qeltar

Ravian: Kudos to you.. your posts in this thread have been a voice in the wilderness.

An intelligent voice of dissent is a lot more worthy than yet another dogpiling twit. If you disagree with her, then reply to what she says in a rational way, rather than just spewing insults.

It all depends on how hard it is to get these things. The issue isn't 2 million gp, it's 4 million XP. That's a lot of time to devote to an item that can be lost. And the items are all you get from this alleged "skill".

Thanks magzar, I'll give that a try.

Or if they had a clue about how their game is actually played, or implemented a beta test program to help them get one.

magzar, for what it's worth, I mostly am where you are. I think this is a neat piece of content: it's just not properly integrated into the game as a skill. And the reward system is embarrassingly idiotic. Leaving the arguments aside for the moment, has anyone truly figured out this prestige/reset business? Last night I did a reset because it suggested I do so since I couldn't advance to the next floor at my level, but from then on I got 0 prestige points. Was I supposed to restart at the first level or something? How does this work? Thanks.

I think it's time for you and the others to cut the [cabbage] with the personal attacks and stick to the topic. She has as much right to her opinion as you do to yours.

I can't? Watch me. I don't expect them to ask my opinion personally, no. I do expect them to ask the opinions of players in general. But they don't need to, because they know better than everyone. (That's why most of their large content releases have to be reworked a month later.)

As I already said, resource skills integrate into the game by providing resources. Is Dung a resource skill? No. It provides optional enhancements that slightly improve the game in marginal ways. And there's nothing new or original about it at all. When they introduced Hunter, they created a new resource skill that provided several completely new ways of getting useful items. They didn't make it a massive rehash of existing skills. Suppose the Hunter "skill" involved you going to hunting grounds, taking off all your items, spending hours killing critters using only other skills, and then you only got rewards at the end by turning in tokens. Do you think the response would have been any different? Skills enhance my ability to play across the game, or provide me with useful items I can use immediately, or let me earn money. I can get fish with level 1 Fishing -- maybe not the best of fish, but fish all the same. At level 1 mining I can mine items that have a use. At level 1 RC I can make runes. At level 1 Hunter I can earn over 100,000 gold per hour by catching polar kebbits! What do I get at level 1 Dungeoneering? The ability to get to level 2 Dungeoneering. What do I get at level 2 Dungeoneering? The ability to get to level 3 Dungeoneering. And so on: repeat 50 times. Can you tell me how something can be called a skill when you can get to level 50 in it and not get ANYTHING out of it aside from being able to get to level 51?

If that's all you require for something to be considered a skill, then I guess Dungeoneering qualifies. So do Barbarian Assault, Stealing Creation and Fist of Guthix. And half the quests too. It's nice to have low standards.

Maybe for you. For a lot of people, there is. That's what a skill is about. Think of the word: SKILL. It means you develop an ability that lets you do things. Not you develop an ability that has NO impact on how you play except for letting you get a few trinkets. That's what a MINIGAME is. Yes. So? That's what minigames are about. A new skill should mean you train in a new way, not by rehashing all of the existing skills. Yes, everyone brings up Slayer. But guess what? Saying Dungeoneering is like Slayer is not anything to be proud of. It's an old skill, and one of the least integrated. They should be moving forward, not backward. And Dungeoneering is STILL worse than Slayer. You use the products of other skills, like Smithing and Fletching and Farming and Herblore, to make items to help with Slayer. You can't with Dungeoneering. You in turn get resources via Slayer that help train other skills. Not with Dungeoneering. Slayer is trained across the entire RS map. Not Dungeoneering. And so on. It's not even comparable. Let's see. Ever use a spotted or spottier cape when training Agility? Ever make a spirit kyatt? Gloves of silence? Extreme ranging potion? Hunter is a resource skill and is integrated into the game via the resources it provides. Other skills, like Agility, are integrated by the abilities they provide. Dungeoneering is neither. It is no more integrated into the game than Barbarian Assault is. (In fact, it's arguably worse!) Herblore. Combat. Cooking. Crafting. Are you serious? Yes, every minigame has a list of rewards you get by turning in tokens for things you do in a pocket world. Very much the point.

This couldn't be more true. LOL. We get a skill that we can actually play and interact with, instead of sit there and do a job that could be done by one of those birds that bobs up and down, and people think that this is MORE boring. Please make this skill less boring! All the other skills are so much more exciting when I just sit in the bank and turn tons of logs into fire! Or when I sit still at a fishing spot by myself and catch 1000s of the same fish and then throw them in my bank! These things are clearly more exciting! The people complaining don't play Runescape to actually enjoy the game. They want a new skill to be something that they can mindlessly level up so they can play the game of "Whose is bigger?" You made some valid points earlier, but now you've gone overboard. While what you say may be true in many cases, there *are* valid reasons why some people don't like this skill, and even why they don't consider it to be a skill. The recent trend in Jagex's updates, and even new skills, has been greater integration and synergy with existing skills and gameplay. This so-called skill goes in the exact *opposite* direction. While you need to use some of your real skills to do it, this is only based on level and nothing else, and there is virtually NOTHING going in the other direction. Aside from the item rewards, your Dungeoneering level has ZERO impact on the rest of the game. And that will remain so until Jagex artificially changes it by putting Dungeoneering requirements on quests. The issue is not whether or not it is boring -- all RS skills are boring. Certainly this is far less boring than catching 1.5 million chinchompas. But that's not the point. Where is the overall enhancement to the game here? I don't see it. It's a pocket world where you don't really get to take advantage of anything in RS itself except skill numbers. Where is the creativity here? I don't see it, except for a few new bosses. Everything has been rehashed and recycled. This used to be a standalone game, and unfortunately, it shows. Sticking it on an island and making tokens you can trade for items is not integration -- it's the model for an optional minigame. They copped out by not even making an attempt to create a real skill. A real Dungeoneering skill would allow you to develop abilities that could be used for other skills and other dungeons and other bosses. They could have made it so at a particular Dungeoneering level you got a small combat bonus against certain monsters in dungeons. Or maybe the ability to enter the Lumbridge caves without a lantern. A faster healing ability. A new fishing spot in the dungeon with better fish if you had the Dungeoneering level for it. Underground plants for woodcutting with the right Dungeoneering level. Special types of food. New armor that required adding pieces you got from Dungeoneering bosses. On and on. The sky's the limit here, but they didn't even get off the ground. They took the easy way out. And don't even get me started on the gameplay balance issues. There's no excuse whatsoever for an item that has a nominal level of 21 that can't be unlocked until level 74.

Well, don't tell anyone what you're doing then, or it'll get nerfed. ;)

So with everyone complaining about how slow the skill is, and the obvious fact that you can't get any rewards until you've gotten to way above the nominal level of the rewards, Jagex responds to an XP imbalance (that any competent QA team would have found) by nerfing the XP on F2P. What a surprise. Jagex could well be the most out-of-touch company with respect to their customers that I've experienced in many years. I used to think those who said this were being too harsh or exaggerating, but these recent updates prove it. They have NO CLUE how people use their content until after it is released. And they are too damned pompous to actually involve players before putting out their "uber game changing releases" which actually suck because their design teams never actually interact with their customers. This has been going on for a long, LONG time. Anyone remember the first week after Fremmenik Isles came out, when after completing the quest you could go to a multicombat "war zone" and get millions in drops without taking any damage? Somehow they developed that entire area and NOT ONE PERSON thought about what would happen after the quest was done? Then there was Summoning 1, which ANY long term player could have done a better job on. And the thing with the quest that let you bypass the doors to the Waterbirth Dungeon. And the extreme potions in PvP. And now this debacle. It's truly amazing. They spend hundreds of hours on these things, and ROUTINELY miss obvious flaws that players find in an hour. And yet they still maintain that they don't need beta testing. Would make an interesting case study of incompetency at a B school somewhere. There's still hope for them, though. Even Microsoft, after getting hit on the head a few million times, finally got the message. But it won't happen until they take a major hit in the pocketbook.

Please be nice to other forumers - Jimmy_Jim Stop pasting idiotic images of birds and try actually thinking about things, and you'll realize that with the prices Jagex has set on these items, they are going to take insane amounts of time and effort to acquire. This skill already does not appear to be particularly fast, and all of the rewards require very large amounts of XP. Plus, once you use up your tokens, that's it -- you get no other benefit from this skill at all. I bet you also can't trade them back, so you could spend 100 hours to get a shield and then you're stuck with it -- want a different shield? That'll be another 100 hours, please.

Range Shield + Chaotic Rapier = even more boned sideways Corp. And you only have to get 8,000,000 XP to get it. That's assuming you don't use your tokens for anything else.

As someone observed on another forum, this isn't a skill: it's an F2P marketing tool.

MHL: Calling this "lame" is simplistic. It is a very large piece of content, and it's clear that a lot of work has gone into it. It's not for you, and it's not for me. But as the old saying goes: "For those that like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing that they like."

It would be unreasonable to say generically that it's "bad". I'll just say it's "bad for *me*".

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. I think a lot of oldtimers are going to quit after seeing this -- probably myself included. Not out of outrage or anger, just because it is crystal clear that Jagex is taking RS in a direction very far from why many of us used to play it. The rewards from this "skill" are powerful enough that you'll be at a significant disadvantage if you don't get them, but the idea of spending several hundred hours in that hellhole -- especially "teamed" with groups of random morons -- is far more terrifying than any boss.

Remember Summoning 2? I guess I'll wait for Dungeoneering 2. Welcome to the Dungeoneering 1 beta test!

It doesn't matter that they called it a skill instead of a minigame. It does matter that we waited over two years for a new skill and instead got a minigame. And I'm sure many people will find it fun, but so far it really feels sterile to me, and the complete and utter isolation from the rest of the game is not enjoyable.

Having a hard time staying interested in this, to be honest. Maybe it's just because it's the lower levels, like any skill. But right now this strikes me as something I'll do just to get a few specific "above ground" rewards -- again, just like a minigame.

Well, I'm not usually one to judge things quickly, and I certainly haven't given up on this by any means, but so far I am unimpressed. This is not a skill, it's a minigame. And that's not because of the group aspect necessarily, it's because this skill is ENTIRELY segregated from the rest of RuneScape. I mean, you can't take anything from the rest of RS inside, all of the ores and fish and everything inside are totally different, and the only impact I see of this on other skills is a handful of special rewards you buy with tokens. That's a minigame, folks. Now, I don't think that's necessarily all bad, but after waiting over two years for the next skill, I was kinda hoping for a... skill. PS I log out to go to the bathroom and when I log back in I've left the dungeon? Great.

It's a valid choice for Jagex to make, but it has an undeniable impact on those who mostly play solo. Multiplayer means interaction with other players and doesn't necessarily mean having to be tied to the hip.