Zierro

Something can be real without it being proven. Pluto was real long before we had solid evidence for it. It might seem a bit silly to believe something without evidence, but that's not to say you can't be right.

But religion is one of the main reasons people believe homosexuality is wrong. More like ignorance\prejudice. There are plenty of Christians who are fine with Homoesexuality, and plenty of Atheists who despise it. Of course not all Christians feel that way, but as seen in this thread, some people are against it solely because the Bible is against it. Without bringing religion into the debate, we've hit a barrier and can't really discuss why that line of reasoning is flawed.

But religion is one of the main reasons people believe homosexuality is wrong.

I hate tattoos. Especially on females, because a lot of the time it makes them look masculine. I don't see how people can put a symbol or idea on their body permanently. I change my mind about things on a daily basis. I'm fine with most piercings though, oddly.

Because I choose to live that way. It isn't really about luck. It's whether or not she chooses to take those annoyances to an extreme level or just brush them off. Here's a good quote from Eleanor Roosevelt: No one can make you feel inferior without your permission. Yes, and inspiration tends to have an effect on people too - which is what I'm striving for here. When you treat suicide as a problem that needs to be fixed, you're telling them that it's wrong, discouraging them from choosing to do it, and pointing out the fact that they are NOT hopeless. When you try to justify it and say it's not really her fault, you're only being counterproductive in the fight against suicide. Imagine her putting her own body on trial before she made the choice to commit suicide. The case: Should I do this? The prosecution: The will to kill herself. The defendant: Her own body. By justifying the act of committing suicide, you are siding with the prosecution. I am on the side of the girl who got bullied - not the people who are trying to bring her down (which was the prosecutor [her will to kill herself] in this instance). Honestly, I think that she was treating herself worse than the bullies were treating her. Yes, if it wasn't for them, she would have probably not killed herself. They were monsters who have hurt her tremendously, but all the insults in the world cannot force you to kill yourself. In the end, the decision is 100% your own personal choice. As for her being hurt, I'd say both parties are to blame. You're just taking those who did not, and claiming that they could not. Where is your proof that it's impossible for them to do so? Seriously, besides herself, what was holding her back from moving on? I'm grateful that we can at least agree on that. Strangely, some people think that suicidal people have nothing to do with it and that it's not their fault at all.

Uhh, yes. Your constitutional rights do not hold up with schools. You don't have freedom of speech, the right to bare arms, and you also don't have the right to deny searches. We've discussed this in my Law Studies classroom. It's a common question that most students ask. It's stupid, but it is true. Apparently school rules override the country's rules. And now they are taking away your rights when you handle their school property, even off of school grounds. Now I can't decide who's worse. School or government?

A Christian having that in their signature would be ironic, but an atheist having that is fitting. The reason she has it in her signature is to illustrate a point of how ridiculous religion sounds - not because she actually believes a spaghetti god. You keep saying that you understand what a parody is but your posts tell us otherwise.

There is a difference between an excuse and an outright incapability. A paraplegic can't walk up a flight of stairs, so why blame him for it? A suicidal person can choose to not kill themselves, so it's no wonder some believe they are responsible for it. It's not like suicide is an involuntary action. As for those examples, I think it's ridiculous to use drugs, jealousy, and sexual urges as excuses to kill someone. Also, I just think humans achieve much more through existentialism than through pointing fingers.

So we have chemicals in our brains that automatically pick up knives and slash at ourselves? It's possible, but I highly doubt it. All I'm saying is that she could have done things differently. She didn't have to commit suicide. If you disagree with that, then you're telling me it was impossible for her. I take it you couldn't come up with a rebuttal. Don't worry, it happens. :wink:

Diminished responsibility, yes, but I don't see how having "uncontrollable sexual urges" justifies raping/killing someone. Sounds more like a cop-out if anything. That's just a list of excuses that the government gave us. It doesn't really hold any objective credence in our little debate.

Is that how you feel about sociopath serial killers who lock up, rape, and torture their victims? Or are the only people on earth who aren't responsible for their actions the suicidal ones? PS: It's more cold to try and justify it. I am trying to help people understand that they are the dictator of their own choices. They are in control. They are not hopeless. They are the one making the choice. You see, I am trying to get rid of that hopeless feeling that usually triggers suicide, whereas your argument is just reinforcing it.

I agree about the bullies being punished. Maybe you misinterpreted what I said. My point was that, regardless of how horribly she was treated, she is still to blame for making the decision to kill herself. I'm not trying to justify the bullies in any way whatsoever. Burn them for all I care.

Wow, this is a very ironic post considering what you just said in the suicide thread.

Exactly. I don't see the problem with filling in gaps with the most reasonable answer - so long as you are willing to change your beliefs if new evidence arises.

So what you're telling me is that she didn't make the choice to commit suicide? As for the claim that nothing is worse than that, let's just say you are very ignorant.

I will agree that it might not be completely her fault, but it's suicide we're talking about here so she is more to blame than anyone else. Simply put, she made the choice to kill herself. The girls were only manipulating her opinion of her own self worth. What they did to her was disgusting, no doubt, but they did not commit suicide for her. For lack of a better term, they were "peer pressuring" her into believing that she was worthless, and she chose to believe them and act on it. There was always the option of not committing suicide, but that's not what she chose.

Heh, talk about annoying. 1. The author is assuming what god's purpose was. Maybe he wanted to throw us off. Maybe he wanted this debate to occur. Maybe there is a use behind their anatomies that is not apparent to us. Maybe god just thought it didn't really matter. 2. What part of intelligent design suggests that god had the intentions of keeping every last specie alive? Again, there is an assumption about god's character being made. 3. So god's a sadist? What does that have to do with existence? And I wouldn't exactly call the circle of life sadistic. Same with sex. Is it perverted of god to make us have sex with each other in order to procreate? I see them as beauties. 4. This is just a twist of words. Reminds me of when people say to be more tolerant of their intolerance towards gays and stuff like that. I'm not trying to defend the intelligent design argument. I'm just pointing out the flaws in his criticisms. And yeah, after those points I got the gist of what the author is doing and it's not very convincing. The only argument on an atheist's side for disbelieving would be that there is no proof of his existence. Other than that, there is no evidence that suggests that he does not exist, so why he would go as far as claiming that he can prove it is well beyond me. Sorry, but judging by everyone else's responses, I think us TIFers are still tired from the last 300-some pages of theistic debating. Yeah, it's funny how many extraordinary claims some atheists make, in the hopes of logically disproving others' extraordinary claims.

I hate most 80's movies. Yes, they were original, but other than that they had nothing to offer. And dear lord, Azvareth, I hope you're talking about bands like Guns n Roses, because Iron Maiden can blow any metal band of today out of the waters. :)

Actually, this is why I don't exercise. I have no motivations because I'm already happy with being a twig.

I would disagree (not about the pool example). Parents have to change their whole lifestyle to ensure their child's satisfaction. It might be "selfish" to ensure another's happiness, but I don't think it's selfish in the context of all the sacrifices they make. Generally, when it comes to the traditional usage of the word, I would say it's unselfish to make sacrifices, despite the personal good feeling you get on the inside from doing so. Okay I see what you mean. I'd probably have to look into biology a little more before I can have an opinion on that.

I hate when people blame problems on inanimate objects like drugs, video games, movies, music, etc. when really the only thing to blame would be the things who are consciously making the choice to do bad things (people).

Pulp Fiction - Gets better every time. And I still hold the belief that it's a lot better than Reservoir Dogs. Crank - Good background noise and light. That's about it lol.

Oh come on, don't throw that phrase around. We can tell you to be more tolerant of our intolerance for your intolerance. :-X

By "traditional" I meant it would be selfish even in the eyes of a person who does not believe every action is self-serving. A person like that isn't going to consider it selfish to give up all of their own direct happiness for the sake of another human being, nor would they consider charity selfish. Everything we do can be considered selfish in one way or another, so the word loses a purpose and cannot be used to distinguish certain scenarios from others accurately. What's the point of the word if everything is going to end up being selfish anyways? It holds so little weight. I understand your point and I agree with it, but you have to realize how pedantic it is. I don't get what you mean here. Can you clarify a little?

Tap dancing bunny girl. And overall just people with scary faces.