Christmas is..?

[Punc]

8-) Christmas (the date 25 december) was a peagan fest before the Church decided it would be better to replace it with a random event, they trew the darts, and picked the birth of Christ. So there's no reason at all the be [developmentally delayed] there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anywho, as for Santa:

 

 

 

Santa Claus comes from the European Sint Niklaas, which was altered when all the europeans went to America for various reasons. (famine, religious stuffies, ect..), they messed up the date abit, and blam, now you have a fat green skinny dude to give kids presents. But luckily enough there's Coca Cola, who makes Santa in the big fat red dude, that everybody loves now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe the tree comes from the peagan (is that spelled right :x) fest, they used to burn wooden trees and shapes to honour some [ god/day/not 100% sure and to lazy to search it :oops: ].

[Striker6]

I don't see why my opinion has been bashed, my opinion is that you shouldn't be allowed to celebrate Christmas if you are not Christian. Because it is a christian holiday, and yes I do believe the Bible over wikipedia it is only logical that Christmas should be a holiday for Christians. Therefore if you tell me you are an Atheist you are infact wrong because the principles of Christmas still stand. As I think I mentioned before alot of this stems from a misunderstanding and i'd like you not to form opinions about Christianity and the Bible unless you have studied them.

[BlueLancer]

yes I do believe the Bible over wikipedia

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And where in the Bible does it say the word 'christmas' or anything related to it, other than the pagan tradition of cutting logs and decorating them (and Jeremiah is talking about the cutting of logs in the context of worshipping idols)? Did you even know that Jesus did not even celebrate his own birthday nor the apostles'?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then there is the book of Revelations, chapter 12, which talks about "dragons and serpents" on the birth of Jesus, which is obviously literature, not historical fact. Nor do people to my knowledge in these days associate dragons or serpents with christmas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i'd like you not to form opinions about Christianity and the Bible unless you have studied them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have studied christianity, islam, judaism and a lot of other religions (that you probably know theologically nothing about), and I'm not a christian. Nor am I a member of any other religion. Don't make assumptions, in fact, I'd want to hear about your religious research.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And seriously, if you prefer a 2,000 year old book over real modern day research, you wont be taken seriously in any debate. Let me say that in a nice fashion before some more radical members say it harshly.

[insane]

 

Syncretism was a way of making new converts (without oppressing them) more comfortable with Christianity by allowing them to celebrate their old festivals; just with a Christian twinge to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other words, change the story to gain converts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't say they were changing the story. They were simply trying to make new converts feel more comfortable. No one's saying they wouldn't have converted if they didn't change their holidays.

[Striker6]

And seriously, if you prefer a 2,000 year old book over real modern day research, you wont be taken seriously in any debate. Let me say that in a nice fashion before some more radical members say it harshly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I take offence to that, personally I have faith in God and refuse to believe anything you say. Also who said we were debating? That would be implying im interested in what you have to say.

[BlueLancer]

But isn't that like a "legitimate lie"? Telling the child that as long as he shuts up and doesn't behave bad, Santa Claus exists and will bring him candy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As pointed above, it's doubtful that in remote areas of Europe for example, any populations mentioned as 'christian' truly remained 'christian' after missionaries and crusaders visited their countries (or even killed the local folk in skirmishes).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know of many examples but I do know that at least in Scandinavia most people have retained a large amount of pagan rituals forbidden by the church even up to the early 20th century. And in nordic countries people *still* burn midsummer solstice logs every year which I have also witnessed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That brings up the question, were those people "christian" or not, just because they didn't obey the authority of the church? Is the church even an authority on these issues really, since especially many historic local churches were just lead by ordinary priests who had been from the upper social class or merchants, farmers, etc?

[assassin_696]

 

And seriously, if you prefer a 2,000 year old book over real modern day research, you wont be taken seriously in any debate. Let me say that in a nice fashion before some more radical members say it harshly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I take offence to that, personally I have faith in God and refuse to believe anything you say. Also who said we were debating? That would be implying im interested in what you have to say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but if you're refusing to believe the facts that Punc and BlueLancer and everyone else are presenting purely because you believe in God then what use is the free will that God gave you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have to accept that the notion of celebrating Christmas is not something that is contained anywhere in the Bible, it's something that has developed over time with it's history rooted in many different cultures and beliefs, and doesn't originally stem from any Bible teaching except the idea of the birth of Jesus himself.

[BlueLancer]

 

And seriously, if you prefer a 2,000 year old book over real modern day research, you wont be taken seriously in any debate. Let me say that in a nice fashion before some more radical members say it harshly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I take offence to that, personally I have faith in God and refuse to believe anything you say. Also who said we were debating? That would be implying im interested in what you have to say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What makes you think the rest of the users are interested in your, rather close minded thoughts then? If you don't want a debate, I suggest you walk out of the door and go to some other forum. This is not a 'blog' where you dump your ideas and leave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Make a blog if you think anybody is interested in your thoughts and block all comments if you wish. See how many readers you will have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I may also tell you other random facts on other threads, such as the Earth indeed being round and not having corners unlike the Bible suggests, but after all, you have free will, you can refuse to believe me. Not my problem.

[Striker6]

Yes what I said was sort of rude, I was just angry at you for belittling me. In any case, you haven't changed my opinion however I am sorry for portraying my views in such a close minded fashion.

[BlueLancer]

I don't take any offense nor did I think I was belittling you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was saying that when it comes to history, there's no "opinions" or "changing minds", there's only "what happened".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't have an opinion such as 'I don't think the american civil war happened' or 'I'm sure the mexicans conquered america in the 1800's' because it didn't happen and there is no proof to show that, just like there is no proof in the Bible or anywhere else that christmas is in any way related to Jesus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you refuse to believe christmas is not actually an original christian celebration (given the fact Jesus himself even refused to celebrate birthdays!), then I'm deeply sorry. The Bible mentions nothing about it either, so you're only left with real sources.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if you refuse to believe real sources as well, I'm even more sorry for you. But eventually, if you are working towards a higher education, you will need to refer to real evidence and sources, just as in a debate.

[Striker6]

Regardless of what day it happened I still believe that Christ was born. You may dispute what day it happened however I believe it did happen and i'll celebrate it on the 25th December until you provide proof what day he was born. Even if it was a pagan holiday as you say I still believe the principles of Christmas and they stand for Christians. Although others nowadays may celebrate it I still think if you call yourself an Atheist you shouldn't celebrate Christmas, then again as insane said earlier Christmas is no longer what it used to be.