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Behind the Scenes: March 2013


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#121
V O R K
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If only people could learn to just say neigh to gambling.


Hello, could you please elaborate on your opinion? I can't really tell now if you are either viewing it as something good or bad. I view it as something of lower morals but isn't killing another player too ; )?

I've only seen the BTS yesterday but the gambling update was most admirable (although I must say i'm also giving them credit to atleast try and revive PVP).

Personally i'd like to see the gambling out of Players hands completely and that it's going to much resemble a real life casino: NPC-controlled. Much of the gambles that are in game now have resemblances to a real casino; flower games (blackjack), flower poker (poker), dicing (now obsolete but obvious), ... If this could be inplented in said casino with an additional -10% fee to the house from player bets this could easily turn into a good moneysink to deflate the economy. Odds are always on the house since this is gambling, some may win big but the house always wins in the end. This would rather deflate the economy and W2 Grand exchange could actually becoming a trading place as opposed of more then half of it occupied by somewhat scrupulous gambler hosts, betters and ofcourse scammers and bots. I myself, like to place a wager sometimes, is there something wrong with that? Before I staked and I pked but that has changed too much since EOC.

Anyone opposed of gambling I don't understand, you may not condone it but it will be there and as you can see in real life, it will always be there. Better to give it a place and make something good out of it then hate and dismiss it.
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#122
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legit gambling to be the first of the new skills
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#123
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legit gambling to be the first of the new skills


How could that possibly become a skill? It's going to be a mini-game, much like the Duel Arena.

#124
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legit gambling to be the first of the new skills


How could that possibly become a skill? It's going to be a mini-game, much like the Duel Arena.


The same way Dungeoneering is a skill.

#125
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legit gambling to be the first of the new skills


How could that possibly become a skill? It's going to be a mini-game, much like the Duel Arena.


The same way Dungeoneering is a skill.


Hardly. I've never got the dislike of Dungeoneering that is rampant everywhere. Why can't the navigation/raiding of dungeons be a skill in a fantasy world like RS? Seems perfectly natural to me. People have been harping on about Archaeology for years, and I think Dungeoneering is no less legitimate than that. Rather than excavating digsites and temples and what not, in Dungeoneering you're raiding dungeons. Also, I particularly like how Dungeoneering, the 25th skill, incorporates all the others before it rather nicely.

#126
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Because a dungeon concept isn't a skill. You raid/navigate through a dungeon to reap the rewards using other skills. I can't see how this is a skill on itself. They made it that way but it doesn't make sense to me.
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#127
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You chop a tree, you get woodchop xp.
You light a log, you get firemaking xp.
You complete a dungeon, you get dungeoneering xp.

I dunno, it sounds right. Castlewarring, Fistsofguthixing, Pestcontrolling doesn't.

It's also the complexity of the skill involved, the amount of aspects that are included. I feel that yes, it should be considered a skill, albeit it's a little similar to how minigames work in terms of rewards and parties, but it is a skill regardless.

It brings fun to the game and I'm fine with that.
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#128
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It brings fun to the game and I'm fine with that.

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#129
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#130
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You complete a dungeon, you get dungeoneering xp.

I think you mean you play the minigame, you get dungeoneering xp. Everything that you can do inside dungeoneering, you can do in another part of the game world without getting dungeoneering exp. It doesn't have a single defining feature other than the minigame.

I dunno, it sounds right. Castlewarring, Fistsofguthixing, Pestcontrolling doesn't.

It's not about the name, if they made a skill from playing castle wars and maybe expanded it a bit, it'd make just as much sense as a skill as dungeoneering does.

That they chose to make dungeoneering into a skill, probably for simplicity in unlocking stuff and rewards, does not mean that it's not 100% a minigame. Bigger than other minigames, yes, but still doesn't fit the characteristics of a skill.

It brings fun to the game and I'm fine with that.


Yeah, not a big deal, but given the precedent of dungeoneering don't expect all future skills to make sense either.

#131
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You complete a dungeon, you get dungeoneering xp.

I think you mean you play the minigame, you get dungeoneering xp. Everything that you can do inside dungeoneering, you can do in another part of the game world without getting dungeoneering exp. It doesn't have a single defining feature other than the minigame.

I dunno, it sounds right. Castlewarring, Fistsofguthixing, Pestcontrolling doesn't.

It's not about the name, if they made a skill from playing castle wars and maybe expanded it a bit, it'd make just as much sense as a skill as dungeoneering does.

That they chose to make dungeoneering into a skill, probably for simplicity in unlocking stuff and rewards, does not mean that it's not 100% a minigame. Bigger than other minigames, yes, but still doesn't fit the characteristics of a skill.

It brings fun to the game and I'm fine with that.

Yeah, not a big deal, but given the precedent of dungeoneering don't expect all future skills to make sense either.


Yes; why aren't we receiving dungeoneering exp from entering KBD/QBD lair, KK, KQ, DK's, God Wars Dungeon.
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#132
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You complete a dungeon, you get dungeoneering xp.

I think you mean you play the minigame, you get dungeoneering xp. Everything that you can do inside dungeoneering, you can do in another part of the game world without getting dungeoneering exp. It doesn't have a single defining feature other than the minigame.

I dunno, it sounds right. Castlewarring, Fistsofguthixing, Pestcontrolling doesn't.

It's not about the name, if they made a skill from playing castle wars and maybe expanded it a bit, it'd make just as much sense as a skill as dungeoneering does.

That they chose to make dungeoneering into a skill, probably for simplicity in unlocking stuff and rewards, does not mean that it's not 100% a minigame. Bigger than other minigames, yes, but still doesn't fit the characteristics of a skill.

It brings fun to the game and I'm fine with that.

Yeah, not a big deal, but given the precedent of dungeoneering don't expect all future skills to make sense either.


Yes; why aren't we receiving dungeoneering exp from entering KBD/QBD lair, KK, KQ, DK's, God Wars Dungeon.


Because it is not 'Dungeon-eering', it is 'Daemonhiem-eering'. By this, I mean the skill is not to go through dungeons, but your knowledge of Daemonhiem. This coming from the Jmods who made the skill.

I do always find it funny how people complain about this skill vs minigame title. Are you really saying you WANT all of our skills to be as bland as click X to receive Y? Is it really so bad to have something so advanced like DG as a skill?
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#133
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DG is hardly advanced, it's just as repetitive as other skills, it just takes longer before you realize. In the end all it comes down to is level mod and the floor layout.

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#134
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DG is hardly advanced, it's just as repetitive as other skills, it just takes longer before you realize. In the end all it comes down to is level mod and the floor layout.


There's an unavoidable element of grinding that is there, as it is in all skills; however, Dungeoneering has far more variety, from just the basic fact that every dungeon is different (as are themes), and of course there are different playing styles as to how to complete dungeons (rushing vs non-rushing). That alone makes it extremely variable and exciting. Admittedly, though, by the time I got to level 116ish it got very boring. Still, it's far more dynamic and exciting than virtually any other skill out there, which don't seem to progress much further than "Choose spot, stay there till 99", or "Choose training method and repeat till 99". Dungeoneering sort of has those principles but it extends them and is more flexible with them.

#135
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Are we really digging up this debate again?



#136
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Are we really digging up this debate again?


Well they got 07scape back they need SOMETHING to whine about now don't they?

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#137
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It's not about the name, if they made a skill from playing castle wars and maybe expanded it a bit, it'd make just as much sense as a skill as dungeoneering does.


Yes. :rolleyes:
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#138
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The reason I have trouble seeing Dungeoneering as a skill is because it is a player-skill, not a character-skill.

With other skills (character-skills) your character becomes more proficient and learns to perform the relevant tasks better. With strength, your character becomes stronger and deals more damage. With woodcutting, your character becomes more proficient at chopping trees and can chop faster or more efficiently. With hunter, your character becomes better at laying the traps just-right. Levels in these skills represent the proficiency of your character as they learn from their experience.

By contrast, Dungeoneering is a player-skill. Your character learns very little as you gain levels; instead the levels represent the learning, experience, and proficiency of the player. The contextual meaning of the word "skill" is entirely different, because it is a different entity's skill being measured. It would be like if you listed typing speed as one of the numeric specifications of your computer.
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#139
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Are we really digging up this debate again?


Well they got 07scape back they need SOMETHING to whine about now don't they?

Are you really bringing up this debate again?

#140
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I didn't mean to say that Dungeoneering was a bad piece of content, by any means. I enjoyed it a lot while I was playing and with good friends is probaby the most fun thing to do in this game for me. It was meant as a light-hearted joke, but I should probably justify it:

I just don't think it's particularly well implemented as a skill, even if the concept is sound on the most fundamental level. Despite being about delving dungeons, it's only trained within one specific dungeon which is almost entirely isolated from the rest of the game. Your skill levels matter to some extent (I say not entirely because the bulk of the content is scaled to your level), but your items don't matter at all. Levelling the skill itself provides almost no benefit aside from the ability to further train that skill more efficiently -- I think it's quite telling that I got a few noisette triangle keys from the SOF a few weeks ago and have yet to figure out any use for them at all.* The only rewards you get from the skill are items which can only be obtained with tokens which you only get from training the skill and are implemented exactly like, say, Fist of Guthix tokens. The way those rewards are costed means that, with one exception, your level in Dungeoneering is only tangentially relevant to your ability to obtain those items.

To me, until Dungeoneering level itself starts being more relevant to the main game, it's a (rather good) minigame. And I feel like it might have been better as a minigame, since I probably wouldn't then have to repeat the same floors a thousand times over in order to complete the content for the sake of balancing skill levelling.

*(If they can be taken into Daemonheim, which I haven't tried, they might be useful for unlocking floors prematurely. They could also theoretically be used to partially bypass the arcane stream necklace's level requirement, assuming you don't also need 70 dungeoneering to actually equip it, but this won't work for any other reward. Finally, you could use them to access resource dungeons, but all of those are accessed WAY below the skill's maximum level.)




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