jettrider

So, what you're saying is that your theory is ONLY correct if Prayer and Summoning will be added, instead of being counted in sepparatly? WRONG, because if you would follow this, you should be able to level up from an odd prayer! I quote my post above! I agree with you! You can't level off of an odd prayer level. It seems not to matter because with the even pray level before it, you can level up with any A/S/D/H. Now imagine, to see my thinking, that summoning is just a way to boost the max prayer level to 198. Basically, yes, I'm willing to make the assumption that because they count towards combat the same amount that combat will be based off of a combination of summoning and prayer with the melee stat. This assumption is really key, and cannot be proved with prayer.

How can they count in your combat, while not being able to level it? :-k Because with an odd prayer level you can level up on an odd summoning level and vice versa. The combat formula does not give a fourth of a combat level every even prayer level. It gives an eighth every prayer level.

I never wanted to prove that you could level off an odd prayer level. In my post above, after doing the math myself, I came up with this conclusion: What I was really trying to prove is THIS ofcourse is the question, and this is a point that I neither agree nor counter. We will have to find out whether summoning and prayer will be counted separate or that they will be used together! So, it COULD be that leveling from an odd Summoning/Prayer will be possible in the future, but only if Jagex will use Summoning and Prayer together! I firmly believe that although they cannot level you to a new combat, or even if they can, odd prayer levels are still counted within your combat. Summoning will give us a chance to see.

I admit, this is out of my level of math here as for creating functions (I can understand them) and although I see your point there Systemless, but does it apply? | v 99 prayer equals 98 prayer in the RuneScape combat formula! The value prayer gets, is your prayer multiplied with 50. This, however, ONLY counts if your prayer level is EVEN. If it would happen to be odd, the value that is multiplied, would be your (level - 1). I've read maxwaterman's post, and while I think its great for being a more accurate calculator, I do NOT agree with the round your odd prayer level down. Let me first state that we use the same formula, me just with decimals. A level is a level; it doesn't become uncounted because its fraction is off! The reason he did this is as follows..(using my character as an example) 97 attack + 94 strength = 62.075 combat levels 99 defence + 99 hitpoints = 49.5 combat levels 99 prayer = 12.375 combat levels Total = 123.95 combat If we had subtracted a prayer level we would end up with 123.825, which could be leveled to 124 with any non-prayer stat. Therefore an extra prayer level doesn't matter with a dynamic combat level. However, it does matter! Its still there! There is no way that 126.23 combat is equal to 126.105 combat. Just because you can't yet see the effects doesn't mean that the max combat level is only as high as you can observe the effects (125->126). Consider this.. 99 attack+defence+defence+hitpoints = 113.85 99 prayer + 7 summoning = 106 prayer = 13.25 combat Total = 127.1 combat Whereas if we would believe that 99 prayer = 98 prayer and an odd summoning level gets rounded down 98 prayer + 6 summoning = 104 = 13 combat = 126.85 NOTE: 99 prayer + 6 summoning or 98 prayer + 7 summoning = 105 = 13.125 combat = 126.975 Here's another quote that I can counter: But with the advent of summoning, with summoning being the same as prayer level, it gives you an opportunity where two odds equal an even. 51+51 = 102, not round(51) =50 + round(51) = 50 = 100. As I said earlier, I'm out of my level of math, but this makes it clear to me that it does matter.

I don't understand most of your post. I quoted the part I did. Or does it? If you start with the assumption that your variable f is the same for prayer and summoning, you can make any of those f(194) instead without affecting your combat level. Your very own quote appears to agree with this.

I just don't understand what you mean by this. Based on the assumption that prayer adds to combat just the same way that summoning will, how can a total of 192 prayer/summoning levels be different from 192 of those levels with a different distribution? Explain what you mean by "the structure of the exact combat formula."

No. The max combat for f2p is still under 126.5; I doubt they'll ever be getting 127. There's only 1 f2p player with 126 combat now, anyway. This pushes the required prayer level to 97, which saves like...30m for f2p'ers O_o

Whenever I try to use it, it brings up an error message about a missing file. :wall:

What else would you use? @3 Hit U Thanks. I spent more time last night and finally cracked the rs combat formula :D As to who will be first, I doubt it will be Venom. They crashed after first day of hunter XD I'm betting some relatively unknown 126 skiller with 2k+ total will nolife it and get it within a couple months.

I can disprove this by using the starting level of 3. If the only skill that counted was 10 hitpoints, you would start at 2.5 combat instead of 3.4ish. A possibility for Jagex would be to somehow not make it count towards f2p combat, but I doubt it. Its hard enough to train prayer in f2p anyway

Here are my thoughts on the cost of summoning. A cheap buyable skill would be considered firemaking, where maples/willows give you more than 1 exp per gp you spend. An expensive skill would be construction or prayer, where you spend 8-11+ gp for every exp you get. Following this logic, summoning will most likely be 4-6 gp per exp. This comes out to 52-78m. I personally believe that Jagex will control the base price of summoning by offering a required item with unlimited stock at the Yanille Pet Shop. Summoning will be completely under their control in terms of price.

This concerns me, as I don't think you're talking about 96 being the assumed. Reread and you'll find its 95 (four levels less); the exp from 95 to 99 is 4263k. That's quite a big amount. If the skill is 25k exp/hour, that is 171 hours less needed for someone to get to 138.

I don't think that would work. That pretty much assumes the player has maxed melees with 98/99 prayer. There are endless possibilities of melee stats, along with rangers and mages. So no, I don't think that's a possibility. I've added f2p effects on main page.

they said similar to prayer, which i think suggests that its going to be able to have a level 13 with 99 summoning, i think its going to be the same formula as prayer, whats your formula? Remember that we start a 3 combat :wink: My calculator (which has been posted here) allows you to work out from Level 1 combat. May I link to that in the main post? For all those wondering the difference between 138.605 and 138.41whatever, his is probably right. I mean I haven't even discovered the rs combat formula yet. I spent around 30 minutes last night on paper with it but was always between a quarter and a half of a level off :( Perhaps 3 hit u could help? :pray:

It's actually 126.225(not trying to be a smartass, just pointing it out). Actually, it's 126.2151 :) I'll make a calculator within the next few hours with a link for people to test it out with Summoning. (a php one, web-based). Or if people would trust downloading a "[Caution: Executable File]" file, I'll do that in a few minutes, PM me if you want that link. I got rounded up :XD: Anyway, with 126.2151, its still 95 summoning. Therefore the lowest possible combat with 99 summoning is 15. As for the whole "is this a discussion" debate; I think its quite a discussable factoid. Either way, I'll add a question to the topic for you all to ponder.

Ok some more math based on 126.225 assumption. 11.775 combat levels to get with .125 per summoning level 11.775/.125 = 94.2 (went up .04) Its at the low end of the 94 spectrum.

Would go in rate this, and you'll need a picture to go with it.

Problem is, tip it doesn't give decimals. Say your maxed except for strength. There's a big difference (about two thirds of a combat level) between having 96 and 98 strength, but tip's calc doesn't show it. As for your last question, I can't answer for sure. Jagex says its similar to prayer, and I can't see why they'd make it different. Your question is intriguing though. A minute with my calculator told me that the minimum percent of a level summoning can be is .1185. That's a combat level every 8.44 summoning levels. As thats such an akward number that doesn't even round up to 9 I think Jagex would keep it at .125.

I was thinking that 99 summing would not yeld 138 combat, but a lower lvl was needed... i was thinking low 90s . But i was not going to go into that much work to see what is needed for 138 combat It helps when you've been thinking about it for several days and your account just got stuck in an offline world

It took me less than an hour :( I thought you guys would want to know what summoning level you need and what level is needed for first 138 but I guess not :(

The following dialogue is everybody's conversation about how 126's will gain combat levels with summoning. Random_Joe1: Heh, summoning will raise your combat to 138. Random_Joe2: Its supposed to be just like prayer. Random_Joe1: So that means its 1 cmb level every 8 summoning levels. Random_Joe2: O nice, I guess that means it'll only be 98 summoning for 138 combat. After all, that's what prayer is! Random_Joe1: But wait, it would be 98 if you had 98 prayer. With 99 prayer, you'll only need 97 summoning! Random_Joe2: U smart pls ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I've been asked how summoning will affect f2p. I'm assuming the skill will be p2p, but f2p will pick up level 1 summoning from it. This will give the effect of an extra prayer level free of charge. The max combat level is 126.23. Debated, whatever. We'll use it for now. Its something close to a combat level every 4 defence or hitpoints levels and one every 3 attack or strength levels. Prayer is obviously one every 8. Wait. Wait. Wait. 126 comes at 98 prayer. 98 is not divisible by eight. 96 is. Actually, neither 82 nor 90 is divisible by eight. All these calculations assume your attack, strength, defence, and hitpoints are 99. 98 prayer will get you 126.105 combat. 90 prayer will get you 125.105 combat. 82 prayer will get you 124.105 combat. And so on. Everybody assumes 98 summoning will be required for 138 combat. Lets do some basic mathematics. 138 combat - 126.23 max combat = 11.77 combat levels 11.77 combat levels divided by .125 levels per summoning level equals 94.16, or level 95 summoning. Now, I bet you've all whipped out either your calculators or your doubtfulness. 95 is such a strange number! Didn't you say 96 was divisible by 8? Shouldn't it be nearer to 99? I'll give you more supporting math if you'd like; all you have to do is click the hidden text. [hide=Mathematical Support] By Random_Joe1's Reasoning 96 is divisible by 8. However, you have an extra prayer level left over from 99. Therefore its kicked down a level to 95. By Multiplying the Value Out 126.23 added to 99 times one-eighth, or .125, equals 138.605, the new maximum combat level. Check it: If you subtract 4 summoning levels, 4*.125, it comes out to 138.105. [/hide] One point to add, if you haven't read the spoilers, is the new maximum combat level. Its 138.605. EDIT: 3___hit___u's calculator shows some difference. I don't think it matters much though. Now that you believe me, if you've actually read this far, is the meaning of it. Why the hell does it effect me? I'm going to give you the summoning level required for each new combat level. These will only work if you have maxed melees and a common prayer level. NOTE If you don't have maxed melees, tough luck. IF you have a combat level that is (#)##.105, you can still use these tables. You can tell if you have (#)##.105 if you need 8 prayer levels, 3 attack/strength, or 4 defense/hitpoints levels to your new combat level (basically, just leveled up). Subtract your combat level from 126. Subtract the difference from the new combat level. What if I don't have that type of combat level? If you're somewhere random in terms of combat level, you need to find a calculator that will tell you your combat level with a percent. Tipit's doesn't do it, and the only one I am aware of that does this is runehq's at http://www.runehq.com/RHQCalcView.php?id=00671 . Unfortunately, this calculator isn't 100% accurate. Once you know your combat level with percent, subtract it from your desired combat level. Then divide the difference by .125 and you have the required number of summoning levels you need to get for that level (not to be confused with total summoning level and ROUND UP. For example, I'm level 123.575. Say with the release of summoning I have 1 summoning and 123.825. I want 130 combat. 130-123.825 = 6.175 6.175/.125 = 49.4 summoning levels. Here is where the tricky part kicks in. I need 49.4 summoning levels - that needs to be rounded up to 50. Then I need to ADD my current summoning level to it, leaving 50+1 or level 51 summoning. 3 hit u has made a great calculator to figure out your new combat level with summoning. It can be found here. Use this table if you have 99 prayer Level 127 = 7 summoning Level 128 = 15 summoning Level 129 = 23 summoning Level 130 = 31 summoning Level 131 = 39 summoning Level 132 = 47 summoning Level 133 = 55 summoning Level 134 = 63 summoning Level 135 = 71 summoning Level 136 = 79 summoning Level 137 = 87 summoning Level 138 = 95 summoning Use this table if you have 98, 90, 82, 74, 66, or so on prayer Level 127 = 8 summoning Level 128 = 16 summoning Level 129 = 24 summoning Level 130 = 32 summoning Level 131 = 40 summoning Level 132 = 48 summoning Level 133 = 56 summoning Level 134 = 64 summoning Level 135 = 72 summoning Level 136 = 80 summoning Level 137 = 88 summoning Level 138 = 96 summoning ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Given this, what combat levels are going to become the new 100? 120? 124, 125, 126?

yeah, cause 40k chins = 99 hunter but 40k chins = 7m range exp at best and seeing as theres about 5 times as many rangers as hunters.. No. I'm going to have to disagree with you. I took a 2 level break from chinchompas and ended up with 47,160 at 99 hunter. Between 90-95 range I have consistently averaged 210 experience a chinchompa. This puts the exp at 8.4 million for 40k chins and 9.9m for my 47,160. If we go with a conservative of 200 exp per chinchompa and 45k chins per 99 hunter, we come with 9m range exp from every 99 hunter. Since hunter just came out late 2006 and the chin spot wasn't discovered until mid-january, and since the price has recently come down to 750 and less, is it really that surprising?

This is excellent, Nuke. These are all important issues, and some I feel are nagging things that have been coming up under my sub conscience that I couldn't identify. Your suggested changes are great for the most part, too. One thing I'd like to see for the "recycling" point is a place (possibly Warrior's guild?) for players to sell food and potions. With the removal of pking and the current unpopularity of bounty hunter, there needs to be a price floor for these items.

Reasons -Flowover from Jagex making range their favorite combat class and making crossbows the new rangewhip -Cheap bone bolts -Cheaper chins and an influx of 83/99 hunters -Cheap pots make it easier to use chins/higher level range training -Armadyl/bosses must be killed by range -Avianasies great range training/money -Bounty hunter/new updates give people at 97-98 range an opportunity/incentive to grab 99 -More time on holidays to play and get range goals -New 99 rangers are more likely to wear range cape Reasons why they'll become less people getting it every day/more rare -As new 99 rangers get other 99s they'll wear those capes -Speed of many range weapons has been lowered: these include crossbows, bone crossbows, chinchompas -Increasing/dropping prices make people unsure to buy items because they wait for the rock bottom price -New rangeable features such as bounty hunter, clan wars, mithril dragons, GWD, etc. become less popular and people don't get their range exp from monsterhunting

Keep it and sell it for massive prices when about 5 people have reached the required level. Or, if its only level 1, use it and get a huuuuge exp boost :