why raw food is more expensive than cooked food). So, one plummets, one rises, and eventually the raw materials end up costing more.

 

 

 

While some profit can be made from 99 Fletching if you make yew longbows, making magic longbows can be just as expensive as cooking, costing almost 5M from 85-99. Some could say this isn't anything to do with the race for a skillcape. Of course it is. People want the fastest route, so they make magic longbows instead of yew longbows, spending that 5M to get there "achievment" quicker.

 

 

 

Now, most of what I have said is negative. Now here comes the positive. Those who achieved 99 Runecrafting, Fletching, Cooking, Strength, Slayer, Thieving, etc. who didn't do it "just for the cape" still have the fulfillment of getting the skill to 99, but the cape allows them to show others there achievment. You'd be surprised how many people actually say "nice cape" to me despite it been an untrimmed fletch :)

 

 

 

Im my personal belief, the negatives outweigh the positives, but in the end I can't relly make up my mind. I achieved a 99 that I enjoyed, and I'm getting it to 25M exp as well. I'm proud of my achievment, and I'm proud I got one of my favourite skills to that "holy grail" that is 99. But, I didn't do it for the cape. In the end, those who didn't do it for the cape, but did it for the achievment, are the ones who should wear it with pride.

 

 

 

EDIT: Forgot I posted here ages ago :? well this post is a bit more constructive :)

[quelmotz]

Now, most of what I have said is negative. Now here comes the positive. Those who achieved 99 Runecrafting, Fletching, Cooking, Strength, Slayer, Thieving, etc. who didn't do it "just for the cape" still have the fulfillment of getting the skill to 99, but the cape allows them to show others there achievment. You'd be surprised how many people actually say "nice cape" to me despite it been an untrimmed fletch :)

 

 

 

Honestly I think they just say "Nice cape", and immediately after say: "Emotez pl0x!!" :roll: