The bible

[Andy]

no, guys, i figured it out.

 

 

 

the universe was created 3 seconds ago. it was created instantaneously and complete with all of our memories in place, skeletons in the ground, and photons in the sky.

 

 

 

BAM. disprove that noobs.

 

 

 

Exactly.

[Evrae]

Where did I say all christians were terrorists? If you read the next couple of sentences you will see why I said the emboldened sentence, and the previous sentence indicates that it was aimed at a particular group. Poisoning the minds of your own children is bad enough, but attempting to poison the minds of entire towns is what I would call a threat to society. That museum some nutter opened which depicts dinosaurs walking around with humans. Or the books that claim the grand canyon is proof of the flood. All attempts to claim unfounded religious belief as scientific fact. That is a threat that needs countering.

 

 

 

Instead of making exaggerated claims about what I said, why don't you actually answer the issues I've raised. I'd be interested to know how such actions could be said to be good for society.

 

 

 

Okay, maybe my wording wasn't perfect, but five seconds thought would determine what I meant. Perhaps it might be better as

 

 

 

'As Assassin said, there are a great many Christians who do not view the bible as mere symbolism. And it is the practices of some of those christians, mainly in America but also here in the UK, that is most dangerous to society.'

 

 

 

I imagine that there are some creationists who don't want creationism taught in schools as fact, so 'some' is appropriate.

 

 

 

 

 

That isn't to say that there aren't christian terrorists. Those people who go around killing doctors would qualify I imagine. PIRA, IRA, UVF and more were all christian groups, though they have stopped now, thankfully.

[Necromagus]

*passes around the popcorn*

 

 

 

I really can't be bothered to get into this quagmire, but this is some great entertainment. I love it when otherwise rational people come off their hinges, and religion is a great topic for that to happen.

[warri0r45]

Nooo, the bible never says that the earth was created at the same time as the rest

 

of the universe ... I don't think their astronomy was advanced enough to really think about it.

 

 

 

The Bible contradicts itself, in the Genesis creation story God makes the earth first, then the stars, but other books of the Bible disagree with this.

 

 

 

Meh, either way creationism is bunk.

 

 

 

 

 

Why can't everyone get it through their blasted heads? the bible, especially Genesis and Revelation, are SYMBOLISM. Why the blasted hell is the world created in six days, when god probably can have made it in 10 seconds? ans if god is godly, why did he need to rest on the last day? the answer? Those "days" are symbols for the israeli work days. monday through saturday, work work work. sunday rest. that author used symbolism to show how close god is to his people. we all know very well that dinosaurs came before humans, so why are they not mentioned? the answer is, they WERE. Each "day" in that book can have varied from 20 minutes to 60 million years. the dinosaurs can have come, died, and evolution took place all in one "day". The earth was not created the same time as everything else. It could have been created millions of years after some things, depending on how long the "day" was. But its symbolism. The real point is not how the world was created, but a hint of who God is.

 

 

 

Atheists and agnostics think they can find flaws in the bible and then point out that christianity must be wrong. but of course, what every blasted atheist can't seem to comprehend is that there's more SYMBOLISM in the bible then actual FACTS! Whats the point of the bible then? exactly what you're supposed to find. How to live a good life. but symbolism makes it basically a christian code that blocks out all idiots and anti-christs who believe the bible is flawed. I've posted several long posts on this thread and they seem to be ignored. I'm getting rather annoyed that nobody can comprehend the word "symbolism."

 

 

 

I for one recognise symbolism in the bible. I agrue against the literal interpretation, I don't make it seem like it should be taken literally just so I can argue your religion. See what I'm getting at? I think you should at least throw literalists in with the agnostic and atheist crowd here.

[mark63534]

can someone please explain what is going on so I can get back in this topic;LOL!...

[Saru Inc]

I really don't want to get into a debate.... SO I'll probably just post this once and not reply to anything... I'm tired lol.

 

 

 

 

 

As you pointed out, the Earth cannot just 6,000 years old. Because of fossils and such. Well, hate to break it to you, but carbon dating isn't always correct. I forget where, but a couple years ago, carbon dating said that some fossil was like 300 million years old. Then, a different test was done, and it showed the fossil was only like 1,000-2500 years old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I already no my post is going to be disregarded with crap retorts, but seeing that I'm probably the only Christian on this forum, don't care.

 

 

 

 

 

There are other things that are flawed in your post, but I really really don't feel like debating them. Sorry. But, just a quick note, many creation stories all follow the Christian creation story, not that it was made in 7 days, or made by one man. BUT THAT THE GOD SPOKE AND THE DEEDS WERE DONE. That is exactly what the Christian creation story is about, and since I think it was like 50+ religions all follow that well.....

 

 

 

 

 

You figure it out.

 

 

 

Sorry I'm not in the mood to debate, I try to stay away from internet debates lol. Feel free to meet me in person to debate. LOL.

 

 

 

 

 

~Saru

[fakeitormakeit]

When will we all learn, I can believe the Bible to a literal or symbolic sense and you can just not believe in the Bible, as long as we respect each others opinions, we're all happy, no lies needing to be made done, no insults needing to be thrown, so on so forth (why do I even bother :roll: )

[warri0r45]

I really don't want to get into a debate.... SO I'll probably just post this once and not reply to anything... I'm tired lol.

 

 

 

 

 

As you pointed out, the Earth cannot just 6,000 years old. Because of fossils and such. Well, hate to break it to you, but carbon dating isn't always correct. I forget where, but a couple years ago, carbon dating said that some fossil was like 300 million years old. Then, a different test was done, and it showed the fossil was only like 1,000-2500 years old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I already no my post is going to be disregarded with crap retorts, but seeing that I'm probably the only Christian on this forum, don't care.

 

 

 

 

 

There are other things that are flawed in your post, but I really really don't feel like debating them. Sorry. But, just a quick note, many creation stories all follow the Christian creation story, not that it was made in 7 days, or made by one man. BUT THAT THE GOD SPOKE AND THE DEEDS WERE DONE. That is exactly what the Christian creation story is about, and since I think it was like 50+ religions all follow that well.....

 

 

 

 

 

You figure it out.

 

 

 

Sorry I'm not in the mood to debate, I try to stay away from internet debates lol. Feel free to meet me in person to debate. LOL.

 

 

 

 

 

~Saru

 

 

 

Can we all avoid the creationsit websites that spew out this garbage rhetoric of the unreliablility of carbon dating when firstly it's not supposed to be used to date things greater than 60,000 years and secondly there are somewhere in the order of 40 other much more well respected and used radiometric dating techniques?

 

 

 

They take people for blubbering fools. They give you a very one sided story with no objectivity as to how accurate the other 39 or so dating methods are as if they mysteriously forgot about them. Well I'm telling you right now they haven't. They are using the argument they know will sway you the most. Truth is of no value or worth. They want your socially conditioned mind to dissolve to jelly so they can remould you at will and proliferate thier culture.

 

 

 

But hey, forgive my assumptions. If you show me your source and it turns out to be an unbiased one I'll apologise profusely.

[warri0r45]

When will we all learn, I can believe the Bible to a literal or symbolic sense and you can just not believe in the Bible, as long as we respect each others opinions, we're all happy, no lies needing to be made done, no insults needing to be thrown, so on so forth (why do I even bother :roll: )

 

 

 

Only if that were really the case. If someone just believes a literal interpretation of the bible and dosen't suggest it's truthful by manipulating and misrepresenting science, I'd hasten to say I wouldn't give a toss.

[Evrae]

When will we all learn, I can believe the Bible to a literal or symbolic sense and you can just not believe in the Bible, as long as we respect each others opinions, we're all happy, no lies needing to be made done, no insults needing to be thrown, so on so forth (why do I even bother :roll: )

 

 

 

Only if that were really the case. If someone just believes a literal interpretation of the bible and dosen't suggest it's truthful by manipulating and misrepresenting science, I'd hasten to say I wouldn't give a toss.

 

 

 

Exactly. Its when people use mistruths and lies that I take issue (mostly). I have no problem with other having their beliefs, but when they act on those beliefs, call me a liar and mislead children, then I get angry. :evil:

 

 

 

Ans Saruman - the issue with carbon dating has been covered already, and shown to be a false concern. It works within the limits it is designed for - dead carbon based life-forms, up to about 60000 years old. With a margin of error. And how the heck could a fossil be just 2500 years old? Was it a different carbon dating test? Or a different type of test?

 

Oh, I forgot - the fossil could be 2500 years old because of the magic power of god.

 

This is the problem with religion, it goes against everything that has been observed and discovered over the past 4000 years or so by some of the most intelligent people there have been.

 

 

 

Sorry if my retorts have been a bit 'crap', I think I think your arguments were a bit 'crap' in the first place.

 

 

 

Just because 50 or so religions believe something doesn't make it right. All it says to me is that religion is foolish. 'GOD SPOKE...' has to be the worst argument devised by man. Instead of saying 'I don't know - lets find out', you are saying 'I don't know - therefore god did it'. It is a lazy, discourages experimentation, free-thought and the aquisition of knowledge. I despise it for that reason.

[Satenza]

Christianity wasnt the first religion so if you think that saying "and 50+ other religions agree with the christian story!" then you can think again, since it's more likley Christianity is the one agreeing with a religion that existed prior to it.

[heartless619]

one thing id like to point out..im not sure how far this has come and all but..

 

Athiest here and agnostics are telling us christians to be open minded?

 

when...really you have to be open minded to think that maybe there is something out there..a greater being...so athiest and agnostics stop telling us to be so open minded when really your the ones being close minded...

 

 

 

with all your sayings...."well if i cant see it then its not real"

 

and some others if i stumble apon will post here

[llamster]

Despite being a devout Christian, I believe in what science says, not what the Bible says. I don't believe in evolution, because science has disproved it. I do believe that the universe is 14 billion years old, because science has proved it. The Bible does get a lot of things right, though.

[dutchdreams]

Interesting article on atheism/religion. which is part of this book

 

 

 

Conclusion in it:

 

 

 

 Based on a careful assessment of the most recent survey data available, we find that somewhere between 500,000,000 and 750,000,000 humans currently do not believe in God. Such figures render any suggestion that theism is innate or neurologically based untenable. The nations with the highest degrees of organic atheism (atheism which is not state-enforced through totalitarian regimes but emerges naturally among free societies) include most of the nations of Europe, as well as Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Israel. There also exist high degrees of atheism in Japan, Vietnam, North Korea, and Taiwan. Many former Soviet nations, such as Estonia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and Belarus also contain significant levels of atheism. Atheism is virtually non-existent in much of the world, however, especially among the most populated nations of Africa, South America, the Middle East, and much of Asia. High levels of organic atheism are strongly correlated with high levels of societal health, such as low homicide rates, low poverty rates, low infant mortality rates, and low illiteracy rates, as well as high levels of educational attainment, per capita income, and gender equality. Most nations characterized by high degrees of individual and societal security have the highest rates of organic atheism, and conversely, nations characterized by low degrees of individual and societal security have the lowest rates of organic atheism. In some societies, particularly Europe, atheism is growing. However, throughout much of the world ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ particularly nations with high birth rates ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ atheism is barely discernable. 

[Rebdragon]

one thing id like to point out..im not sure how far this has come and all but..

 

Athiest here and agnostics are telling us christians to be open minded?

 

when...really you have to be open minded to think that maybe there is something out there..a greater being...so athiest and agnostics stop telling us to be so open minded when really your the ones being close minded...

 

 

 

with all your sayings...."well if i cant see it then its not real"

 

and some others if i stumble apon will post here

 

No, I am an agnostic for the sole purpose of being open-minded. I believe it is possible that there is a god of some kind (or multiple), but I'm not so close-minded that I actually think I know the Truth. Most atheists admit to at least partially allowing that there could be an existence of some form of god as well, for none of us (NONE OF US, neither you nor I) know anything at all about the supernatural.

 

 

 

You are right in saying that it is close-minded to believe with all your heart that there can't be a god (though man-made gods can be logically disproved), but that's being just as close-minded as assuming that there has to be a god. Look at yourself before you start pointing fingers at others, m'kay?

[Defender2516]

one thing id like to point out..im not sure how far this has come and all but..

 

Athiest here and agnostics are telling us christians to be open minded?

 

when...really you have to be open minded to think that maybe there is something out there..a greater being...so athiest and agnostics stop telling us to be so open minded when really your the ones being close minded...

 

 

 

with all your sayings...."well if i cant see it then its not real"

 

and some others if i stumble apon will post here

 

No, I am an agnostic for the sole purpose of being open-minded. I believe it is possible that there is a god of some kind (or multiple), but I'm not so close-minded that I actually think I know the Truth. Most atheists admit to at least partially allowing that there could be an existence of some form of god as well, for none of us (NONE OF US, neither you nor I) know anything at all about the supernatural.

 

 

 

You are right in saying that it is close-minded to believe with all your heart that there can't be a god (though man-made gods can be logically disproved), but that's being just as close-minded as assuming that there has to be a god. Look at yourself before you start pointing fingers at others, m'kay?

 

 

 

Last I recall, its always the athiests pointing fingers calling Christians illogical, retarted, close minded feeble people just for believing in something they do not.

 

 

 

Maybe you should Also check your own hands.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure you will proceed to convince me that your clean. Convince away.

 

 

 

~Defender~

[heartless619]

one thing id like to point out..im not sure how far this has come and all but..

 

Athiest here and agnostics are telling us christians to be open minded?

 

when...really you have to be open minded to think that maybe there is something out there..a greater being...so athiest and agnostics stop telling us to be so open minded when really your the ones being close minded...

 

 

 

with all your sayings...."well if i cant see it then its not real"

 

and some others if i stumble apon will post here

 

No, I am an agnostic for the sole purpose of being open-minded. I believe it is possible that there is a god of some kind (or multiple), but I'm not so close-minded that I actually think I know the truth. Most atheists admit to at least partially allowing that there could be an existence of some form of god as well, for none of us (NONE OF US, neither you nor I) know anything at all about the supernatural.

 

 

 

You are right in saying that it is close-minded to believe with all your heart that there can't be a god (though man-made gods can be logically disproved), but that's being just as close-minded as assuming that there has to be a god. Look at yourself before you start pointing fingers at others, m'kay?

 

 

 

Ok first off i didn't say i didn't believe with all my heart..im still just as open minded...only i haven't found a very good reason to dump Christianity's..so please don't put words in my mouth and i don't believe i said anything like the first sentence in the 2nd paragraph of your response.

 

but now you do bring it up i do believe with all my heart..i just wants analyzing that part first...so i guess im just as close minded as the rest of you...since none of you will change your ways...with out very very definite proof...s

[Rebdragon]

Last I recall, its always the athiests pointing fingers calling Christians illogical, retarted, close minded feeble people just for believing in something they do not.

 

 

 

Maybe you should Also check your own hands.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure you will proceed to convince me that your clean. Convince away.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

I'm not an atheist, so I'm not sure this is directed at me...

 

 

 

Any athiests want to cover this? I don't want to get ya'll straw man'd or anything.

 

 

 

But Defender, as a quick side note- faith, by it's very definition, is illogical. There is no getting around that, and no arguing against it. It is meant to be illogical, for that is how it is portrayed as powerful.

 

 

 

but now you do bring it up i do believe with all my heart..i just wants analyzing that part first...so i guess im just as close minded as the rest of you...since none of you will change your ways...with out very very definite proof...s

 

Which was my point :-w .

 

 

 

I don't need proof to back up what I believe in, for I do not have any beliefs.

[Satenza]

 

 

one thing id like to point out..im not sure how far this has come and all but..

 

 

 

Athiest here and agnostics are telling us christians to be open minded?

 

 

 

when...really you have to be open minded to think that maybe there is something out there..a greater being...so athiest and agnostics stop telling us to be so open minded when really your the ones being close minded...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

with all your sayings...."well if i cant see it then its not real"

 

 

 

and some others if i stumble apon will post here

 

 

 

No, I am an agnostic for the sole purpose of being open-minded. I believe it is possible that there is a god of some kind (or multiple), but I'm not so close-minded that I actually think I know the Truth. Most atheists admit to at least partially allowing that there could be an existence of some form of god as well, for none of us (NONE OF US, neither you nor I) know anything at all about the supernatural.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are right in saying that it is close-minded to believe with all your heart that there can't be a god (though man-made gods can be logically disproved), but that's being just as close-minded as assuming that there has to be a god. Look at yourself before you start pointing fingers at others, m'kay?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Last I recall, its always the athiests pointing fingers calling Christians illogical, retarted, close minded feeble people just for believing in something they do not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, most religious people hold illogical beliefs ie. Christians who rely on the Bible as proof of their specific God, and some are "close minded" because they choose to accept a non-empirical way of gaining truth in favour of things like the Bible, moslty for illogical reasons. And choosing the Bible as infalliable truth over empiricism is slightly crazy.

[Evrae]

Despite being a devout Christian, I believe in what science says, not what the Bible says. I don't believe in evolution, because science has disproved it. I do believe that the universe is 14 billion years old, because science has proved it. The Bible does get a lot of things right, though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd be interested to know your source for evolution being disproved - please elaborate.

[Soulthresher]

I am just throwing out my views.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. The bible is written by mortals and has been altered by mortals over time.

 

 

 

2. Time is relevent to YOU. If the Earth wasn't created, there would be no measure of time in days unless you used some other planets measurements.

 

 

 

3. The bible is translated and therefore, many things are flawed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to add, even though I am not religous I do believe SOME religious teachings can be helpful in everyday lives. Those are the good things about it. The bad things...eh...can't get into now.

[warri0r45]

 

Despite being a devout Christian, I believe in what science says, not what the Bible says. I don't believe in evolution, because science has disproved it. I do believe that the universe is 14 billion years old, because science has proved it. The Bible does get a lot of things right, though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd be interested to know your source for evolution being disproved - please elaborate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It hasn't been. It's totally the opposite i.e. the overwhelming majority of the scientific community accepts it. I'm afraid to say he's either ignorant or lying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't take my word for it, ask a scientist. I'm confident they will reiterate my sentiments exactly.

[warri0r45]

one thing id like to point out..im not sure how far this has come and all but..

 

 

 

Athiest here and agnostics are telling us christians to be open minded?

 

 

 

when...really you have to be open minded to think that maybe there is something out there..a greater being...so athiest and agnostics stop telling us to be so open minded when really your the ones being close minded...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

with all your sayings...."well if i cant see it then its not real"

 

 

 

and some others if i stumble apon will post here

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think every atheist thinks this way? Let me enlighten you and everyone else as to what atheism fundamentally means. Everyone huddle round and listen up, this is important so we don't continue misrepresenting each other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The prefix 'a' means without or not.

 

 

 

The root 'theism' means the belief in the existance of a god or gods.

 

 

 

Thus, 'a-theism' means being without or not sharing a belief in the existance of a god or gods. Most people, however, choose to lump all atheism in with the group of people who believe that 'there is no god.' These people are strong atheists. They have an active belief where I, as adhering to the basic definition of atheism, merely lack belief because I am skeptical. I don't have belief that there is no god. There is a crucial difference here.

[Evrae]

 

 

Despite being a devout Christian, I believe in what science says, not what the Bible says. I don't believe in evolution, because science has disproved it. I do believe that the universe is 14 billion years old, because science has proved it. The Bible does get a lot of things right, though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd be interested to know your source for evolution being disproved - please elaborate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It hasn't been. It's totally the opposite i.e. the overwhelming majority of the scientific community accepts it. I'm afraid to say he's either ignorant or lying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't take my word for it, ask a scientist. I'm confident they will reiterate my sentiments exactly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats what I thought too. The evolutionary principle ('survival of the fittest' if you like) is easily demonstrated. I could probably knock up a computer program to show that it works. All that then remains to be found is a method of data transferral. And I'm pretty sure that scientists discovered this thing called DNA...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, I think he's deluded.

[hellbellz]

 

 

 

Well, most religious people hold illogical beliefs ie. Christians who rely on the Bible as proof of their specific God, and some are "close minded" because they choose to accept a non-empirical way of gaining truth in favour of things like the Bible, moslty for illogical reasons. And choosing the Bible as infalliable truth over empiricism is slightly crazy.

The Bible is pretty much just there to tell us to do good deeds, such as be a good neighbor, love your enemy, etc. Are those crazy?