Lets Talk Wilderness...

No, this isn't a whiny topic, but rather, I would like to see a proper discussion about the Wilderness, whats wrong, and what needs to be adressed. If people start saying "X is overpowerd" or "Y is broken", I think we should all ignore it.

What I want to address, is who and why people go into the wilderness, what can be done about it. Pkers want to PK, but we need more people to take the risk, and go into the wilderness, only to not run away again.

I'm not a PK'er by the way...

I think the current system is fine, but we need to address the *reasons* we go into the wilderness...

Lets come up with the common ones why someone would be wildy roaming, and would not want to be killed:

1. Mining (That was the central reason I spent a week living in the wilderness and edgeville.)

2. Treasure Trails (Luckily I haven't had to go in for one of these yet).

3. Training on Greaters/Ice Warriors/Giants (Mostly F2P, to avoid the traditional crowds).

4. Slaying Green/Red dragons for slayer, or fighting the KBD for s**ts and giggles.

5. Lava maze (hey, I used to love that place, still do, it's a fun distraction).

6. Runecrafters and the Abyss

Now, lets adress what happens when a PKer attacks one of these chaps.

1. Miner - They usually have a pickaxe, rune chainmail, and another weapon/kite sheild. Sometimes they may take useless (bronze/iron/steel/mith) armour with them that they can stand to lose if they die. Usually without food, sometimes with tele runes. Always with prayer.

Attacking a Miner, will cause them to run, pray or tele. Sometimes you get some hits in, othertimes they get a hit or two in. Result, you lose some HP, and make no gain. Bummer.

2. Treasure Trailers. Again, usually 3-iteming, full prayer and tele runes. Lets face it, they don't want to die. They will go out of their way to avoid combat. You won't get a kill off them, and will usually be wasting time/runes/arrows.

3. Folks training on the mid/high level monsters will have food, armour, runes, etc. Some of them will be 3-iteming, but hopefully the fact that they are so deep in means you can trap them, or kill them before they can get away or get into tele range. Again, most of them are not going to stick around for a fight, but if you get a kill, they might drop some armour/weapons/food/runes/arrows/monster drops.

4. The dragon hunters are likely going to run, or log at even the threat of a pker. The best bet here are the mages, as they can bind or teleblock. Otherwise, they are too valuble to hang around for a fight, as they are usually with their best weapons/armour/food, and don't want to die. Especially not if they also have nice dragon-drops, like bones and/or hides.

5. If you can trap them at the end of the maze where the lessers are, and not have them log out, then they are essentially trapped. However, most *smart* mazers (I like training on the lessers and nabbing the steel plate when it pops up), will see someone coming, and world hop before you get within cooee of them. The only time I have been attacked in the maze, was when I was wandering through, and some little upstart mage on the outside tried to zap me. I had some fire runes from the lessers, some mind runes from god-knows where, and an air staff (for teleing), so I started zapping back. He ran away.

6. Honestly, who in their right mind fights people going to or from the abyss... Most of the time they are going to be wearing dragon-hide and have tele runes. If you manage to get in a teleblock without them noticing, they will run like hell. Get a bind in, and while you are trying to put teleblock on them, they have already teled out of there. On the off chance you catch one, and pin them down, they might drop some runes. Wow.

Now, I'm not a PK'er, this is just my observing, hanging around the willderness, reading various posts by various users with various opinions on the wildy. Such posts range from "OMG TELETUBBIES AND PRAYER NOOBS SHULD BE BANZOReD OMG!!!111one" to "I got attacked in the wildy and died, mage/ranger/melee is so overpowered", and all the ones in between.

What *I* want to see, is more of another type of person going into the wilderness. The adventurer. When I was a lot younger (speaking in runescape terms here), I used to go into the wilderness, and camp at the saph house. That was my main source of wealth in RSC. I would smith myself up full bronze, grab a full invy of trout, and go in and fight the spiders at the saph house. I used to get pked, and sometimes I would die, othertime I would make it out a-ok.

The lure?

Treasure :D. The items that spawn in the wilderness should be enough to lure people into the wilderness to try and obtain these things. Guard such items with high level monsters, so poeple can't just run in with leather armour, grab a full invy, and run out again.

So far, the most valuable spawns I have encountered are the sapphire and the steel plate. Whoo, how appealing. The pkers in the wildy, are all lvl 30/40 and up. The people attracted to such items, are, AT MOST, lvl 30. This is why there is nobody to pk but pkers.

Look, these thoughts are by no means the be all and end all of it all, but hopefully we can have a POSITIVE discussion about this, rather than more arguments that class X is over powered, or whatever...

May I remind you, I have only killed one person. I'm showing my friend the wilderness. My friend is lvl 22. We're in lvl 40 wilderness, and some little upsatrt (he was about level 35) runs up and follows us. He starts off with "free stuff plz". I tell him to bugger off, so he starts laying into my friend. I tell my friend to run *north*, towards the rune rocks (and thus, a multi-combat zone). He breaks north, and this guy goes "OMG noob, I kill you now". Hehe. I ran after him, and smashed the living snot out of our noobie friend.

Only time I have ever pk'ed, and it was only to save my friend. So, hopefully we can have a proper discussion about the wilderness, seeing as it's not a pk-er or a pk-hater starting the discussion.

how about 3 iteming afkers?

nice post....

how about 3 iteming afkers?

 

 

 

nice post....

Hehe, I don't count them, because they don't really participate in the wilderness. Just bug people.

I'd love travelling around the wildy, for good RANDOM drops, such as low-mid level rune items, such as mace, sq shield, and maybe short helm(sp?)

To stop campers stealing all the items, they should pop up in random places, luring more and more people in :D

I'd love travelling around the wildy, for good RANDOM drops, such as low-mid level rune items, such as mace, sq shield, and maybe short helm(sp?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To stop campers stealing all the items, they should pop up in random places, luring more and more people in :D

Hmm, perhaps not rune, but Mithril and Addy items wouldn't be too bad a stretch. The rune items would have to be REALLY deep, and guarded by god-knows what...

well actually when i was a level 3 noob i ran into wildy picked up like 10 pl8s 2 steel swords and couple of water staffs and blted out of there

i made around 10k its actually easy to make money in wild and haveing mith and addy might mess it up

well actually when i was a level 3 noob i ran into wildy picked up like 10 pl8s 2 steel swords and couple of water staffs and blted out of there

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i made around 10k its actually easy to make money in wild and haveing mith and addy might mess it up

Go back.

Read my post.

Here, allow me to highlight it for you...

So far, the most valuable spawns I have encountered are the sapphire and the steel plate. Whoo, how appealing. The pkers in the wildy, are all lvl 30/40 and up. The people attracted to such items, are, AT MOST, lvl 30. This is why there is nobody to pk but pkers.

Hell, read just that paragraph, then consider replying and contributing to the discussion... I'm trying to have a proper discussion here, not just a whinefest...

I will adress your point about addy and mith "mucking" things up. IF you back your point up with some logic to make this wild claim a point. I stated that such items should be guarded by suitably high level monsters, or challenges (perhaps an agility obstable over to a trapdoor, with said monsters and an item spawn under that trap door? That certainly adresses the point of telegrab being used to avoid the monsters).

nice post by the way.

A couple of points. Firstly my wilderness experience is generally un uphappy one. I tend to get pked a lot esp at green dragons, and often i die. I tend to use the wildy now for 2 things: getting white berries at red drags (which i have also been pked at) and runecrafting. I have never killed anyone in wildy either. I've been to agil course once and rogues house once for pickpocketing, but generally I dont bother going that high.

Regarding runecrafting, I dont take any tele runes with me except ammy of glory, but it is hard to tele away quicky as i have a full inv of ess, ss i have to drop ess, take off ammy, rub it, and then try to get away. So I think that entangle is very effective against runecrafters as you almost certainly have time to cast teleblock before they get run run away. I dont bother doing mass runecrafting if there are pkers around as i cant afford to lose my pouches. They take ages to get back from abyssal monsters, and in my view are more useful than the drag hide i'm wearing at the time.

My final point is about treasure trails. I've never done one in the wildy before, but i'm sure that I will at some point. surely you cannot 3-item for a trail? you need spade, clue, watch, sextant, chart, plate, legs + wep (to fight zammy wizard). you might also need food, tele runes, ring of life etc. Surely you have a good chance of getting something off them, especially if they have just completed their clue.

anyways thats all i have to add. I agree with your post generally. personally, i'd like to be more adventurous, but the amount of pkers just puts me off training or item grabbing in the wild.

First of all i wanted to say that i really really liked your post, it almost got me killed (i was reading it while training in RS)

and as far for the "random popping up items" i think thats a great idea,

it would be even better if they used mith and addy items, that way wildy would be alot crowdyer ;P

that was all i hope i didnt botherd y'all

[genesiss]

Now we're talking!

A couple of points. Firstly my wilderness experience is generally un uphappy one. I tend to get pked a lot esp at green dragons, and often i die. I tend to use the wildy now for 2 things: getting white berries at red drags (which i have also been pked at) and runecrafting. I have never killed anyone in wildy either. I've been to agil course once and rogues house once for pickpocketing, but generally I dont bother going that high.

I must admit, the wilderness features are not all used very much, due to the risk of being pked. I think it is a very valid risk, but not one people are willing to explore, or experience for themselves...

Regarding runecrafting, I dont take any tele runes with me except ammy of glory, but it is hard to tele away quicky as i have a full inv of ess, ss i have to drop ess, take off ammy, rub it, and then try to get away. So I think that entangle is very effective against runecrafters as you almost certainly have time to cast teleblock before they get run run away. I dont bother doing mass runecrafting if there are pkers around as i cant afford to lose my pouches. They take ages to get back from abyssal monsters, and in my view are more useful than the drag hide i'm wearing at the time

I find the best time to visit the abyss is late at night, when everyone has gone to bed. Generally, when the worlds are all less crowded, there are less people around.

However, I can't understand why people want to pk runecrafers anyway? They are so low in the wildy level, and really won't want to stay around for the fight, so it just seems to be a waste of time to me... Hoping that someone within 5 levels of you will wander up and die for you...

My final point is about treasure trails. I've never done one in the wildy before, but i'm sure that I will at some point. surely you cannot 3-item for a trail? you need spade, clue, watch, sextant, chart, plate, legs + wep (to fight zammy wizard). you might also need food, tele runes, ring of life etc. Surely you have a good chance of getting something off them, especially if they have just completed their clue.

Ah, I wasn't aware that the sextant, chart and watch were needed. I thought the wildy clues were maps, or directions. Of course. Although, how much of that stuff will actually drop. Say they get a bad clue, they are going to drop food/telerunes and perhaps the ring of life. They wouldn't have much food on them anyway, to save room for the reward...

I just don't see pking treasure trailers paying off. 90% of them would get away, and then you would have to kill a lot of the 10% of them to get one that got a good clue.

anyways thats all i have to add. I agree with your post generally. personally, i'd like to be more adventurous, but the amount of pkers just puts me off training or item grabbing in the wild.

Perhaps if there were better items out there, making the risk worthwhile?

First of all i wanted to say that i really really liked your post, it almost got me killed (i was reading it while training in RS)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and as far for the "random popping up items" i think thats a great idea,

 

 

 

it would be even better if they used mith and addy items, that way wildy would be alot crowdyer ;P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

that was all i hope i didnt botherd y'all

I'm glad you like my idea. The random spawns item was coined by Triplets_KGB though, I can't take credit for that part :). With more people going into the wildy to grab these items, there would be more people for pkers to kill, which should cut down on their whining, and it would give non-pkers more of a reason to go into the wildy in the first place.

"wilderness is a dangerous place but also its more treasure to be found" what treasure? i would like it to be like some more hihger level monsters and maybe something thats possible to earn something on.

i cant mine runite so count that out.

"wilderness is a dangerous place but also its more treasure to be found" what treasure? i would like it to be like some more hihger level monsters and maybe something thats possible to earn something on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i cant mine runite so count that out.

Exactly what this topic is about! Suggestions?

I think that the whole idea of having things in the Wilderness to "lure" people in is flawed.

The original idea was that the Wilderness would be a place where people could go when they wished to fight other players. If there were no "lures", then some PKers would still go in there with the intention of hunting other PKers.

But some PKers seem to prefer killing people who lack the equipment or ability to fight back, even if they don't drop very much. I suppose there's less risk that way. But I don't think it makes sense to encourage it.

I think that the whole idea of having things in the Wilderness to "lure" people in is flawed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The original idea was that the Wilderness would be a place where people could go when they wished to fight other players. If there were no "lures", then some PKers would still go in there with the intention of hunting other PKers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But some PKers seem to prefer killing people who lack the equipment or ability to fight back, even if they don't drop very much. I suppose there's less risk that way. But I don't think it makes sense to encourage it.

Extremely well said. Everyone who plays Runescape should read that paragraph. I can't say enough how much I agree with that.

lpinkus

The wilderness could do with some better drops as said before, that would make it much more worthwhile to actually risk one's own hide. Maybe some items or monsters which you can only find in the wilderness would incite some more interest in the wild for non-PKers?

They've done well to stop many of the problems in the wilderness with teleblock however they still haven't solved the problem of protect praying. Another problem is that the NPCs act as other players so it's easy to get away from someone simply by running through some NPCs in single.

Perhaps add some expensive ranger armour as well.

I also would like to see some more useful places in the wilderness so more people go in the wilderness. Apart from the mage bank, greater demons to rune rocks and green dragons the wilderness is completely empty, maybe they could make it smaller or even better make some useful areas such as good thieving spots or a good fishing spot and by placing these areas in the deserted parts of the wilderness you could perhaps bring the risky trainer out into the wild.

I'd also like to see clan support added. Simply add a section in the secure section in which you can join etc and then you get added to a list of members, you could have a seperate chat box to talk to your clan mates, much like a PM but sent to all the members of the clan at the same time. There could also be a section in the hiscores which lists your current clan. Once they've added the basics of clan support they can build on that with perhaps tournaments or clan-specific capes.

 

I also would like to see some more useful places in the wilderness so more people go in the wilderness. [ ... ]

 

 

 

I'd also like to see clan support added. [ ... ] Once they've added the basics of clan support they can build on that with perhaps tournaments or clan-specific capes.

Nice suggestions. I thought we might see (and would still love to see) more clan support , but as they say on the Suggestions Forum rules, talk about clans and/or suggestions for more clan support is a topic that Jagex has chosen to ignore for the time being. May be they've already planned to add some in the near or distant future.

We can't know and I fear we probably won't see clan support any-time soon.

This is what prompted some of us to look for something that would be easier to implement, but still effective enough to support the different types of codes that many clans run by. Some clans refuse to PK so called 'innocents', people in the Wilderness just to adventure, or who must go on a quest, or are rune ore mining to feed the greater economy of Runescape.

On that continuum, there are those among these people, who feel, that attacking weaker players is beneath them, therefore they passively support Anti-Random PKing, by PKing only those ready and seeking battle; and ignoring the non-battle ready or those cowardly enough to run.

And there are of course those, whom many players feel, dominate the Wilderness now, who seek to kill almost every one, they can PK who comes across their path, for fun and/or profit. They would kill even those who dearly wish not to fight. The so-called Random PKers.

 

I must admit, the wilderness features are not all used very much, due to the risk of being PKed. I think it is a very valid risk, but not one people are willing to explore, or experience for themselves...

There is quite a bit of treasure to be had, but I must admit there's still quite I've only salivated about in guides. Like many players there's plenty of places I rarely, if ever go in carrying good drops: why take a ridiculous risk with all those hard earned playing hours?

How can we allow players to control that risk better for themselves without having to change Random PKing itself? We can save Random PKing from a slow painful decline (why would anyone be posting about this if it wasn't an issue) by possibly giving support these other styles of play. By allowing players to choose for themselves to become more or less law-abiding according to their personal preferences of play.

The one issue stopping this from catching on between a few more players, is that it's hard to get ANY level of trust among players. With potential back-stabbings aside, the fact that ANY other player at any-time, even long-time online friends, can kill you often via a mistaken click, is a huge disincentive for a good percentage players; just a read the official polls on Runescape.

Clan capes went a little way to addressing this; but unfortunately this hasn't helped a majority of players since you still can't TRUST someone given the anonymous nature of Runescape; and in the Wilderness anyone who CAN kill you is likely someone you can NEVER trust. Hence why they're not in wide use among a larger spectrum of players.

I don't see any of this as a reason to remove Random Player Killing. These players should continue to have the choice to randomly kill anyone in the Wilderness at all. I just feel that players who don't wish to act in that fashion, should be able to choose not to be random killers of other players at all, or at least not killers of other designated types.

This might have the effect of encouraging more players to explore & gather treasure since they've taken the time to insure themselves by gathering only players they can trust. This thereby ensures there will be more players carrying worthwhile drops.

These law-abiding players, who are currently very rare in the Wilderness, could then have the choice to work together given they've all accepted a code. I've posted such a Wilderness Player Type System here on these boards, and I am helping Texas Blade on the Runescape Boards to try to bring in more Wilderness Player Types.

Thanks to Raichase and those who've been very engaging here.

Nicely writen up and said though I do find it as a complete waste of time for you to type all of that up.... :?

Nicely writen up and said though I do find it as a complete waste of time for you to type all of that up.... :?

Thanks. I think :oops:

I get that a lot. Don't people write anymore? I blame emoticons :evil:

I actually cut it down from something at 3 times that length. I guess that's what happens if you do University. Writing all those 5000+ word essays gets one into the habit of elaboration :roll:

Hey Fey_Warrior, please don't "bump"(reply to old topics made weeks ago) old topics.

Nicely writen up and said though I do find it as a complete waste of time for you to type all of that up.... :?

This is an internet forum, for discussions, not some little text message chat with your "bestie". It's for the putting down of well thought out ideas, and the discussion of that.

Don't want to take the time, then go 1337 speek in WoW or something.

Nicely writen up and said though I do find it as a complete waste of time for you to type all of that up.... :?

 

Thanks. I think :oops:

 

 

 

I get that a lot. Don't people write anymore? I blame emoticons :evil:

Not if they don't have to. It's todays generation. If it doesn't fit into the screen of a mobile phone, it's too long, and they skim it. then they raise the obvious points already covered, and get defensive when you point out their complete ignorance.

Don't worry, I read it, and appreciated the reply.

Hey Fey_Warrior, please don't "bump"(reply to old topics made weeks ago) old topics.

Hey, Captain Kiddo. Please actually THINK before posting. It's only topic digging if the topic is brought back again for a stupid comment like "lol" or "yeah man" or "u surk".

When a topic is brought back for legitimate reasons to continue a discussion, it's far better than posting a new topic with a link back to the old one.

Besides, one could argue it is far more counter-productive to post stupid little comments like yours, than it is to bring up a dead thread to contribute to it.

Knowing the system it would be to hard to have the objects appear anywhere in the wilderness. That would be due to the curves etc in the ground. Sure it could be done but they would never take the time. However it would be possible to have a few random "spawn points" scattered around in the deeper wilderness. Then one of the 10 spawn points HAS the item.

For treasures in the wilderness, the first thing that comes to my mind is a treasure chest. However, how did you find the lava maze and why did you want to go in it? Because you SAW it and you SAW the items there.

Thats why there should be a island in some lava. Now on that small island is a rare beast, called the Giant Crow. It finds shiny things all over runescape and brings them there. behind this powerful beast are three chests, but under/near that powerful beast is what draws noobs and high levels alike nearer. It is a rune/addy item. However if you attempt to tele-grab it the message pops up "The bird is in the way".

Next to the chest is a ladder, by now your thinking "every guide will beable to tell everyone how to get to the end" how ever there is a ladder on the other side of the lava next to you. That is where you quest begins.

Part 1

Once you climb down the ladder there are 10 cave enterences. Only one allows you through to the next place. (It is multi-combat in here.) The correct one is random, changing everytime YOU enter. You have a 1/10 chance of continuing but a 9/10 chance of you appearing at the surface somewhere at random in the wilderness.

Now here is the catch.

If you have a ring of life, you chances of getting the right one changes to 1/5.

If you have a 7 items of mithral weapon or armor your chances increase by 20%.

If you have 6 items of addy, your chances increase to by 30%.

If you have 5 items of rune on you then your chances increase by 40%

P2

Then if you choose the correct tunnel then you appear at a junction. There at this junction you can see two paths. There you have a 50-50 chance of the right way. Once choosing your path iron gates come from the celing and lock you in. IF you go the wrong way you get a random item with value equaling 1k and you must battle a random monster under the level of 40 or escape by climbing up the sides. Then you have the same end as before.

#3

If you go the correct way you end up at 5 ladders. One goes to the KBD's lair, in the room before you go into where it is. Another (#2) goes to the greater demons. Another (#3) goes to the center of the lava maze. Another (#4) goes to the runite. And #5 goes to the place with the giant crow. If you choose the wrong path this time you get an item(s) of value of 10k.

The End

However if you took the right way then:

"It appears you have startled the giant crow (level 400), you better grab what your going to take in less than 15 seconds!" *A timer appears in the cornor and the count down begins.* First you grab the item on the ground. Then you have to break into the chests, which is very diffucult.

(People on the otherside are now allowed to telegrab once you pick up the item on the ground.)

Now you attempt to open the chests but they are extremly hard to open. One has the image of a rune in gold, another has the image of a sword in gold and the last has an image of an arrow in gold. To open them you must attack the chest with the correct skill.

IF you dont it will say "I think I should attack with ______ instead of ________ ." If you had examined them (which you can from the other side of the lava) it would have said "I think I should attack this with _______"

Also if you had brought a spade there are sacks/small chests/boxes burried under the ground. You could have dug them up. They would contain an item:

Chest/Box/Sack

*Item(s) of 1k ~ 40%

*Item(s) of 4k ~ 20%

*Item(s) of 6k~ 15%

*Item(s) of 8k ~ 15%

*Item(s) of 10k ~ 5%

*Item(s) of 12k~ 2%

*Item(s) of 14k~ 2%

*Item(s) of 50k ~ .5%

*Item(s) of 100k~ .5%

Once time runs out you must flee other wise the bird lands and begins to attack you with melee. You must escape back down the ladder, only this time it doesnt lead you to where you had just came from but to the enterence. Did i mention that this was located at the deepest in free wildy?

Edit: I spaced everything out a little more so it didnt look like a jumbled mess...and dont complain about it being so long, just dont read it if you want to complain...

Very nice thread. But I know why it is Pkers generally attack and kill Abyss crafters and clue scrollers: They like the control. Everybody likes to have control over somebody or something. It's a natural pleasure in controlling the life and activities of one thing. Pkers like to kill things smaller than them, thus having control over them. Same thing irl. Bullies have control over smaller kids than them.

Very nice thread. But I know why it is Pkers generally attack and kill Abyss crafters and clue scrollers: They like the control. Everybody likes to have control over somebody or something. It's a natural pleasure in controlling the life and activities of one thing. Pkers like to kill things smaller than them, thus having control over them. Same thing irl. Bullies have control over smaller kids than them.

Very perceptive observations. All very true, hence the reason why we don't want to 'take that away from them at all'. Random PKers shouldn't feel threatened by this proposal. We want them to keep playing this way: this player type will provide the opposition that all Avengers seek.

In turn Avengers will provide the courageous opposition they've been complaining they can't find since everyone is currently afraid of Random PKers to the point of ridiculousness, instead: Avengers will provide the challenge Random PKers been seeking in the Wilderness - people who won't tele or run - for an Avenger dying for a cause is 'part' of the fun.

Since the Wilderness Player Type changes are purely voluntary: ONLY those players who wish to take on those killing 'restrictions' will notice any difference directly to the way they play - as one player on the "2 Types of PKer" thread on the Runescape Suggestion Forums asked:

What is the advantage of being an Avenger? Pardon me if I read incorrectly, but the only difference I saw between a pker and an Avenger was that Avengers could only attack certain people. I just fail to see the point.

Like you, the originator of this thread understood, what Random PKers enjoy; the kind of players Avenging will attract makes them different:

You cannot kill a random person for "fun" as so many people do. People know your not a bully.

The fun for Avengers is in the challenge of saving other 'new' and less able players in the Wilderness (Adventurers): be they true newbies or simply miners or questers. There's of those of us that like to play helper, or protector of the innocent and weak. Some might even consider themselves heros.

It might make being a psycho killer 'more' exciting since us do-gooders won't be wearing the skull icon any more.

Random PKers you should back this!

Sorry. Posted the screenshots in the wrong thread.

For the screen shots of the proposed system look here.

Regards,

Fey Warrior