Erewhon2

I haven't kept up with the whole of this debate, but have dipped in and out of reading it. I don't hink f2p should get skill capes, I am aware there are loyal f2p players and I keep at least one f2p account up to date as well as my member account. That is irrelevant, Jagex is a business, they want f2p players to respond to the adverts or become members, or preferably both! : I would disagree with this, it doesn't matter if they lose f2p players, no business wants to 'stagnate' which is what will happen if they don't bring new players in. Long term f2p will be used to the adverts, will probably ignore them, have already decided to not become members, therefore are no use to Jagex at all....other than some ability to bring in new players. Membership brings in longer term and more reliable revenue, that is why Jagex should keep all major benefits, updates and skill capes for members. After all, what other game offers free on line gaming with quests etc to the extent Jagex already does, and with no time limit? (And this has been mentioned before). :shame:

All reports should be given equal weight! Reports should be treated as though they are 'complaints', the same as for any organisation, Jagex has to decide how to prioritise them once they are in, not by who sends them!!!! And that is why my point about 'importance' I don't see pmods as more important than I am, however it appears they do and so do many young and impressionable players and this is not acceptable. Pmods are players who pay their monthly membership the same as me. Erm.....my point was not meant 'literally' lol. It was meant just because someone asks you to do something, you don't do it unless you have some reason, even if its to make yourself happy. "Why not" is an opt out, especially when we are talking about something like this. It's what a teenager would say when asked out on a date, rather than admit they really want to go out with that girl/boy. Dictionary definition: A disease doesn't meant to harm or negatively impact, but it does.....just by existing. If the pmods were not there, there would be no 'misconceptions' or negative effects....of course it is caused by the moderators! No matter how calculated or unintentional #-o

Well you know my stand point on supposed 'grinding' by now. I understand your previous point about direct interface improvements, that have no relation to skill development and don't have a problem with that. I still have a problem with the fact that because some players don't like certain aspects of the game, instead of avoiding that skill, they still want to '99' it! And want the tedium removed, irrespective of others who enjoy it the way it is. See above. One of my key arguments is for variety, the example of "smoking kills", gave variety to slayer and that was a good thing. I have given examples before...and its not about negative impact, its about how far does it go? How easy to people want the game to be? My examples of unnecessary and unbalanced updates would be: Noted crops, auto refill for ectofunctus, Pyramid Plunder, rest stops (I worked hard for my agility so I didn't take so long to recover, and admittedly loved every minute of it :thumbup: ), godswords, bandos.

I have to disagree here, people are responsible for themselves. If they don't read the advice or rules, then they shouldn't complain when the inevitable happens. And I always read the small print in a contract, every damn word! Learnt that one the hard way. I don't understand the metaphor here, I am not saying the GE is guilty of price manipulation, but the clans doing the manipulating, therefore it is the person using the tool, not the tool itself to blame. Having said that, some clans playing with price manipulation in an 'on-line' game hardly equates to murder and terrorism now does it????? Lets keep this real and in proportion! :o It's not against the rules, whatever 'moral highground' you may take, do you ever use the GE? Do you ever sell anything when the price is high? If you do, then you too are part of price manipulation however unintentionally. :shame: I do take advantage and openly admit that.

I can see your points on the areas above, particularly as they have no direct relation to skill development, but are mostly to do with programming. This is however a change in direction for you, and while I am gratified that you now appear to support my stand point. I am not sure that you appreciate the fact that you have completely changed the direction of your debate. and I can go on........ I hope that you can now see that for some the 'grinding' and 'boring' bits are as much part of the game as anything else and as enjoyable, especially for relaxation. And 'shortcutting' them to make things faster or easier because some people don't like it, is not on in my books!

See above, and yes I do believe the pmod has has an insidious impact on the community. It will need to justify its existence slightly less in the future. But for those pmods who have been around, yes I want their reasons or admission that this was for personal status, justified with a perceived and imaginary sense of purpose. But be aware that so far the reasons given are all arguable as being applicable to any player, bar the 'mute' option and even that is balanced by the 'ignore' capability. :shame:

To be honest, the only way to ensure you are not part of price manipulation is to not use the GE in any size shape or form. It is possible, although it would change the nature of the game for the individual and this has been suggested before. That's why the GE is not like a real economy, we can actually manage without it. It is a choice to use the GE and profit or lose by that use.

Well...yes, but I do read the small print! Lmao! OMG that is soooo funny, I can't stop laughing....*hic* How can I ever take this debate seriously again????? :lol:

Well...yes, but I do read the small print! Lmao! OMG that is soooo funny, I can't stop laughing....*hic* How can I ever take this debate seriously again????? :lol:

erm.....well who's fault is that then? If I'm concerned about something I certainly do read the rules, I have no sympathy for someone who moans about a problem they could have prevented if they had taken responsibility for their own actions. I've been scammed before, when there was no trade limit, yes I was seriously annoyed, but accepted that it was my own fault for getting involved and not checking things out first. Price manipulation is not against the rules, anyone can take advantage of it, if they want to. Occasionally yes, you may lose some money....but really! yes they will, but it has not occured yet, so my point still stands from my previous post:

erm.....well who's fault is that then? If I'm concerned about something I certainly do read the rules, I have no sympathy for someone who moans about a problem they could have prevented if they had taken responsibility for their own actions. I've been scammed before, when there was no trade limit, yes I was seriously annoyed, but accepted that it was my own fault for getting involved and not checking things out first. Price manipulation is not against the rules, anyone can take advantage of it, if they want to. Occasionally yes, you may lose some money....but really! yes they will, but it has not occured yet, so my point still stands from my previous post:

Ok....I think we need to be clear that Jagex are the ones who have emphasised the important role 'reporting' has had in their selection of pmods in the past, inarguably stated as for both quantity and quality, and they said this is no longer what they are looking for, hence the application process now. Maybe I should be really blunt about how the whole pmod status vs purpose appears to me now...... What gives you the right?..... to be superior? to be more important than the ordinary player? to control conversation wherever you appear? to cause grovelling, anger, boredom when you appear? to have your reporting given more weight than mine? to mute fellow players?and I could go on..... Are you more helpful? No, you are just RS players with a crown, you are still human. There a probably good pmods and just as many bad, knowledgeable ones as well as ignorant. Please don't come at me with this 'holier than thou' attitude, look at the list! There are good ordinary players and bad, exactly the same as pmods, who can be just as helpful or not. I don't care if Jagex offered the crown out of the blue "oooooo I was soooo surprised" *blush*. This isn't an oscar award, it is giving you perceived status over other ordinary players, you accepted the role and all it entails. Why? (Please note that 'you' is plural here). :shame:

Ok....I think we need to be clear that Jagex are the ones who have emphasised the important role 'reporting' has had in their selection of pmods in the past, inarguably stated as for both quantity and quality, and they said this is no longer what they are looking for, hence the application process now. Maybe I should be really blunt about how the whole pmod status vs purpose appears to me now...... What gives you the right?..... to be superior? to be more important than the ordinary player? to control conversation wherever you appear? to cause grovelling, anger, boredom when you appear? to have your reporting given more weight than mine? to mute fellow players?and I could go on..... Are you more helpful? No, you are just RS players with a crown, you are still human. There a probably good pmods and just as many bad, knowledgeable ones as well as ignorant. Please don't come at me with this 'holier than thou' attitude, look at the list! There are good ordinary players and bad, exactly the same as pmods, who can be just as helpful or not. I don't care if Jagex offered the crown out of the blue "oooooo I was soooo surprised" *blush*. This isn't an oscar award, it is giving you perceived status over other ordinary players, you accepted the role and all it entails. Why? (Please note that 'you' is plural here). :shame:

Uh, yeah. Because they're not a big deal. Duh. Exactly! So why change what works? If its not 'a big deal' then why do people keep asking for the shortcuts? Obviously for some it is a big deal, and their impatience means they get bored easily and want to level up faster and easier. I still say if you don't like it do something else. Your example of hunting red chinchompas is good, as it is so unnecessary to hunt them unless you particularly wish to level up fast and easy. I would say....go hunt something else that is more enjoyable if it bores or irritates you. But 'heaven forbid'! that might mean it will take longer to get to 99 or make the next 500 mill! :shock:

Uh, yeah. Because they're not a big deal. Duh. Exactly! So why change what works? If its not 'a big deal' then why do people keep asking for the shortcuts? Obviously for some it is a big deal, and their impatience means they get bored easily and want to level up faster and easier. I still say if you don't like it do something else. Your example of hunting red chinchompas is good, as it is so unnecessary to hunt them unless you particularly wish to level up fast and easy. I would say....go hunt something else that is more enjoyable if it bores or irritates you. But 'heaven forbid'! that might mean it will take longer to get to 99 or make the next 500 mill! :shock:

It depends on the how and why you play, as to whether RS is worth it. For me it is totally worth what I get out of it, which is relaxation after work and at the weekends. It doesn't take over my life it enhances it, I still go to the gym, I work full time and surprise, surprise....I have a social life :o When it isn't worth it, is when someone plays 24/7, thrashes RS for 3 months, gets bored and moves on..., meanwhile their wife has left them, their work has fired them, and they've defaulted on the mortgage, even the dog has moved in with the neighbour....then RS is not worth it ;) But most of all, don't take RS too seriously!

My point is that it may be boring for some, not for others. Everyone has different tastes, for example I really enjoy thieving and farming, other people hate it, but still do it.....aiming for 99...and demanding that it is made easier and the grind is taken away....why? I dislike summoning, so I don't do it very often. Something might be "boring or cappy" for you or me, but someone else could really enjoy that part of the game.

This I have to agree with, although I am surprised that you raised it. :shock:

They would spend their time on it, the same as they do for any new game development, including quests, skills etc. They want players to want pmod status, it's something to aim for. Maybe it was even an experiment, that they now realise was totally going in the wrong direction, certainly it would appear that way from the way players respond to pmods presence. And you are right, what I have been given so far has not answered the question of why do this, when it is a game and is not needed or necessary? Actually the anology does work for me, I would take Jrhairychests point to be 'proportionate'. Poor practice that is a danger to a company or an individual should be 'whistleblown'. But petty misdemeanors can often be dealt with face to face by the person who saw it occur. For example: So ultimately this comment does not surprise me, and again I find my opinion being reinforced, I bet you do enjoy your status.....a lot! =D>

I have no doubt that Jagex will get round to preventing price manipulation from taking place, although I am sure something else will be invented by players trying to make a quick buck at the expense of others...human nature lol. But I must admit, it hasn't had much of an impact on me, I have never been part of it through a clan, nor would I, but I have taken advantage of price swings as I am sure many others have. ;) As I said previously, there is plenty of guidelines and information on rs and other places on this subject, no one need be 'ignorant'. This is not at all the same thing as a new player being lured to the wildy (as used to happen). Those that agree to be part of a price manipulation clan are hardly 'new' to the game, they have to have money to 'stake'. #-o

This is again one of the points I am making, if I find it boring I won't do it....that simple. I don't do the ecto grinder because I don't particularly like it. If I work on my prayer I do it another way, enjoyment is more important than speed for me. And this is where we lead back into the debate, people only aiming for the fastest way to 99 a skill, and totally losing sight of the 'game' of rs. :shame: Especially if you opt for a slower method of skilling up, and being able to have variety is what is important. It just seems that attention spans are so limited with many people, they want instant gratification and permanent stimulation otherwise they are bored.

I don't get bored with 'grinding', I find it relaxing, especially after a hard day at work, that is the whole point I am making!!!!! I don't want more shortcuts to get rid of 'tedium' I like it! It may not be skillful, it may be lots of button clicking....so what? The point I'm stating...is if you don't like it, go do some other skill or play the game the way it suits you. Don't suggest cutting out the parts that others enjoy because they bore you, thats selfish, just because you want to get to 99 faster. Now hopefully I have put that nice and simply. :pray:

Thanks for the definition Sonic3190 :thumbup: At least you are trying to reason your way through this, there is clarity on the point as Jrhairychest so aptly put it: And yes this does not allow for those grey areas around the morality of price manipulation. However I have to say that point was ground to death in earlier posts, with the final conclusion that ultimately the 'right' and 'wrong' of it was down to whether it was against the rules or not (which it isn't). The reason for this being, that unless you completely avoid the GE in all you do on RS, you will inevitably be part of the 'problem' as any player can and will benefit from price increases, or be part of a price crash. Therefore...play the game, enjoy it and stop taking it so seriously, you can always make more money, remember in RL you can't go out and cut some magic logs to make a few bucks! :thumbsup:

What I'm not sure about, is whether I am not making myself clear or whether people are deliberately avoiding reflecting on their motives for wanting or agreeing to be a pmod. -.- When I first started posting on this thread, I suspected that pmods were doing it for status, but I was still very open for the debate. However I have to say that this debate has been enlightening for me and has make me think hard about this issue. My personal conclusion from the responses is that pmods have served no useful purpose whatsoever, they do nothing that other players can't do, except mute, but players have the option of 'ignore' so that is balanced out too. In most instances when they appear, conversation becomes overtaken, inhibited and at times aggressive and I usually end up leaving the area. Therefore I have decided that Jagex only introduced pmods as a status incentive for players, inventing an almost plausible role for them, that those who wished for that status would believe and work towards. Almost like another part of the game, 99 in reporting and you become a pmod. Or 99 in whatever interpretation you want to give it and you become a pmod, you 'win' the prize, get the crown as a reward and then run around trying to be 'helpful' (or not) while the pmod wannabe's swoon and faint at your feet. Some being aggressive in their jealousy or anger at the role, while others just sigh, roll their eyes and leave. This post may irritate some people, but it is the arrogant and pretentious posting on this thread, with complete lack of personal insight, and a propensity to ignore what they don't wish to answer, that has clarified my thinking to such a strong conclusion. =D>

No one is starting a 'flame war' (whatever that means), but yours is just an opinion that I am disagreeing with. Whether it is right or wrong morally, price manipulation is not against the rules and many people also benefit as well as lose, whether its the new addy or mith you buy, or bandos! :wall: Yes I did read what you put, did you read mine? As Est0rrath states: This is not real life, it is a game, how are people being abused? These are incredibly strong terms for something that is a game and completely out of proportion to the issue. There are clear guidelines from Jagex on dealing with those clans that manipulate prices for anyone that wants to read them. However the point I was making is that it is not stated anywhere that it is against the rules and I have spent time looking! Please note this direct quote from Jagex: It clearly says it is NOT a "massive concern" and all they are doing is trying to prevent it happening, not making it 'against the rules'. Do not equate RS with RL in case you hadn't realised.....it isn't. :shame: