EDIT: Finalized Version! - Gaming\processing PC\server build

[compfreak847]

I know I said I'd n ever post on TIF again, but this is tech & computers, not RS related forums so it doesn't count :

 

 

 

So anyway, I've been doing fairly well financially lately, and I want to reward myself with a new desktop PC. I got some good input from you TIFers on my last desktop build, so I thought I'd try it again.

 

 

 

The background:

 

This is going into my server room as my new main computer. The wife demoted me to just one room, so I have to cram a server rack and 7 desktop PCs into one moderately sized room. A 5000w AC unit runs 24\7 to cool it, so temps aren't a problem and it remains 18-20c ambient year round. I want this computer to last a long time as a sharepoint\exchange\Active Directory (yes, I know I don't need AD running in a 5-user environment, but I need to remain familiar with the latest versions :lol: ) server, so the emphasis is on cooling. I will be doing a no-case design. The motherboard will be on blocks raised off the floor with a fan blowing on them; a 2 fan push-pull CPU cooler & the GPU fan will be the only other active cooling components. This PC will be used for gaming\hash cracking etc. (and yes, playing Runescape :-w ), so it has to have a lot of power. I plan on OCing the CPU to 4.0 Ghz, and try to up the ram a bit too. The GPU will be overclocked as far as I can while remaining stable; it (and the RAM) has a lifetime warranty, so I'm not too worried about killing it.

 

 

 

Upgradability is a big part of this. I will be adding another GTX 295 in the near future, with another one coming after that if nVidia works out the bugs in its tri-sli configuration. I will also be adding another 2 Vertexs to the RAID0, and possibly another 2 for a total of 6 (screenshots of 2.5 GB\s+ throughput on the forums make me jealous) on the ICH10R. I think the 1000w Corsair can handle it, it's essentially the 'best of the best' in terms of voltage stability under extreme (994) watt loads, and a step up to a 1200w PSU would mean a lot more money and lower quality PSU.

 

 

 

Monitors will be upgraded as well; I eventually want to run a 4 monitor set, but I'm waiting for the prices on 30" H-IPS panels to drop (No WAY am I spending 4,000+ on a monitor setup).

 

 

 

The only thing I don't like about this build is that the P6T only has 1 Gigabit Ethernet port; the Rampage II has 2, but costs a lot more. I run a 100 down\25 up fiber connection over my home ethernet that also carries server (exchange, AD etc.) data, and I have a second network for distributed video rendering with Vegas 9. I can add it in with a PCI card, but it's not as handy.

 

 

 

Current setup (Prices represent complete cost; shipping for doorstop delevery, tax, and rebates are included):

 

 

 

Please note that I am also strongly considering buying a Radoen HD 5870 x2 when it comes out in a week or two, then adding on a cooling block when that comes out (hopefully a month-month and a half) and installing it myself. It'll cost about $150 more then the GTX 295, but DX11 & various other features + the supercharged hardware seem to be well worth the wait.

 

 

 

Any suggestions\comments\concerns\advice etc. are greatly appreciated. Thanks for looking, and please read the whole thing before posting :P

 

 

 

Update:

 

OK, so after having spent several weeks researching and posting on this and other forums, I think I've decided on a final build (coincidentally, it's now more then 1,000$ above what I was originally planning to spend. Ahh, the downsides of posting on computer forums :XD:

 

 

 

I decided against getting a HD5890; it'll still be considerably slower then a GTX 295 WC Overclocked and won't have the water cooler for months. Plus, there are far more applications that take advantage of nVidia GPU processing vs. ATI\AMD, and since I'll be doing a lot of hash cracking\video rendering I'll want the 100x speedup of the GTX 295 vs. quad-core i7.

 

 

 

So, without further ado, here's the setup:

 

 

 

 

 

 

And details on the cooling build:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, advice\comments\better bargains\deal breaking things I overlooked etc. etc. is appreciated. I've researched everything VERY extensively, so if anyone has questions about why I picked something feel free to ask :)

[Sbrideau]

I don't know if they fixed it, but Seagate had a firmware bug (or something like that) that limited the performance of the drive or something on their 1TB+ hard drives, but that's if I recall correclty. I'd go with WD 1TB drives as they corrected the bug much a very long time ago just to be safe.

[compfreak847]

The bug was corrected in the 7200.12 (which I'm getting). They can easily hit 115 MB\s throguhput non-raid, which is very impressive for a 76$ 1TB drive. The WD Green drives are considerably slower as well as more expensive, and the Black editions are almost identical but 30$ more expensive. Since it's just data storage, I don't really see a reason to spend the extra money for no real benefit. I'd rather spend that 60 on another SSD. I'm a big fan of the Vertexes

[OldJoe]

Seagate "scandal" was almost a year ago. If the log would have saved 320 events, BIOS would report it having a capacity of 0gb or not recognizing it at all.

 

 

 

GTX295, well do as you want... But i would not buy it. The new generation of cards will come out in soon.

 

CPU cooler, i'd go for Noctua U12P or Thermalrights Ultra 120 Extreme.

[compfreak847]

Not a huge Radeon fan, they run too hot and power hungry, so I'm not bothering waiting for their launch later this month The NVIDIA set of cards won't come out for several months or more, and I need this build fairly soon. Besides, once they come out the GTX295 will drop like a rock, and I can pick up SLI for cheap. It's really a beast of a graphics card.

 

 

 

As for the CPU cooler, the Megalahins has 4-5c colder temps for the same fans\thermal compound as the Noctua, and another 1-2 more over the Thermaltake. Besides, the thermaltake has slight curvature that doesn't match the 920 well, meaning I'd have to spend $19 extra for a custom lapping job. The Megahalins is currently supposed to be the absolute coolest running air cooler on the market. As I mentioned before, CPU temps are important to me, I'd like to make it last as long as I can. When I get tired of it in a year or so, I can throw it in the server rack and have another system in my rendering farm

[OldJoe]

Radeons have no problem running hot.

 

The test i read included a Q9550 stock/3.5ghz ( http://sweclockers.com/articles_show.php?id=6177&page=6 ) in which they both neck and neck. You will see different results with i7, and also depending on if they've been lapped or not. But might i ask for a link to where you read that it wins by such a big margin?

 

 

 

I'm gonna be a pissy ant and mention that Enermax and Seasonics own line is up there with Corsair. But i'm too bored to get into a hardware argument.

 

Damn i wish i had some money... Got some change? Heh. (30% of 16 - 25 year old people in this country are without a job...)

[compfreak847]

 

 

 

Couldn't find my original one, it's hard to pin down reviews with that many coolers. But it illustrates my point. And that's not OCed - I plan to push temps considerably higher then that. Better fans and cooling paste might increase the difference further.

 

 

 

Radeons have no problem running hot, but I do. I'll be doing hash cracking on the GPU, and a 100w difference 24\7 adds up to a fairly large electric bill over the course of the years, and more heat = more AC required. Assume 200w total extra, and I could be paying 100$\yr extra for those radeons, doubling the cost over the expected lifespan. That's also the reason I'm not using a Peltier cooler. Believe me, it was a hard call :(

 

 

 

As for the Corsair, virtually all reviews I've found put it at the absolute best for voltage fluctuation under heavy load - with microstsutter complaints about GTX 295 SLI and crappy PSUs, I don't want to see my voltages fluctuate. Take a look at this graph:

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's the best I'm going to get for the price. Plus, the coloring goes nice with my room layout. I like blue. I quote the review:

 

 

 

Us hardware reviewers are an odd bunch; we are blissfully jaded by the multitude of products we see and become harder and harder to impress as time goes on. However, once in a while we receive a product which is so good in every aspect that it makes even the most experienced of us go weak in the knees. For me, this is exactly what happened when I was in the process of reviewing the Corsair HX1000W. In my opinion, there is no such thing as a perfect product but this power supply is so damn close to perfection, reviewing it was an almost religious experience. Call it what you will; a breath of fresh air or maybe even a revelation, but one thing is certain: even though Corsair took longer than expected to release the HX1000W, the wait was well worth it.

 

It made me laugh :lol:

 

 

 

 

Damn i wish i had some money... Got some change? Heh. (30% of 16 - 25 year old people in this country are without a job...)

 

How old are you? I hate being a minority demographic :-#

 

 

 

Luckily I picked the right field, computer consulting has been doing well lately.

[OldJoe]

^Image doesn't show.

 

I know it is a very good heatsink. I just added two similar heatsinks for you to think about =)

 

And yes, sorry i didn't think about the heat and cost.

 

And yep, again it was just to point out that Corsair isn't the only one on top. Don't know if you knew this, but Seasonic actually makes some of Corsairs psu's (CWT makes the rest, i think my VX550 is made by them if i don't remember wrong).

 

I'm 21 (forum name more plays on my RS character lol), altho i'm studying atm.

[JoeDaStudd]

Personally I saw that list as was a bit shocked.

 

1000w is an overkill even with double everything you have there you wouldn't reach 1000w on load.

 

RAID 0 harddrives for something which needs to last is a no-no as RAID has a very high failure rate.

 

Monitor connections are questionable VGA and HDMI, but no DVI.

 

 

 

The rest is really down to personal preference.

 

 

 

But I would personally make a lot of changes and wait for a few weeks for the 5xxx series from ATI.

[Ellhound]

Looks like a great build.

 

 

 

The only thing I might change is the motherboard. If you upgrade to tri-sli 295's your going to have only 4 lanes for the last card, which is a bit low.

 

Oh and if your going to go insane on the tri-sli, go for tri-sli Asus Mars instead xD

 

 

 

Personally I saw that list as was a bit shocked.

 

1000w is an overkill even with double everything you have there you wouldn't reach 1000w on load.

 

RAID 0 harddrives for something which needs to last is a no-no as RAID has a very high failure rate.

 

Monitor connections are questionable VGA and HDMI, but no DVI.

 

 

 

The rest is really down to personal preference.

 

 

 

But I would personally make a lot of changes and wait for a few weeks for the 5xxx series from ATI.

 

 

 

Heavily OC'ed tri-sli 295's and i7? I dont think 1000w is overkill at all. Mind you, PSU's run most efficiently at around 80% of their maximum.

 

I'm currently running my i7 920 at 4.0ghz (211x19). Compared to stock my computer now uses ~150 watts extra, you can expect similar increases on the 295 OC'ing. I think if anything, the 1000w is too low.

 

 

 

RAID0 is great for performance, and hes using non-raid hard drives for storage. No problem there either.

 

 

 

I do agree with the no DVI on the monitor, that sucks. (assuming its true, I havent checked)

[JoeDaStudd]

Looks like a great build.

 

 

 

The only thing I might change is the motherboard. If you upgrade to tri-sli 295's your going to have only 4 lanes for the last card, which is a bit low.

 

Oh and if your going to go insane on the tri-sli, go for tri-sli Asus Mars instead xD

 

 

 

Personally I saw that list as was a bit shocked.

 

1000w is an overkill even with double everything you have there you wouldn't reach 1000w on load.

 

RAID 0 harddrives for something which needs to last is a no-no as RAID has a very high failure rate.

 

Monitor connections are questionable VGA and HDMI, but no DVI.

 

 

 

The rest is really down to personal preference.

 

 

 

But I would personally make a lot of changes and wait for a few weeks for the 5xxx series from ATI.

 

 

 

Heavily OC'ed tri-sli 295's and i7? I dont think 1000w is overkill at all. Mind you, PSU's run most efficiently at around 80% of their maximum.

 

I'm currently running my i7 920 at 4.0ghz (211x19). Compared to stock my computer now uses ~150 watts extra, you can expect similar increases on the 295 OC'ing. I think if anything, the 1000w is too low.

 

 

 

RAID0 is great for performance, and hes using non-raid hard drives for storage. No problem there either.

 

 

 

I do agree with the no DVI on the monitor, that sucks. (assuming its true, I havent checked)

 

Tri sli'd 295's will be obsolete before he needs sli in there.

 

RAID +0 for the OS sounds nice, but do you really want to install the OS again which would mean you'd have to install all the games and apps (even if there installed on the other they will still need the registry to work correctly, well without there all steam games and all the apps are portable versions).

 

 

 

If he has 2tb of music, videos and photos then I'll be a monkeys uncle.

 

 

 

Theres getting a system for the job and then theres spending money for the hell of it.

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

Why do you want to crack hashes? [/is-suspicious]

[compfreak847]

Why do you want to crack hashes? [/is-suspicious]

 

Enterprise server penetration testing. All white hat stuff. But the GTX 295 absolutely rips through hashes with Elcomsoft's distributed agent. I can easily break the 1 billion\sec mark on NTLM hashes, and I'm sure a SLI\dual computer setup can double that.

 

 

 

Update on the build: I found out I can get a high quality water cooling system for fairly cheap, something that'll be literally noiseless (19 db fans, 31db pump). I might wait and get the Radeon HD 5870 x2. If I can get a quality liquid block in it for 150-200 extra it would only up my total cost by 100-150$ and it appears to be significantly faster then the GTX 295, and who knows what it'll look like in SLI. Bleeding edge FTW (can you see why I wanted to oversize my PSU? Once I get started down the slippery upgrade slope I always end up at the high-end bleeding-edge jump at the bottom :-# ).

 

 

 

So anyway, I edited my 1st post with my current build + cooling system. Comment\question\advise\voice concerns \

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

Why do you want to crack hashes? [/is-suspicious]

 

Enterprise server penetration testing. All white hat stuff. But the GTX 295 absolutely rips through hashes with Elcomsoft's distributed agent. I can easily break the 1 billion\sec mark on NTLM hashes, and I'm sure a SLI\dual computer setup can double that.

 

 

 

Update on the build: I found out I can get a high quality water cooling system for fairly cheap, something that'll be literally noiseless (19 db fans, 31db pump). I might wait and get the Radeon HD 5870 x2. If I can get a quality liquid block in it for 150-200 extra it would only up my total cost by 100-150$ and it appears to be significantly faster then the GTX 295, and who knows what it'll look like in SLI. Bleeding edge FTW (can you see why I wanted to oversize my PSU? Once I get started down the slippery upgrade slope I always end up at the high-end bleeding-edge jump at the bottom :-# ).

 

 

 

So anyway, I edited my 1st post with my current build + cooling system. Comment\question\advise\voice concerns \

 

 

 

I'm getting a new hat soon, actually. I prefer the black one, which is annoying since the white one would open up plenty of good jokes. They have a gray one too, but it doesn't look very nice.

[JoeDaStudd]

Can't find any reviews of those fans (120mm coolmaster ones) so I'd stick with Scythe Flex 1200rpm.

 

 

 

Caseless systems are worse then a cased system (with a good case) for cooling.

 

 

 

I still think you need to rethink RAID 0 for the OS if your going to be running AD, exchange and doing what you want it too. I would recommend you read my first post again

[compfreak847]

Can't find any reviews of those fans (120mm coolmaster ones) so I'd stick with Scythe Flex 1200rpm.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-120 ... 347&sr=8-1

 

4 pack for 18$, 9 5 star reviews. I love Amazon reviews. But honestly, 19 DB\45 CFM name brand fans seem like what I want. That radiator is almost overkill for a 2 component system, although I'll probably end up buying a north\south bridge cooler until I get SLI. Even then, quiet works.

 

 

 

 

Caseless systems are worse then a cased system (with a good case) for cooling.

 

Not when properly ventilated. And running cabling, fitting the PSU, and fitting 2 of the largest graphics cards on the market inside anything but a horribly ugly\huge case is impossible. Besides, the bare motherboard looks cooler with liquid cooling :lol:

 

 

 

 

RAID +0 for the OS sounds nice, but do you really want to install the OS again which would mean you'd have to install all the games and apps (even if there installed on the other they will still need the registry to work correctly, well without there all steam games and all the apps are portable versions).

 

I usually reinstall windows every month on my main PC, some small issues always pop up or it just slows down overall. I've gotten fast at it, I just use a windows AIK disk and I spend ~10 minutes at the most.

 

 

 

 

If he has 2tb of music, videos and photos then I'll be a monkeys uncle.

 

I have 11.5 tb of music, videos, and photos on my file server. I've peaked at over 14 tb when doing serious video editing. I want to store my video editing locally. Video files for my last RS pking vid were just under 1.8 gb. And Usenet + 50gb blueray files + fast fiber connection with NO bandwidth limit (I set a new personal record of 7.2 tb downloaded last month - certainly not all of them movies, but I have 2 2 TB drives designated specifically for holding my rainbow tables) = epic storage usage. And I'm not a packrat - I clean out everything I can.

 

 

 

 

Theres getting a system for the job and then theres spending money for the hell of it.

 

I tend to fall into the latter camp.

 

Let me put it this way . I get a new personal PC every 1 year. My business, of which the majority hinges on my personal PC, brings in 50-80k+ a year depending on how well I do. No, it's not huge, but when compaing the cost of the machine to it it's plenty. Spending 2.5k on a good system that will give me reliable, trouble free operation isn't a big deal. Plus, I'm a gadget freak. I'm in 7th heaven when designing, building, troubleshooting, overclocking and tweaking systems like this. It's what I do :P

[compfreak847]

Considering a set of Scythe KAZE-JYUNI 1200 rpm. 69 cfm 24 dB.

[JoeDaStudd]

K glad you explained those little things.

 

 

 

The RAID 0 issue is more about downtime. Unlike a scheduled reinstall where you have time to backup any important information its bam disk dead. You'll also need to order, have it shipped then install (atleast a days down time).

 

Maybe RAID 0+1?

 

 

 

I've never seen a true review of any of there fans (ie with the dba readings, cfm and variations on the voltage) and I take amazon reviews with a pinch of salt.

 

 

 

Thats one hell of a media collection :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

 

 

The monitor is still worrying me a bit.

[compfreak847]

I'm not doing 0+1 on ssds, but I do nightly backups to the hdds and online, so I've got double and off site backup for everything important. Plus, OCZ ssds have thusfar proven themselves very, very reliable - I've hung around their forum for months, and NEVER heard of one flat-out dying.

 

 

 

I read reviews on the flex, and they live up to their claims. The moniter worried me too, but every review I could find gave glowing reccommendations.

[Ellhound]

WC Ftw :thumbsup:

 

 

 

the HK3 is the best 1366 block around atm, so good choice there.

 

microres, cheap, doesnt look like much, but it gets the job done ^^

 

For fans, I can suggest Gentle Typhoons, they seem to be the best silent fans around at the moment.

 

If you intend to get multiple graphics cards and OC+WC them aswell, you should realise thats probably not going to work all that well on a single MRC320. Atleast use push-pull fans if you are going to hook up multiple graphics cards.

[Foooman]

If you aren't going to get the Copper Heatkiller, get the LT model, not the LC. The LT has the same internals as the copper block and temperatures are withing 1* of eachother. The LC has different internals and have a 2-3* temperature difference in eachother.

 

 

 

I'd but a second radiator too if you are running the CPU and GPU in the same loop especially if you are using very low CFM fans. Then you could run your loop as Res -> Pump -> Rad -> CPU -> Rad -> GPU. Otherwise, I'd buy a second loop all together for your GPUs, especially if you plan on XFire/SLI 5870x2s or GTX295s.

 

 

 

If you have the space for it, you should use shrouds with your fans, as well as 38mm fans on your radiator. 38mm fans will provide higher static pressure to push or pull air through radiators. Good 38mm fans to consider are San Ace H1011 (hard to find, easily the best), Panaflo either low or medium speed, and Scythe Ultra Kaze's (the 3000 model clicks when undervolted). If you can only find space for 25mm thick fans, Scythe S-Flexes are good, and Yate Loons from Petra's are a cheap alternative.

 

 

 

Hydrx will also give you higher temperatures than Distilled Water and a biocide. If you want colored coolant, go with Feser 1. However, Dyes and coolant mean more stuff flowing through your blocks and pump meaning that you will have to drain your loop more often than with distilled water. If you insist on the color though, I'd highly recommend colored tubing.

 

 

 

I can second the Corsair HX1000W being a solid PSU, I've had mine running for a year now without problems. You can run two GTX295s and an i7 on an 850W PSU with no issues, the 1000W just gives you more head room for the future. Another solid PSU that I'd recommend is the Enermax Galaxy EVO 1250W.

 

 

 

I'd wait 3 days to get your GPUs too because ATI should be releasing their DX11 5800 series cards on September 10th.

[compfreak847]

I'll get another triple fan radiator to put between the CPU and gpu if I go with SLI; the cabeling is really short thanks to the no case design, the fittings are high-flow, the CPU cooler is very low resitance, and the pump is high flow rate - it should be able to handle 2x gpu, CPU, and 2 tri radiators.

[compfreak847]

 

If you aren't going to get the Copper Heatkiller, get the LT model, not the LC. The LT has the same internals as the copper block and temperatures are withing 1* of eachother. The LC has different internals and have a 2-3* temperature difference in eachother.

 

 

.8C difference at the most, and the LC has a significantly higher flow rate - something I'm going to want with a 3 component setup:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure, I could go either way at this point. Advice is appreciated.

 

 

 

 

I'd but a second radiator too if you are running the CPU and GPU in the same loop especially if you are using very low CFM fans. Then you could run your loop as Res -> Pump -> Rad -> CPU -> Rad -> GPU. Otherwise, I'd buy a second loop all together for your GPUs, especially if you plan on XFire/SLI 5870x2s or GTX295s.

 

I'm going up to higher CFM fans, the Zalman ZM-F3. I think a triple radiator can handle 1 GPU + CPU at reasonable temps, when I get SLI I'll put another one between the CPU and GPUs.

 

 

 

 

Hydrx will also give you higher temperatures than Distilled Water and a biocide. If you want colored coolant, go with Feser 1. However, Dyes and coolant mean more stuff flowing through your blocks and pump meaning that you will have to drain your loop more often than with distilled water. If you insist on the color though, I'd highly recommend colored tubing.

 

I should have been more specific - I'm getting the biocyde Hydrx, not the coolant itself. Hence the 2.99 price :lol:

 

 

 

 

I'd wait 3 days to get your GPUs too because ATI should be releasing their DX11 5800 series cards on September 10th.

 

Exactly what I plan to do. The 5870 x2 should follow shortly after those chips, if the 5870 is cheaper I'll go with 2 of them, but the cooling blocks for both would probably push the price far over what a 5870 x2 + cooling block would cost. I'll probably get a 5870 x2 when it comes out and buy & install the waterblock myself when one is released.

[compfreak847]

Bump - updated with details on finalized build.