Why.....

[Michael_Allen]

Why is it when people talk of 9/11 they say 'oh what a tradegy it was for 2000-3000 inocent people to lose theirs lives'.

 

 

 

But what i want to know is where is the sympayth for the iraqi people who are dying at a rate of 3500 a month. what about all the innocent people killed by wayward US bombs and rocketss that were supposed to hit military targets.

 

 

 

Im sorry for ranting abit but if people think 3000 civilan deaths is a tradegy what is 100'000 civilain deaths.............

[reddawn509]

I agree completely, I do not know why people dont seem to care about the thousands of people dieing in Iraq...but I have wondered about this many times.. :?

[Anesthesia]

I'd be interested to know who reported that post and for what reason. The only reason I can think of would be "omg but teh iraqi ppl are teh ev1l".

 

 

 

Honestly, own up...

[caligula101]

I hate it aswell, it's America's revenge though. The sleeping giant goes on a rampage if you ruffle his feathers.

[Bubsa]

I agree, but in doing so I in no way want to detract from the magnitude of 9/11. However, every reprecussion from it is as bad or worse.

[Zibl]

I think people see 9/11 as such a tragity because it was so unexpected and aweful. It was a terrorist attack that surprised the world and happened in one of the most famous cities in the world.

 

 

 

The war on Iraq is nothing new. Though all the innocent people in Iraq dieing is an aweful thing, people see it as a "side effect" (if you will) of war.

 

 

 

People see a terrorist attack as much more of an "oh meh gawd!!1!1!" situation.

 

 

 

P.S. - Don't be offended by anything I've posted. I'm simply trying to explain it in the best way I can :-k .

[Thaulsis]

The event happened closer to home. Generally, most people arenÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t impacted as much by someone dieing on the other side of the world, someone they never met. Where as, itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s more common to know of a family that was a victim of 9/11, so they might feel as if the next time it could be their own family.

 

 

 

I personally wish it were different tooÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ

[Ragen]

I think that this will also be true of Iraqi's not caring too much about 9/11. The Iraq war is on the other side of the world and it is people dying in a war zone situation. 9/11 on the other hand was right in the middle of the western world and a massive shock to America. But I also feel that a lot of people care much more about American lives than Iraqi ones.

 

 

 

Just one more thing that I want to say. The Asian Tsunami of Boxing Day 2004 killed over 300,000 people and that seems to be almost forgotten.

[Bmw]

I don't know what planet you're living on, but 9/11 was a tragedy. When people talk about 9/11, why would they say "Omg the attacks on the WTC, I feel so sorry for the Iraqi people."?! That's pretty stupid...

 

 

 

What about the thousands who are dying in Iraq, and all over the world for that matter? Those are different events. 9/11 was an attack in America you know...not Iraq :lol:

 

 

 

I understand that wars have happened as a result of 9/11, and thousands have died as a result. That's a tragedy of course...but I really don't understand wth your topic is trying to say...

 

 

 

As for the Tsunami that happened on Boxing Day of 2004, that was a natural disaster which didn't directly hit any superpower nation. If 300 000 Americans had died, obviously it would have been bigger news. However, that's not to say it wasn't. What about Hurricane Katrina? People don't really talk about that anymore either. It was a natural disaster, that's why. If 300 000 died as a result of a nuclear weapon or some sort of war, obviously it would be bigger news. I don't think I have to explain why... :roll:

[Bubsa]

I think that this will also be true of Iraqi's not caring too much about 9/11. The Iraq war is on the other side of the world and it is people dying in a war zone situation. 9/11 on the other hand was right in the middle of the western world and a massive shock to America. But I also feel that a lot of people care much more about American lives than Iraqi ones.

 

 

 

Good point, we should be aware that it should work both ways.

[Ard_Choille]

Why is it when people talk of 9/11 they say 'oh what a tradegy it was for 2000-3000 inocent people to lose theirs lives'.

 

 

 

But what i want to know is where is the sympayth for the iraqi people who are dying at a rate of 3500 a month. what about all the innocent people killed by wayward US bombs and rocketss that were supposed to hit military targets.

 

 

 

Im sorry for ranting abit but if people think 3000 civilan deaths is a tradegy what is 100'000 civilain deaths.............

 

 

 

I'd say that people would agree that all human loss is tragic. For 9/11, the tragedy was twofold - human loss and unexpectedness of the attack.

 

 

 

The Iraqi loss is no less tragic as far as human loss is concerned. The difference lies only in the fact that in a war situation, human loss is not unexpected. From what I've heard from my brother-in-law who is stationed in Baghdad, the Iraqi people want freedom and most of them realize that their present condition is part of the process. When you consider that over half a million people were killed and over four hundred thousand were injured in the US Civil war (the highest loss suffered by Americans) you know that freedom does have a cost.

 

 

 

The difference in the emotional response is really all about how close the loss is to you. Yes, Americans will respond more emotionally to American loss. The same is true about any country suffering human loss, no matter the cause. I don't think people are as callous as you think.

[Anesthesia]

From what I've heard from my brother-in-law who is stationed in Baghdad, the Iraqi people want freedom and most of them realize that their present condition is part of the process.

 

 

 

Surely such information has to be treated with a fair amount of caution - have you not seen Full Metal Jacket, or even Good Morning Vietnam? The soldiers hear what their commanders want them to hear - and what their commanders want them to hear is that the war they are fighting is justified and the people surrounding them appreciate what they are doing.

 

 

 

Two works of fiction, I know, but the issues they deal with are real, including that of propaganda.

[Barihawk]

Surely such information has to be treated with a fair amount of caution - have you not seen Full Metal Jacket, or even Good Morning Vietnam? The soldiers hear what their commanders want them to hear - and what their commanders want them to hear is that the war they are fighting is justified and the people surrounding them appreciate what they are doing.

 

 

 

Two works of fiction, I know, but the issues they deal with are real, including that of propaganda.

 

 

 

In that case, I am sure that the US national debt is incurred by paying off all those civilians to act friendly.

 

 

 

Every soldier I have as a friend stationed over there may not agree with the war, but every bloody one of them says that they can not go into a city or around Baghdad without civilians waving American and Iraqi flags out windows, or little children bringing them flowers. The Iraqi people were tired of Iron-fisted rule, and recognize that military occupation is necessary. Many of them look forward to when their military and government can take over administration from the US and finally be free.

 

 

 

That being said, the majority of Iraqi's killed since the war ended have been Iraqis killed by militant Islamic groups confronting eachother (now that free religion is law) and the remnant insurgent groups targetting US supporters. Believe it or not, US soldiers are not walking around slaughtering innocent Iraqis.

 

 

 

The insurgencies will press on for a few years. It's like a snake's body struggling even after you have cut off the head.

[Anesthesia]

I said treated with caution. Not disbelieved.

[Ard_Choille]

Surely such information has to be treated with a fair amount of caution - have you not seen Full Metal Jacket, or even Good Morning Vietnam? The soldiers hear what their commanders want them to hear - and what their commanders want them to hear is that the war they are fighting is justified and the people surrounding them appreciate what they are doing.

 

 

 

Two works of fiction, I know, but the issues they deal with are real, including that of propaganda.

 

My brother-in-law is IN Baghdad. There is no buffer between him and the Iraqi people. He is a military Chaplain who works with Iraqi families and military. I assure you, he's heard this directly from Iraqis.

 

 

 

Don't take what hollywood portrays as reality. Surely such information has to be treated with caution...as it is glued together with dramatic FICTION. Propaganda sells, that's why they produce it.

[Anesthesia]

Surely such information has to be treated with caution...as it is glued together with dramatic FICTION. Propaganda sells, that's why they produce it.

 

 

 

Are you saying that no propaganda is issued? If you read my post I think you'll see that I acknowledge the two films are works of fiction, however the fact that propaganda has been used in all recent wars by all sides concerned isn't. Linky.

 

 

 

Your brother-in-law, unless some manner of super-chaplain, will have had contact with a few hundred people, are you telling me that that qualifies him to speak for 26 million people?

 

 

 

You too seem to be acting as though I said your information was false, why is this? I simply cast a critical eye over all 'facts' that I'm presented with - it's in my nature as a skeptic.

[Ard_Choille]

Your brother-in-law, unless some manner of super-chaplain, will have had contact with a few hundred people, are you telling me that that qualifies him to speak for 26 million people?

 

How many people have you had contact with?

[Anesthesia]

Tell me how that is relevant to how accurate your source is and I'll let you know.

[Bmw]

Your brother-in-law, unless some manner of super-chaplain, will have had contact with a few hundred people, are you telling me that that qualifies him to speak for 26 million people?

 

 

 

 

Obviously not. Nothing will ever qualify you to speak on behalf of 26 million people, even if you've briefly met every single one of them :roll:

 

 

 

What he's saying is based on his brother-in-law's experience. As for the whole thing about propaganda, why would they not use it? The whole purpose is to boost the morale of the soldiers, regardless of the circumstances.

 

 

 

It just seems like Ard is arguing aginst you because in one of your previous posts, it sounded like you were attempting to prove his point wrong, by referring to movies like Full Metal Jacket.

[Ard_Choille]

It's relevant because my source isn't the only one on this thread and the only sources you are referencing are movie scripts and your critical eye. A sampling of people involved in the situation is much closer to representing the mass population than mere pessimism.

 

 

 

...Every soldier I have as a friend stationed over there may not agree with the war, but every bloody one of them says that they can not go into a city or around Baghdad without civilians waving American and Iraqi flags out windows, or little children bringing them flowers. The Iraqi people were tired of Iron-fisted rule, and recognize that military occupation is necessary. Many of them look forward to when their military and government can take over administration from the US and finally be free...

 

Does propaganda exist? Sure...but not everything is.

 

 

 

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BMW: Thanks for posting. FYI though, I'm a she. :mrgreen:

[Anesthesia]

I was referencing movie scripts as an example, that much should be clear. They are not my 'source', and I did say in the post that I referenced them in that they are "...works of fiction, I know, but the issues they deal with are real, including that of propaganda". My source is the simple fact that propaganda does exist and is used in all wars.

 

 

 

I was not claiming that you were deliberately providing false information, I was questioning the accuracy of it. When it is evident that there is resistance in Iraq then it is obvious that not everyone wants you there and I'm asking how can one man know what the majority opinion is? I'm not saying "I've heard different so yours must be wrong" and as such the number of people I have had contact with is totally irrelevant.