Erewhon2

Actually to me it does matter than anyone would 'want' to be a moderator on a virtual world as I stated on the previous page: So my particular view on this thread stands.....it is only about status. I should thank troacctid for this particular quote below, as it certainly reinforces everything I have been saying, in spite of it starting with; its about other than status. And randox goes on...... There is jealousy, aggravation, dislike, envy, inappropriate awe and 'idol worship', anger etc...directed at pmods, their presence also "hinders normal conversation" all of which is completely unacceptable and unnecessary for the reasons I have stated in my posts. Whatever someone did or didn't do to get there, they wanted to be a pmod and took it when it was offered knowing the reactions they would get. So why would anyone do that for something they had previously enjoyed to 'pass the time', a 'game'.....Purely for the status!

Interesting statement, so you play a different game when you wish for a 'challenge', you find RS too easy and too tedious as it is? Would you like RS to have all the 'tedium' removed and become a faster more intense game all over? In other words, turn it into a different game? :shame: As I said previously I like having the choice. If you and others find some skills too boring or tedious as they are, why on earth are you aiming for 99s in those skills??? Go play the game in the way that suits you, get 99s in combat skills, or forget 99s.....join a clan and play clan games, castle wars, mobilising armies, godwars, PvP, do quests....whatever! I cannot believe that some people have been posting on this thread complaining about the tedium of 'clicking' and comparing the times some skills take. So don't do it!!!!! Do something else :wall: I do not want things made easier, in any way, even including the supposed 'tedium' It is that simple =D>

And no pmod can be everywhere at once, if you happen to be in the right place at the right time, you may be able to 'mute' someone, what happens the rest of the time? Where I spend most of my time can get very busy, I very rarely see a pmod there. People can either put someone on 'ignore' or they can report them. Putting someone on ignore or muting them....ignoring them leaves the choice to the players and is not therefore 'patronising' in that the pmod apparently knows best. As for scams, they can be reported by any player. I might also add, that your phrasing of a ''normal'' player and "regularly encourage others" is questionable as it smacks of superiority. So yes this does fall under patronising and I have clearly given my reasons for eliminating the other answers.

fenrir321....I have to say I am disappointed with your post as the majority of it focuses on the rules and regulations of how you would like someone to debate with you. If people are rude or completely missing the point is one thing, but to spend most of the post setting out guidelines so someone is 'worthy' to debate with you is not comfortable or appropriate. So I am only picking up those elements that are relevant. Please see below: http://devblog.runescape.com/view_post. ... =20&page=1 I would also suggest you stop equating RS with RL, it isn't and never will be RL, it is a virtual world that is run by Jagex as a business and they play the role of 'The Almighty' here. I kept my last post very simple and to the point, yet both you and a_local_guy have failed to respond to the simple question. Please don't give me this patronising 'to help people' or: This is a game!!! As I said in my post which you have both ignored, anyone can help and I have always offered my help freely to those that asked. Why does it have to be a pmod? So therefore it is irrelevant whether you abuse the power or not, it is still about and purely for status.

Lets see if we can narrow this down, some interesting posts and some strong feelings. As you will have gathered I strongly feel that being a pmod is about status, whether in the old 'reporting' system or the new 'role model' system. So lets take out the 'reporting' bit and the new criteria, take out all the tantrums and tears. I would still challenge you....why do you want to be a pmod? To help people? This is a game! Anyone can help others, its not like going to see a social worker and you need an appointment to see the specialist, and there are good fan sites including this one as well as an excellent manual on the RS site itself. So I ask again.....why do you want to be a pmod? :shame: Earning a pmod crown or even wanting to be a pmod is all about status. My one concession is that the new role will at least provide some service however unnecessary it may be.

I think it is time to clarify some points for me as the originator of this thread. If I wanted constant and intense game stimulation, I would be playing WoW not RS. If I wanted something really easy I would be playing The Little Mermaid. What I do want is a game that offers choice, where I can unwind after work on what some are calling 'tedious' tasks, but I enjoy them because they relax me and they make some serious gp ;) A game where I can choose to go and do something harder or more challenging like a quest or skill development. My query about "how easy do you want it?" was aimed at those who are constantly complaining that things take too long, that are constantly seeking weapon improvements, shortcuts to 99 status and shortcuts through supposedly boring tasks. Well go play a different game then. I love RS and have played for a long time because it offers the choice. What I do NOT want to end up with is The Little Mermaid. I have no issue with improvements and updates providing there is good balance. New weapons that hit harder may be fine, if they are balanced with creative new combat abilities....therefore keeping the challenge. I enjoy the variety RS offers and I feel that this is where updates should be focused, rather than removing tedium and making the game easier.

I know you said you were playing DA but there is no way that reports give any evidence on which to base an assessment of quality.....clicking a button is all it is. There is nothing to indicate any benefit from the historical method of selecting pmods. As Est0rrath stated in an earlier post, reporting can be done by any player. Please note for evidence this post by cheeseater, on page 14 of this thread, clearly showing that reporting (however excessively) is done by clicking a button, nothing else. It also reiterates the worst case scenario of poor pmod behaviour. :thumbdown:

A debate is about questioning and challenging anothers opinion...arguing the point. This is probably the clearest statement you have yet made and it has taken a lot of pushing for you actually give a reasoned opinion on the topic heading. One of the issues I have is that you also demonstrate a very aggressive attitude to debating, in which case stay on the 'rants' where you spend most of your time. Though goodness knows why you do, when you're not even a full time player of rs. However the points you have made still appear to contradict these earlier statements by you. This is a quote from you earlier on in the debate For you it appears to be all about achieving the '99' as quickly as possible, these points from you certainly suggest you are looking for the easiest options. :shame:

This is the point I was trying to make when I spoke about ambiguity, for some they find it difficult to be honest and I think it is an excellent purpose of a debate to make people face up to that. For a number of people who have taken part in this thread, a little thought would go a long way, very few have actually been honest to themselves or the debate and have responded with dramatic denials and continually contradict themselves. :roll: What can I say? I think this is a well reasoned argument, admitedly it doesn't allow for any 'half measures' but if you are looking for absolutes then this is it! lol :thumbup:

Oooo....someone who wants to take the morale issue to a new level! Goody.....*rubs hands in glee* lol This does not have to relate to religion, but in the instance of considering morals, the standard is set by the perception of those who wish their individual status and personality to be defined by their response and behaviour to those standards. In the example of rs price manipulation, those morals differ from rl due to the anonyminity of game play. This does not take into account human nature, there are also many young (and not so young) players on rs who feel the need to 'belong', their best friend may be part of a price manipulation clan and they feel pressurised into taking an active part. Is it morally wrong when conducted under duress? Don't you think some people do not understand 'morals' and therefore shift their arguments and standpoint to suit their perception of what others want to hear? I think we have had some significant examples of this 'shifting' in this thread. Not everyone understands or can adhere to a moral high ground, even when it is just a game. I think this point you made is too limited. I more or less agree with point 3. In this example I would have to say that rs is not just an artificial society, but it is also an authoritarian one that is 'parented' by Jagex. Ultimately it has to be....it is a business and a game. Democracy of some sort maybe 'allowed' but please note it is at their discretion and is not a 'right'. Therefore I would argue that your point about 'common good' is irrelevant here, as the 'common good' is defined by Jagex themselves. So the 'good for all' example would fail to be realised as we are back to the first point around perceptions. :)

You really don't appear the understand this debate at all, We all know that things will be easier on an individual basis, certainly with skill development and general game progress and a few updates will smooth out some areas as you put it. The point of the debate is how easy do you want it? You seem to think that the all updates make just little 'tweaks' to the game, well that is not the case and others have given good examples of this. We are back to my golf analogy, you might want better clubs and a smoother green, but you wouldn't want the holes twice their size. #-o Why don't you just admit you want the game as easy as they can make it....then tell me why? I might then be able to debate you....but this????? :wall:

Yes but my point still stands, it is the ambiguity that creates the debate. I agree that there appears to be very little honesty and self reflection in some of the posts. But in my example where you callenged me to give a direct answer, it became a statement based on the facts and is no longer debatable (in my opinion lol). Unless you are going to argue the morality of the issue (back to grey). :roll: To say something is wrong and express strong feelings and principles about it, whilst continuing to promote and actively take part is definitely a contradiction of terms...as you say "glass houses". My challenge to you is do you think price manipulation it is right, or is it wrong? :

First of all, if you are going to insist on such finite definitions, may I just raise the point that you should be careful of double negatives in your phrasing, makes for very difficult reading...lol. OK re: the Jagex post that price manipulation by clans is frowned upon....but not against the rules, therefore in practice it is 'right' and I have no guilt in exploiting the rise and fall in prices when they occur. And now there is no debate :shame: However, once you bring principle into it, a 'grey' area becomes apparent and the exploitation and manipulation of prices by a few clans that can (and sometimes does) disadvantage so many, appears unfair and essentially wrong....so why do I still do it? Because it benefits me.... Now there is a debate! :thumbsup:

I think this is a good challenge, I can see where you are coming from, paricularly in relation to my own sweeping statement.... :roll: However to clarify; I may have a 'best interest' principle and would applaud game development that halted price manipulation, but until then my 'greed' (?) lol or wish for profit to buy my next batch of seeds etc will outweigh the strength of my concern over price manipulation clans. If Jagex decides that this is against the rules, then my resolve would strengthen and I would do all I could to support that. A possible analogy for this would be someone who borrows another person's computer software, they know in principle it may be wrong, but because it still profits or benefits them they go ahead and do it. Sometimes we can all appear a little hypocritical :? It appears as though I am somewhat 'sitting on the fence' and maybe I am, but until Jagex truly get off the fence I will continue to make myself comfortable on the said fence (someone get me a cushion? Think I'll be here for a while) ;)

I would also argue this point, other than getting a cape, and there is more to the game than aspiring to a cape, although accomplishing that is a good feeling. The purpose of skill development is to be able to achieve more, smith higher items, make higher level potions, use shortcuts, this improves the variety of the game and yes can make some parts of the game easier....but you have to work for it! Many quests provide costumes and some xp, and occasionally some weapons or tools that may be useful, but do not make things significantly easier. It is the unnecessary updates by Jagex that significantly 'downskill' the game that is an issue for me and the point of this debate.

I have to say that is doesn't matter how you put it, the issues still stand with regard to your unacceptable attitude to being a pmod. A lot of the answers I have given in response to your statements are just common sense, but you are continuing in your attempts to justify why it is 'ok' to be a poor pmod. So lets try this again...... We all have to deal with this, whats the problem with it? It's not your fault they haven't been playing for months, people expect to be deleted. or if you don't wish to delete them, delete someone else. Yes it is your job, you do not have to be a portable knowledge base, but being patient and responsive is not too much to ask. See above..... So have we all, nothing new there. My best effort, was 4 friends chatting, 1 cc and 3 public chats at once, quite proud of that one lol. So get real, its how rs is. You didn't read the post from jrhairychest properly This goes back to my point at the beginning of this post, as an anology, this is like defending your right to drink even though it makes you violent. You don't have the right to defend a poor attitude when you are expected to be responsible and a role model for other players. There are other examples in this thread, including a video of some appalling behaviour from a pmod, who reported every single person that spoke. Of course you're not....... Can you see it yet? I am starting to feel a little repetative, my responses are as a player of rs who had/has certain expectations of pmods. I am disappointed that you cannot see the obvious and continue to argue the case for the right to be an 'ordinary and anonymous' player....so I ask again, why be a pmod?

Well as you are aware from my previous post with a direct quote from Jagex, reporting was clearly stated as being the 'encouraged role' of pmods, so thats not no much an opinion as a carefully drawn conclusion. However that aside, everything in my post still stands as it is your own words I have used and that is now providing undeniable evidence that previous pmods served no useful purpose, on top of those examples given by others, therefore achieving that role or wanting it, was all about status. I also should point out that those other debators have expressed equally strong opinions in support of the key theme of this thread.

What can I say? Perfectly summed up, and a clear opinion... =D>

I am astounded! Do you realise what you have actually said? -You have stated you don't like strangers adding you - so switch to friends chat #-o -You don't like questions being asked that you think Jagex can answer - so direct people to the right place! -You don't like questions being asked on the spot - well you should try being more knowledgeable or direct players to where the answer may be found -You don't like talking to more than one person at a time - is this because you find it difficult? or that you only like speaking to certain people? -You prefer the old 'reporting' role, because that is what you're used to! - So much for Darwin's theory of evolution, we've just regressed to neanderthal man Wow!!! The only positive here is that you are being honest. So why on earth are you a pmod? The only undeniable thing left is status, yet you wish to hide the crown because of the above reasons. That would mean surreptitious reporting and that is completely unacceptable :shame: I would say that you have nicely summarised the entire argument for why players have issues with pmods, this is clear evidence for jrhairychest's argument against the previous pmod role! =D>

Well this is the difficulty, the way I see it....if pmods are to take on a much broader role, to be 'leaders of the rs community' if you like, then people need to know who they are. To ask advice, get support, maybe even to be part of organising an event. Now this isn't necessarily for me, I'm quite happy looking information up and am not interested in clan activities. However I can see the need in that instance for some form of identification. With regard to my earlier post, I do however take umbrage at those previous pmods having a crown when their role was no different to what any player could do, as you stated previously. Hence my query, and I would like a_local_guy to respond as he would like to hide the crown, which I think is highly questionable.

I would like you to at least elaborate on your statement in response to the points I raise regarding status and the 'crown' symbol, even if you are unwilling to respond to other debate issues raised by the author of this thread.

Oh good grief! Who is talking about disavantaging? This is a game! Even in real life you wouldn't play golf blindfolded, that would be a disadvantage, but neither would you enlarge the holes by twice their size, that would make the game too easy. Do you understand the difference? :wall: What a completely ridiculous statement! I became a member as a natural result of 'trying the game out' as a f2p and deciding I wished for more variety and to explore further (I was continually frustrated by not being able to get the other side of Falador lol), it actually had nothing at all to do with skills. I know that probably upsets some people that I can enjoy this game without considering heirarchies, ranking or playing the way others think is 'correct'. :o I do not deny that an easy task is nice now and again...of course it is! But you are still not answering the thread question of how easy do you want it? Are you saying that updates are making it harder or easier? Go away and read the rules of the debate forum and come back when you have something to say #-o You have purposely misinterpreted jrhairychest's post, which offers a sarcastic (or is it? I really don't know with some of those who are posting here, lmao!) 'extreme' of making the game easier....if you disagree, you tell me.....where does it stop? I reiterate his points that this is just one element of a number of updates that have made skill development and the game in general easier, particularly for younger members and that the ectophial update for example, was completely pointless and unnecessary .

I will say that while I generally am uncomfortable with real price manipulation on rs by clans, I will and do take advantage of raised prices. Jagex have not made it against the rules but do frown on it...... "I see merchanting clans as pyramid selling schemes, where, typically, only a handful of players actually make any money and everyone else loses money - just like real-life pyramid schemes. Because of this, we are not in favour of them in RuneScape, and try to warn players not to participate in them." Quote from Mark Gerhad CEO of Jagex. I think the above point clarifies the Jagex standpoint. I would not object to the cessation of this kind of game play, but will probably continue to take advantage of it while it is there as I am sure most people do. ;)

One of my points was weighing up 'slightlier easier over significantly easier', but not necessarily speedier. Although I have to say that noted crops make farming significantly easier, this will never be a fast skill due to the waiting times, so your point doesn't have any validity here. Having said that I also feel that Pyramid Plunder is an example that disputes your point about Jagex balancing skill development. Anyone on the 'fast track to a 99 thieving cape knows that PP will enable them to achieve this quickly and easily (if mind numbingly boring), and much faster than any other method. This point is extremely pertinent and is one of my concerns, where does it stop? and as my original title for this thread says....."how easy do you want it?". I applaud those people who play the game the way they wish to for 'variety' and 'fun' rather than aggressive skill development =D>

There are two things here....firstly getting a role of pmod through reporting is dreadful, for what it is and when it is achieved through nought but button clicking. And for those personalities, hiding the crown is likely to be devastating as it removes any recognition of status. Second, what would be the point in hiding the crown? And those pmods that say they would like to hide the crown are indicating they would prefer a 'hidden' role of reporting????? Now that is really stinky! And if those pmods are trying to say they already act to the new role, then they would keep the crown surely. Hmmmm.....some interesting contradictions here. :^o In the new model of pmods, I would hope they would be there to advise and offer support, so there would be no point in hiding the crown. Although with respect to some of Est0rrath's comments, any experienced player could fulfil those kind of roles (including reporting). But a recognised personality would be and should be immediately accessible to any player. :pray: