warri0r45 Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 As science advances the need for God decreases. He will become less personal and become more of an event, and only more of an event because we can't explain the start of the universe and an infinite regression is impossible. It's just the opposite. God becomes more personal the more we realize science can't fill the relationship-shaped void in our lives. Do you honestly think science is going to bring you fulfillment in life? Warri0r45-Not everyone needs god to have a fulfilled life. hehe, well speaking of the "magical divine created" incestuous couple Adam and Eve......hmmmmm isn't that one of the "Sins"? let's see one man and one woman created the world's population, that means father and daughter, mother and son or some version or such had to happen... *gag* The Bible doesn't say God didn't create other beings. The Bible doesn't say that Adam and Eve are responsible for every being that ever existed either. Warri0r45-The bible dosen't say that 6 days were literal either. It dosen't say that evolution is wrong or that the earth is 6000 years old. Yeah, it dosen't say a lot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 God doesn't bring fulfillment in life, correct me if I am wrong but every human on this planet religious or not wants something more. Whether that be material or spiritual we are all searching for felicity and thats human nature. Science brings truth, and truth brings some fulfillment as oppose to religion which just attempts to cloud it. Yeah, and I've never heard a human being say "Wow, science has brought me so much fulfillment in life! I'm so glad I've spent my life acquiring knowledge that neither affected my heart nor helped me love the people around me". When you're on your deathbed, are you going to say "Gee, I just wish I had studied science more!"? Of course not, I don't study science. I don't think it is the most important thing in the world, however it's the best tool we have for discovering truth. I know when I'm lying on my deathbed hopefully i can be proud of helping change society for the better for it is the only world and life we are sure about. I will certainly not be thinking about whether I have impressed a God enough to get into heaven. I hope you don't think that we're supposed to impress God in order to get into heaven. We are able to get into heaven because Jesus died for our sins. What we can do is either accept that gift or decline it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Edit: posted incorrectly, ignore this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 God doesn't bring fulfillment in life, correct me if I am wrong but every human on this planet religious or not wants something more. Whether that be material or spiritual we are all searching for felicity and thats human nature. Science brings truth, and truth brings some fulfillment as oppose to religion which just attempts to cloud it. Yeah, and I've never heard a human being say "Wow, science has brought me so much fulfillment in life! I'm so glad I've spent my life acquiring knowledge that neither affected my heart nor helped me love the people around me". When you're on your deathbed, are you going to say "Gee, I just wish I had studied science more!"? Actually, I could see that being thought. Science is fascinating and we're always finding out new stuff. Once you read the Bible...That's kinda' the end of it. You know all there is to know about it. These people who claim "Oh no, I've read the Bible 100 times and I'm STILL learning about God!" are dilusional. God isn't that mysterious if you're religious...He's only mysterious to people like me who just don't get why it's accepted that he's a "loving God" while at the same time he'll send good people to Hell. I don't believe that, however...But you do. Lol, the Christian God is so illogical that it's not even funny. Okay, maybe a little: (Christian beliefs) 1) God is omnipotent and omniscient. 2) We humans have free will, granted by God. 3) Be bad and don't accept Jesus, you going to Hell foo'. I love how the second part of point one contradicts point two, and makes point three not make any sense. I mean, we're predestined to go to Heaven or Hell at birth by that logic :lol: . Hell's just a tool to scare people into being good, and to make the good people feel cocky about how everyone else is going to heck :lol: . Ah, the power of illogical but hopeful karma. [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 God doesn't bring fulfillment in life, correct me if I am wrong but every human on this planet religious or not wants something more. Whether that be material or spiritual we are all searching for felicity and thats human nature. Science brings truth, and truth brings some fulfillment as oppose to religion which just attempts to cloud it. Yeah, and I've never heard a human being say "Wow, science has brought me so much fulfillment in life! I'm so glad I've spent my life acquiring knowledge that neither affected my heart nor helped me love the people around me". When you're on your deathbed, are you going to say "Gee, I just wish I had studied science more!"? Actually, I could see that being thought. Science is fascinating and we're always finding out new stuff. Once you read the Bible...That's kinda' the end of it. You know all there is to know about it. These people who claim "Oh no, I've read the Bible 100 times and I'm STILL learning about God!" are dilusional. God isn't that mysterious if you're religious...He's only mysterious to people like me who just don't get why it's accepted that he's a "loving God" while at the same time he'll send good people to Hell. I don't believe that, however...But you do. Lol, the Christian God is so illogical that it's not even funny. Okay, maybe a little: (Christian beliefs) 1) God is omnipotent and omniscient. 2) We humans have free will, granted by God. 3) Be bad and don't accept Jesus, you going to Hell foo'. I love how the second part of point one contradicts point two, and makes point three not make any sense. I mean, we're predestined to go to Heaven or Hell at birth by that logic :lol: . Hell's just a tool to scare people into being good, and to make the good people feel cocky about how everyone else is going to heck :lol: . Ah, the power of illogical but hopeful karma. First off I'd appreciate if you could prove your points without ridiculing other peoples beliefs. Second, it doesn't really matter to me if we're predestined or not (although I don't think so) since a life with God would be the best life to live anyway. And no one knows who's going to hell or heaven except God. There is no way for us to look inside of peoples hearts, sometimes the outside does not reflect what's inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 First off I'd appreciate if you could prove your points without ridiculing other peoples beliefs. Second, it doesn't really matter to me if we're predestined or not (although I don't think so) since a life with God would be the best life to live anyway. And no one knows who's going to hell or heaven except God. There is no way for us to look inside of peoples hearts, sometimes the outside does not reflect what's inside. I think the point he was making was that since God knows what will happen, and every decision we make. He knows who is going to hell and who is not. So what can anyone do to stop it? You could argue that will God knows what decisions we will make, and doesn't enforce us to make them. The problem with that is that he still has predetermined what we will end up doing. Be that going to heaven or to hell. So how could any christian save anyone else from going to hell? He knows if we will accept him or not at birth, and he knows that we are going to heaven or to hell. The fact is that if we don't accept Jesus, we are going to hell and if we are predetermied to go to hell there is nothing we can do about it at all. So Gods just creating us to not follow him and to end up burning in hell for all eternity. Thanks God. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest XplsvBam Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 @ everyone : The Bible is a book. A book full of ideas and theology. You can choose to accept it question it or ignore it. But thats your choice not mine. No one wants to waste time trying to prove it to you if you are going to ignore them. If you have serious questions about the Bible, pm me and I'll help you find the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 First off I'd appreciate if you could prove your points without ridiculing other peoples beliefs. Second, it doesn't really matter to me if we're predestined or not (although I don't think so) since a life with God would be the best life to live anyway. And no one knows who's going to hell or heaven except God. There is no way for us to look inside of peoples hearts, sometimes the outside does not reflect what's inside. I think the point he was making was that since God knows what will happen, and every decision we make. He knows who is going to hell and who is not. So what can anyone do to stop it? You could argue that will God knows what decisions we will make, and doesn't enforce us to make them. The problem with that is that he still has predetermined what we will end up doing. Be that going to heaven or to hell. So how could any christian save anyone else from going to hell? He knows if we will accept him or not at birth, and he knows that we are going to heaven or to hell. The fact is that if we don't accept Jesus, we are going to hell and if we are predetermied to [bleep] there is nothing we can do about it at all. So Gods just creating us to not follow him and to end up burning in hell for all eternity. Thanks God. Sorry if I'm being ignornant on this one, but I don't think I have the authority to decide who will end up where. I trust that God will make or have already made the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 What do you mean "prove it"? the only way you can prove it is with circular reasoning, Example: The Bible says it is written by man with divine inspiration from God therefore thats proof that the Bible is true. Thats not proof at all, it still requires faith for you to prove it. Nothing can be proved through faith because faith is all about not having proof. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Sorry if I'm being ignornant on this one, but I don't think I have the authority to decide who will end up where. I trust that God will make or have already made the right decision. Thats not the point, the point is God has predetermined who will and who will not go to hell. What is the point of creating people who are predetermined to go to hell? Are we supposed to be thankful for that supposed free will and live the rest of our life burning and being tourtured? It's like a parent letting a child run out into a road of busy traffic because they have the free will to do that. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Sorry if I'm being ignornant on this one, but I don't think I have the authority to decide who will end up where. I trust that God will make or have already made the right decision. Thats not the point, the point is God has predetermined who will and who will not [bleep]. What is the point of creating people who are predetermined to [bleep]? Are we supposed to be thankful for that supposed free will and live the rest of our life burning and being tourtured? It's like a parent letting a child run out into a road of busy traffic because they have the free will to do that. What's the point in creating a world at all? God doesn't need humans for anything. Yet we are here. God knows - I don't, that pretty much sums up my responses about this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Sorry if I'm being ignornant on this one, but I don't think I have the authority to decide who will end up where. I trust that God will make or have already made the right decision. Thats not the point, the point is God has predetermined who will and who will not [bleep]. What is the point of creating people who are predetermined to [bleep]? Are we supposed to be thankful for that supposed free will and live the rest of our life burning and being tourtured? It's like a parent letting a child run out into a road of busy traffic because they have the free will to do that. What's the point in creating a world at all? God doesn't need humans for anything. Yet we are here. God knows - I don't, that pretty much sums up my responses about this question. That's what we call evading. For three posts in a row. Let's try this: do you believe God is omniscient? Yes or no will suffice. [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Sorry if I'm being ignornant on this one, but I don't think I have the authority to decide who will end up where. I trust that God will make or have already made the right decision. Thats not the point, the point is God has predetermined who will and who will not [bleep]. What is the point of creating people who are predetermined to [bleep]? Are we supposed to be thankful for that supposed free will and live the rest of our life burning and being tourtured? It's like a parent letting a child run out into a road of busy traffic because they have the free will to do that. What's the point in creating a world at all? God doesn't need humans for anything. Yet we are here. God knows - I don't, that pretty much sums up my responses about this question. That's what we call evading. For three posts in a row. Let's try this: do you believe God is omniscient? Yes or no will suffice. Isn't it pretty obvious what I think? Sorry...YES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 What's the point in creating a world at all? God doesn't need humans for anything. Yet we are here. God knows - I don't, that pretty much sums up my responses about this question. That's what we call evading. For three posts in a row. Let's try this: do you believe God is omniscient? Yes or no will suffice. Isn't it pretty obvious what I think? Sorry...YES. Question #2: From God's perspective, do you believe we have the power to shape who we are and choose the good or bad path, to become worthy of entering heaven of our own accord through our personal decisions? [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 What's the point in creating a world at all? God doesn't need humans for anything. Yet we are here. God knows - I don't, that pretty much sums up my responses about this question. That's what we call evading. For three posts in a row. Let's try this: do you believe God is omniscient? Yes or no will suffice. Isn't it pretty obvious what I think? Sorry...YES. Question #2: From God's perspective, do you believe we have the power to shape who we are and choose the good or bad path, to become worthy of entering heaven of our own accord through our personal decisions? I can't answer from anyone elses but my own perspective. I think we can't become worthy of entering the heaven on our own. Only Jesus can give us a ticket to heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 What's the point in creating a world at all? God doesn't need humans for anything. Yet we are here. God knows - I don't, that pretty much sums up my responses about this question. That's what we call evading. For three posts in a row. Let's try this: do you believe God is omniscient? Yes or no will suffice. Isn't it pretty obvious what I think? Sorry...YES. Question #2: From God's perspective, do you believe we have the power to shape who we are and choose the good or bad path, to become worthy of entering heaven of our own accord through our personal decisions? I can't answer from anyone elses but my own perspective. I think we can't become worthy of entering the heaven on our own. Only Jesus can give us a ticket to heaven. Ugh, more evading. Okay, I'll rephrase the question. Do you believe we have free will? [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 What's the point in creating a world at all? God doesn't need humans for anything. Yet we are here. God knows - I don't, that pretty much sums up my responses about this question. That's what we call evading. For three posts in a row. Let's try this: do you believe God is omniscient? Yes or no will suffice. Isn't it pretty obvious what I think? Sorry...YES. Question #2: From God's perspective, do you believe we have the power to shape who we are and choose the good or bad path, to become worthy of entering heaven of our own accord through our personal decisions? I can't answer from anyone elses but my own perspective. I think we can't become worthy of entering the heaven on our own. Only Jesus can give us a ticket to heaven. Ugh, more evading. Okay, I'll rephrase the question. Do you believe we have free will? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Ugh, more evading. Okay, I'll rephrase the question. Do you believe we have free will? Yes. Okay, there we go. You believe God is omniscient, and you believe in free will. Contradiction party \ . [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Ugh, more evading. Okay, I'll rephrase the question. Do you believe we have free will? Yes. Okay, there we go. You believe God is omniscient, and you believe in free will. Contradiction party \ . Finally we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 You agree that your beliefs are contrdictory? Contraditions means that they don't work and that you need to rethink them. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 You agree that your beliefs are contrdictory? Contraditions means that they don't work and that you need to rethink them. I can't know whether we have free will or not only God would know. However my experiences points towards free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 So, if we didn't have free will whats the point in creating some humans to follow God and some humans to not follow God? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 You agree that your beliefs are contrdictory? Contraditions means that they don't work and that you need to rethink them. I can't know whether we have free will or not only God would know. However my experiences points towards free will. Your beliefs are contradictory. That means at least one part of your beliefs (God is omniscient or free will exists) is wrong. Stop asserting that you don't know what God knows. No one does. That has nothing to do with the discussion. [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 So, if we didn't have free will whats the point in creating some humans to follow God and some humans to not follow God? Even if you do show that god is selective and biased through logic he won't want to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 You agree that your beliefs are contrdictory? Contraditions means that they don't work and that you need to rethink them. I can't know whether we have free will or not only God would know. However my experiences points towards free will. Your beliefs are contradictory. That means at least one part of your beliefs (God is omniscient or free will exists) is wrong. Stop asserting that you don't know what God knows. No one does. That has nothing to do with the discussion. Omniscience and free will are not incompatible and it is a non-sequitor to claim otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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