compfreak847

Cost and value are the same thing in RS. An item's value is determined by the amount of GP\money attached to it, irregardless of the money you bought it for. Therefore, if that items value goes down, you have lost money. It does not matter how much you have earned with it. Many people are saying things along this line, but you mentioned it specifically so I qouted you. Put simply, this is wrong. Cost and value are not always the same thing, I tried to show you this with experience for skills in your rant but you never did manage to grasp it (although it is slightly different for skills). You may buy item X for 1mil, that does not mean you value it at 1mil though. Value is determined by how much you'd be willing to pay, not necessarily how much you do pay. Say you buy an item for 1mil, later it drops to 500k, does that mean you value that item to be worth 1mil? It may cost that, but that doesn't make its value. I have an example of this from my experience. Of the three Saradomin Hilts I have gotten solo, I only sold two of them (one for 107m and the other for 45m). The first hilt I got I never sold, it was worth 112m average price on GE at the time. To me it was not worth selling. I personally valued it higher than what was in the GE. Does that mean if in the GE it was worth 400mil that I would have sold? Not necessarily. So at its current price of 45m average, does that mean it lost value? More specifically it has dropped 67mil since I got it, does that mean I lost 67mil? You could argue my banks net value dropped by that much, but that doesn't make a good argument. I never had any intention of selling it, and I consider it priceless. I hope that got my point across. I believe this is the point Pureprayer is trying to get across. Your value of an item does not change simply because the price dropped/rose. We seem to have two seperate arguments here: #1: The item is still worth the same to you #2: The item is still the same cash value (money). #1 is correct; just because the amount of currency assigned to the item has dropped, it doesn't make it any less useful to you. #2, however, is incorrect. As mentioned before, money is the cash value assigned to an item - if that cash value goes down, so does the money. As such, you have lost money.

You're basing this entirely on people doing things constantly. You're saying that the second you finish an hour of alching, you teleport to the nearest rune essence mine and immediately start slaving away. No time for a break. No time for leaving lost city and getting to rune essence. No, we simply just "insta-port." You should probably also take in to consideration the time it takes you to buy the items you will be alching. B staffs are easy, sure. But I have a feeling getting a couple hundred rune maces/adam plates and whatever else gives small loss will take some time. While you're at grand exchange buying your items, I'm already at the lost city buying my rings with no lines and no waiting. Even if you buy 100 at a time, and hope the rest update slowly through the hour...Isn't that time spent checking the GE and withdrawing the bought items? Doesn't that compare to oh I don't know...clicking trade and Buy x? Now even if you buy all the items at once, don't you have to type in the names of the items you're buying? Doesn't that take time? What if the middle price isn't selling? What if you have to go higher? If you're going to nit-pick every second in my method, you better believe I'll do the same. 11 minutes in not much time at all. It could be because it's 1 in the morning, but I don't even know where you're getting 49 minutes from in the first place. Do you want to know what I did in the last 11 minutes? Not a damn thing. You don't like the guide? Don't use it. But based on how you're responding, you alch ALL DAY EVERY DAY! If I don't see you alching tomorrow, I'll be very upset \ Not what your talking about, I can put an order in the GE in approx 3 seconds and click collect -> alch in about 5. How long does it take for you to get from Varrock to your store? If it's over 8 seconds, I'm afraid your entire argument just shot itself in the foot.

Technically, its not really. I just find that, with practice, I can do my 7 lob spot very, very quickly with minimal run and prayer. And that way I don't have to deal with all the healing and risk required at the 9 spot, plus the enormous extra hassle.

You nicely failed to mention that while your method results in a 29 GP loss, mine results in a 50 GP loss (Or a 37 GP loss, if one is only playing for 1.5 hours per day), making the overall results: 182.7k for your method in 60 minutes 175.5k for my method in 49 minutes - 11 minutes to earn 7.2k, or 39k per hour. Can your newb make 39k per hour? Yes, he can, all he has to do is mine 300 pure ess. So your method is resulting in him having less money. Redoing it with 50 gp loss gives us: 163.8k for my method in 49 minutes - 11 minutes to earn 18.9k, or 103k per hour - 750 pure ess; even a newb can easily mine over 1k in an hour. And crafting nats is much faster money, as is a huge variety of other things he could be doing like tanning d hides\green dragons\avansies.

How can you state that THIS is correct: How can you assume how many times someone slips up? How can you use that to base further calculations off of? You can't. Show me a place that sells an unlimited supply of battles, adamant plates, rune maces, or whatever else it is you people are so set on alching, and I'll tip my hat to you and have this guide removed. Oh, and they better be available. Every damn second. If you're that obsessed with the fastest xp, and clearly don't care about losing money, then why are you alching? There are a whole bunch of faster methods. I wouldn't even dream of using my own guide for leveling. But maybe...just maybe...there's some kid who spent a whole day mining rune essence because he didn't want to buy it. He spent a whole day runecrafting that essence in to nature runes because he wanted the xp and didn't want to buy them. He then wanted to use those runes to train his magic level. And maybe...just maybe...after all that work he did at no cost to himself, he wanted to make over 200gp a ring by alching ruby rings in the lost city. This guide is for him. You will, please notice, that I redo the calculations without the messup factor towards the end, though I firmly believe that to be accurate. *ahem* The kid you described would have to play over 7 hours a day to mine, craft, and alch that much. I'll expect the tip of the hat and guide removal promptly. As per the kid you described, don't you think he'd rather get the alching done faster by spending an extra 14k, then use the time saved to make triple that? I always thought 60k > 14k.

103k XP\190k profit w\ maxed stats. The search engine is your friend. http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=767739

It's called posting while luring rock lobsters :-w A few mistakes slip through every now and then...

It's a bunch of "lets assume that" and "possibly" thrown together into a math equation. I'm saying it's better to do it this way IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO DO IT THE OTHER WAY. Less gp loss per spell = better for people with money restraints. Oh, and if you're going to try to insult my intelligence, do try and spell your words correctly in the punchline. *sentences Forgot the e ;) I word it 'let's assume' for the purpose of calculations. "Let's assume" the average player can make 450k. It means I'm going to do my calculations using that number. It has nothing to do with where I got the number from. Feel free to show where I used the word possible. Your method is saving 20k per hour, at the very most - but it's being done in a way that, given time lost from moneymaking methods easily open to the average player, is actually costing them a significantly larger amount then that due toopportunity cost.

All of your XP arguments have been hashed out in the previous 1,200 pages of replys ;) I have just one comment on the black demons: it's certainly not 100k range XP. Experiments\Yaks are, at most, 65k XP\hour - monsters with 1 defence that you don't have to bank on or get as a task, without time to get there factored in. Besides, Avansies\Chins are 160k range XP\hour, free :P

Zomg I do that method of bandos 222 d00d i g3t leik 1billion magik ecp a sekond man. Ra8 pl0z You do not lose 15% exp a hour(maybe 5% TOPS). Sure, you can alch battlestaves. Too bad 100 a day eh? Check your own "method" before you rant on others. Anyways, for people suing this, to stop the guy from wandering, talk to him, then start trading/alching. if you talk, but dont complete the convo, he will stand still staring at you. No mroe chasing around. 5% = Assuming 25 alchs per hour are messed up due to the 28 inventory\RL distractions, we get 30 alchs per hour lost, or 98 At 1,045 alchs per hour, that's 40 inventorys of alchs - meaning your finishing your final alch, opening up the shop, clicking buy X, waiting for the window to appear, typing "26", waiting for the rings to update, closing the shop window, navigating back to the spells tab, and starting the alch of the next item.. all in under 2 and a half seconds, less then the time of one alch. Not likely, I'd consider at least 5 seconds more likely, and probably considerably more then that if you include the time traveling to and from the shop + messups from the much more complicated procedure compared to 'press the 5 key twice every 3 seconds' of regular alching. Plus you can't do anything else in RL like watch a movie\surf the web, which virtually everyone does to stave off the boredom of alching. Air\Water battlestaffs, rune maces, and adamant platebodys together buy for 2.4k per day and an average loss of 50 gp per alch, or 50-29 = 21k per hour of alching more then this method. The average player can easily make 450k+ per hour with Avansies; we can use that for calculations: 21/450 = .046, or 4.6% - meaning you have to be able to buy all of the rings for each inventory in under 2.5 seconds just to make it even. And even assuming you can open the store and buy all of the rings in under 1 second (physically impossible), your forcing yourself to pay 100% attention and do far more clicking\mouse moving for a grand total savings of 14k per hour. Making up numbers for data has no relevance, so I'm ignoring that portion completely. Personally I think mouse keys are stupid. If you'd rather watch a movie, go watch a movie. Any idiot can press the 5 key over and over again. This is why I despise RS2. The game is simply too easy. Everyone is rich. Everyone can buy 99 magic in nature runes and just sit in a bank all day and alch and not worry about profit. Want to know the only way to get nature runes years ago? Thieving the nature rune chest in ardougne or TELEGRABING off an island in the deep wilderness. I'm sorry but if you kids are that obsessed with losing a few hours for something that already takes a long [wagon] time anyway, then by all means, wait for the GE to update and alch 100 BS a day. But for the people who can't afford to lose all that money, or the ones who actually play the game to, well, play the game; this guide is for them. and I note: that is clearly stated in the beginning of the guide. Yes, I certainly made up the 1.1k alchs\hour and 450k profit that I used for the 4.6% calculations. And you completely ignored the 2.4k alchs per day, not 100; did you completely skip over any part that contained numbers or overly long sentances? Your argument is basically "yeah well its better to do it the slow way cause then u have to work for it so its funner'. By that logic, shouldn't you just alch nature runes or Elysian Shields?

No, Duradel doesn't assign those and they barely make any money.

Precisely zero. Your speed is regulated by your ISP, it has nothing to do with your computer. All it can do is a little MTU tweaking, and that's not really going to do anything. Most of the programs are snake oil anyway :-#

They hit 20+ almost every time, prayer is REQUIRED. They earn around 500k per hour. You do know you need 83 slayer, right?

It stays with you, even if you log\hop\die.

If you make a valid edit, you can include your name. So I could go update some information under the name 'zezima' and it would show up under the credits. In short, no.

Spirit mages are around 60k xp and 300k+ profit per hour. I'm not sure about abyssal demons but I've heard they're pretty good too. Maybe you should crunch the numbers like you did with the fighter torso. 287 That's averages for what I get with moderate attention, most tasks earn very little or actually lose money. If you want some number crunching look at the last 31 pages of this thread :-w

# of players training defence level 60-70 with 12m cash laying around = ??? 3? # of players with 70+ defence looking for a good platebody with 12m cash laying around = ??? 300k?

Err... I guess.. that's an interesting theory :? The advantage of Zombies is that you'll be a rich level 130 decimating those 120s instead of a poor 110 getting owned by them :lol: I'm going to be a 113 destroying those 120s with 95 att/95 str LLL The theory DOES happen. Would you find it fun training for 2hrs more than me, and get 2hrs less (Insert your fav thing to do here)? But get 100K more <- OMFG People say Slayer is fun, wow, I can do W/E I want while I kill Zombies, even 'Pleasuring myself ;)' Zombies are the ones that earn more, I can't see any disadvantages \ The last 3 words in your post scare me, though. Remind me never to touch your keyboard or mouse :-s

Hmm so everyone on earth has 16 email accounts? Or multiple per account.. Wow that's hard to believe. On topic though thanks for giving us a heads up, it's good to be reminded to be vigilant once in a while. For me at least :P I have 14 email accounts with a combined total of over 300 spam messages per day. And I'm EXTREMELY cautious about letting anything get my email address; my friend posted his on a small website as a test and is averaging over 600 spam messages per day (rapidly increasing) on that account. Bill gates receives over 4,000,000 (4 million) spam messages per day. Over 95% of all email messages sent are spam, though the vast majority are filtered out at ISP level and never hit your inbox. It's an indisputable fact.

Yes 90% of runescape has a learning disorder. That disorder is being 12. I, personally, resent that remark. I've been playing since I was, ohh.. nine. I think I haven't mangled words as badly as I've seen other people mangling them since I was ten, which was three years ago. Please, remember: age =/= intelligence, ability to spell, maturity, or sanity. I'm not perfect -- no one is -- but I try my hardest to spell correctly, especially on 'teh intarwebs'. Now stop calling the immature people twelve-year-olds (try nine year old instead :P ) and do more important things, like having fun. A 12 year old, on average, is less mature then a 21 year old. There may be exceptions either way, but there are biological differences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontal_lobe) between the two that means the vast majority of 21 year olds are smarter and more mature then most 12 year olds. Same goes for 9 to 13. On average... right, I forgot that I'm a wee bit above average XD. However, the majority of RuneScape players are teenagers, NOT 21-year-olds. It still grinds on my nerves when I see someone -- who almost has to be older than me, with the current state of affairs -- using worse grammar and spelling than I, though. I'll give some leeway because of the lack of space, but there's this little thing known as breaking your sentences up into smaller pieces... 'Sides, I'm a known grammar Nazi, this kind of stuff drives me absolutely insane. Still, the average 9 year old's grammer\knowledge < the average 16 year olds. And how do you know how old the people arguing with you are? 'the current state of affairs'? My friend's son has played since he was 6 years old. He's now 10, and he's fairly high level - but completely lacking in knowledge and maturity, like most 10 year olds. I was referring to the 'if you admit to being less than thirteen you have to use quick chat until you're 13' thing. And I can tell that posting here was a mistake if I want to keep my temper from fraying, so if you don't mind I would like to agree to disagree and leave so I can debate something that I think is less likely to spontaneously combust, like... oh, forget it, all debates are likely to turn into flame fests if there are the wrong type of people (not necessarily you, but just, in general, trolls) around... so let's please agree to disagree, go our separate ways, and I'll go back to saving up for a cannon and training Slayer. Then why did you directly quote and argue against my post? Look, this isn't even an argument. All I'm saying is that on average a younger player is less mature and knowledgeable. Although there are a few exceptions, that's an indisputable fact.

Zomg I do that method of bandos 222 d00d i g3t leik 1billion magik ecp a sekond man. Ra8 pl0z You do not lose 15% exp a hour(maybe 5% TOPS). Sure, you can alch battlestaves. Too bad 100 a day eh? Check your own "method" before you rant on others. Anyways, for people suing this, to stop the guy from wandering, talk to him, then start trading/alching. if you talk, but dont complete the convo, he will stand still staring at you. No mroe chasing around. 5% = Assuming 25 alchs per hour are messed up due to the 28 inventory\RL distractions, we get 30 alchs per hour lost, or 98 At 1,045 alchs per hour, that's 40 inventorys of alchs - meaning your finishing your final alch, opening up the shop, clicking buy X, waiting for the window to appear, typing "26", waiting for the rings to update, closing the shop window, navigating back to the spells tab, and starting the alch of the next item.. all in under 2 and a half seconds, less then the time of one alch. Not likely, I'd consider at least 5 seconds more likely, and probably considerably more then that if you include the time traveling to and from the shop + messups from the much more complicated procedure compared to 'press the 5 key twice every 3 seconds' of regular alching. Plus you can't do anything else in RL like watch a movie\surf the web, which virtually everyone does to stave off the boredom of alching. Air\Water battlestaffs, rune maces, and adamant platebodys together buy for 2.4k per day and an average loss of 50 gp per alch, or 50-29 = 21k per hour of alching more then this method. The average player can easily make 450k+ per hour with Avansies; we can use that for calculations: 21/450 = .046, or 4.6% - meaning you have to be able to buy all of the rings for each inventory in under 2.5 seconds just to make it even. And even assuming you can open the store and buy all of the rings in under 1 second (physically impossible), your forcing yourself to pay 100% attention and do far more clicking\mouse moving for a grand total savings of 14k per hour.

Finished up my table: Sweet, I'm doing it. I had a spare 51m cash in invo (merching profit from the last month or two, hadn't been doing it as much as I should have :x ) and thought "I'd like to get my hands on a pack yak". I might even go all the way to 99, it would only be another 60m or so more \

Depends. If you take the most efficient method of obtaining charms, factor in the time using the best earning method, and subtract the XP given, you can come out with a number based on how hard the charms are to obtain. The problem is that the variables aren't always the same for everyone.

Err... I guess.. that's an interesting theory :? The advantage of Zombies is that you'll be a rich level 130 decimating those 120s instead of a poor 110 getting owned by them :lol:

Doesn't matter :P What pouches your making doesn't have any effect on the results; they both scale equally. Proof: I just changed the crimson charm XP to 20, my XP\hour dropped to 22k and all of my numbers updated, but the final GP\hour required remained unchanged. Everything's interlinked \