Zierro

Yep, Guthans. Gotta love the special.

The argument stems back into "people shouldn't feel a certain way". Do you really think the topic starter wants breastfeeding to make him lose his appetite? People can't control what they find unappetizing... Some people find the action uncomfortable, some don't. I could just as easily say, "It's not justifiable to breastfeed in a restaurant."

It stems back into, "People shouldn't feel disgusted by it." Maybe they shouldn't, but the fact is that they do - much like some of us feel offended by bad table manners and improper etiquette. Look, if you people really think I'm asking for much, then please think again. Read what Turtle had to say. I agree with her 100%. I'm not telling you to bend over backwards for society - only to have a little respect for those who find it uncomfortable. A blanket is completely sufficient. However, not budging one single bit in order to please both parties is lack of empathy.

Issy, no offense, but you seriously need to go back and read. You're only recycling arguments from the first few pages. Go to page 4. You'll see that I'm not offended by breastfeeding - I'm offended about the lack of empathy. To Rush, sorry but if you think someone who is uncomfortable with breastfeeding should wait until they go home to eat - then I think the baby can wait one minute until the mother reaches seclusion. Better yet, the mother can buy a shawl which will solve the problem completely and the baby won't even have to wait. Can we quit the two-sided arguments? I think you know exactly what I'm going to say.

I sure hope so. I already lost 3m from my BGS and I only had it for like a week. :anxious:

Actually, I said that because Nadril said the same exact thing to me, so I was just pointing out a bit of hypocrisy. I appreciate bands like Pink Floyd and I recognize Mozart's talent. It's the rap that I'm more concerned about. I'm not agreeing with every single word that's coming from Agun's mouth - just his main point. Actually Adio, I find your whole post a bit hypocritical too. You state that flaming is not the way to win an argument yet... Um... Hmm I'll just drop it, after all, look what the title in this thread says.

For your first point, I've already answered that since Lenin said something along the same lines as you. I happen to agree on that point, however if a baby isn't screaming or anything then I think it's alright to wait a little bit before feeding it - this is all completely situational. As for your second point, I answered that too. The mother has the option of pleasing two parties. There is the mother, the baby, and the uncomfortable people. A) Walk into seclusion or bring blanket. (Pleases baby and uncomfortable people - given the baby is not screaming) B) Breastfeed without concealing yourself. (Pleases baby and mother) You see, the baby is being satisfied already. It's the mother who chooses herself over the uncomfortable people - and that's where I got "lack of empathy" from.

Lenin, you're right. I'm sure many would rather have a baby being breastfed than having one cry. However, I'm sure that's not the case every single time, as you can see in the first post.

I don't understand why people think complete strangers are going to let them borrow their items which they've worked for themselves.

Yeah, strawman arguments are ridiculous aren't they? ;) PS: I'm agreeing with you Agun, to clear up any confusion.

And a woman doesn't need to feed her baby right that second. It can wait until she moves somewhere else. We were talking about conveniences. Saying that the baby must eat now! is just blowing things out of proportion for argument's sake. Baby's are known to wait a few minutes just like everyone else.

Remove Skills =/= Replace Wilderness with BH By removing skills, you are deleting all work done and all experience gained - rendering all that time skillers spent leveling completely pointless. By replacing the wilderness, you are only forcing PKers into changing what they put their effort towards. Instead of PKing, they now have the option to use their work to play BH or any other PVP game.

I don't see what the big deal is though. The mother has lots of options to please both her baby and the people of the diner. She could bring a blanket or shawl - she could move into a secluded area - she could go out to the car or bathroom. Why must men have to live by specific rules when going into a diner? Why is there a policy of "No shirt - no service," even when it's a man? There is nothing wrong with a male's bare chest. You see, it's not really that I'm arguing for political correctness - I'm really just trying to show how unfair this whole system is. If it is okay for a woman to drop all responsibilities and breastfeed, then why is it a man's responsibility to put a shirt on when it is also completely natural and no one is harmed? Why must a man inconvenience himself in order to be "politically correct" when a mother doesn't even have to bring a blanket? These political correct rules contradict each other. And I'm saying, they should either go one way or the other. And since things already seem to be going a certain way, it only makes sense to make everything that way. PS: I don't know why I didn't bring that up sooner. Although, you don't know how hard she actually did try. A "try" could be anything from putting her palm up to facing down and cradling her baby.

We're not really talking about nourishing the baby though. If it was really the mother's number one priority - she wouldn't care about accepting openly breastfeeding as improper etiquette in a diner. She would swallow her pride and bring a blanket, for the sake of her baby. Convenience? "It is convenient for me to ignore your pleas and do what I want, where I want." It's also courtesy to please both your baby and others around you by using a blanket or moving into seclusion. Instead of picking that which satisfies Uncomfortable People + Baby, the mother chooses Mother + Baby. Wait a sec... If it's not just considered nasty by a select few (meaning lots of people feel that way), then that still makes it completely fair? Where is that jurisdiction coming from?

Only a select few choose to breastfeed in a public restaurant. In all my years, I've only seen breastfeeding done in a pediatrician's office - never have I seen it done in a restaurant. That atmosphere is completely acceptable, however, others feel differently about diners. You see, I'm only asking for one thing. I've compromised already. The pro-breastfeeding side has not budged at all - not even when I suggested to sit in a corner and finally said it would be okay in diners as long as we couldn't see. What does that tell you? This issue isn't about the baby getting his food - if it was, the mother wouldn't care about walking a few steps to please her son. By refusing to do anything, she is only pleasing herself. If you ask me, this all has to do with pride. "I shouldn't move - you should move!"

That's what this all comes down to, and I'm glad we finally have someone on this thread that realizes that. I feel that someone who has paid to have a nice meal shouldn't have to move just because the mother refused to bring a blanket or shawl or move herself. And of course, you all feel differently. You see, in my eyes, you are forcing uncomfortable people into seeing something which makes them feel over all unpleasant, resulting in loss of appetite. But in your eyes, I am forcing the woman to cover up/move somewhere else while breastfeeding because it is considered unappetizing, resulting in loss of pride. Loss of appetite when you paid for your food and expected to have a good meal = Mother brings blanket to restaurant or takes a few steps to seclusion If ruining someone's appetite is not harmful, then neither is bringing a blanket.

I doubt he was really that serious. People don't get that stupid. He was probably just trying to get a bad reaction out of you all. Like a troll, but in Runescape instead of Forums. And we all know how to deal with trolls - outsmart them (shouldn't take much). ;)

Umm? When did I ever mention anything about psychological damage? There's a difference between getting the wrong idea about something and becoming psychologically damaged - big difference actually. No more putting words in people's mouths, alright? Yep, just like the idea of, "I'll do it where I want, whenever I want." You people say, "What's the big deal about breastfeeding?" Well I say, "What's the big deal about having a little empathy?" Did someone read the first post?

I know that, Dragon. I was saying that irrelevant flame-baiting was what got on my nerves the most, so I'm happy that we're going to see less of that now. As the topic starter said:

About time this was done. I was getting tired of all the people who posted the most irrelevant flame-baiting material on this forum. I never got why people fell into the fad of trying to humiliate others online. By the way, I don't think this thread should be about discussing who did what and what he/she said - bad things were done, and there's going to be a new change. Let's just leave it at that, without pointing fingers. I'm sure most of us here all said something inappropriate at one time or another too.

I never suggested for it to be "banned". Much like cigarettes have their own areas, I think breastfeeding should have areas too. I think I am mostly defending the children with innocent minds - they could get the wrong idea if their parents don't teach them about what they are seeing. Kids might just find the idea upsetting since they don't really know what's going on. Sometimes ignorance isn't always bliss.

Zierro - Florida

The pro-restaurant breastfeeding arguments always stems back into, "You shouldn't be bothered by it." Well, the fact at hand is that people do feel bothered. Otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

What makes you say that? I'm pretty sure some people would. It's illegal though so that's why you don't see it. People need to use the bathroom too. By the way, what is your definition of "necessary"? I don't think there are that many excuses as to why a mother can't just use a shawl or walk a few steps to take it somewhere else. The thing is, this whole thread wouldn't exist if that were true. Obviously, someone did see and he didn't want to. It all stems down to opinions. You say it's not a big deal - some say it is.

Differing cultures have differing etiquettes. In Japan, there is a restaurant where you have sex with an animal and then eat it. In other countries, it is perfectly acceptable to walk around nude in public. In some countries, it's okay to marry a girl who hasn't even reached adulthood. If breastfeeding should be alright in public restaurants because of the fact that we see it around the world, then shouldn't all of those examples I stated be legal here as well?