compfreak847

Your still completely messing up the idea of XP. Zombie monkies are 103k XP at 99 melees, slayer is 65k XP. If Zombies are 75k at 80 melees, slayer is 48k. The speed of training outside of slayer is essential; range can be trained MUCH faster then melee, meaning that it is even less worth doing then slayer. Do I really need to run the calculations? I hope you can see that 160k XP with 0 loss > ~50k? (not sure, never tried to range slayer) XP with ~80k profit from ranging. As mentioned in my post, I can indeed get a snack etc. while at armored zombies; it's an AFK spot, I only pick up drops every minute or two, along with refresh prayer every 3.5 minutes or so. Again, I feel no need to look back into my posts; the cannon argument ended with your rates of bloodvields being proved inefficient. Obviously something like how long it takes to memorize the locations\armor\setup for each slayer tasks varies and is utterly impossible to test or give any sort of number on, considerably different from hard numbers like XP rates. The whole 45-50k XP was based on what most players achieve with average attention; I know few players who, like my 65k number, play in fullscreen mode with 0 other activities going on in RL and private\public\clan chat off. Any time I do other activites I significantly degrade my slayer XP - not so with armored zombies, where I frequently watch movies etc. while doing them, still getting over 100k XP. Also, what's your internet ISP? I thought my comcast's 250gb limit was harsh, I just downloaded the 32\64bit versions of Windows 7 along with some other stuff last night for a total of 15gb+ in traffic in under 24 hours :-#

This is why I specifically made my point based on a whip. It's the staple weapon; once you own one you're not as likely to sell it back as you may be with something like a bag of silver. Point being? It's just as easy to sell every item in RS. Every item has a value attached to it, a physical GP price set by the RS community. If that price drops, the overall value of the item drops. Therefore, it is losing value. Value is set and determined using GP as an exchange unit. Therefore, value being lost means that the units of GP equal to that product has become fewer - losing GP, and resulting in a loss of value and coins.

Just do yaks until 60, it doesn't really matter - at your level almost any training place will get you the level fast. And it's still far better then slayer.

Not really, a few 10 year olds complained about not being able to properly humiliate their opponent by swearing at them. The rest of us praised the censor, pointing to youtube comments as an example. I wish it was still around, but no sense crying over spilled milk. Forget Youtube, ever been on Xbox Live? Not really, I'm all about PC gaming. I hear it's the same thing, though.

I'm trying to get away from Dells. The computer I'm on right now is a Dell. It's on the Top 10 Worst PCs List because, just like all of the other Dell Dimensions, died 5 days (more or less) after the warranty went out. So, now, I have to have it on all the time or else it won't power back on. Not only that, but all of the other computers we own (which, of course, are Dells) all have some little defect of their own. =/ I'm used to talking to people who are scared of long links, or forcing them to enter them over the phone. The censor part was about tip.it. I've owned\serviced hundreds of dells, and they really aren't any better or worse then other brands for reliability; they usually score in the middle\upper range of customer surveys for repairs and problems, so your experience is atypical. I got my laptop with a 40% off coupon for around 1200$, a similar build was 2200$ at HP. I was able to customize it to my exact specifications to get what I needed at a far lower cost. Big thumbs up to dell, they're only expensive if you don't know about their coupon deals.

Not really, a few 10 year olds complained about not being able to properly humiliate their opponent by swearing at them. The rest of us praised the censor, pointing to youtube comments as an example. I wish it was still around, but no sense crying over spilled milk.

The value of an item is determined by the current street price. Say you bought an AGS when it was 100m, and your bank value was 120m. Your AGS then dropped to 60m, and your bank value was 80m. You have lost 40m. If stock prices drop in real life, you lose money. If you buy a bag of silver (real life example here :-# ) for 20,000, and 10 years later the price of silver has dropped and you can only sell the bag for 5,000, you have lost money. The whole argument about not spending your money on anything vs. enjoyment is another argument entirely. But for the original post, if an items falls 60m, you have lost money. Same as it is in the real world, every item has a value attached to it.

iknorite :lol: I was referring to gorgoroth's posts, where he was determined he could only make 250k-300k per hour and everyone else was wrong, despite obviously not knowing how to do them efficiently OR having tested them. Gee, you think? Yeah, not using range pots\+10% pray\void\throwing rings\paying attention\experience just MIGHT have an effect on your XP rates! Now, as I was saying before: With practice and the right equipment\skills, expect 600k per hour. If you don't pay attention, use a terrible setup, and have never tried them before, your not going to very much cash. Thank you.

+15% on void is roughly +17 attack\strength on a whip setup, meaning that -12 strength from barrows gloves\-3 from nezinot makes void only +2 more strength. -12 attack from barrows gloves makes void only +5 more attack, roughly equivalent to warrior ring and nearly 1/4th that of defender. Completely unnoticeable without extensive, precise testing. It's your imagination.

Void, 99 range, +10% range pray, throwing rings, unicorn, practice, crazy mouse skills. 'nuff said.

Ill put this as easy as I can to contradict your belief here. You say they are not worth picking up as you lose hits in order to do so. Please therefore explain to me how with my (as you have said many times) significantly lower stats and also wasting time by picking up these drops, that I am able to get a greater amount of kills per hour in comparison to you (who as you have stated, does not waste time picking those drops up and has better stats)? Keep in mind you were the one who stated it was 550k per hour originally. I have yet to see where the cannon was proven inefficient. If no cannon was used on Slayer, it would increase the melee experience per hour would it not (hence also Hitpoints)? So you would therefore not lose much experience in not using a cannon, but I have no results for this. I would approximate maybe 15k or so. That is based on 70k melee experience per hour, which is 23.3k Hitpoints and 17.5k Slayer. Using that ratio it would drop to about 14k Summoning experience also. That is about 124.8k experience compared to the Monkies 143.3k. Monkies lose about 110k per hour and Slayer (as you say would have a higher profit if no cannon was used) would have a positive amount of money, but well stick with 135k anyway (same as with cannon). That still means you need to be able to make over 1.9mil per hour for the Monkies to be better than Slayer. So Slayer is still more efficient unless this number is reached. The last section shows how unbelievable your rates really are. 65k melee (thats melee not combat) experience an hour, but 45k for informal training? What is classified as informal training? Please explain how some difference here would result in a 20k drop, it just seems impossible unless you are purposely not doing Slayer. Informal in this context means relaxed and casual. That infers you were not being casual in the first place (considering you are playing a game for fun, I would already assume it is to some extent relaxed). What would honestly be the difference? Talking to friends? Well geez, you already do that whilst being formal. There is no way that could reduce the rate by 20k, let alone even 1k if anything. I dont really see anyway that it would drop the rate so much. This was after it was suggested to use NPC contact. There is no reason to alch the drops while on the task as compared to off. It is just as easy to bank the items to alch later. I addressed this above. The difference here is you stipulated that is requires 100% attention and a lot of practice to get this rate. I wont deny there is practice, but that is minimal. What is there to learn really? Drinking potions and such in between hits? That would affect the powertraining more than Slayer. Learning what to take to each task? Unless you have the inability to convert short-term memories to long-term there is no reason for this to be hard. The outfit is basically the same across all task, which some small changes across different NPCs. Just got Abyssal Demons? Take the standard outfit. Just got Black Dragons? Swap the Rune Defender to a Dragonfire Shield or Anti-Dragon shield and you are set. Got Bloodvelds? Swap to Karils/Dragonhide and back to Rune Defender and your set. If you kill the ones in multi, then instead get Proselyte in comparison to Karils, also bring a cannon and cannonballs. Where is the difficulty? I often do not pay as much attention as I could on tasks but I still get higher rates than you suggest. The mistake here is your use of the word "combat". That is the melee experience, only one part of combat. Based on what I have seen (and the majority of other people) is Armoured Zombies is 80-100k experience per hour depending on stats. Ill base it on my observations of 95k. That means you get 95k melee experience, 31.7k Hitpoints and from the charms about 8k. That is a total of 134.7k "combat" experience per hour. For Slayer Ill again use the number I have stated in this thread over and over (note that I actually get higher but this is the number I have been using). You get 65k melee experience per hour, 21.7k Hitpoints, 12.5k Range, 18k Summoning experience. That is 117.17 "combat" experience per hour. Using the exact numbers, that is a difference of 17.5k in favor of the Armoured Zombies. However, what hasnt been included is the Slayer experience, while not a combat skill it is directly related to combat as there is no other way to efficiently train it. Add this in and there is a 5k difference in favor of Slayer. I just wanted to clear that up. Im not going to tell you how to train Slayer, but if you are after efficient experience you are better off skipping Steel Dragons. Doing Iron is debatable (with melee that is). Mithril Dragons give the lowest Slayer experience in game, but they are a fun task, takes minimal time and isnt a very common task. So not one to be blocked. Steels however are more common, are very slow experience (about 14k Slayer experience per hour). Irons are about 19k per hour to Slayer, or about 21k with the Dragon Slayer gloves (though I personally dont find the time to get the gloves worth it, it may be for others). They are a reasonable task to do if you use melee and piety though combined with the Slayer Helm. Mage just isnt efficient to use on any task when compared to melee or Range. The chance of making money from Slayer is actually quite high, and it isnt all about the drops. This is due to the Slayer points on average will get you 60k or more per hour in top of what you earn from drops. I know you meant ranks but there is a flaw in the argument. It isnt about getting the fastest experience, it is about being efficient. That is why it is not worth getting the combat skills to 99 beforehand (except for Prayer). Say you use Armoured Zombies to get, you will get more "combat" experience per hour and hence get them to 99 first, but you sacrifice the Slayer experience. From say about 80-99 you would range from maybe 70k-75k at 80 to 100k at 99 per hour (I got the 75k as an estimate as someone told me they got about 85k per hour with stats at 88). On Slayer you might get at 80 50-55k up to 65k (and higher) at 99 (no idea at 80 stats really, and 65k is the number I have been using, though as stated it is higher for me, also that rate is based on using a cannon, without a cannon the rate is higher for melee). Using 87.5k as an average for Zombies and 57.5k for Slayer Ill show the difference. Also note for now I am excluding the Range experience. Ill also add in the Summoning experience (using 7.5k per hour for Zombies and 15k for Slayer as an average). I changed my mind, but Ill add it here. Instead the number for Summoning on Slayer will be about 13.75k (making the ratio about 0.95:1). This is due to at 15k you would have got more Summoning experience than Slayer, so I lowered the rate. Zombies It would take 126.3 hours to get one melee skill to 99. Therefore taking about 378.8 hours to get all three to 99. You would gain about 2,841,008 Summoning experience. Slayer I would take about 192.1 hours to get one melee skill to 99. Therefore taking about 576.4 hours to get all three to 99. You would also gain in the process, 8,286,272.25 Slayer experience. You would gain about 7,926,000 Summoning experience. Hitpoints experience would be the same for both options. So you are losing out on 16.2mil experience for a gain of 197.6 hours. Using Waterfiends, to get that amount of experience (using 100 crimsons worth of charms per hour at 0 cost, not sure on profit but it doesnt matter) would take about 226.5 hours. Without even bothering to do more calculations Slayer is already better off. Well unless you value Slayer experience as a negative (which makes no sense seeing as it would provide no negative to your account), Slayer is better in that respect. Kind of a long response to such a small section :lol: . He isnt ranting for it to be changed. It is about people suggesting other people to train it. I personally think that if an update occurred to give it more experience (for example, on Slayer you get 1.5x the experience as you would without, so 6x per damage, 3x for cannon and 2x per damage for Hitpoints, also increase the experience to Slayer) while increasing the experience output, would ruin the skill. Nearly everyone would be doing Slayer making every single spot overcrowded. The only other way to really increase the experience is to add more NPCs to the list that have a very high experience rate, this increases the average experience rate. As I have stated before, there are tasks worth ranging. Ranging Fire Giants is 2k or less Slayer experience per hour compared to melee. However, if your stats were uneven to begin with (Im talking long term here), it is better off to get Range experience so that all your combat stats are at 99 before you get 99 Slayer. Ranging Black Demons can be over 10k faster Slayer experience per hour, however you will get less charms (for some reason only a certain graphical type of them drops charms, which just seems like a bug to me). Ranging Hellhounds is better than meleeing them. Even though I personally dont do this task, Range is the better option here. Dont mention your first post to be honest. There is so many mistakes in it and it is so far behind in information that it almost isnt worth reading at all. This is proven by your last sentence As I stated, almost all of my unbers and methods have been updated and determined precisely since then. Almost all number and methods? Doesnt that therefore mean your first post is useless until updated? I have suggested many times for you to update it. I have said so throughout the thread, not just recently. To even suggest someone should have to read through every page to find one specific piece of information is so far beyond stupid I cant think of a proper way to explain how bad it is. I can even relate it to overall efficiency to prove that it should be updated. It would take ages for a person to read through this entire thread before making a response, for example Ill say 10 hours (its a lot of writing). So for each person that reads through it, it takes 10 hours. If you did this and updated the first post it would takes 10 hours or less (less due to you already knowing most of what was said). This would make all future people not have to read through the thread. You could say that it is taken out of your time, but is <10 hours better than n amount of people times 10 hours? You would gain better responses to your thread as they have more information. You wouldnt have to effectively ignore what someone says every time a new post is made without consulting every other page. This would overall be better for the entire thread would it not? You remind me of a car salesman, disappearing after numbers being negotiated too far down then re appearing trying to argue from the starting point again :-# Cannon has been proved inefficeint, oh, about, 7 pages ago? Far too much information has been gone over since my OP was made to ever fit all of it back in; anyway, most of the posts are simply rehasing what has been mentioned earlier. All of those require time to memorize and get used to. Your looking at 80+ slayer before you have outfits for everything memorized. Every task is in a different location, often a changing one, with various ways to get there. Armor and methods are anywhere from similar to very different for various tasks. Rates have already been hammered out for 100% attention, so we needn't argue them. Melee XP>Range XP, as has been hashed out before - using a combonation of avansies and chinchompas, one can obtain 130-160k+ XP\hour, much more then is obtainable with melee. So getting less combat, slayer, summoning, and HP XP to train a skill that is easier is not going to work. Your entire zombie comparison is off; both my 103k and 65k numbers are for virtually maxed stats, so using 65k as the average for slayer and 75k as the average for armored zombies is worthless. Your summoning XP is also off, it's roughly double what you stated in your methods. Informal training, as in, how I normally play runescape. Stopping every now and then for stuff in RL, be it getting a snack or starting a virus scan. IMing and chatting at the same time, sometimes looking stuff up or playing archanists if the task is easy and boring, i.e. cannoning certain tasks. Basically how I normally play RS, just as I do at armored zombies. The only difference is that zombies still gets me top notch XP for not paying attention, but my slayer XP drops off.

Your wrong. Dharok's plate offers more defence, and you can swap karils just as easily with whip\defender instead of flail. Minute per minute, whip + defender will deal more damage then flail, except for prayer, which is almost never used in safe PVP fights. No, I'm not. Verac's has no negatives to magic defense. That alone, right there, is enough to swing the balance away from Dharok. You're not forced to carry an extra pair of legs for hybrids and pilers because your dharok legs were crippling you and you're not left wide out in the open when somebody surprises you with some magic. And I don't know if you pvp a lot, but prayer is incredibly common in the pits or clan wars (especially clan wars). Coupled with a set effect that is effective on anything in tanky armor and you have a win. Sure, a whip is worth packing for people in lighter gear, but on those beeftanks with +370 slash def or higher, the verac set comes in handy. When all that's at stake is +15 or 20 defense at the most, the versatility of verac outweighs its competitors. You may have crunched a few numbers, but don't think you're some kind of RS combat god, because your practical knowledge is lacking. I've won over 600 games at the pits. A set of verac, with a karil top and bottom, a whip, and a dfs, are almost required equipment. DPS is NOT the only name of the game in there. A dfs will outperform a defender, verac will outpreform its slightly better cousins, and the set effect is NOT a waste. And before you drag this on again, I want to see some REAL numbers showing that whip and defender are better than verac in a safe pvp situation where you're facing somebody with supersets, +350 or higher defense, and piety. Because you can't. 19 more slash attack doesn't give a better hit rate on that type of player than a set of verac. And while you're at it, I want to see pvp proof that a defender beats a dfs. A bonus sum of 38 (defender attack plus defense) doesn't beat a defense bonus of 75 on the dfs in an equal fight where both players are on equal footing with levels and gear. Alright, all in order. Feel free to point out where I said to wear dharoks legs. Veracs is slightly closer at defence tanks, but it is still beat by a whip. Practical knowledge? 600 games at pits? Let's take this one by one. As for practical knowledge, I have over 1,000 hours experience with PVP. Around 650 of those hours were spent at fight pits. I have won a total of 9 furys, currently working on my tenth, for a total of around 2,400,000 tokul won in roughly 1,400 wins (and far more games then that, I tend to let friends win). Around 250 hours (and counting) was spent at Clan Wars, with over 150 devoted specifically to testing veracs vs. whip + defender. The whip + defender has a total of 44 extra defence, a fairly significant amount that is often overlooked. The second, and most important factor is the speed of the whip - verac's flail is considerably slower, with a significantly lower attack and strength meaning you have to rely on the set effect to make up the large difference in hitting ability. At 95+ attack, where your always fighting people with equal or lesser defence, your hit ratio becomes high enough to overcome verac's abilities. Prayer is obviously the exception, but I question how often you do pits. Anyone who uses melee prayer is instantly piled in any of the 1 v 1 worlds, resulting in a quick death and a lesson learned. Clan wars has far more tactics available, and prayer can be easily (and better) countered with obstacles, range, sidestepping, farcasting, and running\hiding. This allows whip+defender to deal more damage per minute then veracs in the vast majority of fights.

Achievement of the Year award? I mean hell, thats just pathetic. Clicking Expert? Dude you need to get laid. May I ask what's wrong with that? Your going to be in for a shock when you hit the real world, where what you can accomplish and how smart you are matters far more then how hard you can party. All Work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. I think you are a perfect example of that. You seem to be quite.....well dull. Sad, lonely. i have pitty for you. That's nice to know. I'm deeply touched by your altruism. Feel free to google "define:altruism". Now, back to this thread: Green dragons at maxed stats are 650k per hour; you can scale them down to yours as applies. Avansies, again at maxed stats, are around 620-630k per hour; scale them down to your stats to determine estimated earnings.

Addy bolts out hit obby rings too. My point was that they only hit 1 or 2 less than the rings, are just as fast , but cost half as much. How many hours have you tested this, exactly? I've had 70+ hours of ACCURATE testing. And by accurate I mean 'stopwatch and screenshots'. Not to be condescending or anything, but you do realize I've gotten more range XP at avansies alone then you have in your entire RS carrier? Sorry for coming across as an arrogant jerk, but it irritates me when people make irrational statements obviously not based on real world tests. Plus, my range level (and range level when testing, I've leveled from 78-98 almost exclusively at avansies\spirit mages) is much closer to his then yours, indicating that my results would be closer in terms of accuracy and hitting power. You notice that I never said that you will get X amount of experience in X amount of time, right? I simply stated that the hunter's crossbow could be an alternative to obby rings. Why must you be so closed minded about new suggestions that could provide a viable alternative? And honestly, it takes not even 5 shots of each weapon to determine the speed. I figured out the max hits from use in Fist of Guthix; for both of them they maxed about every 3rd hit. That's wonderful to know. Unfortunately, max hits don't quite represent the entire spectrum, and XP rates over 40 hours tend to be slightly more accurate then 'i used 5 shots in FOG and this ones max hit is higher so its better!' And FOG =\= Avansies. Test the monster, don't test somewhere that has almost nothing to do with Avansies. You can't even pot at FOG, and I doubt you carefully recorded rates with the standard 10% range boost and full void equipment set identical to the one used at avansies. [/hide] Like I said before, I simply stated that it could be a viable alternative; I never said that I had definitive proof that it was an awesome weapon that got 400k xp p/h. And also, not using ranged potions is simply taking out a variable. You're not at the same exact ranged level every second that you're potted, which could lead to skewed results. And whether or not I used the void wouldn't matter, it adds 10% to both of them if I used it; and if I didn't use it, I simply wouldn't have that 10%; it's the same ratio (this goes for 10% ranged as well). Lastly, the 5 shots was simply for speed, not power, and you notice I said that the obby rings hit higher, right? Ok, I'll show you my original point again. Obby rings will earn you around 200k more profit and 25k more XP then hunter crossbow. I have facts and numbers to back it up. What are you trying to argue for? Ok, thank you. If you could have said that in the beginning none of this would have happened. I stated that I thought the hunter's crossbow could have been an alternative; I was wrong. Not a chance. Addy bolts out hit them. Addy bolts out hit obby rings too. My point was that they only hit 1 or 2 less than the rings, are just as fast , but cost half as much. That was an incorrect statement. Both adamant bolts and hunter's crossbow with long kebbit bolts (which is actually more expensive then addy and roughly the same speed) are much worse then throwing rings.

You also get hit more often when wearing void + Bunny (at least I did, 99 defence) and I had to use up invent space on food which makes me lose out on gp/hour. Whereas with a Bunny + Prosy not only do I maximize my invent space I can also make less trips to the alter which does balance out to more exp/hour. I have tried both ways and I find myself gaining more exp/hour with Proselyte. Yea an with void you miss out on bonuses with the Neitznot, Barrow gloves, and even bandos. I really never noticed a difference in void to the set up mentioend above, exept for maybe a 1-2 more damage and maybe a bit more accurate, but the defense loss doesn't make up for that whatsoever, so no don't waste your time like I did. The max would change 3 or 4. The max hit would change around 1.4, and would force you to pray almost twice as often. Plus a bunyip will barely keep up for healing, and anything less then super setted 99 defence with piety will require food. And even then your flirting with 40- HP at times if you get unlucky. Hmm... I assumed 10% :XD: Forgot the +15 strength your losing from barrows gloves\nezinot :P

Achievement of the Year award? I mean hell, thats just pathetic. Clicking Expert? Dude you need to get laid. May I ask what's wrong with that? Your going to be in for a shock when you hit the real world, where what you can accomplish and how smart you are matters far more then how hard you can party.

Not a chance. Addy bolts out hit them. Addy bolts out hit obby rings too. My point was that they only hit 1 or 2 less than the rings, are just as fast , but cost half as much. How many hours have you tested this, exactly? I've had 70+ hours of ACCURATE testing. And by accurate I mean 'stopwatch and screenshots'. Not to be condescending or anything, but you do realize I've gotten more range XP at avansies alone then you have in your entire RS carrier? Sorry for coming across as an arrogant jerk, but it irritates me when people make irrational statements obviously not based on real world tests. Plus, my range level (and range level when testing, I've leveled from 78-98 almost exclusively at avansies\spirit mages) is much closer to his then yours, indicating that my results would be closer in terms of accuracy and hitting power. You notice that I never said that you will get X amount of experience in X amount of time, right? I simply stated that the hunter's crossbow could be an alternative to obby rings. Why must you be so closed minded about new suggestions that could provide a viable alternative? And honestly, it takes not even 5 shots of each weapon to determine the speed. I figured out the max hits from use in Fist of Guthix; for both of them they maxed about every 3rd hit. That's wonderful to know. Unfortunately, max hits don't quite represent the entire spectrum, and XP rates over 40 hours tend to be slightly more accurate then 'i used 5 shots in FOG and this ones max hit is higher so its better!' And FOG =\= Avansies. Test the monster, don't test somewhere that has almost nothing to do with Avansies. You can't even pot at FOG, and I doubt you carefully recorded rates with the standard 10% range boost and full void equipment set identical to the one used at avansies. [/hide] Like I said before, I simply stated that it could be a viable alternative; I never said that I had definitive proof that it was an awesome weapon that got 400k xp p/h. And also, not using ranged potions is simply taking out a variable. You're not at the same exact ranged level every second that you're potted, which could lead to skewed results. And whether or not I used the void wouldn't matter, it adds 10% to both of them if I used it; and if I didn't use it, I simply wouldn't have that 10%; it's the same ratio (this goes for 10% ranged as well). Lastly, the 5 shots was simply for speed, not power, and you notice I said that the obby rings hit higher, right? Ok, I'll show you my original point again. Obby rings will earn you around 200k more profit and 25k more XP then hunter crossbow. I have facts and numbers to back it up. What are you trying to argue for?

I think it is 20%, but it probably does differ. I also do lose more than 50% of my bronzes though :evil: You realize that's a cost of, like, 3k per hour? And that your wasting massive amounts of XP and GP by using anything under mith arrows (but that's another argument for another thread ;) ) I really don't care if it's a loss of 1 gp or 1,000,000 gp, it's a loss. I hate losses. Also, I don't see how using cheaper arrows is a bad thing. Well in that case, why don't you use dragonfire bolts without an accumulator? After all, you don't care if it's 3k or 3m your losing per hour. They are both 'losses'. Are you one of those people who picks their own flax, spins their own bowstrings, cuts their own yews, makes their own bows then proclaims about how much money they are making alching, laughing at the 'poor saps' who 'spend millions of gp on 99 mage buying yew longs'? NO NO NO NO NO! I did not mean that, even though it might have seemed that way. I meant that I hate losing money, no matter what the amount. Secondly, where did you get that? Just to inform you, I hate picking flax. I hate spinning bowstrings. I hate cutting yews. I hate making bows. I hate alching. I don't laugh at people. Clear? Because losing 3k per hour isn't even worth factoring into calculations. It's like ranting that barrows armor costs 3k per hour to repair when doing GWD. It's a minuscule amount, and in reality is around half that (25-30% loss is about correct). The amount you lose directly correlates into how bad it is; losing 1.5k per hour doing something is meaningless, while losing 1m an hour means you should probably do something different.

Haha :lol: I dont think he ment it quite that way. Thanks for help so far, I was thinking about Aviansies since I would like to get my range up also. Whats about the gp/hr and xp/hr there? Any other tips greatly appreciated. Well i get about 25-30k Exp an hour along with 250 - 300k money. Some people say you can get more but that might just be because of they "crazy mouse skills" Since you seem to think that 'crazy mouse skills' is so hilarious, I might as well elaborate. [hide=][bragging time] I work as an IT professional, (making more money then you most likely ever will, with an IQ at least 30 above yours), at a job that requires many hours a day in front of a computer. As a result, I type at 130+ WPM and can analyze\move the mouse to click (at my personal laptop, with a VX Nano or G9 w\ 2000 DPI tracking @ desktop) far faster then your average high school student with a garbage generic mouse. And yes, I tend to get arrogant about computers. Early apologies, this forum just seems to be suffering from an influx of idiots lately. [/bragging time][/hide] I've found it makes a huge difference in that I'm able to anticipate clicks and achieve very high XP rates. Your Avansie numbers indicate that you are clueless about efficiency and fast clicking, as I can easily break 60k XP and 600k profit at Avansies, and considerably more then that at green drags. Feel free to take a look at Zarfot's guides in the RS forums; he's one of the top efficiency\clicking experts, and his guides have plenty of tips on anticipating moves and overall efficiency that'll allow you to (almost unconsciously) boost your XP\GP rates a large amount. You are right about you earning more money than i ever will. I never will have to work for a penny in my life. See my dad owns some stock in the oil market giving him a net income of about $200k a month. Oh about the iq thing. I highly doubt you have an Iq higher than 143. Tested and proven by MENSA. No get back to work child [hide=Personal Debate]Obviously the IQ thing cannot be verified, as I can easily lie about mine; it was, however, tested to be 139. I have my doubts about 143, which would put you as scoring in the .01% bracket, but I can take that as face value and assume similar results. I find it interesting how you mention your dad owning stock, then call me child. How old are you, precisely? I'm probably old enough to be your father. Although honestly, I love my job and can't see how I'd get along without work. I've seen too many spoiled rich kids turned into fat, miserable slobs with money as the sole reason for friends. Not sterotyping, but having nothing productive to do all day would kill me. Sort of like the study on how winning the lottery has ruined many peoples lives :-#[/hide] Could you repeat for me, again, how many times you've tested green dragons and avansies? I've got around 40 hours at green dragons, and 70 at Avansies. I'm still curious as to how your obtaining your numbers, as your getting roughly half mine; indicating that your either doing something terribly wrong or are simply far slower and less practiced.

Not a chance. Addy bolts out hit them. Addy bolts out hit obby rings too. My point was that they only hit 1 or 2 less than the rings, are just as fast , but cost half as much. How many hours have you tested this, exactly? I've had 70+ hours of ACCURATE testing. And by accurate I mean 'stopwatch and screenshots'. Not to be condescending or anything, but you do realize I've gotten more range XP at avansies alone then you have in your entire RS carrier? Sorry for coming across as an arrogant jerk, but it irritates me when people make irrational statements obviously not based on real world tests. Plus, my range level (and range level when testing, I've leveled from 78-98 almost exclusively at avansies\spirit mages) is much closer to his then yours, indicating that my results would be closer in terms of accuracy and hitting power. You notice that I never said that you will get X amount of experience in X amount of time, right? I simply stated that the hunter's crossbow could be an alternative to obby rings. Why must you be so closed minded about new suggestions that could provide a viable alternative? And honestly, it takes not even 5 shots of each weapon to determine the speed. I figured out the max hits from use in Fist of Guthix; for both of them they maxed about every 3rd hit. That's wonderful to know. Unfortunately, max hits don't quite represent the entire spectrum, and XP rates over 40 hours tend to be slightly more accurate then 'i used 5 shots in FOG and this ones max hit is higher so its better!' And FOG =\= Avansies. Test the monster, don't test somewhere that has almost nothing to do with Avansies. You can't even pot at FOG, and I doubt you carefully recorded rates with the standard 10% range boost and full void equipment set identical to the one used at avansies. Look: It's nice that you suggest alternatives, but I'm telling you: I've tested everything, including crossbow, extensively and accurately, and throwing rings far outdo them in terms of both XP, stealing, and GP. (As for stealing, it's very satisfying when someone yells at you for taking 'their' avansie. Just follow them around and attack whatever they do; you'll outhit them 97% of the time until they hop. It's easily possible to chase everyone out of a world, and make whoever comes hop quickly.

Haha :lol: I dont think he ment it quite that way. Thanks for help so far, I was thinking about Aviansies since I would like to get my range up also. Whats about the gp/hr and xp/hr there? Any other tips greatly appreciated. Well i get about 25-30k Exp an hour along with 250 - 300k money. Some people say you can get more but that might just be because of they "crazy mouse skills" Since you seem to think that 'crazy mouse skills' is so hilarious, I might as well elaborate. [hide=][bragging time] I work as an IT professional, (making more money then you most likely ever will, with an IQ at least 30 above yours), at a job that requires many hours a day in front of a computer. As a result, I type at 130+ WPM and can analyze\move the mouse to click (at my personal laptop, with a VX Nano or G9 w\ 2000 DPI tracking @ desktop) far faster then your average high school student with a garbage generic mouse. And yes, I tend to get arrogant about computers. Early apologies, this forum just seems to be suffering from an influx of idiots lately. [/bragging time][/hide] I've found it makes a huge difference in that I'm able to anticipate clicks and achieve very high XP rates. Your Avansie numbers indicate that you are clueless about efficiency and fast clicking, as I can easily break 60k XP and 600k profit at Avansies, and considerably more then that at green drags. Feel free to take a look at Zarfot's guides in the RS forums; he's one of the top efficiency\clicking experts, and his guides have plenty of tips on anticipating moves and overall efficiency that'll allow you to (almost unconsciously) boost your XP\GP rates a large amount.

You also get hit more often when wearing void + Bunny (at least I did, 99 defence) and I had to use up invent space on food which makes me lose out on gp/hour. Whereas with a Bunny + Prosy not only do I maximize my invent space I can also make less trips to the alter which does balance out to more exp/hour. I have tried both ways and I find myself gaining more exp/hour with Proselyte. Yea an with void you miss out on bonuses with the Neitznot, Barrow gloves, and even bandos. I really never noticed a difference in void to the set up mentioend above, exept for maybe a 1-2 more damage and maybe a bit more accurate, but the defense loss doesn't make up for that whatsoever, so no don't waste your time like I did. The max would change 3 or 4. The max hit would change around 1.4, and would force you to pray almost twice as often. Plus a bunyip will barely keep up for healing, and anything less then super setted 99 defence with piety will require food. And even then your flirting with 40- HP at times if you get unlucky.

650k + 200k worth of charms. Doubt if you want, but don't knock it if you haven't tried it. Maxed stats, piety, maxed strength bonus with DFS, war tortise or higher summon, crazy amount of practice, highly efficient mouse skills. Let me know how you do, but remember, practice at least 40 hours before you start taking down numbers. That's what I did.

The stubborn won't agree... don't waste your time too much :roll:...But I do see what your saying comp :) Good, most people seem to have hard time with that :-#

I think it is 20%, but it probably does differ. I also do lose more than 50% of my bronzes though :evil: You realize that's a cost of, like, 3k per hour? And that your wasting massive amounts of XP and GP by using anything under mith arrows (but that's another argument for another thread ;) ) I really don't care if it's a loss of 1 gp or 1,000,000 gp, it's a loss. I hate losses. Also, I don't see how using cheaper arrows is a bad thing. Well in that case, why don't you use dragonfire bolts without an accumulator? After all, you don't care if it's 3k or 3m your losing per hour. They are both 'losses'. Are you one of those people who picks their own flax, spins their own bowstrings, cuts their own yews, makes their own bows then proclaims about how much money they are making alching, laughing at the 'poor saps' who 'spend millions of gp on 99 mage buying yew longs'?