Fey_Warrior

I recommend players check the GE again... A friend and I checked what's they're selling at... and I've had one listed at max price for over an hour now. They're no longer selling at maximum price in the GE, but for around 15,813 GP... and possibly may start selling at market price (GE) and lower. It may be that the so-called 'merchant clan' leaders have dumped early already, and the rest have only just caught on...so it seems unlikely, if the buy-out-all pattern doesn't resume, the 'predicted price' was not only a myth or overly confident but possibly a blatant lie to the members of these groups.

What I wish though is for players who support different Fansites to be supportive of the whole RuneScape Fansite community rather than being advocates of one or another site: * General > Fansite support information * Quick find code: 14-15-436-58600794 I won't express and opinion about this other than the fact that if I saw a problem with either Tip.It or the other Fansites I do have accounts on, I'd raise it with the owners/administrators of the site first rather than posting things that could potentially damage the reputation of that Fansite. Thankfully though most players have been great and not sought to bring others down in order to elevate those they prefer. That's one reason why I've not specifically mentioned any sites regarding this issue, as I realise that sites can change, and things have improved in general with this initiative, which has been great to see. *sighs* ~ Fey

The white-list of fan-site that can be named on the RuneScape Official Forums (RSOF) is here: * General > Fansite support information * Quick find code: 14-15-436-58600794 This list was added on the 12th of May on: * Page 26 of that thread Of course sites listed will be ones that make all efforts to remove and combat Terms of Service breaking material, while sites that don't obviously will not be getting listed. It's possible that a site might be removed later if problems arise that can't be solved, or if it falls into the wrong hands, but those issues will be dealt with privately by Jagex, and hopefully there'll be a place to report such issues confidentially soon, that don't involve public disavowal that we've seen on that sticky since the white-list was added. This should encourage more fan-sites of the calibre of Tip.It to flourish. Sites that promote cheating/exploits and support RWT/Hack-sites may find it difficult to get listed, unless they're prepared to address any issues that Jagex may raise with them. Hopefully more sites follow Tip.It's example, which to my mind has been a solid one over the years I've been a user of this fan-site. ~ Fey edit: one too many uses of the word 'hopefully' - fixed.

This is why the RSOF won't get updates given the member response to a recent poll: * Community > Polls > Poll Archive > Forum Focus (21-Jan-2009) Members with their low, and decreasing forum usage (ever since the GE update), plus their responses to polls like this, have expressed to Jagex they don't want their member dollar being spent on updates for the forums. Yet the complain about the RSOF not being attractive enough and lacking interesting features. So obviously they're giving Jagex contrary messages: they want updates to the forum, but they don't want their membership dollar spent on updating them? So when Jagex decides it needs to do something about the under-utilisation of the forums, in order to justify giving them more funding, the response is sadly as contradictory. This is what blows my mind here since it does not make sense to then protest against a measure to increase forum usage, by the way of bringing on board F2P users, who do come with funding: * http://www.marketwire.com/press-release ... 48054.html * http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/featu ... 017/?biz=1 * http://www.developmag.com/interviews/20 ... -RuneScape Being the most searched for and visited MMO site on the web (yes, even more than WoW) potentially makes the 'free' game of RuneScape a very large share of that 600 million (USD) spent in the online gaming market. And given Membership fees make a maximum of around 60 to 66 million (USD), there's a definitely potential that as the rated No. 1 MMO the loins share of that 600 million is going to Jagex, making F2Ps contribution likely self-funding if not a net contributor to RuneScape as a whole. Sadly it seems the message Members are sending to Jagex, is don't want anything but a few crumbs spent on the forums, but in a twisted irony now they don't want anyone else using them either? Crummy huh? So if these disgruntled Members to either succeed in driving the new F2P users or getting Jagex to remove them, any funding part of a funding pie that may have come with F2P user will evaporate leaving members with their crumbs in tact. So the result may again be there is little or no development funding allocated to updating them, and the RSOF will wallow as the most underutilised and least updated 'member' features. It's clear example of not wanting something, unless someone else wants it; then when they get it back, they toss it in the corner again :wall:

I feel some users here might be interested in reading a response I posted to a discouraged F2Per, who like many on the forums may have been browbeaten into believing they don't have a place on the forums, and sadly might not use the chance to improve things RuneScape which Jagex wanted them to do. I'd like to say that isn't the case. The argument that F2P doesn't pay for itself, let alone wouldn't pay it's way handsomely on the RSOF is a misleading one I've attempted to debunk here: * Forum Feedback > Avoid Spam by F2P * Quick find code: 28-29-75-58659538 While I'm not 100% on the details, the fact is that the channel advertising deal with Jagex *is* a substantial one, and in these hard economic times when fewer might be likely to find the money for an online game in increasingly tight budgets, the F2P side of RuneScape could become an even bigger earner for Jagex. Sadly, there are Members on the forums who don't read the MMO Industry News, and aren't aware of just how valuable the F2P player is to Jagex, and that's more than likely why Jagex has added forum access given Jagex wants to promote and improve it's free game. Please don't let the short-sightedness of a few disgruntled members, stunt the game, and as a result potentially harm both the growth of F2P and Member games.

While Mod MMG hasn't promised anything (nothing I can discuss here anyway) he seems to be inclined into improving the usefulness of RuneScape Forums, given they're now the major channel for delivering a lot of Customer Support since the previous CEO removed the "Other" query option. You might want to read this thread here: * Forum Feedback > Free 2 Play on forums * Quick find code: 28-29-986-58651538 (see my response on Page 5 Post 10) ...where I posted a response in more detail about that Elishot 8-)

Sadly all my old friends have moved onto other games and now all would be F2P, if I invited them back to play. Hopefully if even the improvement Jagex suggests happens and more updates occur for F2P that will mean they can get a few more things in a year for non-Members; it won't be a lot but hopefully it'll be something more every so often. While F2p will never be like Members, which is premium content, it may be just enough to keep players interested in the free game. Jagex has said it recognises that F2P is not just a demo, but a legitimate part of RuneScape in itself. Hopefully they're able to resolve any issues with 'animated' banners seriously affecting F2P performance without causing a great loss in income from F2P Worlds. That might mean players won't go out of their way to break Rule 15, meaning even more funding for F2P updates. So hopefully with a few more updates, F2P becomes more popular, and this funds the advertising stream even further. It will be hard for F2P to get more though given F2P is supporting something like 5 times the numbers of members. Overall RuneScape is meant to have over 6 million active players - but the Advertising from F2P Worlds has to support all those services (hardware, bandwidth & support staff) for over 5 million players which doesn't leave a lot, I imagine, for funding F2P updates by development staff, especially in these tough economic times. A good tip might be then: is to ensure you & your friends have computer systems (for those who can afford them) that is capable of running the Advertisements, since for every player that blocks them that's another player who then needs to join to make up for the resources that aren't being funded. I'll see what I can do personally about getting the Advertisements fixed so the Flash Ads can stay on low-detail (since I know that's hard on even my Pentium 4 Laptop in High Detail mode - it's video card is only an older Intel Chipset). A further tip might be: To take the time to report those advertisements that do slow your system down; which I used to do a lot even as a member, but I've been too busy recently to spend much time on F2P worlds. I used to visit them a lot when bot-hunting before bots became so rare I couldn't find them any more :P More players enjoying the game & the community is hopefully what this change heralds though, and the Free Game, may be just what keeps RuneScape growing while some other more expensive MMOs might lose subscription numbers. Cheers, ~ Fey

Don't pay no heed to those who post with unreasoned prejudice. By unreasoned, I mean those who simply flame. There may be some who may not like the change and you may have to enter into a discussion with them as to the actual benefits this may end up bringing to members by this inclusive policy of Mod MMG's. Those players can be talked around if you are patient enough. Just keep a steady hand and don't let yourself be baited into flame. We volunteer mods there may be small in number but we do have the support the greater majority of the RSOF posters, who are in fact welcoming F2P posters. The few who are resentful and act-out are only going to end up not being able to post themselves and may also cause problems for their in-game accounts if they persist in being abusive (thank the RuneScape gods for Rule 14!) ~ Fey

Some good news: They've put Game Feedback's icon back, and moved the *new* Rants to the bottom of the Feedback section. This obviously means Game Feedback is here to stay \ A small victory for those RSOFers who actually want to post in a forum where the quality of ones feedback is important. In other news though: the *new* Rants is also here to stay by the looks of things, and given Game Feedback is the place Jagex wants players to post well managed & detailed threads on solutions to in-game problems, the *new* Rants is relegated to being a forum for venting about anything and everything in RuneScape that ails a player. So when posting in the *new* Rants, it's best to be prepared for spammy responses, flame and the like. And the necromancy used on it has other consequences, that while immune to most normal moderation (so threads will flow freely but rapidly without any rhyme or reason); so you also won't be able to ask for or get much help from mods unless you have a seriously evil or vile poster on your thread. Those who wish to engage in severe vileness should be warned though, given that forum is being managed directly by Jagex staff (volunteers avoid it now), any vileness will be dealt with harshly. I might remark though, that the a lot of the threads or posts that you now see in the *new* Rants, if they're posted elsewhere on the RSOF will: either be locked, hidden or if not totally against the Code of Conduct, moved to Rants. So the *new* Rants style posting won't be allowed elsewhere on the forums. I guess every RuneScape related site, including RuneScape itself has to have it's Rants forum.

Sorry to disappoint you but things have changed drastically for volunteer forum moderators on the RSOF (and there are very few Player Mods that are Dual Mods who can help with them too) so that's why there's little or no moderator action to help in the *new* Rants. The *old* Compliments forum was flawed, in that the FSR didn't allow, nor did it encourage useful feedback, since anyone disagreeing with a Compliments thread was essentially breaking the rules. It was nigh a useful forum except for cookie threads, and really is no different from the 'Jagex Lite' forum you can now find on the Fun Orb forums. It served little or no purpose for getting useful player feedback. Essentially the old rants was transformed, thanks to the help of a lot of players on threads like these in Forum Feedback, into the Game Feedback forum. It was entirely possible to post compliments to Jagex, and complain about problems still, but the format of the forum encourage posters to take responsibility for their own threads. Good threads were rewarded with Jagex staff posts responding to the feedback, as well as the fantastic threads being stickied on a weekly basis. Overall Game Feedback was beginning to work fine, as far as the players who posted there were concerned. The Game Feedback forum, was created by players for players. It was (and still is for the time being) a great place to have a balanced discussion about in-game features. You were now allowed to disagree freely with another players idea (unlike in the *old* Compliments), and it was encouraged to enrich threads with different points of view, be they a compliment or complaint about features in RuneScape. The forum thread on which players worked with Jagex for over a year to build Game Feedback into a forum that resembled some of the better forums on fansites, for posting quality was here: * RuneScape Forums > Forum Feedback > Merging the Opposites * Quick find code: 28-29-511-48687964 Now the *new* Rants allows basically anyone to post without giving a thought for why they're posting other than that they're annoyed by something: * Home > News List > Rants forum returns The problem with this is that a growing number of regular posters who still cared about the RSOF now see a huge spam issue developing, but they've received no Jagex staff feedback on their concerns. So as for it opening up communication with Jagex, as far as the regular RSOF player community is concerned, the jury is definitely still out on whether this was a good thing or not. One thing is for sure, I'm not sure the Tip-It community would appreciate Jagex over-turning their efforts, if you all had spent over a year on creating a forum you wanted to post in, like Game Feedback. It was players, working together with Jagex staff & volunteer moderators there, who created what had become a viable feedback forum. It had a lot less spam than the *old* Rants or *old* Compliments forum put together. Game Feedback was working, and required a lot less moderating than the *old* Rants did. Worse, Mod MMG had called all those players that participated in that project of buidling a decent forum for feedback, 'stupid'. There's a lot of livid players on the RSOF; good players who dedicated a lot of time to building viable posting communities, that those forums may risk losing to fan-sites, if Jagex isn't careful. I'm sure you all know the RSOF has lost too many good posters as it is...so it can't afford to lose more over this issue. ~ Fey

I'm not sure what I can say about this change. The only hope is that players who want things changed speak up otherwise there's little volunteers on the RSOF can do about the new Rants.

That's precisely what some I know have done. The article's author also has has point regarding the low-cost nature, and lower hardware requirements of RuneScape. Having been a subscriber to more expensive MMO's. I know to be competitive in those games one has to pay extra not just for higher speed connections (faster than typical DSL) in order to reduce latency, but special proxy services as well, if one wants latency in the low 200 ms times. This is the case for those who don't live in the US, or on continental Europe where most of the other Major MMOs host their servers. I know I've given up hope of being viable in PvP in those games given my 400 > 1600 ms latency in those games. Add to that constant hardware upgrades to accompany not only expansion packs but patches; and often these costs are in addition to subscription costs. As well as RuneScape, players, and parent's of players can also now pay a discounted fee for FunOrb, which potentially with RuneScape could be a good value all-in-one package for online gaming. Couple that with the much lower over-heads one could presume accompany the lower-requirements for RuneScape's servers, and lower support costs. And unlike other MMO's RuneScape makes a lot of use of volunteers from the player base itself, to help ensure issues of personal safety, account theft & gold farming and other distruptive game-play are kept to minimum. This means they can spend more on game-development and updates, in a time if people do look at cutting entertainment costs, some of more expensive MMO's might be facing a dearth of funds to expend in each area. Although, if it what some are saying here turns out to be true, because MMO's in general are quite inexpensive in comparison to other forums of entertainment, the MMO industry in general may be a part of the computer entertainment industry that don't suffer the same kind downturn as seems likely to happen to the rest. Cheers, ~ Fey

Ditto. I wouldn't play RuneScape if it became merely another chore. This is why I'm doubtful I'll get any 99s any time soon. I've enough chores and obligations in 'real-life' that already consume large parts of my day. Although if a goal or achievement feels rewarding it might be worth a little dedication, but it's still only a game, and shouldn't become a job or like passing an exam or getting a qualification or degree. And if I just happen to get a 99 that I've found is fun along the way to getting it...then great. As a player commented in the game today at the GE: "Capes just aren't special any more" I don't think it's because more players have them that they're not so special any more to some out there. I suspect it's when some pare-down process of getting capes through mind numbing grinding; rather than seeing them as an end point as they were intended to be; that's made playing the game for those players, simply another chore. I prefer to let myself get distracted and have fun where I find it... and any level, feature or skill I gain along the way there is a bonus; and it actually feels more fun that way. There's been other MMOs I've played where one has to level-grind continuously to be able to play with friends/family and they've simply ceased to be fun. It's that grind that steals the joy and causes more stress...more if than if I weren't to bother at all; so I've stopped playing them as a result. I've come back to RuneScape time and again, because I feel I can truly play it how I like and when I can, without feeling pressured to do this or that thing first. Cheers, ~ Fey *still growing potatoes after all these years*

Aspects of the game I try to ignore? [*:s1x8nfxe]None. I'd like to sample all aspects of the game one-day, though that may take years. Parts of game-play I ignore? [*:s1x8nfxe]Only those who do not consider others: i.e. rude, inconsiderate or abusive players. ~ Fey * still busy growing potatoes after all these years*

I've tried out the Demo & Sandbox mode (good if you're not in the mood for multi-player). Sandbox is good for trying out strategies, like sending in fast units then a pack of Necromancers after. I've found range units such as mages are excellent counters to helper units (Druids, Monks, Necromancers) too. In the battles I've simulated, Zamorak beat both Guthix and Saradomin using the Necromancer Strategy. The lesson from the Sandbox is...don't let Necro's get near the site of a recent battle. Crush them with range unit before they can mobilise another army on your flank! Cheers, Fey Edit: And yes...it's the first game on FunOrb that's had me contemplating Members there (and given RuneScape Member's get a discount it's not all that expensive either).

For those who say it's a bug for Rangers this omits the fact Jagex recommends Rangers use of safe-spots in the Game Guide: How do I train my Ranged skill? and Ranged - The Basics So safe spots are a part of the game for anyone who intends to use range, as an effective combat style, and changes to them are an issue for players whose primary combat skill is ranged or for that matter magic. Obviously, which spots and where Jagex did not specify, so it's likely they will be changed whenever the advantage is considered too great, or else they didn't intend for that safe spot in a particular position in the first place.

Most likely it'll be when you're killed all your items disappear and your killer gets a random drop from a pre-determined drop table (not items from your inventory). I hope that Jagex uses the gravestone though, and your killer can loot the tombstone for his random drop (destroying all your things in the process). I strongly suspect this will be the case to avoid the obvious exploit of friends killing each other for PvP drops, at no risk (by recovering their items at the gravestone). So there will be a need to prevent this, by making items lost in PvP battles be destroyed when the victor loots.

I agree there may possibly be a bonus in there for skillers if items are lost, and are replaced by what will be random drops from tables. The interesting part will be what these drop tables contain, which are supposed to make PKing a viable means of earning from the drops alone. If a lot of the drops are non-tradable, and PvP World only gear, all the tradeable items that are heavily used (cheap but still effective for PvP) may indeed grow in demand. It may mean though, that if PvP increases, consumables will be in much greater demand, especially if the drop tables aren't full of food, potions, arrows and runes. -- edit: Maybe low level PvP around towns using Bronze, Iron and other gear might see some demand though, especially if after a battle, the victor is interrupted before he can raid the losers gravestone, or is killed by another player themselves. In that way items may indeed be destroyed and need replacing.

This was something that players and volunteers cooked up back in July 2007: * RuneScape Forums > Forum Feedback > Merging the Opposites * Quick find code: 28-29-511-48687964 So this isn't a sudden thing at all. The problems with Rants and Compliments forums were festering for a long time, before Jagex understood the points being made about the problems in those forums required action. It seems Jagex realised that to improve the quality of feedback threads they were getting they had to make changes to the underlying structure of their feedback forums (apparently the Suggestions forum is next on the list for major changes). It won't stop players from posting about what they dislike (or what they like; for those few that who like it but aren't in the game playing it) they're going to post anyway. The main purpose of the change is to ensure that the Game Feedback forum is focussed on discussion about the game's content and features rather than a morass of non-game issues. As far as Compliments goes, Jagex basically agreed with players that there was little in Compliments that added to the value of discussion about the game, since that forum simply wasn't a fertile place for balanced debate either. The main issue with Compliments appeared to be the self-imposed limitations of it's Forum Specific Rules (FSR), that disagreements amounted to flaming, and the rules in that forum only allowed for posters to 'make Jagex feel good'. Compliments had therefore become a place of cookie spam threads, fishing for mod posts and little else. In the end it's still up to the players to make good posts, and cooperate to ensure the level of discussion rises above the depths that the old forums had sadly descended to over the years.

I think there's a problem when players begin comparing different MMOs. This stems from the fact that every online game is made differently, and evolved according to the wishes of the massive player bases. I'd say they all have different emphasis, and the plethora of features makes true comparisons across all features, beyond writing about ones personal opinion and experience, a difficult if not impossible task. There are research sites out there that do market research on MMOs, but even they only address the different games in terms of subscription/non-subscription models, platforms, and other general features. As far as disgruntled players go, anyone who reads the WoW forums will find players on the whole are just as dissatisfied with it, complain about the lack of high-end content, about PvP and anything else besides. It's the nature of an MMO that it cannot please all the players all the time. Try to defend Blizzard on their forums, when it's maintenance Tuesday or a server is down and you'll find yourself being serious flamed, if not personally abused and harassed later. The wide-spread use of both built-in voice chat and 3rd party voice chat clients (like Ventrillo) has lead to some awful situations which I've witnessed. As a result of these incidents, I now personally refused to divulge any of my personal details, let alone age, gender or profession to other players. The less information other players have about you, the less they can target you for abuse; recent incidents of harassment on one channel of one poor girl/woman have turned me off online voice chat forever, unless they are close friends or family I know & trust in real-life. The lesson I've learned in that game is, if you stay in-character and don't let anyone you don't personally know from the real-world know anything about you, they can only hurl insults at your character. It's far easier then to avoid abuse since if it gets bad, you can rename or move severs (though that can get costly - and foists the costs of resolution on the victim rather than the perpetrator of the abuse). Reporting sadly though in the accounts I've seen hasn't lead to satisfaction, though like Jagex, Blizzard can't discuss actions taken against another player's characters or accounts. As far as any comparison between the two, WoW does suffer from lack of moderation on the typical Normal PvE server, as well as on it's realm & battlegroup forums, based upon what I've seen and experienced. Anyone who reads the forums, sees how frequent players are forced to move servers and make name changes to avoid a harassment. I for one rarely if ever use the non-GM moderated forums since flaming is rife and explicit content, key-loggers and the rest are to be found in every forum (in the Customer Service forum players often also complain it takes days to get removal of such rule-breaking content). The more passive approach to dealing with harassment sadly doesn't elicit more responsible behaviour from players in my experience. I recently moved to a Role-Playing server from a typical PvE server due to the fact my Ignore Lists were full to bursting from the level of immaturity and obscenity that seems to plague some servers; at least on Role-Player servers there are extra rule-sets that do prohibit off-topic/real-world conversation in say, yell & party channels, as well as policing of naming problems. At least by keeping it fantasy or game related it would reduce the incidence of solicitation and other real-problems, since they can be reported more readily on RP servers. In a strange irony too, I've found the nicest and most supportive players on RP PvP servers, possibly because on there at least players within the same faction depend on each other for safety, which encourages cooperation and rewards those who are helpful by providing safety in numbers. That benefit is negated of course by the fact that griefing/ganking by players of the opposing faction is commonplace making the experience of levelling in contested or hostile zones difficult to extreme, and not a fun experience; especially if you are casual or often a solo player. Still, I would advise parents to be even more cautious about their young teens or children were they to let them play WoW. The level of adult content that (sadly players *do* use language to deliberately by-pass even the optional filter - so making it optional simply doesn't discourage players to post obscenities which by-pass it) is at times both highly inappropriate and as often as not offensive to people of many different races, genders and backgrounds. As well reporting offenders it is far more difficult than in RuneScape since one has to be capable of comprehending more complex situations, and writing blank tickets which younger players likely don't posses the skills to do. On the flipside, the WoW community is larger, and the demographic of players is somewhat higher than it is for RuneScape. Though this might mean there are some more mature players to be found, it also means player will come across adult content more often, and likely experience the kind of solicitation that lead last year to over 300 reports to child protection authorities in the UK alone. The ESRB warning on the splash screen is there for a reason. For those who believe online life is safe and free of scams and threats to personal and financial security, they obviously have not read enough about the very large and real online presence Internet Scams, Solicitation, and an endless list of other social problems. The Internet is no longer the academic utopia it once was back in the early 1990s. This is why no parent should let their child or even teen online without being aware of the dangers and educating their children on how to stay safe. So while other MMOs do have means and measures to deal with such problems, I'd say RuneScape is by far the most pro-active fantasy MMO in providing the tools and environment which are family friendly, and is highly responsive in the field of combating cyber-crime and cyber-bullying (very common in WoW I must add... their forums are *not* for those who are bullied easily). RuneScape's ICU (Investigations in the Community Unit - no longer a secret so it can be mentioned here) actively works with law enforcement, child protection and other government agencies to keep RuneScape safe from these real Internet threats. As far as choice, it's not an either or as players often play more than one online game in their lifetime, and some may play games simultaneously, as part of a healthy habit of keeping every MMO in perspective as a game.

I've given some thought to this and I am currently working with quite a number of other players to build some very large suggestions for replacements. I won't post the like to my thread here though without your permission first. The problem with PvP servers, is that RuneScape simply isn't set-up that way. While the system allows for some features to be turned on or off: e.g. * Members Features * LootShare * Bounty Hunter * Duel Tournaments. The vast majority of features in the game are always on and cannot be turned off. Instead the Themed World feature simply suggests to players what additional activities might also be carried out on those servers. The idea is that the new 'Members' version for a PvP only areas which only established players can only gain access (no place for players just off Tutorial Island I'm afraid) would give more of the options, some of which you've suggested here. PvP only servers though, is I'm afraid something that isn't supported by the current infrastructure of the RuneScape's servers, and though it sounds fine, is idea imported from other games built vastly differently to RuneScape. Due to that even if Jagex were to introduce PvP only servers at some point, a lot of reprogramming and development of the basic infrastructure would need to be done to accommodate it, and likely would take as long as POHs (Player Owned Houses) to introduce which was 3 years or possibly longer. To get something much sooner for those who like PvP we need to work within the existing infrastructure and suggest content that would fit within that. That's why I'm personally aiming at suggesting whole new areas of content that's geared towards PvP, that won't allow access to new or inexperienced players. By keeping new accounts out of these areas a lot more freedom will hopefully exist to conduct the kind of PvP we lost with the Wilderness. While you're free to suggest PvP serves, sadly personally, I can't see such vast infrastructure changes taking place any-time soon, unless they're already in the works (which of course we can't know as players). Looking forward to seeing more discussion on PvP solutions here and elsewhere. Regards, Fey

Hi chi13, You've made some good points in your rant. Maybe you should post this on the RSOF where Jagex staff can actually read, some of what I personally feel, are very valid points. You should be able to post there again now the worst of the spam has subsided. Good luck with your rants where ever you choose to post them :) --- Hi Unoalexi, Some good criticisms too. Maybe you could follow this rant and post your counter-points there too. I would say personally that Bounty Hunter is nothing like PK-ing used to be. That's no surprise since apart from being PvP the rules, and the game-play emerging there are vastly different to what we had. Sadly though I can confirm from what Jagex has told us all (via News Articles and stickies on the ORSF) that the old PK-ing won't be returning. For those who wish for more interesting PvP we have to rant about what we will believe will partially fix Bounty Hunter. However I believe Bounty Hunter is limited in what it can do, with part of it being Free-to-Play and therefore accessible to throwaway accounts. Instead in Members worlds there needs to vastly new PvP areas built from the ground up, and possibly spanning entirely different planes off the surface of Gielinor into new dimensions. Personally, I feel it's time we gained access to the plane of the Mahjarrat which seems the natural place to migrate a lot of PvP features players loved, and new ones besides, where Zamorak will be rallying troops, and the God Wars have been going on since Guthix all but banished the armies from Gielinor (apart from isolated pockets like the God Wars Dungeon). Sadly the *old* Wilderness as it was, is gone, and I doubt very much given the responses we've received, that it ever will be coming back. Regards, Fey.

Hi Artificial Doom Flavor, As a player myself I am not responsible for these updates. And nowhere did not say I was completely happy with them either. Sadly, what had been occurring due to RWT had put the game in an emergency situation. It was seriously damaging the game to the point where any volunteer moderator, who knew from their active duties ("bot-busting" patrols) to remove large numbers of rule-breakers from the game, RuneScape was in the process of being seriously over-run. We sensed what players did with their rants about bots which, although they were locked on the ORSF, we knew what players were ranting about had only been the tip of that proverbial ice-berg. The game was in serious trouble if drastic measures weren't taken to curb the increasing mass of bots and illegal RWT under-mining game-play for increasing numbers of players. As governments had recently realised, the MMO phenomenon and the large scale billion dollar 'black market' were undergoing levels of exploitation that they themselves saw as serious threats to real people, and not just a group of gamers: Japanese gov't looks into gold farming Read rest of article... For anyone who has been watching this growing awareness all MMOs will be soon forced to change to combat the menace posed by unfettered RWT in their games. The bottom-line is, so far, RuneScape was the first to undergo major changes. RuneScape certainly hasn't been the only one, for those who've been watching-out for these issues. Recent updates and changes to W.o.W have seen huge flare-ups on the forums regarding changes to both Free-Trial-Accounts, and changes to Auction Houses there. And contrary to those who say other games like W.o.W can live with RWT, and players there feel not enough is being done to combat the threat to their game from bots (or as they call them AFKs): Bots and such, Possibly a bot, /em afk report, AFK'rs + BG Rankings, Blue Please Read, Afk , You Anti-Afk'ers are really clueless are just a few examples of the problems being had by the presence of RWTs and there issues with gold spam and prevention features designed to stymie bots rather than legitimate players. Before the recent RuneScape updates, similar posts and criticisms of Jagex very were common like this W.o.W player's of Blizzard: Re: You Anti-Afk'ers are really clueless | 01/08/2008 01:06:52 AM UTC As Blizzard has also emphasised there is no tolerance for such cheats in their game which, when you read it, differs little from Jagex's identical stance against RWTs & bots: Re: Armory and bots...Blizz lying to us? | 06/25/2007 04:37:17 PM UTC In fact the dialogue being had their between players and Blizzard sounds hauntingly familar: Re: Patch 2.2 AH mails | 09/26/2007 09:20:43 PM UTC Read Steinhauer's Opinion: Gold Farming, Part 1 if you want a fan-site editors view of problems in their game. This all again, isn't to say that players haven't been badly affected, however it was only a matter of time that criminals on the Internet, were going to have an impact on the now vastly larger populations of MMOs. As players and particularly as members of RuneScape though, we can have our say, and continue to impress why further changes and improvements need to be made. To say we're not being listened to is no correct in my view. I've seen many, many posts by Jagex on the forums, and a lot of changes they indicated which came directly from the ORSF, and will being added to the game in the coming months. Personally I'm sad about the loss of the Wilderness, but this contrasts vastly with the fact that there was never a legitimate place in our game for criminals and fraudsters like those from RWT sites. Regards, Fey

That's will only happen if players, like yourself insist on not giving feedback about your issues. By choosing to forgo that option which Jagex offers to all players it creates a closed loop where no progress or improvements can be because no improvement is sought. Going back to allow RWT to destroy our game is not an option either. What perplexes about your post is how it relies heavily on the Fear, Uncertainly and Doubt being spread by RWT sites. Why would they not lie to players (potential customers) about their failing operations. I find this is odd because in your initial disclaimer your post seems to renounce such activity as illegitimate and something not supported by rule-abiding players. There's no way any RWT operation who must rely on illegally tapping into another companies business is a legitimate business in their own right. Such claims by these operators will always ring hollow since they own none of the copyrights, IP or licenses from Jagex to act as resellers. They can only ever promote a face of professional confidence; but it's always a false face. If they were real companies selling a real product, they'd go out and make an MMO of their own rather than trying to ruin games developed by other people. There's no way you can rely on these claims by such RWT operators since they're all sites that promote trading in the product they do not own and are clearly not licensed to sell. In my opinion they're all 'fake' sites, since Jagex does not sell items or gold; there are no legitimate RuneScape cheats; so anyone doing so in my view is engaging in nothing less than fraud on the part of offering to sell such services or 'virtual goods'. What they're promoting will get players banned, so there's no way they can claim they are legitimate means of buying RuneScape, gold, items or account levelling. These things are all clear violations of terms of service of each and every account. As for Western Union, or any other trusted payment service accepting payments on their behalf, I'm doubtful of such claims since any site can simply put up an icon claiming they accept such payments even if they're not legitimate. Even if such sites manage to get payments for a short period via Western Union or other payment methods, these payment services would likely terminate such agreements as soon as such sites are reported for fraudulently selling another companies products or services. I'm sure given the shell-like nature of these operators, they continually change their address and modus operandi to avoid be completely shut-down. As soon as these sites are uncovered for the scams they are, payment services withdrawn and ISPs disable their web accounts, these RWTer only continue to exist since they rebuild these shell sites under another domain name, using new phone numbers and addresses, and new bank details. I wouldn't believe a word I read on an RWT site, nor would I wish to visit one given the likelyhood many of them are known to infect client computers with key-loggers and trojans - I hope you scanned your computer if you did. Again these can be nothing but hollow promises. They're simply no way they can claim to be able to guarantee any of these things. The fact they have to claim to offer compensation for being 'banned' goes to show they're gall, since they know what they're doing illegally yet they'll still claim to offer guarantees regardless. Seeing these counter productive statements appealing for false-sympathy for what is essentially are fraudulent operations, never fails to amaze me. If we in the developed world wish to honestly assist developing countries to build a real economy, instead of forcing them to rely on 'black market' products, then we should allow imports of legitimate products, and promote ethical choices. The only way we can do that is by promoting fair and honest free-trade between all countries, and by the rule of law and legitimate business. There's nothing to be gained by encouraging people in developing countries to rely on 'black market' products to eat. That only slows down their development of a real sustainable economy, rather than one based on illegal trading in other companies products. By supporting these RWT operators we're simply ensuring these workers continue to be at the mercy of shysters and fly-by-night operators who do not conduct wish to conduct legitimate businesses. By encouraging players to not give their feedback on their problems with features and stating the only way Jagex can to allow the game to function is to allow RWT as is implied by everything posted here after your initial disclaimer, that you don't in fact support RWT. Why instead repost unreliable material you've taken from RWT sites, when it's obvious if you go to any MMOs forum that neither players nor game developers welcome RWT; in fact they despise it as much as our player community does. It's the in Terms & Conditions/Terms of Service of all MMOs that prohibit RWT. * Unsanctioned RWT is prohibited because that it damages the reputation and playability of MMORPGs; it's in the interest of game developers to prevent it. * Sites that are not licensed resellers by MMO Developers are illegal sites. * All honest players abhor illegal RWT it since it promotes cheating and has historically ruined the mechanics of many a game. * All honest fansites that do not promote it such illegal activities. What you've posted here simply leaves in my view a lot of unanswered questions: Why on Gielinor are you pasting the exact same material I've seen posted previously (before this was posted on Tip.It) on other forum by different RuneScape username? Was that other username I saw this material posted under your username perchance? If that was your username and you did write this why the alias if that's the case? And if you are quitting, as you say you are anyway, why would you care to use an alias? And if you are quitting why do you care to post and respond here since the fate of RuneScape is no longer within your the sphere of interest as online game? Otherwise, if this is not your material then why not simply do your own research to support your claims, or else give credit to the original author so we can see your sources? I know you are restricted in that you cannot by the rules post sites here but surely the original author would want credit for their views. By posting this under an alias, in my view, it only makes these claims harder to credit given the severity of criticism being made against Jagex. My apologies if you feel accused here, but when you accuse others by pointing such major bones, and picking apart the legitimate business of the company whose game upon which this is a fansite (Tip.It) is based, you must be prepared for similarly close scrutiny. The facts are in my view, that Jagex would not be making such serious legal claims against these RWT operators if there were not sound legal foundation to Jagex's statements about the level of fraud committed by these sites. If you were to do your own research and write your own material (unless that was you who posted this on that other forum) that would at least offer some integrity to these severe criticisms being levelled in this thread at Jagex. In my view it's clear it's rule-abiding player base who want nothing to do with RWT, nor would they want RWT back in the game.

I agree with this assessment. The PvP mini-games in RuneScape are not working as they should and need at least 6 months, if not a year or more, of dedicated review and work. They certainly do not act, in my view as a replacement for the game-play that was removed. As long as Jagex is willing to continue to admit that and work on the problems I believe they should at least be given the opportunity to improve things. After all the weeks of condemnation by those who'd already made the decision to leave for other 'virtual worlds' has achieved none of their goals in terms of roll-back. That may sound harsh coming from me, but I'm allowed as a player and paying member to offer my honest feedback, on what I feel are improvements that need to be made to features. I think by Jagex's admission it isn't working as it should. While it's certainly not ideal (far from it it's borderline unworkable with too many items) it's genuine feedback from players like yourself, Qeltar and many other players besides who will ensure things are modified so that they do as Jagex wishes for us to feel as a 'full replacement'. I'm not quite convinced that the G.E. should replace all person to person trades, certainly not for proven and experienced players. However that's an entirely different rant I'm assisting other player's with on the RSOF. I actually agree with this to a limited extent. For the cheapest Items under a certain amounts the limits should not apply to Custom Pricing button. Players should be able to set their own custom prices for these items, but obviously not to ridiculous levels. Why? Well anyone who reads the posts by Blizzard GMs on the W.o.W forums (they don't have volunteer moderators; they do have MVPs though) have no sympathy for those who wish to RMTing (they don't call it RWTing) and will ban all associated accounts if sighted on their forums or in the game. When Jagex says it was discussing with experts in the Industry it sounds distinctly like there's been a conclave of developers from all the Major MMOs at recent E3s (Electronic Entertainment Expo). There is some evidence for reason to believe they've been collaborating on their efforts to either take over role of RMT (like Sony's attempt in EverQuest II RMT exchange) or else take distinct measures to push illegal traders out of games. Regardless, game developers obviously see such illegal traders as unwelcome guests in the games they maintain and develop. Gold-spam as it's referred to in W.o.W has been a severe and controversial problem on their forums of late with threads full of any posters needed to be placated by Blizzard's latest attempts to eliminate this menace from their games. Sadly, this has meant a further and comparably severe limitations to their Free Accounts, virtually disabling most of the major features, and communication abilities. Free Accounts on W.o.W aren't even allowed to trade on their trade exchanges. Back to the idea of improvements for the G.E. though... I believe the price matching process of the G.E. though already takes care of obvious attempts to set an unusual price on items to by-pass anonymous trades in the following fashion: When an item is priced for sale (to sell): - It's matched against existing buy offers, at or above offered prices. - Later buy offers are matched against it, at or below offered prices. When an item is priced for purchase (to buy): - It's matched against existing sell offers at or below offered prices. - Later sell offers are matched against it at or above offered prices. This is how if we place our offers later and we can get change if there were matches that give us the better deal. This probably cleans out a lot of items from the system that are within going price ranges. Apparently what had occurred in the earlier versions of W.o.W auction houses was there was deliberate over-pricing or under pricing items of items, and other delivery exploits had generated surprisingly familiar proclamations on the "Horsemen of the apocalypse". Though RuneScape and W.o.W are very different games (I'm not really sure it's productive at all to make comparisons) the common fight against cheats and RWT fraudsters in both games, have generated understandable resistance in their respective player populations. As deliberate over/under pricing of items in order target delivery for RWT has been largely defeated by features in the G.E. which in my view should give enough scope to allowing larger price ranges for Custom Pricing. On a sliding scale doesn't seem to me to open any dangerous gaps that would allow RWTers operational room. I feel the following model (maybe not these exact amounts or levels but something similar could work): Item Values - Custom Price Ranges < 100 GP +/- 100% < 1,000 GP +/- 75% < 10,000 GP +/- 25% < 100,000 GP +/- 15% < 1,000,000 GP +/- 10% < 1,000,000 GP +/- 7.5% > 10,000,000 GP +/- 5% Personally, I also wonder if the Quick Price buttons should be replaced or modified by something better. As well, Jagex has already announced there will be initially no price ranges on new items when they are released, at least for the first week or so. Hopefully, the pricing of new items will be more appropriate for that reason. Obviously as they've sought to make a permanent G.E. forum it shows they're prepared to dedicate a new team to assisting with players watching the markets. This does sound like a good idea for transparency since if there ever is any manipulation or dodgy activity occurring on the G.E. players are likely to highlight it here and help fix problems. There are real-life analogies to this in consumer price watch-dogs and ombudsmen, and anti-trust authorities that combat gross attempts to control markets by big players. The recent successful prosecution of a major world-wide Airline group (including many major airlines) for massive manipulation with the fuel surcharges since 9/11 are an example of this. Hopefully the basic rules of this G.E. forum will be written by Jagex to allow enough freedom to debate and discuss such problems respectfully, while ensuring that that forum itself isn't simply dominated by a few groups. I'd encourage all players to take the opportunity to have a say to ensure that it works in the interest of all players. I can see it becoming the most hotly debated forum. Though as Bobbington says we've heard nothing more than any other player out there about it, other than what's been given to us all in the main news posts on the RuneScape site. In the end the G.E. can never be a real-life market, since the goals of producers and processors and consumers, in a MMO are different to those in a real market. In real markets there is no way X.P. earned from processing item is a major price factor :P The bottom-line should be to ensure that what occurs enables players to have 'fun', since in the end RuneScape is an entertainment product for players enjoyment, and not a job or means of earning an income. The role of all players, including those who wish to play the market can be a positive and educational one, will ensure we can all player our part in putting back the liquidity that seems to be lacking at the moment in many items. Some items though can't be made liquid if they don't have a use, or value in game-play; that issue can only be solved by us giving feedback to Content Developers on improving the useful of all items in our game-play. Some items however it seems are going to remain an enigma (despite some asking for their removal and this be a perfect opportunity for it Jagex didn't do that) and will continue to have a value that belies the rules for normal or even useless items (post quest). Regards, Fey --- p.s. Sorry Qeltar I haven't had time to respond to your 'newspost' about your yearly update review. I've got pressing real-life commitments that have priority over my 'scaping I'm afraid. It's either best I offer a proper response or none at all. It seems like you're getting more than enough feedback so my 2 GP isn't really going to add much ;)