Techy questions

[HexiledRazz]

Some of you may remember the two posts i've made in the past year about building a new computer. Well i've finally come to it, as I'll have the money in the next month. So i have a few questions, and I'm also requesting a list(I've waited until now to actually request one since technology gets outdated so fast).

 

My budget is going to be around $450, with around $500 being my absolute ceiling. It may not seem like much, but consider what I'm dealing with now is a dell precision 340, which I'm positive is over 10 years old and hasn't been reformatted for at least 5: ANYTHING is better.

 

My basic digital activities include RuneScape(Often while running iTunes and my browser; i use the downloadable client), Minecraft(Being able to handle this on far rendering distance would be a godsend), and watching streaming videos. Specifically anime on sites like anilinkz and animefreak. My current computer has no problem with this, however i am unable to watch a lot of it on fullscreen because it drops to an extremely low FPS(I imagine it's because of outdated graphics hardware). And lastly of course basic everyday internet stuff like youtube, facebook, ect.

 

Once i have it, i would be making a steam account and start spending money on games. So taking that into consideration, i would want to make sure that the build could at least handle games like this. Additionally I'd like to do some video editing with Vegas since i want to get into making RS commentaries.

 

I know i want windows 7 on it(64 bit ofc), and I'm also wondering if i could use my current optical drive instead of buying a new one. I have no clue it's exact specs compared to current models, but it serves it's purpose now and if it would save me $25~ bucks, I'll be willing to use it.

[spoiler=Picture of my current optical drive]

It's the bottom silver one. The one built into the computer doesn't even work anymore.

 

 

Also, i was told that i might be able to open up my 1TB external hard drive, and take the actual drive out of it and put it in my build for faster speeds and general ease of not having it on my desk. How hard would this be? My external is a Western Digital 1TB, and pretty much has my whole digital life on it. So i would hate to put all that at risk because i have nowhere to back it up. How do you do this and what are the risks? Is it even possible without losing the data on it? Even so, I'll still be using it to store a lot of my things on. So i don't need a huge hard drive. 200 gigs should suffice.

 

I'm also going to pull the hard drive out of my current computer(36 gigs) format it, and use it. So that makes a possible total of about 3 hard drives in the case. I'm not sure how many slots affordable cases average, but 3 would be nice.

 

A few other things: I know i want DDR3 RAM(at least 2 gigs, hopefully i can squeeze 4), i know i need to buy a static mat to assemble it on. But if i get a static mat, do i also need the bracelet? My dad had one floating around, but i don't know where it went.

 

And lastly, how much would a graphics card cost? Since most of the stuff i do is graphics-intensive, i would think i would want one. But how expensive could one get for my needs?

 

Thanks in advance for your answers. I've never built a computer before, so this is kinda' daunting for me. But i've read up on it and i think with a little help I'll be able to do it ^.^

[Sy_Accursed]

Static stuff is pointless for a one off job, the odds of you being static enough to cause damage is minute and is easily negated by touching something metal before you start working and make sure you work on a non-metal surface.

DDR3 ram you really not gonna get jsut 2 gb, in my recent shopping for pc parts ddr3 only comes in 2gb sticks in a 4gb kit; smallest solo stick is 4gb. and since you want paired ram anyway for better performance youll prob end up with 4gb and you'll want it if you intend to do intensive gaming.

Graphics cards is depends entirely on how powerful you go, for a standard mid-range one that can cope with most gaming needs probably 30 - 50 is about average price.

 

In terms of cases unless you get a mini one most tend to have 4 or 5 harddrive bays.

 

In terms of starting a build you really wanna look at motherboard first as the form-factor, number of connectors (especially sata) , ram compatibility and cpu socket pretty much define the build.

Also don't expect too much for that kinda of budget a reasonable cpu will run you 60+, decent mobos 50+ with most of the good ones in both cases being ~100.

Going for ddr3 is gonna push costs up as it costs more, the mobos that support it cost more AND most mobos that support it have high end cpu sockets.

 

Optical drive no reason it can't work, its a dvd drive so it serves the purpose.

[HexiledRazz]

Static stuff is pointless for a one off job, the odds of you being static enough to cause damage is minute and is easily negated by touching something metal before you start working and make sure you work on a non-metal surface.

DDR3 ram you really not gonna get jsut 2 gb, in my recent shopping for pc parts ddr3 only comes in 2gb sticks in a 4gb kit; smallest solo stick is 4gb. and since you want paired ram anyway for better performance youll prob end up with 4gb and you'll want it if you intend to do intensive gaming.

Graphics cards is depends entirely on how powerful you go, for a standard mid-range one that can cope with most gaming needs probably 30 - 50 is about average price.

 

In terms of cases unless you get a mini one most tend to have 4 or 5 harddrive bays.

 

In terms of starting a build you really wanna look at motherboard first as the form-factor, number of connectors (especially sata) , ram compatibility and cpu socket pretty much define the build.

Also don't expect too much for that kinda of budget a reasonable cpu will run you 60+, decent mobos 50+ with most of the good ones in both cases being ~100.

Going for ddr3 is gonna push costs up as it costs more, the mobos that support it cost more AND most mobos that support it have high end cpu sockets.

 

Optical drive no reason it can't work, its a dvd drive so it serves the purpose.

 

Thanks. That answers quite a few questions. So the main thing i should be looking for is a motherboard that is both affordable, and also supports DDR3 RAM. And it also looks like I'll be getting 4 gigs of RAM anyway since I'm shooting for DDR3. It looks like that's where most of my price is going to come from.

 

And I'm not expecting anything exceptional from the build. I'm just expecting something that actually works.

 

With my current computer, locking up and freezing is a common occurrence. Especially when running RS. If i click on a program, it takes about 3 minutes for the program to actually launch. And i struggle running more then 3 programs at a time and switching between them. Freezing is common when i do things like that(EG: Runescape, firefox, and iTunes).

[Sy_Accursed]

If you want to save money I'd look at AMD based motherboards.

AMD boards and amd cpus are generally cheaper than intel so you can get similar spec much cheaper.

Kingston and Crucial are good for cheaper ram too.

 

Motherboards I'd personally stick with Asus or Gigabyte for brand, off brand ones may be cheaper but motherboards are so delicate it's better to spend a little more and get a reliable brand.

 

But yeah you wanna look at ram compatibility to make sure you got ddr3 and if you want 3 hard-drives and a optical drive you'll need 4 internal sata connectors as a minimum

[HexiledRazz]

If you want to save money I'd look at AMD based motherboards.

AMD boards and amd cpus are generally cheaper than intel so you can get similar spec much cheaper.

Kingston and Crucial are good for cheaper ram too.

 

Motherboards I'd personally stick with Asus or Gigabyte for brand, off brand ones may be cheaper but motherboards are so delicate it's better to spend a little more and get a reliable brand.

 

But yeah you wanna look at ram compatibility to make sure you got ddr3 and if you want 3 hard-drives and a optical drive you'll need 4 internal sata connectors as a minimum

 

I've been looking at a lot of the DIY kits on newegg, and a lot of the more affordable ones have AMD motherboards. Exactly how reliable are they though?

 

And thanks for the tip on the sata connectors. I would have overlooked that personally. So i imagine those are the cables that attach the hard drives and optical drive to the motherboard? And essentially the more sockets on the motherboard, the more drives you can have hooked up to it?

[Sy_Accursed]

AMD motherboards aren't a brand as such.

It's just motherboards have to have a cpu socket.

cpu sockets are VERY specific.

The only two cpu makers out there really are intel and amd and both use their own sockets (eg intel might have socket 75 while amd has am2+); so people group motherboards as intel and amd based on which brand their socket supports.

 

So it'll be an amd motherboard with socket --- made by ----

For example my current build has an amd motherboard made by Gigabyte with the AM3 socket.

 

And yeah you pretty much summed up sata; if you have 6 internal sata ports you can have 6 sata devices. Harddrives and optical drives (cd/dvd) are all sata these days.

[lordkafei]

I will recommend Asus motherboards, I have an A8N-SLI Premium, and it has been an absolute joy. The manual is a thick bound book chocked full of diagrams & details. Their warranty service is also outstanding. My board died within 6 months and it was replaced at no cost to me. That replacement has been rock solid ever since.

 

The only bad thing I would say about Asus is that they use Realtek audio on the motherboard.

[HexiledRazz]

Thanks guys. These are the kind of answers i was looking for to further my knowledge of these kind of things. The main fear i have is buying a DIY kit, or having someone make me a list then ordering all the parts and have two of them not fit together. But learning stuff like this hopefully I'll be able to crosscheck everything myself.

 

It's just a bit overwhelming when the titles of parts on newegg are 75% numbers and letters that i have no idea what they mean. I'm learning that there are key things i have to look out for.

[Sy_Accursed]

They are just part numbers, unlike most consumer goods they don't give them a flashy name they jsut stick with part numbers.

You don;t need to worry too much about the numbers meaning beyond the full chain is your product.

[OldJoe]

Win7 64bit - 100$

Xigamtek case - 30$

WD 500gb - 43$

Asrock mobo - 55$

Gskill ddr3 1333 - 27$

XFX 450w - 55$

AMD Phenom 2 3ghz - 110$

=420$

 

Hd - Four more dollar than the 250gb version.

Psu - a lot more than you need, but it's a good piece and a good deal, also allows you to beef up the computer a bit in the future.

Cpu - Seeing as max is 500, i picked the phenom since it's a lot better than an Athlon dual core at 70$.

You could squeeze in a graphics card if you wanted to, and then actually have a good gaming pc.

Is the optical drive ide or sata?

[Guy]

and this CPU cooler (OEM CPU).

Total $498.88. That could easily go down though if you want to save a little more, I know you don't really get a lot of change from your $500 from that.

 

That's what I've come up with, you get a decent graphics card in there as well (a 5770 is like $20ish more).

[HexiledRazz]

Thanks for both the lists. They're pretty affordable, and on top of that they're over and above what i was imagining for specs. However, how much more would it be to fit a more well-trusted name motherboard of similar specs? I've had 3 people so far suggest Asus as a good motherboard, and it seems Gigabyte is also a well-trusted name. What kind of board should i look for under these names if i choose to take a list and modify it?

 

Another question i have: I know it can be a bit more maintenance up-keeping a custom-built computer. Though how much upkeep(Compared to say, a store-bought dell or something)? The main reason I'm opting for well-trusted name brands is because i would hate for my motherboard or something to give out in a year, and have to replace it. Are things like that any more common with custom built computers compared to normal ones?

 

And OldJoe, I'll open up my computer in a second and figure out the connection for the optical drive.

[Sbrideau]

A custom built desktop might last even longer than a store bought computer since you know the parts are of quality, unlike, for example, Dell, which uses quite cheap parts for their computers. Btw Dell isn't a good brand anymore and hasn't been for a few years.

 

I currently don't have the time to list one with one of the 2 brands mentioned for motherboards, but I can post one if someone else doesn't.

 

The only maintenance it needs is the same as a prebuilt computer - removing the dust periodically. You could probably speed up your current computer by removing the dust as from that picture it seems quite extreme and I'm surprise it's not overheating or turning off because of it.

[HexiledRazz]

I'm aware =P I was just using Dell as an example.

 

With that said, the reason I haven't blown out my current computer of late is simply because i've been planning on a new one. And on top of that, I've also kinda' have been purposely neglecting it's cleanliness due to the fact that if it gave out, I would have an excuse to ride my parents for a lone XD

 

I might do it now though since it's in front of me, open and disconnected.

 

Edit: After a few hours of taking things out of my computer and cleaning them, i finally was able to close it back up and boot it up. I get this strange error message now that i have to bypass. But besides that everything boots fine. Though i found out one devastating thing: All the drives in my computer are PATA. So I'll have to buy a new disk drive anyway <_<

 

Edit 2:

 

So, i've been looking over the two lists and i really like the one Guy gave me in particular. Especially the case. I like the case's design a lot better, and it would allow expansion pretty easily for a budget case. But I'm a little sketchy with the MSI motherboard, as i see a few mixed reviews about em'. Most people say to go with a Asus or Gigabyte for better reliability.

 

I've put the list together with the optical drive I'll need(Optical drives seem pretty straight forward in terms of compatibility), plus an additional sata cable I'll need to hook up my optical drive.

 

 

MOBO: MSI 870-G45 - $70

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 925 Deneb 2.8GHz - $90

RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 - $31

Video card: HIS IceQ Radeon HD 5670 - $90

HHD: Western Digital 500GB - $43

OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit - $100

Case: COOLER MASTER HAF 912 - $60

PSU: COOLER MASTER eXtreme Power Plus 500W - $40

CPU fan: COOLER MASTER Hyper TX3 92mm CPU Cooler - $20

Optical drive: LITE-ON DVD Burner iHAS124-04 - $19

SATA cable: Link Depot SATA II Cable - $4

 

The Motherboard only came with one SATA cable, so i had to add another for the optical drive. Though i have one question about it: It says SATA II cable. Is this in any way different? All i can find are cables labeled SATA II so i assumed not.

 

After all the discounts i get, and adding in shipping the build will cost me about $540~. This is a little over my budget, so i was looking for some ways to downsize it.

 

I'm really happy with the Motherboard's features, I'm just worried about reliability due to the brand. Perhaps swapping it out for a Asus or Gigabyte with similar specs would be a bit cheaper and easier on the mind?

Also, the processor is a bit on the pricey side too. But I'm sure if i swapped out the MOBO that i would choose a new processor too since the current two are a combo deal.

The last thing i think i can downsize is the graphics card. As much as i would love to have this one(The more power the better), it's just not really in my budget. Perhaps one in the 50 - 60 range?

 

Also, i hear most AMD processors come with paste pre-applied. But how can i confirm this when I'm finally set on a build and I'm ready to order?

[Sy_Accursed]

Boxed processors pretty much always come with pre-applied paste but it's rarely a very good paste and it is more like to be applied to the fan than the cpu itself.

But good paste (Arctic Silver) only costs like $5 at most so its hardly a big expense if you do decide to have some just in-case or to remove the cheap preapplied stuff in favour of better stuff.

 

Sata II is the standard, sata III is beginning to come in now as well, it just affects data transfer speeds of devices that support it but is always backwards compatible (eg a sata iii port can still run a normal sata i device, you just won't get the faster data speeds)

 

Personally I would swap out the mobo I've heard a lot of bad things about MSI including heaps of doa boards and boards where the bridge chip bits fall off and boards that short themselves out on first boot.

That cpu you aren't gonna do much cheap if you want anything remotely good as the step down in price would be to a duo-core which is kinda out-dated for desktop computing now and you'd be hardpushed to find 64-bit compatibility on any cheaper ones.

[jasignhagj]

I'm not sure about AMD, but the stock sink on my i7 came with the paste on it. I highly doubt the actual processor would come with paste on it though.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103809

This is a better CPU for the same price, as an aftermarket heatsink isn't needed.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148418

This memory is the more or less the same for $5 less

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157176

This motherboard will save you $10, ASrock is ASUS's budget brand, but their quality is good.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371045

Go for this PSU instead. Antec is one of the most reliable brands, and it's the same price as the Coolermaster one.

 

You can save $15 with these changes, plus get a faster CPU and a more reliable PSU. If you want to cut out another $25, you could go with a cheap case, but the HAF line of cases are really nice (I have a HAF 932). I'd definitely change the RAM, PSU and CPU, the motherboard is up to you.

[OldJoe]

I'm not sure about AMD, but the stock sink on my i7 came with the paste on it. I highly doubt the actual processor would come with paste on it though.

Yes, the heatsink, not the cpu, has pre-applied paste on it.

[Guy]

To get the price down, I recommend choosing products that are good, of course, but good ones that are part of a combo which can save a LOT of money, as shown in the build I produced (saving $67). Yes I probably shouldn't have gone with MSI, I recently used a similar board to the one in that list in a build and it caused me quite a few headaches.

 

edit: I was looking at getting rid of the MSI board, but most full ATX boards are much more expensive than mATX boards. If you're fine with an mATX board I will happily have a look.

[Sbrideau]

To get the price down, I recommend choosing products that are good, of course, but good ones that are part of a combo which can save a LOT of money, as shown in the build I produced (saving $67). Yes I probably shouldn't have gone with MSI, I recently used a similar board to the one in that list in a build and it caused me quite a few headaches.

 

edit: I was looking at getting rid of the MSI board, but most full ATX boards are much more expensive than mATX boards. If you're fine with an mATX board I will happily have a look.

 

mATX boards are getting pretty performant too, I have a mATX board (Asus p7p55-m) has almost all the features of a full ATX board, minus some buses. Although it wouldn't apply to this topic since it is an Intel board that works with i3, i5 or the old i7 and would probably cost more than a phenom build.

[HexiledRazz]

I'm not sure about AMD, but the stock sink on my i7 came with the paste on it. I highly doubt the actual processor would come with paste on it though.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103809

This is a better CPU for the same price, as an aftermarket heatsink isn't needed.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148418

This memory is the more or less the same for $5 less

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157176

This motherboard will save you $10, ASrock is ASUS's budget brand, but their quality is good.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371045

Go for this PSU instead. Antec is one of the most reliable brands, and it's the same price as the Coolermaster one.

 

You can save $15 with these changes, plus get a faster CPU and a more reliable PSU. If you want to cut out another $25, you could go with a cheap case, but the HAF line of cases are really nice (I have a HAF 932). I'd definitely change the RAM, PSU and CPU, the motherboard is up to you.

 

I like the look of that motherboard. I researched a bit and it seems that ASrock has a pretty good record.

However, that processor is 20 bucks more expensive then the one i currently have(Though the processor and the mobo come as a combo, so since I'm switching out the mobo I'll most likely do the same for the processor).

EDIT: I realized after carefully going over the specs that the processor was cheap because it didn't come with a heatsink. Thus why Guy listed a CPU cooler also.

 

And on top of that, I'm getting my PSU and my case in a combo deal with about a 40% discount. So i think I'll stick with those since I'm essentially getting my PSU for free.

 

Since most people are telling me that i really shouldn't go any lower for my mobo and processor as to stay current-generation, i think the only place i can downgrade is my video card. Anyone have any suggestions in the 50 - 60 range?

 

Also, how do i tell which processors will work with which motherboards?

 

To get the price down, I recommend choosing products that are good, of course, but good ones that are part of a combo which can save a LOT of money, as shown in the build I produced (saving $67). Yes I probably shouldn't have gone with MSI, I recently used a similar board to the one in that list in a build and it caused me quite a few headaches.

 

edit: I was looking at getting rid of the MSI board, but most full ATX boards are much more expensive than mATX boards. If you're fine with an mATX board I will happily have a look.

 

What exactly is the difference between a mATX and a ATX board? From what i researched myself, mATX just seems smaller. So i assume less ports and less overall power, perhaps?

[jasignhagj]

There are 2 sizes of standard mobos. MicroATX, which tend to only have 1 pair RAM sockets and 3 or so expansion ports; and ATX, which has 2 pairs of RAM sockets, 7 expansion slots, and more SATA and other ports. Of course there are other sizes, like mini-ATX, server boards, and a larger ATX which I believe is called ATX-L.

 

I'll put a new build together for you tonight or tomorrow, and see if I can combo a few things down to get it to $500.

 

One option is getting one of AMD's new llano processors, which has a HD 6550 integrated into the CPU. It won't give you the best graphics, but it could hold you over until you have some more to spend.

[HexiledRazz]

There are 2 sizes of standard mobos. MicroATX, which tend to only have 1 pair RAM sockets and 3 or so expansion ports; and ATX, which has 2 pairs of RAM sockets, 7 expansion slots, and more SATA and other ports. Of course there are other sizes, like mini-ATX, server boards, and a larger ATX which I believe is called ATX-L.

 

I'll put a new build together for you tonight or tomorrow, and see if I can combo a few things down to get it to $500.

 

Oo, alright that makes sense. As much as i would like space for additional RAM, if i need to drop some then I'm willing to. With the current build i have thought up(The one i listed a few posts back, replaced with the mobo and processor you listed) looks really good to me. Though I'm not 100% sure how to match up processors and motherboards correctly.

 

A cheaper graphics card would be nice. I personally was looking at this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102874&cm_sp=Cat_Video_Cards_%26%2338%3b_Video_Devices-_-Best_Sellers-_-14-102-874

 

But, again i don't know if Sapphire is a trusted brand.

[jasignhagj]

Don't get me started on sapphire...

 

I'm working on a build right now, I should be done in a bit.

[jasignhagj]

 

Comes in to a nice $509, plus $15 shipping if you live in Boston or Beverly Hills (I assume it's the same everywhere Continental US).

 

The Rosewill case won a tomshardware small case award, and is $10 cheaper than the HAF 912. The DVD burner is the same one I have in my build, and I've never had a problem with it. The HDD is the same, the 500gb Caviar Blue. The motherboard is a Gigabyte, a very reliable brand, but is a microATX, so you're limited to 8gb RAM and one Graphics card. The PSU is an Antec 450w, more than enough for your build, and Antec is a very reliable brand. The RAM is 2 2gb sticks, coming in at only $25. The CPU is a Phenom II x4 945, with 4 cores running at 3ghz, and includes a heatsink. Finally, the Graphics Card is an XFX 6670, a slightly improved variant of the 5670 for a cheaper price, plus a $13 combo discount with the CPU. Windows 7 is included in the build; should you choose to use Linux you can cut the cost down by $100.

 

If you want to save a bit more, you can downgrade to a Athlon x3 and save $20.

 

EDIT: I forgot to sign in, so I can't link you to a wishlist without losing the cart, so if you want the links copy this text, paste in notepad, save as whatever.html, and open it.

 

http://pastebin.com/7MBEuJpP

[HexiledRazz]

Hmm... I really like that build. The case doesn't seem too much different from the coolermaster ones i was looking at. And i like that video card; it was one of the main things i was concerned about due to my graphic-heavy activity i would be doing while still trying to keep it a budget-sensitive computer.

 

The motherboard is comforting since it's a gigabyte. As much as i would like 4 memory slots, i guess I'll have to sacrifice since I'm at the mercy of my budget.

 

Everything looks really good; i think this might be my winning setup. Thanks for the list ^.^