obfuscator

The reason it's guilty until proven innocent is that we've always understood to be certain things posted there to be illegal. Thus, our policy has always been to remove links to this certain thing. What has been brought up in this topic is that we may have been or are mistaken. So, we are checking with Jagex - and if their response indicates these scripts are acceptable it will likely be followed by a change to our rules.

And I posted a warning saying not talking of such applies to me as well after apologizing for derailing the topic. ----------------------- On topic: I guess my fear is that this is somewhat of a gateway to religious persecution, especially as it's being made into a religious issue when circumcisions are really more cultural.

[moderator hat] This discussion is about circumcision. Keep the abortion talk out of here, and that includes me too. [/moderator hat] edit: three abortion related posts deleted so far, just FYI, I realize most of you probably didn't see this post...

It holds weight for me - as I've already indicated that's not the case where I live. I never implied that all doctors find an abortion at 8 months is acceptable. Where I live, many do. Unfortunately, the truth is scandalous and inappropriate sometimes.

Figurative? There's nothing figurative about it - that's exactly what happens. I got off topic, because I see a certain hypocrisy coming from people who are so vehement that snipping off a little piece of skin is so wrong when they've no problem with taking a life. And once again, I looked at it from the Canadian perspective - I realize the US is not as ridiculously lax, so I apologize.

In the states. In canada they're legal up until birth. Although yes, I'm getting off topic.

Have to say my respect for you just dropped there. Ridiculous statement. Haircutting/nail clipping/hair dying is non permanent, so irrelevant to the purpose this discussion, nor are they medical procedures. Piercing and tattooing individuals without their consent is also considered illegal.[1][2] I merely answered your ridiculous statement with one of my own. Circumcision is neither truly permanent nor damaging, and is arguably a medical procedure. Baby in womb: 8 months, 30 days, 23 hours old - ripped to peices by vaccuum = coooooool Baby outside womb: 9 months old - flap of skin removed - NOT INFORMED CONSENT OMGOMGOMG

That's basically my feelings about it. While it's obviously terrible to use, if it's used when there's a reasonable chance of success, and its usage will save lives, it's ok.

It will have a direct affect on my child's ability to go to heaven. I'm not even sure if it is in any holy book. I've always thought of it as more cultural. There are indirect references in the old testament iirc. It is more cultural than anything.

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood your post. --------------------------------- Personally, I'm uncircumcised, I think the procedure is stupid and pointless, but there's nothing wrong with it. It's unfair to say people can't do it just because you don't like it.

So what you're saying is that performing a procedure that does no lasting harm at a point in life where the pain will be deliberately minimized should be criminalized....

Is torture, questionable success rate, torture is sometimes (unfortunately) necessary. Sums up my feelings on it.

Nail clipping, ear piercing, hair cutting, other piercings, hair dye, other cosmetic procedures. The list goes on and on...and circumcision does nothing wrong.

Simplify that a little please? He's saying this law is protecting the rights of vulnerable individuals who can't make decisions for themselves. His argument would hold a lot more water if abortion was illegal.

Ahh yes, a one minute old baby is aware of those rights, and can use them fully, correct?

But they do. Why does your preference come first? You have the choice to circumcise your own kid, they aren't trying to circumcise yours...

That's precisely why we're contacting the authority on the matter.

Interesting. I'm not really involved with the EP, but I know that with the clan chronicle, we accept guest articles...perhaps the EP would as well if you wanted to offer a different viewpoint?

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If you want to pull that card, why allow parents to make any body-related decisions for their children at all? They should be allowed to make positive body-related decisions to become healthy. A circumcision does not provide any health benefits and it's more of an accessory operation like plastic surgery. Parents are allowed to make decisions like plastic surgery for their kids.

If you want to pull that card, why allow parents to make any body-related decisions for their children at all? Oh for christ sake, circumcision is a choice that should be decided by the guy himself when he is old enough, not due to religious or whatever belief, unless it's a medical situation. This is my, so it seems, crazy viewpoint on this forum. Why? I asked you a question, you basically just answered "because".

If you want to pull that card, why allow parents to make any body-related decisions for their children at all?

I'm not. Increasingly I've seen the supposedly tolerant left decide to be intolerant when it comes to things like this.

What would this position do? We do have the editor position as the OP indicates, for proofreading and co-ordination.

The medical advantages are debatable. Really, I think it's more of a cultural thing than a procedure with actual medical benefit.