compfreak847

Yes, it is but they seem to be intent on leaving it as a balancer. That being said, the argument can be made (as before) that it's changing the game from skill to automated.

Don't count on it :lol: I started early, tried to control my eating in my 20s so I wouldn't have to change much if I did start gaining weight. And yes, it has happened despite that. The same thing happened to my father, so I guess I should have expected it :cry: Then again, with a BMI that hovers around 22, I'm certainly not overweight yet. But the spare tire cometh, and stress from the hard economic times isn't making me put in more hours at the gym :oops: How does clean & jerk compare to deadlift? Here in the US we don't do much cleaning or jerking. I'm working at triple plates for deadlift, but it's becoming a struggle to even maintain my current weight. Middle age is a killer...

Both of those are fairly easy. More skill generally isn't a bad thing. Be. Aware. Of. Your. Surroundings. So would you rather Jagex had a "enter PVP combat" option that ate, switched prayers, specced when your opponent dropped below 50 HP, and teled when you were out? I'm arguing against what I believe in to judge and hone my debating skills. http://xkcd.com/106/

Look, do we need to go through this again? I'm not counting "fun" in this equation, it's a mathmatical calculation to determine which gives a specific result in the shortest amount of time. I can say with unquestionable certainty that the most efficient method to train firemaking takes X amount of time vs. Y amount of time for herblore when the GP and other skill XP effects are standardized. But that is luck based, and as mentioned earlier, very few people can go to bandos GWD any time they want - near peak times, there are far more teams and profit rates drop; plus, few people have the luxery of being able to go to GWD and spend 4-5 hours without a break. 825k is possible, but not for the average player. Because your only training a portion of combat. As mentioned earlier, ALL combat skills must be taken into account. I'm referring to every rate argument we had leading up to where you left for a month and returned with your new rates. I have given my rates and the formulas proving slayer inefficient. Quite simple; it's the 16-32-64 max hit of 0-65-175 strength bonus proving the 50\50 split. This isn't rocket science. Continuing the analogy, we see the 3 elements before it with atomic weights of 275.4, 276.4 and 277.4, with the 3 above it at 279.4, 280.4, and 281.4. Yeah, it could be totally different, but it's likely 278.4 and at most varying between 276.5-277.3. Referring to the slayer->summoning XP rate listed in each task's details. I have proven them mathematically; opinionated arguments like you "know" it isn't going to help anything unless you post numerical proof. Other then that they differ from mine in some cases, and in others are using different rates (and are therefore irrelevant). I also thought you might find this quote from him interesting: You will notice that I gave my XP rate for Spectres. It could be assumed that from such it would be possible to calculate average task time. It may have come across to you differently, but that's how I interpreted it. What "evidence" can be given besides rates, which I have already given? So far, you still have not provided any mathematical evidence of a cannon being superior. It most certainly is; the pages of me and you listing calculations and arguing about methods are enormous. There really isn't much else in those pages. I've had 1 hour long sessions that vary 10%. I've gotten 25% variance in a 10 minute test at armored zombies. Taking a 6 minute example and trying to extrapolate it is laughably inaccurate; for all I know, you hand picked the best session. Heck, I could make armored zombies out to be 130 or 140k XP\h if I recorded a few minutes of my best rate. No, it does not. Those were not specifically my rates - they were my rates, taking into account Qeltar, Zarfot (and occasionally) your rates to see where mine differed greatly, possibly due to inefficiency of mine. Isn't it quite simple? Those are ALL the tasks I do. I did not include a cannon in results; calculations proved a cannon inefficient or having a statistically insignificant effect. As I mentioned earlier, profit rates and summoning XP can be found in my thread. I've spoon fed you enough; go back and look if you want the details. Slayer XP, for the most part, is melee XP / 4.

But I like debates :(

Ok :P I'm just saying that it's not a viable method for the average player. That's around 150k of it :lol:

No, because if they were no one would be getting 825k per hour. You do realize that there's no way addy bars can go under 1900 or so gp each? Only 20% less then they are now, and of course there's the rune daggers and other stuff that aviansies drop. But the location itself can't support many 825kers. 825k counts leeching off newbs and attacking twi specific avansies - a few more high levels doing what I'm doing would drop profit drastically.

It's part of being a skilled PKer. I'd rather some elements of the game were left to skill rather then eliminated by design, thank you very much.

[ Dark bow has a huge hit delay. You can tele long before the arrows even leave his bow. G maul has no long range attack; don't PK when there's someone standing next to you with a maul #-o

If your a pure\low level, you don't have nearly as much to be worried about PJing. Keep an eye on your surroundings and be quick with the tele and you'll never have a problem.

Because all experience value is NOT the same. Do you view herblore cape just as hard to obtain as, say, cooking cape? No, the herblore cape takes longer to obtain and earn the money for, and therefore the value of the XP is greater. Nowdays the average is roughly half that, but it's luck based and more competitive. Few people have time to drop everything in RL and go bandos for 4-5 hours. No, because if they were no one would be getting 825k per hour. No, you are training a portion of combat. There's a very large difference. No, I would not have. You stated your rates as if they were what you obtained, not what you "assumed" you could obtain. And I am just as adamant that you are wrong and are unwilling to admit it despite considerable evidence to the contrary. That's frequently known as a "debate". Further points to this nature will be ignored, as it's nothing but spam and is contributing zero to deciding with is superior. As stated before, my evidence is in the form of backing up the 50\50 split; if there were stronger evidence to the contrary it could be overturned, but as there is not it remains the most accurate conclusion at the moment. I have already gone over this several times. My main concerns lie in the large margin of error he gives himself - a variability of 30% makes calculations of this nature impossible. Additionally, as he is not separating his profit rates, it's impossible for us to adjust for the falling prices (Dark bow is a good example; what would be earned now is a fraction of what would be earned a few months ago), and in many cases his methods differ substantially from the ones we are debating. Someone your level could also have higher slaye rlevel then low. Averages must be worked for everyone, not a specific person. I posted discussing flame wars vs. actual debates. Pick which one you want to talk about. I posted my rates long before he posted that, as well as saying that I had read Zarfot's guide many times - further proof he never bothered to read my replies. Additionally, it's quite obvious I wasn't quoting him word for word; I was using exaggeration of his posting mannerisms to illustrate my point. Then read the earlier replies more carefully; I conclusively proved cannon to be inefficient at 400k\h, and no further evidence to the contrary has been presented. May I ask what purpose would be served by coping the first 40 pages of this thread into several posts again? Ah yes, that 6 minutes video of your rates. How could I ever dispute it :roll: Covered in the PM. Those rates were not my numbers alone; I took into account Qeltar and Zarfot's rates (and in two cases, yours) on tasks that they used similar methods to try and obtain the most acurate picture of what can be expected from those tasks.

Close your eyes, or don't right click on them...

Way, way too many of us in the USA pay by credit card with no other good option. Cheap for Jagex, too - credit card fees are low. Don't PK in crowded areas, or simply be aware of your surroundings and fast on the teletab. As a skilled PJer\Rusher, I can tell you that an experienced PKer has little to fear from us. We're pretty easy to escape.

But since we are referring to almost-solely Slayer training via summoning, we can accurately establish what level and pouches will be used. You agree not to post them or discuss methods without referring to my prior calculations?

PM sent to dfchester and ydrasil with task rates. If anyone else would like a copy, get in touch with me. Understand that methods will NOT be discussed. I've done enough spoon feeding as it is; if you wish to obtain further details, read my thread.

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Glorious_memories http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Defender_Of_Varrock http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Ratcatchers http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/My%20Arm's%20Big%20Adventure Did you just copy and paste all of those or what? #-o

Not when the link is relevant and backs up your point; otherwise your simply throwing out opinions as "facts". And what exactly is your point? That you're trying to get into an arguement that has nothing to do with you or this thread? No, but you certainly seem to be. The post where YOU started it is located at viewtopic.php?f=66&t=785300&start=120#p6609160. I'll re state my point, as you seem to be hopelessly confused: Providing a respectable source that back up your fact and proves it to be accurate will beef up your argument, shorten the total argument time, and eliminate petty personal argument that detract from the main debate.

Did you really just skip the past 2 pages of discussion? Please go back and read viewtopic.php?f=66&t=784101&start=320, you might find it very enlightening. At the end of the day, a company is designed to make money. If they produce a large profit, they can reinvest it in members to make the game even better, snowballing into an immense, awesome game. Pouring money into a large hole labeled "FTP" isn't a part of that plan.

Because it is impossible. We can't have every single person who's ever played RS come in and tell us how much they value XP, then average it to get a number. It can ONLY be calculated using time. No, I "admit" that bandos hilts were 43m when this post was typed and are currently hovering at approx. 18m. Stop acting like a flaming idiot. No they can't - if even 1/3rd the people at Avansies used my methods, everyones profit rates would drop BELOW 450k\h. That alone proves that few can do it - aside from the fact that in over 60 hours there I've never seen anyone else attempting anything resembling my methods. But it doesn't train combat, as combat encompasses melee, range, and magic. Could you point out where I said that? I'm really curious. Perhaps you have a rebuttal via your admittedly "made up" rates? I was trying to accommodate for them to pacify you, as I had no idea you were simply throwing out random numbers. Again, you most certainly do not. As illustrated by the value of experience, you continue to completely ignore many variables that I've pointed out for pages in favor of your own biased ideas. Because there is no other evidence with which to work. Previous testing of the combat system have indicated these calculations to be fairly accurate; in lack of any other evidence, they present a compelling argument. Again, he does NOT provide details. Not only are many of the methods he discusses completely separate from the ones we are using, his cost and charm estimates have a giant margin of error - his summoning XP rates frequently range from 30-40% low or high. Not very helpful in a mathematical comparison. Because summoning XP varies as levels are gained, which must be accounted for. You can't use, say, a level 90 summon for all of your crimsons starting at level 1. But that has nothing to do with the topic of moderators and flame wars - those were over a single task, not complete rates. The complete rates were earlier, and therefore have nothing whatsoever with what you are discussing. Then explain why the flaming began over "LULZ I DO TASKS IN 20 MINTUES AND W|O CANNON ITS 2 HOURS), even though I clearly stated my rates of 47 minutes along with numbers proving cannon inefficient? What with how he completely ignores any calculations I've performed, it's quite obvious he skimmed through much of the thread. No, it was for proving cannon inefficient, indirectly leading to unicornn. Hundreds of pages of text. And yes, there's a limit on forum pages, but it's immense - I've only hit it once. Not going to take part in this discussion, but I'd like to add that 100k xp/hour at dusties seems pretty possible. I myself get 83k xp/hour with 10% str pray and 86/86/88 stats. Ydraisel claimed he was getting 112k melee XP with +10% strength and 95 melee stats. I somehow doubt that his 9 higher combat stats would result in a 30k XP boost.

Genius! +1 *sigh* Read the replies Last time we tried that, a mod had to come with a rather large fire extinguisher to take care of the epic flame war it spawned. I'm PMing rates to those who need them, but I'm not posting them publicly - people who don't have a clue what they are talking about will mindlessly flame methods without understanding the logic behind them, something that is gained if you have to read through all the replies to obtain the rates. PM me the rates please. : Will do. Having a lot of fun assembling them at the moment :-# :lol: I've realized that we never agreed on rates for dust devils, gargoyles, and two or three other tasks so I'm trying to verify my rates before finishing the table. It's taking me longer then I expected with the limited time I have, but I'm trying to hurry. Sorry about the delay :wall:

Yeah, I'm surprised this thread hasn't seemed to have many liars. Pure's pretty ripped from his RL pic, so I'm reasonably impressed :lol: Yeah, back in high school I was what they call lanky. Freshman year was 5' 10" & 125, 6' 0" & 130 after sophomore. Kept growing even into collage though to round out my 6' 4"\190. But lately I've noticed a bit of a spare tire, so I guess I gotta start working out more and working on the computer less. Sigh. Note to all you "lanky" people: your metabolism will likely hit a brick wall around 28-30... Enjoy the time of stuffing your face to try and beef up while you can...

woo-hoo About time for me to do a reformatting of my ubuntu machine anyway. I'll be torrenting this shortly. Seed generously \ EDIT: YES! THEY HAVE A MUCH BETTER MONITOR DRIVER SYSTEM! NO MORE TINY DISPLAY IN THE CENTER OF MY LAPTOP! I spent way to many hours with xorg.conf trying to fix that -.- EDIT2: If anyone's still having problems downloading, http://ubuntu.cs.utah.edu/releases/ is giving me a steady 180 KB\s.

Except that the rules stated that you NEED to provide a valid argument. Coming in and whining "i wish there was no RS instead of RS with pking like this!" isn't a valid rant on these forums. You should thank me for at least giving this thread a semblance of a discussion.

I gave detailed methods, and what did he do? Flamed about how inefficient it was. Never mind that there was 12 pages of numbers and calculations leading up to the conclusion that he never disputed (or even read). That's ALL my posts in that range were about! To post my methods is simple; to post the logic behind them is hundreds of pages, and I don't see the point in copying and pasting massive hunks of text and calculations from what is essentially 30 pages of debate.

Except that uninformed idiots who haven't bothered to read the details behind my methods respond with moronic posts filled with flaming and personal opinions and lacking any substance or numerical evidence whatsoever. *ahem*http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=765267&start=1360#p6597080*ahem* While they do make for humorous reading, they clog up the thread and obscure real posts, so I try to avoid situations like that. It's simple enough: If you want to debate my methods, read up on them first.