Making a website - which program?

[____]

When I made a page for my club, I made the page and sliced it with Photoshop and fixed it on Dreamweaver with the HTML and CSS. Obviously, I did the rest HTML and CSS by hand, but it's pretty darn useful for a beginner if you actually see right away what your code is doing to the site. So Dreamweaver ftw.

 

There are limits to a wysiwyg editor.

 

 

 

Once you understand the basic concepts of HTML they lose their benifit.

 

And it doesn't take long to get to that point either.

[skelm]

To put it plain and simple.

 

 

 

Linguns still has a long way to go before he can offer advice to others about web design.

 

 

 

/thread.

[tunaboy692004]

I mainly use notepad for one reason, it is eaiser to multi task with. Dreamweaver is good, for begginers who havent got their code straight yet. But besides that, nah. Wysiwyg editors are pointless when you can save the code as .html and just refresh the page for a more accurate preview

[Evadek]

Dreamweaver, HTML is a ridiculously easy coding method to learn since it requires no logic, it's like using the console in Counter strike. Don't be a mentally challenged and use notepad, there's absolutely no advantage to using it over Dreamweaver since Dreamweaver writes the HTML out for you and gives you an updated graphical representation of what the webpage looks like which notepad or any other geek tool doesn't do.

 

 

 

It's actually funny that you don't know the advantages to writing out your own code and you're trying to boast yourself as someone who knows about web design.

 

 

 

It's funny because there are no advantages. HTML is a very very basic Markup Language. Writing all the code yourself is just time consuming. Sure it's handy if you know what the code means (which Dreamweaver helps with) but it doesn't take a genius to work out that if it says "table" then it's basically likely a table.

 

 

 

I stand by my comment that you are a [developmentally delayed] if you use notepad over dreamweaver. unless you're so poor you can't afford dreamweaver

[tunaboy692004]

So poor you cant afford it? Not to point you out directly, but about 9/10 people download a trial version of dreamweaver, and just find a serial code for it, and i highly doubt your one of the 10% of people that actually bought it.

 

 

 

Try running dreamweaver on a low resource computer and you will see why people use notepad. And if you want real experience coding, and real experience with trouble shooting you would use notepad, Why? Because it does not auto-add Ending Code, it does not order the code for you, it does not give you hints. Dreamweaver is good i admit, i use it for my php coding but thats because i set my computer up as a server, so i can run php files directly off of it. And dreamweaver allows me to do some harder projects alot eaiser then note pad does.

 

 

 

If you rely on help, instead of learning on your own, troubleshooting on your own and actually getting the real experience, you wont go very far.

[Evadek]

So poor you cant afford it? Not to point you out directly, but about 9/10 people download a trial version of dreamweaver, and just find a serial code for it, and i highly doubt your one of the 10% of people that actually bought it.

 

 

 

Try running dreamweaver on a low resource computer and you will see why people use notepad. And if you want real experience coding, and real experience with trouble shooting you would use notepad, Why? Because it does not auto-add Ending Code, it does not order the code for you, it does not give you hints. Dreamweaver is good i admit, i use it for my php coding but thats because i set my computer up as a server, so i can run php files directly off of it. And dreamweaver allows me to do some harder projects alot eaiser then note pad does.

 

 

 

If you rely on help, instead of learning on your own, troubleshooting on your own and actually getting the real experience, you wont go very far.

 

 

 

You can turn auto adding off in Dreamweaver. I understand people rip macromedia off (i did). I just didn't want to say.

 

 

 

I've never found it to be a memory hog on my system either. Dreamweaver doesn't help, it speeds processes up. Like I said, notepad offers no advantages to dreamweaver. If you wanted to make an incredibly basic page then notepad my be plausable but even then, you could still get it done quicker in Dreamweaver.

[____]

It's funny because there are no advantages. HTML is a very very basic Markup Language. Writing all the code yourself is just time consuming.

Perhaps, but when you're making dynamic pages, you can't really use a WYSIWYG editor on a single page with multiple results. It causes too much fussing around with an additional "build" page and other junk. Especially when you're writing templating systems, php and such. No benifit to a WYSIWYG editor there since it can't render php code into a visual representation.

 

 

 

Sure it's handy if you know what the code means (which Dreamweaver helps with) but it doesn't take a genius to work out that if it says "table" then it's basically likely a table.

I never limited my debate to just HTML. I know a lot of people who only use WYSIWYG editors, who couldn't write HTML by hand to get the same result. It's just drag-drop, drag-drop and whatever.

 

 

 

Unless you actively make the effort to see what your HTML does, you aren't learning anything and it'll make it a lot harder to bug test. But if you're writing your own HTML from the start, you'll know when you've made a mistake. And you aren't getting the bloat markup that a lot of WYSIWYG editors throw in.

 

 

 

I stand by my comment that you are a mentally challenged if you use notepad over dreamweaver. unless you're so poor you can't afford dreamweaver

Nothing is not legitimate proof to justifty that. And being poor has nothing to do with it. DreamWeaver, while good, isn't the best choice available. You don't need to spend a lot of, if any, money to have a good editor.

 

 

 

EditPlus 2

 

NotePad++

 

XStandard

 

TopStyle

 

 

 

For example...

 

 

 

But to make it simple:

 

A good WYSIWYG editor + text editor > *

 

 

 

But in many cases, just the text editor > *

 

You have to make sure it renders correctly in browsers eventually - might as well do it while you build.

[skelm]

So poor you cant afford it? Not to point you out directly, but about 9/10 people download a trial version of dreamweaver, and just find a serial code for it, and i highly doubt your one of the 10% of people that actually bought it.

 

 

 

Try running dreamweaver on a low resource computer and you will see why people use notepad. And if you want real experience coding, and real experience with trouble shooting you would use notepad, Why? Because it does not auto-add Ending Code, it does not order the code for you, it does not give you hints. Dreamweaver is good i admit, i use it for my php coding but thats because i set my computer up as a server, so i can run php files directly off of it. And dreamweaver allows me to do some harder projects alot eaiser then note pad does.

 

 

 

If you rely on help, instead of learning on your own, troubleshooting on your own and actually getting the real experience, you wont go very far.

 

 

 

You can turn auto adding off in Dreamweaver. I understand people rip macromedia off (i did). I just didn't want to say.

 

 

 

I've never found it to be a memory hog on my system either. Dreamweaver doesn't help, it speeds processes up. Like I said, notepad offers no advantages to dreamweaver. If you wanted to make an incredibly basic page then notepad my be plausable but even then, you could still get it done quicker in Dreamweaver.

 

 

 

There you go making bold, irrational statements again. If you seriously are of the opinion that Dreamweaver does a better job then a text editor - good on you, but don't try convincing us otherwise.

 

 

 

You're lack of knowledge led you to beleive that the only editor we meant was notepad - in no way. First of all, I'm not a pc user - would hate to be (http://codingo.net/blog/2006/03/24/why- ... dows-worldÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ/).

 

 

 

Personally, I use BBEdit for all of my web designs... Most of the formatting of text is done in CSS - This is something a WYSIWYG editor fails to deliver.

 

 

 

If you are only using WYSIWYG's to design your pages - good on you... but they sure aren't going to stack up next to the equivalent design made in a text editor.

[Guest GhostRanger]

Dreamweaver, HTML is a ridiculously easy coding method to learn since it requires no logic, it's like using the console in Counter strike. Don't be a mentally challenged and use notepad, there's absolutely no advantage to using it over Dreamweaver since Dreamweaver writes the HTML out for you and gives you an updated graphical representation of what the webpage looks like which notepad or any other geek tool doesn't do.

 

 

 

It's actually funny that you don't know the advantages to writing out your own code and you're trying to boast yourself as someone who knows about web design.

 

 

 

It's funny because there are no advantages. HTML is a very very basic Markup Language. Writing all the code yourself is just time consuming. Sure it's handy if you know what the code means (which Dreamweaver helps with) but it doesn't take a genius to work out that if it says "table" then it's basically likely a table.

 

 

 

I stand by my comment that you are a mentally challenged if you use notepad over dreamweaver. unless you're so poor you can't afford dreamweaver

 

 

 

There's no advantage to it? I mean, there's not much I can say that rick and skelm didn't say (good job guys) but maybe you don't realize that you're talking to someone who started webpage design using all the crap. I've done front page, dreamweaver, every single online free webpage builder you can do - and then I learned how to actually code. I'm talking from experience when I say there are things I can do in Notepad that you will NEVER be able to do in Dreamweaver. Tell me, how do you drag and drop a MySQL database into Dreamweaver?

[funky_nappy]

well this turned out well :) , thanks for all the help, its appreciated, but I dont really have a clue what any of you are talking about.

 

 

 

MySQL?

 

WYSIWYG?

 

syntax highlighting?

 

 

 

"it's like using the console in Counter strike" - what on earth does that mean?

 

 

 

its like you're all talking in another language :shock:

 

 

 

I have absolutely *no* idea about html or 'coding' of any form, I don't even know what html is, i've just heard it and i know its something to do with the internet.

[____]

well this turned out well :) , thanks for all the help, its appreciated, but I dont really have a clue what any of you are talking about.

haha, righteo. I'll break it down for you then...

 

 

 

MySQL?

 

WYSIWYG?

 

syntax highlighting?

 

MySQL - free Structured Query Language database management system.

 

 

 

WYSIWYG - acronym: What you see is what you get. Generally used in reference to programs where you make a product using a visual representation, like web pages.

 

 

 

Syntax highlighting - a language (like php, html, asp, etc) have tags, keywords, and such which determine how the script/file/whatever operates. Syntax highlighting essentially colours these items to make the source code more readable.

 

 

 

eg:

 

 

 

HTML - With syntax highlighting

 

 

 

 

HTML - Without syntax highlighting

 

 

 

 

"it's like using the console in Counter strike" - what on earth does that mean?

Extreme example and a rather bad one at that.

 

 

 

its like you're all talking in another language :shock:

Yea, that tends to happen a lot in this forum.

 

 

 

I have absolutely *no* idea about html or 'coding' of any form, I don't even know what html is, i've just heard it and i know its something to do with the internet.

HTML is Hypertext markup language, it is the prefered language to make websites in.

 

Basically it is a set of standards that a web browser renders into a more readable form.

 

 

 

Coding is a slang term which refers to the act of writing code (html, php, C++, etc).

[WutangFlu]

rick.. that was beautiful.. its like a rainbow... \

[meadowmont]

Here are some of the basics. (Note to the experts, please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere, Thanks!) A good way to start learning about building webpages is to look at some. Lets use the tip.it forum home page as an example. In your browser navigate to that page and click on View > Page Source (this is for firefox, it's View > Source in Internet Explorer). Here's what the first few lines look like:

 

 

 

Forum.Tip.It :: Index













</pre><table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" border="0" align="center">





 
 
 
Lets look at the first line:
 
 
 
[code]

</

[____]

In this case we can see that the page conforms to the W3C HTML 4.01 standard. W3C stands for 'The World Wide Web Consortium'. They are the ones who develop the standards for the web so that there is a consistency in the way pages are written. They also have bunches of information about web languages and standards at http://www.w3schools.com

 

1. Actually, conforms is an assumption (although I believe the page does validate against HTML 4.01 Transitional). The Doctype declartion only stipulates what standard the document is going to validate to. If it doesn't, the author needs to fix the indicated errors (use of the HTML Validator is recommended).

 

 

 

2. W3School is not affiliated with the W3C in anyway. They are not an interchangable term. If you did not mean it like that, I suggest you reword your sentence to 'There is bunches of information at....'

 

 

 

The next tag is . Tags in HTML all begin with '<' and end with '>', for example . Most tags also require an end tag. End tags look like this: . Tags define content, for example, the browser knows that what is between the and tags is HTML.

 

1. Depending on the defined Doctype, tags are not required to be closed in order to be valid markup. However, it is generally bad coding practices to not close them just because you don't have to.

 

 

 

Most tags have an opening and closing pair; however there are others, like img, br, link, and others, that are self closing, that is instead of a full closing tag, like ..., they are written as <... />.

 

 

 

2. Tags define structure of the html document, never the content. CSS should always be used for presentation and layout. in-line styling is getting less and less accepted as XHTML slowly renders the HTML standards set obsolete.

[skelm]

Nice job guys - No point adding anything else... For those more interested in the coding aspect however I will be writing a very detailed tutorial on how to code a news system in php for my blog in the next couple of weeks (http://blog.codingo.net).

 

 

 

What a surprise - Evadek stopped posting. 13 year olds, computers, and their self assumed knowledge... Geez.

[Nadril]

for a starter site he has no prior knowledge of html. learning in notepad is stupid, it makes it much harder to preview etc.

 

 

 

 

 

try and find a wysiwyg until you learn html (but you have to learn html)

 

 

 

I learned HTML in notepad... lol.

 

 

 

Same here, and don't be stupid, the only way you are going to learn is by writting pure code yourself, plus, for a starter site, I wouldn't want to spend $300 just to do a website. Once I started getting into it, I did buy it.

 

 

 

Use Notepad, unless you are rich.

 

 

 

Yeah. I could see teaching yourself HTML in frontpage, but IMO i'd get too lazy and start doing stuff the easy way.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm still a nub at HTML though :oops: .

[nengal]

Notepad FTW!

 

 

 

 

 

The only useful thing about Dreamweaver is when you start making tons of tables with lots of crosssections and stuff.

[meadowmont]

Thanks for the corrections darkrick! I've edited my post above.

[Kwisatz]

I suggest you this:

 

 

 

If you're beginer with the computer: Microsoft Publisher

 

If you're good with the computer: Microsoft Front Page

 

If you're very good and know all the basics of computerm and you have BRAIN: Macromedia Dreamweaver

 

 

 

And for Images:

 

 

 

Macromedia Fireworks

 

 

 

Wow.

 

 

 

I used to think that Frontpage was uber1337, but quite honestly unless you're a business it's useless. For instance, my dad is computer savvy but knows no HTML. He bought Frontpage because he has a website that he updates at least once a day for his business. He doesn't want to screw around with portal software, includes, headers, etc., he just wants it to work. And work it does. And when he has to design a site for somebody else, which happens quite often, it takes him half an hour instead of a week. Case in point - for small businesses that need fast solutions, FrontPage works.

 

 

 

For a hobby site however you should write the code yourself instead of doing some lame WYSIWYG crap. I use EditPlus for all my codewriting and it serves me well. In order, learn HTML, CSS and then PHP. You'll be glad you did that instead of relying on WYSIWYG editors. They're designed for quick, dirty editing work for businesses that cannot afford to hire somebody to code a custom site, not for one-man hobby operations who should learn HTML.

[skelm]

I still think it's funny that he said Dreamweaver requires a brain to use...

[Evadek]

Dreamweaver, HTML is a ridiculously easy coding method to learn since it requires no logic, it's like using the console in Counter strike. Don't be a mentally challenged and use notepad, there's absolutely no advantage to using it over Dreamweaver since Dreamweaver writes the HTML out for you and gives you an updated graphical representation of what the webpage looks like which notepad or any other geek tool doesn't do.

 

 

 

It's actually funny that you don't know the advantages to writing out your own code and you're trying to boast yourself as someone who knows about web design.

 

 

 

It's funny because there are no advantages. HTML is a very very basic Markup Language. Writing all the code yourself is just time consuming. Sure it's handy if you know what the code means (which Dreamweaver helps with) but it doesn't take a genius to work out that if it says "table" then it's basically likely a table.

 

 

 

I stand by my comment that you are a mentally challenged if you use notepad over dreamweaver. unless you're so poor you can't afford dreamweaver

 

 

 

There's no advantage to it? I mean, there's not much I can say that rick and skelm didn't say (good job guys) but maybe you don't realize that you're talking to someone who started webpage design using all the crap. I've done front page, dreamweaver, every single online free webpage builder you can do - and then I learned how to actually code. I'm talking from experience when I say there are things I can do in Notepad that you will NEVER be able to do in Dreamweaver. Tell me, how do you drag and drop a MySQL database into Dreamweaver?

 

 

 

You guys sound like you can't code in Dreamweaver, but you can :-w

 

 

 

 

 

 

There you go making bold, irrational statements again. If you seriously are of the opinion that Dreamweaver does a better job then a text editor - good on you, but don't try convincing us otherwise.

 

 

 

You're lack of knowledge led you to beleive that the only editor we meant was notepad - in no way. First of all, I'm not a pc user - would hate to be (http://codingo.net/blog/2006/03/24/why- ... dows-worldÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ/).

 

 

 

Personally, I use BBEdit for all of my web designs... Most of the formatting of text is done in CSS - This is something a WYSIWYG editor fails to deliver.

 

 

 

If you are only using WYSIWYG's to design your pages - good on you... but they sure aren't going to stack up next to the equivalent design made in a text editor.

 

 

 

Lack of knowledge, I love it when people say that. Your statement is stupid for so many reasons that i'm not going to do you the favor in listing them

[____]

I don't believe anyone said you can't code in DreamWeaver, or any other WYSIWYG editor for that matter, just that they have no benifit over text editors once you know the basic funamental principles of HTML.

 

 

 

And if skelm's comment is stupid, how about you actually post some reasoning behind your claim rather than attempting to back it up with absolutely nothing. I'm curious - you claim to know all so much about website design and development but have done nothing to prove that to be the case.

[skelm]

Dreamweaver, HTML is a ridiculously easy coding method to learn since it requires no logic, it's like using the console in Counter strike. Don't be a mentally challenged and use notepad, there's absolutely no advantage to using it over Dreamweaver since Dreamweaver writes the HTML out for you and gives you an updated graphical representation of what the webpage looks like which notepad or any other geek tool doesn't do.

 

 

 

It's actually funny that you don't know the advantages to writing out your own code and you're trying to boast yourself as someone who knows about web design.

 

 

 

It's funny because there are no advantages. HTML is a very very basic Markup Language. Writing all the code yourself is just time consuming. Sure it's handy if you know what the code means (which Dreamweaver helps with) but it doesn't take a genius to work out that if it says "table" then it's basically likely a table.

 

 

 

I stand by my comment that you are a mentally challenged if you use notepad over dreamweaver. unless you're so poor you can't afford dreamweaver

 

 

 

There's no advantage to it? I mean, there's not much I can say that rick and skelm didn't say (good job guys) but maybe you don't realize that you're talking to someone who started webpage design using all the crap. I've done front page, dreamweaver, every single online free webpage builder you can do - and then I learned how to actually code. I'm talking from experience when I say there are things I can do in Notepad that you will NEVER be able to do in Dreamweaver. Tell me, how do you drag and drop a MySQL database into Dreamweaver?

 

 

 

You guys sound like you can't code in Dreamweaver, but you can :-w

 

 

 

 

 

 

There you go making bold, irrational statements again. If you seriously are of the opinion that Dreamweaver does a better job then a text editor - good on you, but don't try convincing us otherwise.

 

 

 

You're lack of knowledge led you to beleive that the only editor we meant was notepad - in no way. First of all, I'm not a pc user - would hate to be (http://codingo.net/blog/2006/03/24/why- ... dows-worldÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ/).

 

 

 

Personally, I use BBEdit for all of my web designs... Most of the formatting of text is done in CSS - This is something a WYSIWYG editor fails to deliver.

 

 

 

If you are only using WYSIWYG's to design your pages - good on you... but they sure aren't going to stack up next to the equivalent design made in a text editor.

 

 

 

Lack of knowledge, I love it when people say that. Your statement is stupid for so many reasons that i'm not going to do you the favor in listing them

 

 

 

Tell me - Where did any of us state that you can't code in Dreamweaver?

 

 

 

Sure, you can... That doesn't mean you should. You can also kill youself, but that doesn't mean you should (although in your case I'm starting to wonder if that statement applied).

 

 

 

How about you back some of your claims up instead of trying to hide behind a non-existant paradox that you somehow seem to beleive you have created on these forums.

 

 

 

Not only are you an immature noob - you are also unable to back up any of your posts with evidance or supporting statements.

 

 

 

Good luck in your future endevours - I feel sorry for anyone you ever build a website for.

[Bubsa]

Lack of knowledge, I love it when people say that. Your statement is stupid for so many reasons that i'm not going to do you the favor in listing them

 

Of course, you know what those reasons are. You just don't wanna tell. :roll:

[Guest GhostRanger]

Lack of knowledge, I love it when people say that. Your statement is stupid for so many reasons that i'm not going to do you the favor in listing them

 

 

 

The interesting thing about this is, you don't even need to list these "reasons." skelm has already given you three great examples of what he coded without Dreamweaver - why don't you show us some of your Dreamweaver masterpieces?

 

 

 

Anyone can say anything, show us what you've done.