Erewhon2

Are you for real???? First: listen to those offering common sense. Second: don't beg, it's just so cringeworthy (doesn't matter how it is spelt, we know what you mean) Third: RS has the means to make your money back, depending how you do it, it may take a while. That shouldn't matter, it's all about the game anyway. Fourth: Most people have been the victim of a scam in some form or other at some point. Get over it :roll:

I'm not sure I understand the point you are making here :huh: I understand that my opinion is just that, but I believe that you have missed the point I was making. I said "I have no problem with this happening in its various forms using the tools that are in game and appropriate to RS and its presentation." All of the activities you have identified are 'fantasy' and appropriate to the gameplay and style, my point was teaching inappropriate real life activities. I was not generalising but just picking up on one particular issue that was being debated and I still stand by that.

I have been following this thread with interest and finally decided to contribute to the debate going on. People are always looking for an easy win, and often its only experience that tells them there is very rarely any such thing, so you won't stop player being scammed even if its only for 500gp. Take the example of all those hacked accounts by players that used bots previously, that was priceless! With respect to the flower game, this kind of randomised betting has been going on since the beginning of time, and if there is any random element that someone can make a game of they will do, particularly if profit is to made albeit not real. I have no problem with this happening in its various forms using the tools that are in game and appropriate to RS and its presentation. Picking up on the issue of gambling in the form of 'poker'; this wouldn't seem appropriate to the game in any way and I think Jrhairychest made a valid point with his comment about teaching the techniques of playing poker in RS which would appear to promote and justify the concept of commercialised RL gambling. And lets be honest; winning itself is so addictive or the idea of winning. I think that the fantasy and creative games conducted with abstract 'in game' tools is fine, but don't bring RL into RS gameplay! @Bladewing, its rather worrying when people cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality :unsure:

Firstly don't make references that only you understand, what on earth is a "straw man"? As for the quotes, are you saying they were 'off topic'? They appeared to have a lot of relevance to the arguement you are maintaining (I won't dignify your responses by calling them part of a debate). As for providing me with a tip, no thank you, I'm as likely to take advice from you as I would Nick Leeson on financial advice, and I would suggest Racheya takes the same stance. :grin: As for you last point, I reiterate....take a reality check!

Well that explains a lot, after all politicians are well known for slinging mud at their percieved adversaries. And from the other perspective I've not seen you arguing both sides either. Everyone has a preconcieved bias and natural prejudice, usually directed by their upbringing and life experiences. It takes a strong personality and maturity to stand back and be truly objective, not something that I have seen evidenced by your posts in any way. Is this an attempt to justify your arrogant and offensive attitude? I have no idea who Racheya is, other than a member of the Tip.it team, however I will not stand back and watch behaviour of this nature that is completely out of preportion to the circumstances. What do I, or others need to evidence? That the article was great? That I agree with everything she put in there? Actually the article was fine for a friendly and fun site to put forward about a game. Your evidence is bias towards expectations way beyond was was needed or required. As has previously been stated by others, this is not an article in the Financial Times or Guardian. In my opinion you (and others) need to have a serious reality check.

Really Stonewall, get over yourself, this is a 'fun' forum, run by volunteers. Quit treating their treatment of you as though it meant the end of your lifelong career and ambitions...honestly! I have seen few balanced perspectives, there has been little constructive, positive or creative criticism and that is disappointing. As I said previously I would expect a personal view from any writer of an article, it's certainly not anything strong enough to ignite such behaviour as has been demonstrated on this thread. Somehow I doubt that, and that was a while ago lol :grin:

If you apply for a job and don't get shortlisted, very rarely are you contacted. I would think that the number of people asking for recognition by the Tip.it team would be overwhelming, I certainly would not necessarily expect a response for a request like that, why should you? :huh: If you and Stonewall were editors with your insulting and demeaning attitude it is unlikely I would read your article in the first place. People have already stated on here that the article was not an indication of everyone, but a perspective drawn from those Racheya spoke to.

I'm sorry I couldn't resist doing the corrections when the posts from this author have displayed such arrogance about his ability and right to criticise and such a desperate need to be recognised by the Tip.it team (nearly every post for the last 2 pages is practically begging the team to take him on as an editor). Personally, I have no issues with Racheya or her article, I appreciate personal perspectives...it gives something to debate and discuss.

I have never used RS Wiki before now, I started with Sal's Realm until I discovered Tip.it. I have used Rune HQ, but it's a pain to load up if your PC is even a little bit slow. Having seen it mentioned on here I went to have a look at RS Wiki and yes I have to say it does have a lot of useful information, I like the table on RS abbreviations....very good. The forum there is not very active but they have some excellent forum rules that may be of use to Tip.it, particularly the direct quote below, which is item 4 under the 'Threads' heading: So generally complaining and making demands about RS as a free game vs what p2p get, is not allowed. I personally was delighted to see this included in a forum for RS and I think Tip.it should follow suit. :thumbup:

I have not seen an untrimmed summoning or slayer cape, most common is probably cooking or fletching. My first cape was agility and while not rare, it was fairly uncommon. I loved having it untrimmed because I liked the look of it lol. Those people who have been mentioned with untrimmed capes that are a major task to achieve as a first 99, have obviously done it with that sole intention....good for them, (so much better than gunning for the easiest cape possible purely to have one). :thumbsup:

One of the things I continually find interesting about attitudes in RS is this compulsive need to do everything and gain everything at top speed. I have 87 mill in the bank and a few nice items, I took forever to accumulate this amount and it doesn't worry me in the slightest. Its not a real economy so if I want something I will go and buy it and gradually make the money back (or not lol). Construction is a money sink, but so worthwhile, I do not know how I coped without my portals before, and the altar room right next to them and my bank could not possibly hold all my stuff in the costume room.....sounds like my wardrobe in RL lol. I think its really all about choice, most things balance out in the end, and certainly romu000 has a valid point about raw materials, sometimes they are even more expensive than the finished product, ranarr being a fine example of that.

I haven't joined an alliance yet, I suppose I am still deciding if I will remain playing WoL, I am enjoying the building though lol. This is home........ :grin: By null at 2010-02-03[/img]

@Gidion, I find your comments offensive, disrespectful and discriminatory, with very little understanding of how many people struggle financially in the western world and as for your comments about developing countries, how insensitive can you be? Quelmotz....don't pass out! I'm totally in agreement with you here. Let me add, that the whole point of a 'game' is to take pleasure from playing it not by cheating! Most people give up looking for cheats or 'quick wins' on a game by the time they reach adulthood or earlier and remember that the enjoyment comes from self achievement and playing and as Quelmotz said; using your initiative. Otherwise whats the point?

This doesn't really give your opinion, no one is declaring that all Pmods are terrible people, nor that they are all saintly. The point is whether the whole concept of Pmods and those seeking the little silver crown is about status or purpose. My opinion on this is quite clearly expressed in this thread, you stated that when you first started you wanted the crown because you recognised it as 'status'. So are you saying Pmods are about status? I have a poor opinion of any player being placed over another for the purpose of reporting, however the new selection process gives a new direction for Pmods that is somewhat more acceptable, although I disagree with the whole concept of 'in game' player moderators.

Just to finally clarify on this topic.... Jagex rules state: I don't think you can get much clearer than that :thumbup:

Think this is a world first for the record books but I agree with Quelmotz on this issue. We'd be back to square one again with RWT. This is a first too, I actually agree with Jr here. Though we wouldn't exactly be back at square one, Jagex would handle transactions. The economy would go to [cabbage] however. Hey people.......don't pass out......I agree with you too lol. :thumbsup: There has been so much effort by Jagex to get rid of the threats RWT brought to the game, it should not be considered in any size shape or form

Firstly in response to sonic3190's post: I would like to point out that I have not had any posts 'deleted' no idea why you would think that. Also I may have varied my debate a little but I have remained on topic with regard to disagreeing to the KBD being moved to F2P, for all the reasons stated previously. Not that anyone else ever goes 'off topic' :huh: The solution to pay $5 a month isn't a "solution", because it doesn't address the OP's concerns: 1. The dragon med is a worthless drop. 2. The KBD, Giant Mole are outdated monsters, partly because of valueless "rare" drops, and partly because newer armour makes them no challenge. 3. F2P doesn't have a boss monster, so F2Pers can't relate to P2P boss hunting, nor can they utilize lootshare worlds. Paying $5 a month so that I can join members only to ignore outdated monsters doesn't solve any of these. Developing a completely new boss monster solely for F2P would be costly, and wouldn't fix the fact that the dragon med is worthless, nor would it fix the fact that there are perfectly good monsters already developed in F2P areas that aren't being used because they're no challenge. If you read the OP, you'd understand that, and we wouldn't be calling you a troll. You'd also have saved a lot of thread space and time. It seems no one here has a problem with that. I don't mind the fact that trimmed and god armour are only obtainable on P2P, and cost much much more than rune armour because of F2P. What Jagex needs to do is create more demand for the dragon med. The easiest way to do that is to add another few million people to buy it. Off topic: I found this handy feature under My Settings, Profile, Manage Ignored Users. You get the idea. I would point out again that I think the KBD is still a worthwhile monster and just because a few think otherwise doesn't mean it is worthless. And as has been said, some of the P2P players who are for this appear to have dubious reasons that are purely self motivated rather than benefiting either community. I do wish to ask why there is such resistance to becoming a member and getting all the benefits that come with it (I agree with Demonicsushi on this one), I thoroughly enjoyed F2P when I first discovered RS, but eventually became frustrated at the limitations and so became a member...end of story. I think these issues have become a lot more complex than they need to be, if Jagex wants to develop something for F2P thats up to them, and whatever the expense, they have done so before. But it should be separate from passing stuff to F2P because some P2P players don't find it challenging enough but have not considered the long term implications. @Langer....by the way I'm female lol!

Let me rephrase that for you - Because the idea to benefit members also benefits f2pers in a negligible way, I'm against it. If they want our outdated worthless content, they should pay $5.95 a month too, so that they too can ignore it and use the better updated content. And other P2P's on this thread have also argued for KBD and 'outdated' monsters or items could or should be given to F2P; and I say no, so what point am I missing? Most of the 'outdated' items and monsters are only outdated for those who have surpassed them in skills or combat, I have yet to do the KBD so for me he is novel and a challenge and yet to be overcome. Those people who want to get rid of them because they personally don't want or use them anymore, should consider other players. And not hand over membership items to F2P because it suits them. That works both ways, P2P shouldn't give membership items away and F2P shouldn't ask for them.

I genuinely believe Jagex are moving in the right direction with the quest cape, in fact I would love it if they introduced a cape or reward that was so high level it could take me years to get there! What an objective lol! And the unbelievable respect a cape like that would command...well..... But to keep the quest cape a specialist item means keeping it as a single status reward and not diluting it into 'levels'. Some of the points sanno7 has made below cover this in his first paragraph. What I do think it s good idea is giving variety, the quest cape gives variety to a high level achievement. The diaries are the same, but there have been many updates creating an easier life for newer/lower level players and only recently have Jagex begun updates for higher level players. All players can achieve rewards and capes at any level, it just takes time and patience, if players want a reward or cape with 'kudos' then obviously they have to put the effort in. For some people its not even about the rewards other than developing their individual skill levels. In summary; high level achievements should not be gained easily and there are alternative capes and rewards for those with low level skills, I still remember my excitment when I got my first obby cape :rolleyes:

I am happy with F2P runescape as it is. If I wasn't happy, I would be playing some other game. I choose to play runescape as a F2Per not because I can't afford P2P, not because I enjoy having whiny members flaming me because I don't pay, not because I want to freeload, but because I enjoy a challenge and I enjoy the effort I've put into my account. It's something you as a member could hardly understand. You all b**** and moan about how expensive construction, summoning are, how slow slayer, runecrafting and mining are. F2P is 10x more difficult than P2P, in the time that it takes and the effort we put into it. When you complain, you somehow feel justified because you're chipping into jagex's pot, making contributions. When we complain, you like to tell us to shut up and pay. Sometimes the things we ask for are pretty reasonable. For instance, I've been an advocate of improving the combat triangle, because its in a laughable state right now. I want runescape as a whole to be improved, and not in an us versus them kind of fashion. Things that are broken need to be fixed, things that would improve the game as a whole should be implemented. I'm going to say this again: This thread is not about me, or any other individual F2Per. I would appreciate it if your posts were not directed specifically at me. My arguments are directed at all those requesting more on top of their free game, do not assume it's all about you. I am just responding to the points you have raised, I have no idea why my counter arguments would "try your patience" this is a debate, you're making points about giving over members stuff to F2P and I'm arguing against it. And I believe the point was made that we have all been F2P players, so give over with the 'holier than thou' attitude and see the debate for what it is. Oh and by the way.....do you see me complaining about expensive or slow RS is? No. And I reiterate, enjoy what you've got and be grateful, if you don't like it find an alternative or become a member....simple! You have missed the whole point of what I was debating! You (and others) are asking for additions that are not technical updates and natural evolution of F2P, but are items/mosters etc that belong in the P2P worlds, I was arguing the point that the F2P game is a great game for free and nowhere else would you get as much without having to pay something. Members pay for members items/monsters however they are (or are not) used and at no point should KBD and Dragon Med be made F2P ever. If Jagex want to do specific developments for F2P like the Lumridge achievement diary, thats up to them and is still a huge concession to a free game, but not to hand over purely members stuff. @Sonic3190 I would appreciate you defining what you mean by 'trolling' as you have the audacity to accuse me of it; please be clear and give an example, because obviously I appear to have a different understanding to what you do, I await your reply. Again my point about members items stands, no D meds for F2P. Absolutely! :thumbsup:

I completely and utterly disagree on all points. Why on earth does it give a sense of pride? Playing the game and skilling up is one thing, but one player being placed over another in a virtual heirarchy is wrong. Ok the new guidelines for recruitment have a little more respect from me than the old 'reporting' method. But I still question someones need to be a pmod within a game. As for the "assloads" of respect, most pmods I have seen and who have posted on here, do not like the groupie attention they receive and in many cases are the butt of abuse. The only difference I have seen to conversations with a pmod around is that the chat gets hijacked. Your fawning attitude towards pmods is exactly the kind of thing I have issue with, a pmod is just another player who pays their monthly fees like anyone else; they are not the police, they are not a demigod, they may occasionaly be good for advice, but no more than any other experienced player and often have less knowledge than that other player. As I said previously, why on earth Jagex chose to give pmods a crown as their symbol is beyond me!

Probably her avatar and the fiesty debating style she has. Its a bit...fwoar! Ok, that made me laugh so hard that my mom thought I was having a heart attack... Still though, no one thought that they were making the Achievement diaries to easy when those are broken into levels... Did they? Erm........*cough* thank you.......I think, and Jrhairychest, you call me feisty?????? Lol :blink: I have to say your comparison with achievement diaries is irrelevant, they are entirely separate. Achievement diaries are clearly set out in stages of easy, medium and hard tasks (and 'elite') and only one provides a cape., they are a different way of enjoying the game. The quest cape is a single overall achievement, the same as a 99 skill cape, although with the new quest I am wary of even that comparison lol. As for your point about it taking 6 months to prepare, thats great! It would be dreadful to max out on all skills and achievements within 6 months of playing rs, now there is an opportunity for higher level players to have something new and novel to achieve. All of rs is designed so every player can play in the way that best suits them, this means that some may choose to never go for quests, as you have chosen. It appears that as soon as something comes out that is hard or takes a long time to achieve people complain, because they want it and want it now.......do I sense toys being thrown out of a pram here? Allow something for other players and stop asking for everything to be easy, or breaking down the quality of something. The quest cape is gradually being seen as one of the biggest chievements for a player and if poeple want to show off, thats fine...it is only a game, showing off is allowed :thumbsup: Having 'sub-category' quest capes would not work and is a backward step, players would only ever admire the final cape, there are skill capes if people really want a cape and don't have the levels or confidence to get the quest cape.

You obviously have not thought out your statements above, "it just takes time and effort" applies to achieving any 99 skill cape! The point is; 99 should be hard to achieve, it is senseless for new players to be able to get the highest level in a skill quickly (although of course cooking, fletching etc are the usual ones). As for if people knew how easy herblore was, it would change the price of pots.....do you think people don't know how to do herblore? Of course its easy, but people play the game the way they want to (mostly), as for making money on RS that is easy to....but guess what? All it takes is time and effort, now there's a surprise! Please don't treat people like they are idiots, there is hardly anything secret about making money, if you can be bothered. And don't patronise posters on this thread, it's the next best thing to 'flaming'. I know I am entitled to my opinion, remember this is a 'debate' forum, as you are entitled to yours and I respect opinions that are well thought out and considered. I like the idea that the quest cape will only be accessible to long term, high skilled players, it is only right that some things become harder and harder to achieve, it gives more motivation and incentive (except for people like yourself who want everything so easy), please note I did post a thread a while back asking "How easy do you want it" and you are a classic example of the kind of player I had issue with. The new quest cape is for high level dedicated players and I am delighted that Jagex have done some hard updates for those players. Some people will never achieve it (possibly I may be one of them) but so what? If I want to I can work towards it and I think I will eventually. You may be trained in logic (who goes around posting something like that on a thread? weird!)....it doesn't necessarily make you good at it, and somewhere you appear to have lost common sense. If there is nothing left once a player has achieved 99 in most skills how disappointing that would be, I think it is entirely selfish for players to object to updates that are harder to achieve and need high level skills.

The game has moved on too far to remove the GE and the GE has become inbedded in the game itself. There are now many players who never even knew RS before the GE. I do find the GE convenient, I have always been rubbish at trading and I am able to earn good money using the GE to sell my wares now. Having said that, I do miss the smaller trading communities, I never went to the trading worlds unless I was after a large stock of something. But one of my most common hanging out areas was Seers Bank, it used to always be crowded with loads going on. Since the GE, that player evolved community has died and that is a shame.

I am delighted with the quest cape, it was something that I was ultimately aiming for as I enjoy the quests. Having said that it will be a long time before I gain the confidence to attempt the most recent quest (I was about to embark on 'While Guthix Sleeps' lol). To me that is a good thing, it will be hard, challenging and take serious preparation, well for me it will :rolleyes: The purpose of any cape is to get it as a reward for achievement, gaining the ultimate goal in an individual skill or in dedication to quests. The harder it is to get, the greater the goal, the longer the gameplay in developing your character, and therefore the more fun. As for the comment below: Although I agree the firecape takes some achieving the rest of this post is absolutely ridiculous! It negates the whole purpose of a cape, and I am sure the lower level capes would just be disregarded as unworthy by most players, no new players should be able to achieve a skill cape, thats the point, you build up to it through development of your character. As for quick chat, I never use it. If someone asks me my level in a skill I tell them, if they choose to disbelieve me, well that's their problem not mine....I certainly don't have anything to prove, I play for the enjoyment I get out of RS and the pleasure in achieving my levels at my pace, in the manner of my choosing and one day (in about 10 years) I may even get a the quest cape :-?