I don't get it...

[fenrir321]

Abandon hope all ye who fear long threads.

 

 

 

I'm just going to say it plain and simple: this is a rant about the tip.it rants forums, not the rsof rants or even the rsof in general.

 

 

 

While killing time over the summer, nothing topped the charts more so than reading the rants here. I became [more] knowledgeable of certain posters and obtained a reputation of them. In fact, I can sometimes get the gist of the post simply by looking at who posted it. But that facet only possesses a small percentage of how I "know" what's going to be posted.

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong; when Rachet replies, I can almost smell the logic hammer as it's white-hot off the forge ready to pound and melt some rants. He's just one of the posters who I can identify by simply reading the content. (What's kind of funny is I know more people by their sigs than their actual names. So I know more than I may let on).

 

 

 

But the point I'm trying to make: the responses of several posters are actually quite shallow. Not to offend anybody, but here's how I see it: A thread is simply a discussion on a said topic. When people post, there's almost an automatic triage of the "subject".

 

 

 

1. The thread is a "good" one. It warrants opinions and is simply, "I like rock, you like pop."

 

2. The thread is an "ok" one. It warrants things along the following: "you should have known better," "You'll do better next time," "now you know," "that's life, "[cabbage] happens," etc. An example would be ranting about the actions of someone online.

 

3. The thread is "bad". Its logic is flawed and warrants extensive logical conversation.

 

 

 

The problems I see:

 

1. is almost on-existent in discussion on a rants forum; thigns like these should be in the general discussion.

 

2. is one of those, "look, you don't need comfort on an online game." I really don't like being harsh, but seriously, if you are ranting about how a person booted you off "your" world in a slayer task by using a cannon just for the sake of ranting, you are taking up space and time spent reading other rants. A better worded thread would be: "Is it right to boot people off?" Complaining about actions of other people is rather pointless seeing as you will never see them again most likely both in game or in real life; turn it into a constructive argument.

 

3. is just ugh. Anyone who has been on this forum for a fairly long time has read the eatrunearrow rant, "Once a great game. A story/Rant for veteran players." I applaud the logicians trying to smack logic and tear the rant apart. But is there really any point? Any time it has been revived it is a response simply rehashing concepts that have been said. If the person is too lazy to look over at least a few pages of the argument, then most like they can't hold a good discussion and wouldn't be worth anyone's time. Not to be inflammatory, but the only difference between repeating the counterargument a tenth time and complaining about the 07 updates is that the former has a small purpose while the latter has none at all.

 

 

 

The fourth problem is that posters will say almost the exact same thing on the respective triage:

 

1. "Sweet, I so support"/"nope, don't like it"

 

2. "It's ok; it's not your fault"/"Meh, just get over it"

 

3. "dude, Jagex phails, rite?"/"You're wrong because of xyz"

 

 

 

As a poster, surely you guys would like to see something different, right? Regardless if someone likes book X, reading book Y, book Z, and book W that has nearly the same plot as book X would leave the reader bored.

 

 

 

What I'm really trying to ask is why do we give in to cliches? I'm guilty of this as well. A lot of the time I read the OP and then respond without really reading the last response. I know it could simply be laziness, but surely there's more to it. In fact, when we know that we are reading a thread that's ranting about something that we've read almost five times in the last month, why do we bother posting in the first place? It's almost like feeding a troll. I'm not saying what's going on here is a bad thing, I'm just wondering why do we settle for stale or rehashed threads? Why can't there be something fresh at least a few times every couple of days? Isn't that what we're ranting to Jagex about, stale content? #-o

 

 

 

 

 

If you want to point out any flaws in my logic, feel free to do so; I'm always happy with criticism (as long as it's not inflammatory ;) )

[Harakiri]

I do agree with you. I see this like you do, rants are easily divided into three categories, the third (the rant full of flaws) being the most prominent and the one that usually ends up with the biggest discussion, flame wars, so on and so forth. I can also identify people by their siggies and get an idea of what they are going to say. Quel, Canadian, Omali, most of the major posters on the TIF rants are easy to tell apart.

 

 

 

Some things I hate are short, one sentence responses like "I agree with OP". I think if you are going to lend yourself to the discussion at hand you should flesh out why you agree or not, add a bit more to the conversation then add to your post count. I know debate is the more serious discussion, but I do believe that the rants should also display a lot more that we care. By writing a one sentence flame/agreement/disagreement, you lend nothing to an argument or anything. You are like the guys on the sidelines during a fight at school yelling random things at the combatants. Instead, why not join in the combat known as ranting?

 

 

 

Next thing I am getting more annoyed by is this little warzone that has started up over the summer. Canadian Smurf and Quelmotz are the two I am speaking of (I am not afraid to name names, this is a serious discussion on the subject of this forum and I think people should know how others think of them). I have actually defended both parties, but I still feel there is no winner. The war has gone on with Canadian playing with the fire, mocking Quel, trying to start something, and then Quel continues on and it has gone on long enough. If I were a mod I would have been much stricter on those two and their flames because most of the time they were off topic and were destroying perfectly good threads.

 

 

 

Another thing that's beginning to annoy me is the Wildy rants. December 2007 was more then a year and a half ago and this little thing continues. I seriously think that all the Jagex haters or people who continue to complain do not belong on a Runescape fan site to rant about old news and rant about how great the old days were. I think it's stupid and we have heard the cries enough. I want to see less JAGEX SUX and more constructive rants on newer problems.

 

 

 

The rants forum (this only happens occasionally) also is prone to the troll and these are the people who can't put together a logical rant and curse you out when you tell them what's wrong with their piece. That is a trend that also needs to stop because we are here to share opinions, not start a huge cuss war when we are shown the problems with the piece we have written.

 

 

 

The rants forum does need to change, it is bad when I know what to expect on a forum, I think rants is the only one I can wake up a week from not seeing it and say "Well there are these rants here, this person is starting a flame war..."

 

 

 

Also, I work really hard to smith the logic hammer so I am glad people appreciate it :D Thanks!

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Personally, I think the Rants forum gets confused for the Debate forum. If people recognized the Rants for for what it is, then maybe they'd let more stuff slide and perhaps let their buttholes unpucker.

 

 

 

But hey, that's just me.

[Omali]

Personally, I think the Rants forum gets confused for the Debate forum. If people recognized the Rants for for what it is, then maybe they'd let more stuff slide and perhaps let their buttholes unpucker.

 

 

 

But hey, that's just me.

 

 

 

I find it more comfortable puckered, but I appreciate the concern.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Personally, I think the Rants forum gets confused for the Debate forum. If people recognized the Rants for for what it is, then maybe they'd let more stuff slide and perhaps let their buttholes unpucker.

 

 

 

But hey, that's just me.

 

 

 

I find it more comfortable puckered, but I appreciate the concern.

 

 

 

Really, I wasn't aware you were a Republican.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[i couldn't decide between calling you a Republican or a Christian, lol]

[fenrir321]

Personally, I think the Rants forum gets confused for the Debate forum. If people recognized the Rants for for what it is, then maybe they'd let more stuff slide and perhaps let their buttholes unpucker.

 

 

 

But hey, that's just me.

 

I believe you said in an earlier thread that the rants forum is simply for "Ranting" and not "debating". Correct me if I'm wrong. If that were true, then the rants forum would be nothing more than a pillow that you would scream into. And if you really didn't care on how you expressed your frustration, then you wouldn't be on here saying how "you guys need to chill" and would be instead screaming into a pillow. Of course, if you didn't have a pillow to scream into the first place, you might want to think about why you're playing runescape...

 

 

 

That slight impetus aside, what you're saying also self-contradicts itself. A forum is a physical or non-physical place in which people communicate or share their ideas. The "rants" title is just that, a title that tells what kind of threads are welcome here. Screaming into a pillow or venting frustration is not communication. Therefore, the rants forum is not for venting frustration alone. In fact, if it were, then rants forums would be single-player, phased instances where you couldn't see anybody, nobody could read what you wrote and vice-versa, and any and all words you typed would be free of judgment from another person.

 

 

 

Basically, writing something on Word and then deleting it after you finish.

 

 

 

The rants forum is not simply for venting. I believe the name is a small misnomer. The debate forums and the rants forum have similar kinds of discussion, but the debate has the discussion to a different degree. See? The difference is not in the "kind" like General discussion to off-topic, but the "degree" like unlocked announcement threads on the rsof and the recent updates forum.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

People debate the point of a rant. Which is kinda dumb. The thing that irks me is that people get upset at your ranting and then debate the points of said rant as if we were discussin something, which we're not.

 

 

 

A rant is to vent frustration, now if the rants forum isn't about that, then they need to rename the thing.

 

 

 

And yes, it basically is a pillow for you to cry into. But after that, it's used to whine, moan, and complain about things in Runescape you don't like. Wheter or not people agree with it.

[fenrir321]

People debate the point of a rant. Which is kinda dumb. The thing that irks me is that people get upset at your ranting and then debate the points of said rant as if we were discussin something, which we're not.

 

 

 

A rant is to vent frustration, now if the rants forum isn't about that, then they need to rename the thing.

 

That's why I said it was a misnomer, but as I said, the name is contradictory, since ranting in of itself gives no discussion. An argument that biased is not a rant in so many words.

 

Here's the difference:

 

 

 

"Jagex phails; dey n00bz"

 

Nothing good out of this at all, which is what a lot of rants are like.

 

 

 

"Jagex is not doing well because of..." and list the expectations.

 

Some expectations are unrealistic, some are warranted, but they give discussion unlike the above.

 

 

 

And again, if you're going to rant simply for the sake of ranting, then go on Word and type to your heart's content. By simply typing on a forum to "Rant", you are fishing for other people's praise in most cases i.e. COMMUNICATION. And if you're typing something that should be on word and not read in front of other people, then typing it on the internet is just like placing your hand on a hot stove.

 

 

 

Now, there's the argument of who has to leave: the people who want discussion, or the people who want to vent. Well, in my reasoning, you can scream into a pillow by yourself. Someone cannot communicate with themselves unless they have a split-personality (which in most cases, only one persona is active at a time anyway.) So in pure practicality, I believe the people venting just for the sake of venting should leave unless they are willing to bring up a good discussion.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

I still contend there's a difference between discussion/communication and debating. As far the misnomer, maybe there wouldn't be that misnomer if that wasn't the description given to the Rants forum?

[fenrir321]

I still contend there's a difference between discussion/communication and debating. As far the misnomer, maybe there wouldn't be that misnomer if that wasn't the description given to the Rants forum?

 

Dictionary.com

 

 

 

Discussion- an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate.

 

 

 

Debate -

 

1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.

 

2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.

 

3. deliberation; consideration.

 

 

 

Therefore, by definition, discussion ~ debate with the difference being degree.

 

 

 

Also from dictionary.com:

 

Forum:

 

1. the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people.

 

2. a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion.

 

3. an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.

 

4. the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome.

 

 

 

Vent (intransitive verb as the title "rants forum" suggests) -

 

verb (used without object)

 

13. to be relieved of pressure or discharged by means of a vent.

 

14. (of an otter or other animal) to rise to the surface of the water to breathe.

 

 

 

Now, if you change the word to a transitive verb, you can say, "I vented my opinion," which gives way to communication. However, you can also vent your anger/sadness/happiness/etc. Doing so is not communication because:

 

 

 

communication -

 

2. the imparting or interchange of thoughts, opinions, or information by speech, writing, or signs.

 

 

 

Communication requires two way traffic to order to be communication. Venting anger is not communication (unless you want to argue that my venting of anger is "communicating" with your venting of anger, which means I would have the right to flame and tear up any rant with ire at will, which you say is wrong.)

 

 

 

So, the above definitions have said three things: debate ~ discussion. Forum = a place for discussion. Rants =/= discussion.

 

Therefore, rants forum is an oxymoron like "low in sodium salt sticks" is an oxymoron. However, since an oxymoron is "a figure of speech by which a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect, as in 'cruel kindness' or 'to make haste slowly,'" and "rants forum" is self-contradictory, it's a misnomer.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Fine, poor choise of words. Rants should be an informal debate while the Debate section can be serious. My point is that people still confuse the two because they're way too serious in here. Mmmkay? :

[fenrir321]

That's exactly what people are doing. Sometimes people are too serious, but other times people are just venting and not being serious enough.

 

 

 

And btw

 

[Me_Hate_Libs]

How did you know I love psychopathic cats?

[fenrir321]

I had a hunch.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

You know I just can't resist some [kitty] that's gonna end up leading me into a whole lot of trouble.

 

 

 

Still talking about cats people. 8-)

[Harakiri]

Oh the good ol' rants forum, the only place you can find the word "unpucker" and "buttholes" used together in a reply.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Oh the good ol' rants forum, the only place you can find the word "unpucker" and "buttholes" used together in a reply.

 

 

 

Yes well some people in here are total tight [wagon]. So unclench and relax. 8-)

[Harakiri]

Oh the good ol' rants forum, the only place you can find the word "unpucker" and "buttholes" used together in a reply.

 

 

 

Yes well some people in here are total tight [wagon]. So unclench and relax. 8-)

 

 

 

If we were tightening that much then we would probably be crapping ourselves by now...

[All_Is_Great]

I like to think that the dec 07 updates was bad. What's wrong with that?

[fenrir321]

I like to think that the dec 07 updates was bad. What's wrong with that?

 

You have a right to feel what you want, think what you want, and have a choice. And I'm sure EVERYBODY thinks the updates were bad, even Jagex.

 

What's arguable is if they were necessary.

 

 

 

And even if you argued that they were not necessary, what really irks some people is the lack of logic or cohesive arguments. If you can bring up a good point that says that the updates were not necessary (which I highly doubt you will, but it's still possible) then your argument would be different from the other ten million others that merely cried and had no logic.

[Zierro]

1. The thread is a "good" one. It warrants opinions and is simply, "I like rock, you like pop."

 

2. The thread is an "ok" one. It warrants things along the following: "you should have known better," "You'll do better next time," "now you know," "that's life, "[cabbage] happens," etc. An example would be ranting about the actions of someone online.

 

3. The thread is "bad". Its logic is flawed and warrants extensive logical conversation.

 

 

 

That's weird. I always found the threads with the most logically deficient posts to be the best ones. :lol: When everyone agrees or comes to the consensus of "to each his own" it does get quite boring. I enjoy threads where there is a potential to argue about an objective truth, but... to each his own.

 

 

 

What I'm really trying to ask is why do we give in to cliches? I'm guilty of this as well. A lot of the time I read the OP and then respond without really reading the last response. I know it could simply be laziness, but surely there's more to it. In fact, when we know that we are reading a thread that's ranting about something that we've read almost five times in the last month, why do we bother posting in the first place? It's almost like feeding a troll. I'm not saying what's going on here is a bad thing, I'm just wondering why do we settle for stale or rehashed threads? Why can't there be something fresh at least a few times every couple of days? Isn't that what we're ranting to Jagex about, stale content? #-o

 

 

 

Very nice point. I'm getting sick of the same old as well. Sometimes I catch myself repeating the same things over and over again, so I revise it, use a different approach, throw in new words, and just try to overcome the monotony. It's great to deviate away from the customary and go down your own unique path - makes things a lot more fun.

 

 

 

I applaud the logicians trying to smack logic and tear the rant apart. But is there really any point?

 

 

 

Of course there is. I see debating as a skill, much like playing guitar or doing sports. You get better. Practice makes perfect. I've seen it with myself and I've seen it with many other posters. I think it's safe to say that my opinions on certain subject matters have much more credence than they did before I discovered TIF. You learn a lot from fighting on the internet. :P

 

 

 

PS: Just because there is a Debate Forum doesn't mean we shouldn't be allowed to debate on other forums. Contrived debates suck to the highest degree anyway.

[Ralph]

Personally, I think the Rants forum gets confused for the Debate forum. If people recognized the Rants for for what it is, then maybe they'd let more stuff slide and perhaps let their buttholes unpucker.

 

 

 

But hey, that's just me.

 

+1 to te butthole part.

[quelmotz]

According to some people, my posting style is unique and easy to tell apart...but I can't see how, under normal circumstances. Look at all my recent posts. Most of them aren't flame bait or illogical crap.

 

 

 

On topic, I agree with your point of view. It's easy to tell people apart. Most of the major posters here I know quite well, their characteristics, posting style, etc.

 

 

 

So the three types of people in this forum:

 

1. The trolls and the people that post a lot without much crappy posts. Probably a significant portion of the population here.

 

2. The newbies and idiots that post crap. Enough said. A huge percentage of the population.

 

3. The in-between type. They aren't idiotic, but they don't post very often so I don't know them very well.

[fenrir321]

According to some people, my posting style is unique and easy to tell apart...but I can't see how, under normal circumstances. Look at all my recent posts. Most of them aren't flame bait or illogical crap.

 

Well, like I said, I usually tell who by simply looking at their sig. Even if the person changes the sig, the "style" is similar. For example, when Makoto changed his sig from this air, sky blue riddled with clouds to a fiery storm with the dude having black and not white hair, I could still tell it was Makoto. Don't know how, but I just could.

 

edit: another example was with Zeirro above; I didn't know he changed his avatar to Moe (ftw :D) since I'm used to the monkey with the excessively long nose, but I knew it was him for some reason :-k

 

 

 

And even if you don't have a signature "flame bait" like eatrunearrow or black/white logic hammer like Rachet, some characteristics like small paragraphs, lists, excessive space between paragraphs, and certain idiosyncrasies (not that you have these or are limited to this list) can define an author. I personally use lots of parenthesizes, something I've got to get away from when writing a paper :wall: .

[Zierro]

I personally use lots of parenthesizes, something I've got to get away from when writing a paper :wall: .

 

 

 

That's how I am with commas. They're so damn convenient though.