Erewhon2

I totally disagree with the "If I Had to be a Noob Again, I'd Say No" article. Particularly for the reasons the author gave. If RS hadn't made me run around all over the map to achieve new tasks it would have taken me forever to find my way around, It is likely there would have been places I wouldn't even have visited. Look at the quest "One Small Favour", anyone who knows that quest will remember the painful experience of having to tele/run to every conceivable spot in RS! The RS creators are aware that people need to be encouraged to explore, not everyone does it naturally. :P

"Destroys the economy" was not a term often used in 2006 when people were thankful for bots lowering the prices of nature runes, flax and yew logs so they could make an easy 99 through Fletching and have an easy way of training Magic simultaneously. Perspective is a wonderful thing. The only thing bots do in terms of price manipulation is tilt the supply vs demand balance. If herbs weren't so low, all you'd have is people whining because Herblore is too expensive for people to realistically obtain overloads. It has destroyed the economy...achieving 99 in skills that can be easily 'bought' makes them meaningless now. In the days of high priced raw materials, I was mostly self sufficient and enjoyed playing the game based on an overall approach to levelling, in other words getting 99 wasn't my total aim, playing the game was. I also made some great profit from selling raw materials. Nowadays it just seems that players think that getting 99 is all the game is about. The excessive use of bots has only made this worse, now people think I am 'weird' when I proudly state that I am getting 99 farming without spending gp and they ask " isn't that taking like forever!" Well yeah so what? Its a great personal achievement!. =D>

No guarantee legit players will stay forever, trends change. If anything Jagex may see bots as a more stable investment :lol: Surely common sense dictates that more legit players will come to RS if present players are content with their game play? At the moment the dissatisfaction expressed by many will be spread by word of mouth, the same applies when an individual enjoys a game...they tell people about it. As for comparing RS with WoW, they are two entirely different styles of game with different objectives and its only fairly recently that RS has even indroduced the concept of Clans (Guilds in WoW). RS is a game that is based around quests within an overall story line, a world that is meaningful and you can get to know. It is also a game targeted at enabling players to dictate their own style of game play. At one time they didn't even have '99' capes, so how anyone can say thats what RS is all about I don't know. The whole point of RS is to provide a game of longevity, for players to take their time....role play, share activities, do tasks, quests etc....not power through levels. Unless thats their choice of course, in which case yes even I would find it boring!

Can't let this thead be just pictures of women! Jensen Ackles...otherwise known as 'Dean Winchester' :wink:

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing. Edmund Burke (British Statesman and Philosopher, 1729-1797) Need I say more......really?

The discussion here is about the Jiblix situation, I have been discussing players responsibilities towards supporting Jagex in trying to stop botting and cheating game play (including the subject of Jiblix, who as I said before had an excellent video and opportunity, but trashed it with his contemptuous comments at Jagex). This is not a witch hunt and its unfortunate you feel that way, I have exampled you and 'others' as you are not alone in your standpoint. I was encouraging the debate by pointing out some flaws in your opinion, particularly the contradiction (as above) of supporting cheating behaviour of friends/acquaintances and others, stating that you do not applaud it, yet you do not judge them personally or do anything about it. Those points do leave you wide open for challenge. I cannot prove whether reports make a difference or not, thats just one piece in an armory of things we can do, including addressing the issue with those we know who bot. Its not my role as a player to insist on individual feedback for each potential bot I report, I leave that for Jagex to sort out...as long as I know I am doing my bit. Therefore I come back to the issue of people arguing against reporting because it doesn't suit them, or that they may support the use of bots. I suppose with you I was trying to clearly work out if you were for bots or against them to establish why you held to your particular viewpoint, well you have clearly answered that you are for them by stating that you won't challenge others for using them and in fact find them beneficial, this is where we will have to disagree. Just to add that personal opinions are exactly what feeds a debate, how can you argue a point if you don't have an opinion? :P The question to Crossed was rhetorical in context to the debate, he did not need to answer, it was to emphasis the point I was making and cause him to reflect on that issue, and has no relevance to potentially breaking the forum rule of 'how to cheat'. Please see my points to Crossed above to understand the relevance. I am in no way attempting some kind of 'smear campaign' and I resent the implication. Personally I thought it was an interesting debate, challenging someones standpoint that I disagree with while he is trying to get me to see his point of view .....hence: debate. :huh:

What kind of answer are you expecting? You accomplish nothing with that question, except maybe make people assume things about me that aren't true. So I'd like you to stop pursuing that line of reasoning. Actually its very relevant and my point is that you are probably one of a number of people who have contradictory principles, on the one hand you/they complain about the bots and the demodding of Jiblix (although personally I think they are 2 separate issues), yet on the other you/they condone and even applaud this cheating behaviour in your friends. I would suggest you get off the fence, either you agree with it or you don't. Behaviour like this may seem meaningless in a game, but it is a reflection of peoples standards in real life...hence I queried the fact that you may use bots yourself, but want to appear that its a problem that is soley Jagex's. This would therefore explain these conflicting views.

I shall look out for you teezkut...I love the cosmic earrings! :thumbsup:

The police could say the same...i.e. don't bother reporting a crime, because you might get it wrong and it will make it impossible to get our stats, yet they manage because they have to. The same with Jagex, it's their job to sort out what is a mistake and what is genuine, but at least they will have more to work with. Jiblix's video could have been a really useful tool used properly, sadly he used it as a platform for a personal attack at Jagex and as soon as he did that, they probably stopped listening. :roll:

I didn't say all, I said a lot and yes I agree it is a smaller number compared to those that power through the levels, but still enough numbers to be represented. By 'the wider game' I meant all of RS, not just Dungeoneering. 'Accommodating the team' works both ways, choose your team wisely and you won't be 'dragged down', alternatively offer to play to other people's style occasionally so you don't drag them down to your style of play....you see? Its all subjective. You would be taken out of your 'comfort zone' learning how to enjoy and explore floors and complete a level in the most thorough way possible. I am just making a point here, that everyone thinks their way is best and you and others are not recognising that fact, making assumptions that anyone who doesn't play it by your rules is inefficient because they don't 'rush floors'. For me it is inefficient to leave something half done, but then xp is not the most important thing to me, game enjoyment is.

Misinformed? there are enough votes on here that tell us a lot of people like to play this by the longer method rather than 'powering' through, I hardly think its because they don't know any better! In which case your assumptions around stats become meaningless. I may not play Dungeoneering as a rule, but I have played it. I like to look at everything and try everything on every floor, not because I am 'misinformed', but because thats my style of game play. My game has never been about powering xp and getting 99 as quickly as possible, its always been about playing RS to suit me. Now your game playing style may be totally about xp and 99's without any real interest in the wider game, but thats your preference, not mine. Possibly Dungeoneering is a good mini game for people like yourself to get together and charge through the levels. IMO though there is little consideration for players who like to do it differently, especially when the impatience you have demonstrated is portrayed. So it would appear that Dungeoneering is becoming an 'elitist' mini game (like others) where those who bulldoze their way through and achieve high levels quickly will only play with like minded people.

I am proud of the fact that I have achieved level 63 Dungeoneering purely by 'Tears of Guthix'! I have had a small attempt at playing it with one other person. And even then I had to explore every room thoroughly and fight everything....its in my nature lol :roll: I have no interest in large team games, I am a solo or duo player in all aspects of RS. I don't even belong to a clan *shock, horror* do I hear a huge intake of breath? I have accepted that most mini games on RS will never be a gaming area for me, i.e. Dungeoneering, Fishing Trawler, Soul Wars, the Orb Project, etc and I am unlikely to ever see a Citadel except in pictures. :cry:

But that's exactly what Jiblix did and he got punished for it, so Jagex obviously knows the state of the game, and him getting punished just goes to show how much they care about it. It doesn't look like Jiblix was 'demodded' for his reporting, it would appear it was for his comments that were 'anti-Jagex' probably not the best thing to do if you wanted to remain a pmod, in fact I wouldn't have been surprised if they had kicked him from the game for his comments. Not taking anything away from the video itself, which was a real eye opener. However if mod status didn't worry him then he can say what he likes. It still does not support your arguments, RS is a community and condoning botting exacerbates the situation. If I had friends who played a game by cheating or playing against the rules, I would speak to them or at least question the type of company I was keeping.....unless of course I was doing the same..... :shame:

Lol! Maybe I should rent out the space that Zezima stands on? I could use vials of water and say they are holy water he has blessed.....money making scam or what? You're actually not far off things that have already happened. As it is people take screen shots of Zezima speaking: "OMFG, he said hello and I got a screenie of it!!!" People already ask him for something of his that they can keep, how long before others try selling items of having belonged to Zezima? I am using him as an example because he is the one I know and have seen the general 'public' reaction. Players will use examples of what he has said as if they are beyond reproof, he said it so therefore it is true, adulation to the point of religious fervour. :huh:

I thought the Idolatry and Reverence article was excellent and well written. Of course it was bias, it was the authors opinion! Which he then invited comments for. I realise not every player behaves in that way, but I have regularly been witness to the ridiculous level of adulation being shown to well known players. An example is my usual homeworld is one that Zezima frequents and he goes through phases of 'hanging out' in the same bank as myself, when that happens I end up having to switch public chat off or move to another bank. Players find he's there, then tell everyone in their clan or on their friends list, next thing you know there are 100 players all begging Zezima to add them, let them have his babies or say hello because they are videoing this (this is after all a 2 inch high pixel, lets not forget that) and various other bizarre and disturbing comments, some of which are too rude for this post. Don't tell me this isn't 'hero worship', because it is and is totally inappropriate too. The tip.it article had it spot on! :thumbsup:

I am not going to quote anybody directly as there are so many points that can be challenged and it would make this post too tedious, but certain individuals should take note as I am probably talking about you :shame: Firstly on the whole issue of botting, everyone has a responsibility to report inappropriate or illegal game play. Runescape is a community based game and is reliant on the players working to that end, even if they are solo players overall. How anyone can say they have 'friends who bot' and its not their problem is beyond me. There appears to be an acceptance that botting is here and no one can be bothered to do anything about it. Final responsibility lays with Jagex, I won't argue that, but they also need clear stats to establish how big the problem is. Please don't say 'they know and won't do anything about it'; Jagex are not omniscient and without the full picture being presented to them, they cannot know how offended some players are or how many bots there really are. I am not suggesting that every player and/or pmod goes looking for them and reports the 1000 bots in his or her area, come on....use some common sense. Report what you can and when you can, simple <_<

I'll be planting trees tonight, I'm so close to 99 farming and have got this far on self-sufficiency (if collecting from Miscellania comes under that heading). I already have some unfinished pots put by, not many but probably enough to do a level or 2 of herblore. The question is, will greed get the better of me? As unfinished pots go through the roof price wise, at times like this :grin:

I thought that the farming article was well thought out, with some good ideas. I do a lot of farming and I am on the last leg to 99. It would be great to consider some new aspects to it to keep the interest. :thumbsup: As for the Jiblix interview...there seems to be a lot of discussion around the sacrifice of his mod status rather than the subject matter of bots (lets get the priorities right!). Mod status is meaningless at the best of times, but the point about the bots, particularly in F2P worlds is a huge issue and its negative impact on all game play.

Oh dear.. Somebody help this kid and give him an idea about what's going on. Somebody did; because I said I didn't 'get it' or was misunderstanding something and for that simple courtesy I thanked him. As for 'kid' please don't be patronising, I could probably guarantee I am old enough to be your mother (note the feminine avatar too). I didn't see me blaming anyone, I did suggest that the OP could have been clearer and see my response above...I said I didn't get it and asked someone to explain what the joke was. Maybe you didn't read my posts properly <_< And yes I would tell someone if the joke was poorly told and only a few people got it, probably only the ones who had 'heard it all before'. I think thats enough, it's bad enough anyone being the brunt of a joke with someone like yourself trying to justify their right to do that in an insulting way that is not amusing (except to you and your mates). In other circles it might even be classed as a form of bullying, laughing behind peoples backs and pointing fingers, while keeping the reason for laughter to yourselves. Then when that person finds out the reason, you then blame THEM for being "stupid"? Yup, typical bullying tactics and I have worked with the victims of those kind of personalities. I can take an amusing joke on me fine, but not with childish, insulting and demeaning comments. I hope you get in the adult world soon :shame: Moving on and OT....there appears to have been a recent spate of beggars asking for 10 mill???? Wow, imagine that in the real world!

Well I don't need to justify my age, reading skills or level of employment to you, so I forgive you for being rude and lacking in basic social skills. I wonder if you are like this to everyone who may not get a joke first time, or misinterpretes something? Be interesting to see you shouting at yourself in the mirror when you do it and I can assure you beyond a doubt....it will happen.

Ok so its rant at the person who said they didn't get the joke is it? Oh yes....that is very intelligent and grown up. Erm...I'm sure it wasn't my imagination, I definitely saw a number of you 'counting up' those who didn't get the point of the OP, was it 7 or 8 you got up to. Does that tell you anything? Or are you just going to assume because you got it and others didn't, then everyone else is stupid? (Your term, not mine). Sarcasm is not always obvious and yes some of those hints you suggested so derisively would have actually been helpful, you know? The ones called 'emotes' to indicate the tone of a sentence or paragrah and yes I am being sarcastic and don't mind making it obvious, after all we wouldn't want people thinking you're stupid would we. :ohnoes:

Re-read the OP He's ranting about people making threads asking for money, he's not actually asking for money, nor did he get hacked. And he included two of the classic trust scams in his post just to add to his point...that apparently one actually got. Thank you, someone with the decency to explain. Unfortunately it's not obvious and I would suggest the OP makes it clearer if he wants genuine opinions and shared rants otherwise (myself included) will respond to what we think is being said. And that makes the thread a nonsense :huh:

Well I'm obviously missing the joke here....are you going to share? Or continue giggling behind your hands because people have responded genuinely to the OP, when there appears to be some other element going on.

This is the most ridiculous comment I have seen in a while. So you promote the idea of cheats, scammers, thieves and generally unsavoury characters whether RS or RL? Because you think they ......keep....our....economy....afloat!!!! And in the unlikely chance that prices rocketed, then I would be very happy mining and making a huge profit. Many businesses in the real world have tumbled because of a false economy led by underhand tactics. Jagex tries to stay on top because bots are generally bad for business and make the customers (us) unhappy. However it is a bit like trying to stay on top of a computer virus, everytime you deal with one, there is another newly developed one.

Most people I know have been the victim of one scam and have then learnt their lesson. For those that don't learn there is an English saying..... "Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me" Says it all really, accept it happened and move on, but don't let it happen again.