Erewhon2

Oh dear.....here we go again, please see my point below: :wall: And Jrhairychest's point...... And finally, yes there may be moral 'grey' issues about right and wrong, but essentially if it not against the rules, then it is allowed.

No I disagree with your definition, it has no relevance as to what level your skills are, the dictionary definition of easier is: so making things easier also includes reducing what others class as 'tedious' or 'boring' tasks. I'm not saying I don't take advantage of noting crops for example, of course I do. But the question is....where does it stop? Why reduce the supposed 'tedium'? There are other ways to get thrills, you don't have to do boring skills unless you want to (and here is usually where we start touching on the thread about skill capes). I do think this is a good example of where there has at least been some attempt to balance out the game. Depends what part of the game it is, some things become faster because of skill development, for example do you remember when you first stated lighting fires? It took ages to light even one pile of logs lol. Certainly xp can become faster as you work up the levels, if you choose to play it that way. But I struggle with understanding the need for the constant 'shortcuts', will we one day end up being able to fletch or smith from noted materials? Just because it is 'tedious'? :shock: What is 'trolling'? And is this directed at both quelmotz and Jrhairychest?

Yes you are mostly right, although it's not so much about why they are needed in the game, more about establishing the 'status' vs 'purpose' element, hence the broken record bit, and considering the debate I did think a_local_guy's typo was funny...and for the record I don't 'flame', I'm just trying to get someone to directly answer the question that I raised on page 22 of this debate....see below: :wall: Personally I thought it was clear, but I get references to tools, use of muting and helping people, all of which do not answer the question....why do it?

I'm starting to feel a bit like a broken record.....I still do not understand why someone wants to be a pmod, when it is for a game, supposed leisure time. A fight can/could be stopped by anyone, I have seen instances where the appearance of a 'crown' in the bank has started the argument! I couldn't resist pointing out this rather freudian slip either....lmao! Says it all really =D>

But this is the entire point I'm making....this isn't real life, it is a game people do for leisure, so why be a pmod? Joining the police force is a job. :wall: I completely agree with langer :thumbsup: I would say that for many people joining the police is very much about status and I have known and worked with a lot of police. I also would add that equating the 'police' with pmod status is treading on dangerous ground and smacks of players wanting to bumsnuggle up to Jagex in the misplaced belief it gives them some authority, 'plastic policemen' is the last thing needed on rs. :shame: As has been stated on a number of occasions (and evidenced in one of Jrhairychests posts), it has been Jagex's programming that has dealt the biggest blow to the bots and RWT elements of rs, not the pmods.

Hmmm.... When they decided they would stop people smoking in a bar, it was still legal (withing the rules) until they actually changed the law. A bar could not be prosecuted until that law was passed. Therefore, if there is no rule against it, it is still 'legal' (within the rules) no matter how much it is frowned on, until that said 'rule' is stated. Having said that, Jagex are not intending to make it against the rules, they are working on preventing it happening in the first place. Alternatively you come back to personal opinion about the moralities of 'right' and wrong'. But technically it is not 'wrong' to manipulate prices at this point in time.

Well thats part of a debate isn't it? lol. Your justifications or reasons do not make sense to me, I am trying to pin you down to something that does. I don't expect you to make something up, I do expect you to take the issues I raise seriously, even though they may cause some genuine self reflection. I actually thought we were getting here at this point. Then you moved on and started talking about the tools of a pmod being the reason, this meant that you had now not answered my question. :wall: But you still haven't answered....Why? Why do it? I said this..... And you still haven't answered that :shame:

I cannot find a single thing that says it is against the rules.

But you keep coming back lol. I have not cited you as 'spamming' :-s To be honest I could say the same sentence directed at your posts. :wall: a_local_guy...... I think Jrhairychest has made some very well thought out and intelligent points in his posts, backed by statements from Jagex and by other opinions and evidence, and he has been clear and concise, but responses have been vague, woolly, evasive and defensive. I'm not going to quote loads of what you said, but I will summarise how it comes across..... It appears that you feel the need to "help people", even though this is supposedly your leisure time and a game (a point that I have made on a number of occasions to you and others). However you are not prepared to just support other players as anyone can, you need to do this in an 'official' and 'recognised' capacity....Why??? Considering some of the incredibly negative things you have said about the way players respond to pmods, why do you choose to do this within a game? To what purpose? I really feel that you have not answered this fundamental question, nor looked at yourself and your motives with any real insight, try doing that...honestly and openly. To me it seems obvious, the need to have a sense of an identified role, justifying a self important 'moral standing' in a virtual world is fulfilling some gap in your life (obviously I don't wish to delve into any personal matters). Now this may be important for you, if this helps you maintain some equilibrium then so be it, but please don't cover it up with lame justifications that have no meaning. :shame:

I really don't understand this metaphor, if the rules are broken it should be dealt with or are you saying it shouldn't? Or are you saying something isn't against the rules, but it appears it is? :-s

I thought that was an excellent link and very topical and interesting. :thumbup: And a merchant is a person who buys and sells commodities for profit; a dealer or trader. Which is also what a price manipulator does, the difference is possibly related to the extensive scale, but in the end its all about profit, a dealer or trader is still hoping to push the prices up before they sell and buy low. It's clearly not against the rules and is not of "major concern" to Jagex, however they are going to try and prevent it happening. Exactly! :thumbup:

Considering I said nothing of the sort...that is a rather sweeping statement! =; What I did do was comment on your mining stats when you used that an example of your experience, nothing detrimental was intended, but you certainly seem overly sensitive about your levels. My reason for commenting at all, was the same as if I asked a weight lifter if hefting 60 kilo's was getting any easier, when all he had ever lifted was 20 kilo's. No way could he give me an informed answer, he would only be able to tell me his limited experience. Low stats are nothing to be embarrassed over or sensitive about, we've all had them! #-o Where? Tell me what they have put in so far to balance out new weapons, pyramid plunder...etc, etc. These are reasonable ideas, but don't vary the everyday experience of the game, this is where I would like to see some stronger challenges to balance those updates that make the game easier and less of the unnecessary updates that remove supposed 'tedium'. No idea what you're going on about :-s

LOL!!! The master of the 'one liner'......absolutely! :thumbup: Do we know why they were actually introduced? :-s

At last!!! An intelligent man \ Someone who understands what I meant in my postings! :D With regard to the combat potential, imagine if you were someone who chose to wear the agility outfit (only obtained from the high level courses) for combat, wear this with the boots of lightness and the spottier cape. How fast would you move in combat? Armour stats themself could be linked directly to the stats of the wearer....this is already achieved to a certain degree by the levels required to wear or wield. For example the weapon may be more effective than the armour if someone has high attack levels but are low in other cb stats. Updates clearly do not have to make things easier, or at the least, they could balance things. It doesn't just have to be combat either, for example; there could be a new herb, it may provide a good enhancement but can only be planted in a farming patch where you have completed the local achievement diary. :-k

Unfortunately this is true, due to the 'anonymous' nature of the game, many people's morals and boundaries do slip, and for some it is an outlet for rudeness and insulting behaviour. However the game is set up to deal with this, using the different 'chat' mechanisms and the ignore option as well as using different worlds to suit yourself. Jagex itself is the overall authority and lays down quite comprehensive guidelines for acceptable game play and if someone is breaking those rules, any player can report them. I would say that yes many people do need a leader in real life and this is reflected in rs, however that is what the clan set up achieves, for those that wish to 'belong' to a group and have leaders, deputies, whatever. That way it is kept within its own social circle without impacting on others who do not want 'leadership'. Personally I am quite happy to put those who spam on my 'ignore' list and I have done so on a number of occasions. The new model of Pmods has much more going for it than the old style and I can cope with them having a role (however unnecessary I feel it is). The old style Pmod, was most definitely not a leader, (this is a generalisation, there may have been one or two, but I have never seen nor heard of them). I have been known to actually leave the vicinity if a Pmod has shown up rather than be around all that revolting 'fawning' and then seeing those Pmods gathering their groupies around them like a comfort blanket and presenting an arrogance and superior attitude thats quite galls.

Quelmotz....you can hardly deny you are a little tense, and yes it was funny. You accuse me of making personal comments, all I have done is given you a well deserved but gentle slap on the wrist when you have indiscriminately thrown your toys on the floor. Lets see now, here is a list of just some of your comments in this thread alone and they are even worse in other threads! :shame: So give over with the "you're getting personal" I hardly think you are in a position to make a stand on that point do you? :shock: As for the topic of this thread, I really think you would benefit from actually reading the posts properly rather than just the ones you like. :thumbdown: For example you say this: I put this as my post on page 5: Please note I am asking for balance, I don't want the tedium removed, but if they do update things like this they need to also put in challenges to provide balance. Now, try reading my posts, I am happy to explain them to you, but you need to ask (and nicely) if you wish for me to explain in more detail or in a less complex way. :notalk:

LOL!!!!!! Hmmm....where to start? I think there are so many opportunities to use the skill development and the capes to enhance the game and provide interesting and challenging variety to something like combat. I think 'dodging' could be introduced more specifically, especially when using particular armour and weapons, for example if you wore rogue armour and used a dagger, you would dodge a lot more hits and may be faster with less weight. Those wearing heavy armour and with 2H swords would hit harder, but the duel could be evenly matched. It doesn't have to be 'class' related as in other games. If you wanted to introduce capes, these would enhance the skills they reflect during combat, like strength and heavy armour, thieving or agility and rogue armour etc....Just a few ideas :-k

This is what I am talking about regarding people not reading others posts, please note my post from page 22 below, this explains my responses to you. This does not fit with Jagex's standing on the matter..... There is evidence from a number of people or examples, but the key part is obviously from the business itself, which is why it keeps getting repeated. Even you said it was evidence... and of course once that blog took place, as you say...the evidence was now there, instead of relying on experiential evidence and examples. Anyone can ask and I do think this smacks of a patronising attitude (see my quoted post above), after all...how hard can it be? It's a big red button at the bottom! lol..... Yes I agree, this supports my post regarding the likelihood that pmods only had an insignificant role in the removal of bots and RWT. Ignoring posts that you don't wish to respond to, is not usually how a debate works, so I have included it in the top of this post. Not one person has mentioned any advantages! I have no idea where this comes from????? The point of this thread is that it is all about purpose or status, I personally do not see being a pmod as having any advantages at all! Thats why I don't understand why someone would want to do it...other than for the perceived status.

I had a look at the link you provided and it also says...... So this method did little to resolve the issues and did not 'deal with it', Andrew goes on to say...... The result of which was the changes in the wildy and the development of the GE, programming and nothing to do with pmods. He adds...that those RWT that are left can easily be dealt with..... please note here, his reference to players this time and not pmods, recognition for the everyday game player! =D>

The problem is that by not at least reading other debators posts as Jrhairychest has repeatedly advised people to do, you create more work for yourself by raising issues/points that have already been answered or responded to by others. This makes for a very frustrating debate when I see an issue raised that I have previously already spoken about or given an answer/opinion on. :wall:

As you appear to have become incapable of reading any other posts, including mine, I have decided to respond to yours instead, even if it means me repeating myself (again)! :evil: This is word of mouth and not evidential, and why have they all agreed to be pmods in the first place if it was 'such a surprise'? No one has ever said other things were not taken into consideration, but it was Jagex who stated that 'reporting' was emphasised in the selection of pmods. That is an irrelevant point to make, as you say the evidence is there now. The ordinary players report scams, usually those who have been victims of it, unless a pmod is actually in the right place at the right time...how would they know? (See a previous post). Erm.......no! Who said? No one I know did. And as I have said before, where I spend most of my time there is very rarely a mod around, even in the busy spots. I'm not sure why Jagex would not thank pmods if this was the case, it's not in their interests to ignore them or devalue the contribution. Therefore I would suggest the pmod role was likely to be insignificant in the scheme of things, especially when Jagex have attributed the praise for this to their programming. There has been evidence to support the theme of this thread and numerous opinions from other players, both for and against the topic. Yes....most definitely. Read my posts on page 22. So where are the pros here? Its all negative and all unacceptable.

Thanks RayOxide...good to see someone reasoning things out =D>

An excellent post, clearly evidences that price manipulation is not a massive concern and therefore is not against the rules in any way and that it is easy to spot. Looks like it won't be around much longer either. Having said that I have no doubt that someone will come along with another method of making money through some form of marketing. :?

quelmotz......did you even read my post? Most of the points you raise (other than your aggression) are addressed there! :shame:

Let me clarify.....I do not hate pmods, what I dislike is the entire concept of the unnecessary, frontline 'policing' of a game through the old system that was available to anyone who used the reporting procedure correctly. What I am trying to do is establish that accepting it was purely about having perceived 'status' and not about purpose. And the points I made in my previous post on this page still stand unchallenged. Unfortunately people like Lord_Shalaj and a_local_guy seem to feel that Jrhairychest is the only one worth debating with, when others like myself and Est0rrath have clearly supported the topic of his thread. :shame: