Obtaurian

Now, what other monsters are you having trouble with?

Well, I guess that's it. You fail to acknowledge my argument yet again. I almost wonder if you're just trolling, though I think that's quite unlike you. Maybe I'll try this one last time: If you never attack the monster your familiar is attacking other than the first initial hit to aggro it, how is it possible to kill it with a whip? Please explain that to me. If you can, I will kiss your feet. EDIT: I'm so eager to hear your response.

Again with the made up numbers, especially from someone who has never or rarely touched a combat familiar. Compfreak, you may be a master of pvp, but you are clearly lacking in the pvm field. You have argued using slow, inefficient methods, little to no experience, and you're making up very exact percentages and numbers like you just read them from the Slayer Bible. You are not a good Slayer, Compfreak. For all your combat prowess, you are clearly outmatched by low level monsters.

There you go making up numbers, which you chastised me for doing. According to Zarfot (a far more experienced Slayer than both of us) Terrorbirds are one of the best tasks for Slayer experience. Black Dragons are a 25 minute task at the most, so I fail to see how removing any of the tasks that I have blocked in place of Black Dragons would benefit me in any way. A cannon does not lessen the impact of a combat familiar. The familiar is ALWAYS in combat in cannonable areas, as ydrasil explained. In the CT there is a small room next to the large fire giant room that has a large number of giants. As I've mentioned multiple times, their HP and defense does NOT matter, as you should never be attacking the same monster as your familiar! If you're never touching your familiar's monster, how in the world are you going to kill it before your familiar does? The ONLY task that you're right about is Kalphites. They do have a set respawn rate, so using a combat familiar isn't all that necessary, but I just prefer the extra magic or range experience and I don't ever have problems with food due to my Enhanced Excalibur. Spirit Mages work exactly like Fire Giants. Seriously Compfreak, I like you a lot, but I really hope you don't tell people to attack the same monster that their familiar is attacking when they ask for Slayer advice. And besides ALL of that, you're making the argument that you want to save as much money as possible. This is Slayer. You spend money to obtain maximum speed in a skill that is slower to level than ALL other skills. Why should I worry over a few herbs and prayer potions when I'm slaying as fast as I possibly can with my levels? I'm especially surprised that YOU of all players are worried about money. Slayer isn't even close to as costly to train at maximum speed as some other skills, and I have absolutely no problems funding it with my skills, which are LOWER than yours!

I've bolded all of the tasks that I use combat familiars on. Thanks to pureprayer for the list. If I'm able to get all of those tasks done faster at a much high rate than normal, would you not agree that I'm gaining a significant boost in combat and slayer experience? Maybe not 15k, maybe not 10% increase in speed, but it's clear that it's a lot more than 2k increase. Your points regarding prayer potions and food are irrelevant, as that's just your preference. I don't mind micromanagemant.

In an opinion-based argument over what task are worth using it in. Your point? My point is that an argument based on opinions is like kicking a dead horse. For both of us. You like taking the relaxed route with healing familiars, I like getting my tasks done faster. It's all just preference now.

Well there you have it. We've been arguing over your opinion rather than the facts.

You can make that argument for a lot of skills.

The huge boost is relative to Slayer experience. If the low level Slayer has a Steel Titan, he'll still take months to reach 99 Slayer while the player who already has 99 Slayer is free to do as he pleases, including GWD. The time saved from doing zombies, could be spent at bursting rock lobsters. Are you telling me that a person who trained 100% at slayer will be better off then someone who is level 55 slayer in the end? On two threads you're making these ridiculous assumptions about me. I don't get it, really.

I've never once implied that Slayer is better melee experience than Armored Zombies, but I feel sort of loved that you went through my posts like that.

The huge boost is relative to Slayer experience. If the low level Slayer has a Steel Titan, he'll still take months to reach 99 Slayer while the player who already has 99 Slayer is free to do as he pleases, including GWD.

Impossible? I assume that you've never tried it, as you stated yourself that you use healing familiars. Unicorn takes 1-2 spaces when a Titan takes more. Two, titans take four. As I've stated a few posts up, it's easy to keep your familiar from dancing. You're welcomed to read my posts and find my explanation.

If I understood you correctly, you're saying that it's better to have level 1 Slayer vs. 99 Slayer when fighting green dragons for money as the level 1 had far more time to collect money. I contend that Slayer experience is far more valuable as it is one of the two slowest skills to level. Money is easy to make, and the level 1 Slayer would only be able to train marginally faster than the 99 Slayer, as Slayer experience is very slow regardless of your equipment. There you go. Slayer is trained at a rough maximum of 30k exp/h at max combat. Lower level players average 18k-25k exp/h at maximum speed. A huge boost is gained from using a Steel Titan. All of this information can be found in Zarfot's "Mega Slayer Guide 3" on the RSOF.

Impossible? I assume that you've never tried it, as you stated yourself that you use healing familiars. Space is only ever a problem for me on tasks like Terrorbirds and Waterfiends. Our problem seems to be that we utilize different methods when slaying. You take the more relaxed, slower route, while I opt for maximum speed and efficiency. Neither of us have provided data, so we're both basing our opinions on personal experience. Ydrasil (praise the gods you're here) can hopefully shed some statistical light on this debate.

Like I said, have the familiar attack a monster that you are NOT attacking. Having your familiar attack the same monster as you is a big no-no, and it'll only ever get one hit in before you get the kill. Also, like I said, the familiar will rarely dance if the monster it's trying to attack is moving, which it will be if you do what I said above. I did pull it out of my [wagon], but it's a good, rough estimate. Abyssal Demons tasks take me the duration of two bunyips (one of two tasks that I use a bunyip on). I can get through most other tasks with a single pouch. EDIT: You're right about Excalibur, which is why you sometimes need to supplement it with a little food. Sometimes. Most tasks it fairs just fine. And, I'm leaving now. I'll be back later.

Sure. As I'm sure you know by now, I'm a lover of Slayer. I also happen to love training it as quickly and efficiently as possible. When Summoning came out, I was excited to get my hands on a Bunyip, and since getting it, I've realized that it's unnecessary. Using pineapple pizzas, rapid heal, and piety, I was already able to burn through tasks without having to bank for food. Throw in a combat familiar and enhanced excalibur, and I never hurt for food while completing tasks at a much faster rate. This does not apply to Terrorbirds, as I usually need a few pineapple pizzas here and there. When using a combat familiar, always click call as soon as you're attacked, then immediately switch to another monster. The familiar will rarely dance, as it has an easier time attacking the monster that is usually dancing with YOU, trying to hit you. Familiars with ranged and magic attacks have a much easier time, obviously. Small spaces aren't usually a problem, especially with the aforementioned ranged and magic familiars. This method works for all combat familiars regardless of Summoning level, so I can only assume that a Steel Titan would be much better than the forge regent that I currently use. I really can't understand how you seem to have such a hard time on tasks. The only truly difficult tasks are Scabarites, which will kill you quickly if your concentration lapses. I also fail to see how using a healing familiar instead of a combat familiar is faster, especially at your level. Excalibur doesn't take an attack turn, and with it you don't need food (except on tasks that I've mentioned before). I agree with Tro's estimate of about 10% increase in speed.

Well, I figured that if my experience with Summoning should based on my Summoning level, that your experience with Slayer should be based on your Slayer level. I jest. But really, summoning is a great skill, and I suggest you try it out sometime. At your level you'd notice a huge difference in speed during tasks.

Considering that my Slayer level is higher than yours and you've shown me that you're really not very good at Slayer, I can't say I'm shocked with your response. I suggest you try them out. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

If I understood you correctly, you're saying that it's better to have level 1 Slayer vs. 99 Slayer when fighting green dragons for money as the level 1 had far more time to collect money. I contend that Slayer experience is far more valuable as it is one of the two slowest skills to level. Money is easy to make, and the level 1 Slayer would only be able to train marginally faster than the 99 Slayer, as Slayer experience is very slow regardless of your equipment. But past the 70 or so, all the slayer experience is useless and adds no tangible benefits to the player. About 90% of the slayer experience gained over the course of 99 doesn't contribute anything new except for a few training methods that give slower money than ones you can use without slayer. (And the ability to attack the avatar a little sooner in Soul Wars, but that doesn't really count.) While I definitely would agree that it's worth training slayer to a point, to unlock (for example) broad bolts, dust devils, slayer rings, or the fally shield 3, just about every task will be trained better with melee, and there's no task you can range that will be any better than ranging a monster off-task. So regardless of whether slayer as a skill is useful or whether slayer experience is valuable, ranged slayer will still be a poor way to train. My argument assumes that you place a value on total levels. If you don't, then I agree that you should only train Slayer to a certain point. I also agree that you shouldn't train Slayer using range. I never stated otherwise.

Black Demons - I'll take my combat familiar and piety for much faster kills. Dust Devils - Pain in the butt without a healer? How so? It's my opinion that much faster kills with a combat familiar is much less of a pain in the butt. Spectres - If you're looking for cash, bring a macaw. If you're looking for experience, bring a combat familiar. Gargoyles - Easy without a healer, especially with an Enhanced Excalibur. I don't see where you're having problems here. Fire Giants - You can take two giants and have your familiar kill one for you at all times. It's faster. Your problem is that you choose to slay using slow, inefficient methods, and you try to argue that those are the correct methods.

I completely disagree with your views on using combat familiars. Tasks that require extensive healing are rare. Not to mention that healing familiars are rendered completely obsolete with the use of an Enhanced Excalibur. A few pineapple pizzas and HP restore prayer are all you need for most tasks, and that's without the Excalibur. With a combat familiar, you're usually able to kill two monsters in the time it takes your familiar to kill one, and that's with relatively low level familiars! I'm actually quite surprised that you fail to recognize how utterly useful combat familiars are, even at low levels. Next time you train slayer, calculate the time saved by using a combat familiar. Press the call button the moment a monster hits you, and immediately switch to a different monster. At your summoning level, you should see a massive difference. At mine, I see a very good one. It has also been shown that CT Dags should be used if you care more about charms than Slayer experience, but that's just personal preference. I'll have to find those tests on bursting that you mentioned.

Charms help to buffer the cost, but it is still costly. We're no longer talking about Slayer, we're talking about the cost of magic experience versus melee experience. The Slayer portion of the discussion was in regards to how many skills you can train at once with Slayer. Eight. A combat familiar is used the majority of the time while slaying if you care at all about speed. A healing familiar should NEVER be used unless it's the only familiar that can be used (abyssal demons). A BOB should only be used if a combat familiar cannot be used (Dark beasts, wyverns). Where did you get your numbers for the experience rates? I believe it was Kent who came up with the rates I used.

I'm sorry, but your not getting it. Melee is 50k XP per hour. Charms make up for the cost of bursting, and magic is 180k XP per hour. There's really no comparison whatsoever, it's not as if they're 'similar'; mage is 3x as easy to train as melee, and the XP is consequently 3x less valuable. Magic XP is worth much less then melee, as melee is the hardest skill to train. Most, if not all slayer tasks require a healer, BOB, or other summon as much or more then wolpertinger; and with slayer, 92 summoning will only come at the last few slayer levels. You can't just magically throw in 15k XP\h from summoning. Melee experience is fast and AFK'able, bursting lobsters is not AFK'able, is potentially dangerous (only with the nine lobster spot, really), and costs a lot of money. The charms do cover a lot of that cost, but in the end you still spend a LOT of money to raise those two skills whereas melee is profitable, relaxing, and you still get decent charms and cash, which you have proven. You're right, so lets throw in a magical 10k exp/h from a Fire Titan at level 79. Still very much worth it. I'm still not quite sure how AFK'able, fast, profitable melee experience is harder than expensive, attention intensive magic experience.

If I understood you correctly, you're saying that it's better to have level 1 Slayer vs. 99 Slayer when fighting green dragons for money as the level 1 had far more time to collect money. I contend that Slayer experience is far more valuable as it is one of the two slowest skills to level. Money is easy to make, and the level 1 Slayer would only be able to train marginally faster than the 99 Slayer, as Slayer experience is very slow regardless of your equipment.