muggiwhplar

Yeah man I'm in the same boat and it really sucks :\ Someone said Jagex had a fix that was going to be released soon, but I don't know if they already released it or not... some people are more affected than others :\

You're correct. I alluded to this last week when I mentioned that I was the happiest I'd ever been and happier than most of my friends while I was single. If you're going to start having relationships, the structure of monogamy includes many risks which threaten that happiness. The polyamorous lifestyle doesn't really have anything like that, considering there isn't too much commitment involved, depending on what kind of relationship you go with. I talked about this a long time ago on this thread as well-- basically saying that the more you invest into something or the more you care about something, the greater influence it has over your emotions. The more you invest, the more you gain, but the more you have to lose if it doesn't work out. Like I said above-- I'm very happy while remaining single. I don't pursue relationships. If I cross paths with a girl and things happen, that's awesome. If I don't, that's fine too. The point I was trying to make earlier when I asked why people entered monogamous relationships was that I feel many people enter relationships from a scarcity mentality, and that they enter in a state of neediness. If you feel unloved and you want a boyfriend/girlfriend just to feel loved because you think it'll make you happy, you're getting into a relationship for totally the wrong reasons. Only you can make yourself feel loved. When the people on this thread say things like "how do I get this girl to like me?!" it sort of implies a scarcity mentality in their lives-- that this one girl will magically fix all of his problems by making him feel loved, and that they are incapable of meeting and being with other girls. In polyamorous relationships, there's no such thing as scarcity-- it's a life of abundance instead. The monogamous relationship is usually built around the scarcity mentality. Now if you're totally happy with yourself, cross paths with a girl who's also totally happy with herself, then you'll have a pretty good time while it lasts. Yes, I know. I'm not on here to change beliefs-- I've come to the conclusion that the only way to change people's beliefs is to inspire them by demonstrating how happy you can be with an alternative set of beliefs. But I don't think that's very feasible for me using a medium such as this-- I'm just a stranger on the internet to most of these people :P So instead, the best I can hope for is to put the idea into people's minds that perhaps monogamy isn't the only way, and that Disney fairy tale/romantic comedy endings aren't realistic. Just "spreading awareness" as they say. I could talk about this with you for a very, very, long time... but I'll try to keep my thoughts as concise as I can :P I already am a pariah, and I have been my entire life. I'll reiterate a point that I've been trying to emphasize here for a while: your perception of the world around you dictates the way you feel. There was a time when I hated being so different from everybody else I knew. But then I changed the way I thought about it-- instead of hiding from it, I embraced it. And I've been extremely happy ever since. With that said, if you allow other people's opinions of you dictate the way you think, feel, and act, you're going to have a very difficult time finding happiness. I'm glad you think so :) I don't think I ever said the divorce rate was 80%. It's more like 50%. I don't want to type out my elaboration of this again; read my response to Tripsis here Also, that seems to be the last year we have any published stats for, which is why I am using fairly old numbers. I imagine its climbed a bit higher since then, though I doubt its cracked 45% yet. I'm not really interested in remarriage stats. Not until I have a relationship that fails because of age (I don't do distance relationships, which has killed all of them thus far). So monogamy does seem to work for more people than you give it credit for. Yes, some people are unhappy, and don't get a divorce, but its not fair to assume that there are all these unhappy couple out there. This begs the question, what is your experience. If I had to guess, I would say that your family, and the families of your friends have had a lot of unhappy marriages and/or divorces for you to be so against it. Am I close? Not close at all, actually :P There haven't been any divorces in my family-- and that's including all of my aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc. My parents have been happily married for 45 years. Both grandparents were married from their 20s till death. There's a lot to talk about here, but in a nutshell the times have changed. Society, norms, and marriage were much different back then before the 1990s. Divorce was a major taboo back then, feminism and the sexual revolution had yet to occur, etc. woah woah woah dude. people don't agree with you and you're calling them less open-minded and bias? sheesh. The point I was trying to make was that when people are infatuated, they're a lot more "deluded" than when their emotions have subsided. Yguy's already past the honeymoon phase in his relationship, which is why I appreciate his insights more than the people whose chemicals are still all over the place :P He's also got a more realistic perception of his relationship and its future. Yes, every human being is different. But there are certain things that almost all human beings have in common. For example, you should know that neediness repels girls. Do you think that that's only a situational factor, and that it's possible for some guys to be extremely needy and still end up in a successful relationship where both sides are happy because we're always changing? Furthermore-- people change, yes. But the structure of monogamy doesn't. That sounds terrible to me-- we both have a different understanding of "manhood." Another big topic there-- let me know if you wanna discuss it!

Yup

It's not the relationships that make me happy. I make me happy. Relationships in general, regardless of what kind, aren't essential ingredients for happiness. They all have their ups and downs. I just believe that monogamy has much steeper ups and downs with much higher odds of leaving you less happy in the long run.

But polyamorous relationships' lifespans are very short. Some are just one night stands. They all come and go very fast.

No you're not all doomed to life-long misery with your exclusive, long-term partner. I just don't think it's a wise path to choose if you want to be happy for the rest of your life. But you're not stating that from a position of experience and authority, that's my point. I personally don't think polyamory is a wise path to choose if you want to be happy for the rest of your life either; but I accept that it's entirely possible for you to find happiness in that as what you want and need in life may differ from my wants and needs. I also have never tried having multiple sexual partners in an open relationship. I think it could also be argued that you're not necessarily qualified to argue in favor of monogamy either though. You've been in a relationship for 4.5 years, but if you're assuming you'll be together for the rest of your lives, you're still in the relationship's infancy. There's still lots left for you to experience... moving in together, getting married, having kids, etc.

No you're not all doomed to life-long misery with your exclusive, long-term partner. I just don't think it's a wise path to choose if you want to be happy for the rest of your life.

I just don't wanna argue with people who are currently in the honeymoon phase because I don't really see the point. You're right that I changed the numbers around-- I should've just said "anyone currently not in the honeymoon phase." I figured 5 years was a safe number :P If the honeymoon phase lasted forever, then relationships would never fail. The bolded is categorically untrue. An enormous number of relationships fail before the honeymoon phase even ends; or even if it's barely begun. And if you don't want to argue with people who "are still in the honeymoon phase", then we should refuse to argue with you until you've been in a long term relationship. Sounds fair to me :P

Marriage isn't stupid. You're still thinking one should consider themselves to have an 87% chance of failure. In marriage, one should not assume the chances are on one's side. One should take concrete action to ensure they are, and that starts by choosing the right partner. Some ideas are listed in the link in my previous post. Examples of people who are still madly in love after 20 years also included; their brains, when presented with a picture of their partners, behaved the same way the brains of people who just got in a relationship did, except areas linked to fear and anxiety were inactive. Like I said last time we debated this about a week ago, it's not just the people or their personalities/biology/etc. It's the structure of monogamy that ultimately leads to failure. I'd be interested in seeing a more in-depth explanation about what those couples' relationships are like. I have a feeling it's not the same as you'd imagine it to be.

I just don't wanna argue with people who are currently in the honeymoon phase because I don't really see the point. You're right that I changed the numbers around-- I should've just said "anyone currently not in the honeymoon phase." I figured 5 years was a safe number :P If the honeymoon phase lasted forever, then relationships would never fail.

No, I'm fine debating it with them as long as they've been in a relationship for at least 5 years or so. But I have yet to meet anyone who feels the same way about their partner 5+ years later as they did when they first met. Peoples' brains change too much while they're in the honeymoon phase for me to take their thoughts too seriously. I'd rather wait for their brains to return to normal while still in the relationship and see how they're doing :P Are you still w/ your girlfriend btw? If so, how long's it been now?

I thought I made it clear that I didn't want to debate this w/ people like Tripsis who are already happy in a relationship. I'm mostly interested in discussing this w/ the single guys who think they need a monogamous relationship to be happy. Anyways... I do give the benefit of the doubt to the people I know who are dating and monogamous, just because they don't have anything to lose if things go south and I enjoy seeing them happy together (even though in the back of my mind I'm not expecting it to remain that way for very long). However, when men want to get married, that's when I can no longer offer them the benefit of the doubt. Men have a LOT to lose if their marriage doesn't work. Crossing your fingers and hoping that everything will work out isn't being optimistic; it's being stupid.

The 13% aren't in the type of relationship that most people fantasize about-- the people in that group are very low-sex drive and very low-maintenance. Nothing too exciting there. But again, why would you choose monogamy when the odds are drastically stacked against you, when you could choose polyamory which has zero risks or chances of failure, and yields at least the same (usually higher) amount of happiness? I don't know-- whether or not the rest of society would benefit if everyone was polyamorous doesn't really matter to me. I don't think monogamy's benefiting society today as much as it did in the past, though. I think society is slowly starting to shift away from monogamy and marriage.

Like I said-- you're both happy now. Be very grateful for that and appreciate every moment you have together.

I understand that you're both happy right now-- probably happier than you were while single. And that's a good thing. I just don't think it's realistic to expect that to last forever, considering that feeling has never lasted for anyone forever. Men usually start to get needy, women usually start to get bored, things start to fall apart. The model of monogamy revolves around this.

Sure it sounds presumptuous because it's directly questioning your current situation. But if strong scientific and empirical evidence isn't enough, then what is? Are you sure it was the long distance and hardship that caused him to start being extremely jealous, paranoid, and needy?

I honestly don't appreciate this kind of presumptuous attitude. I've been in my current relationship for over two years and before this I was in a 4 year long relationship. No I can't tell you for certain what my situation will be like in a year or two, but you can't assume that I'll suddenly be less in love by then. And you're not biased? Yes, I know I sound like a dick whenever I discuss this with you lol. But there's not really any nice way of me saying "Based on the scientific articles I've read and all of the relationships I've seen/experienced, you're probably not going to feel this way forever. Or even for 3 years." Why did your 4-year relationship end?

Just clarifying something for a second here: I favor polyamory, not polygamy. Polyamory means not getting into exclusive relationships. Polygamy means having multiple wives. Polygamy's bullshit lol. I'll edit this post further or post another reply later. I'm not going to spend much time arguing with the people who are currently in the honeymoon phase of their relationships; their emotions aren't the same right now as they will be in a year or two for now But to those who are on the fence or don't really have strong beliefs on the issue, they're more interesting to discuss this with considering they're more open-minded and less biased about it. My stance on relationships: No relationship "model" is perfect; each has its flaws and weaknesses. When it comes to monogamy, I think serial monogamy can work for some people, but long-term monogamy (3+) years works for practically nobody. When comparing polyamory to monogamy, polyamory generally "beats" monogamy in every comparison. Also remember that when I compare the two, I compare them based on happiness generated from the arrangement. What do you mean by social benefits? Why would one be uncomfortable with the idea of polyamorous relationships? There's no family involved. It's just two individuals, living their lives with all the freedom in the world, and these two individuals happen to fool around sometimes. There's no "relationship."

Looks like this thread's going through another frozen period till someone asks the usual "how do I get this girl to like me" question... Anyways, I was having fun debating polyamory last week lol. So to those of you who still favor monogamy-- can you please tell me why you want to be in a long-term (3+ years) monogamous relationship?

And what if you NEVER get invited to parties, NEVER hear of them, you're friends NEVER have them or even go to them. what then? sorry if im being aggressive I've had a [bleep] of a night, im highly pissed off and frustrated at the 100% NON EXISTENT of my social life because none of my friends have or go to parties, or dont invite me, or when they do, the only single girl there is a village bicycle with insane extra emotion baggage and suddenly the parties ruined and you've once more met NO ONE with your friends never ever ever ever helping you in any social situation including talking, meeting people, or even hooking up which has so far happened to E V E R Y friend of mine, but me. Yes, Im mad. You're responsible for everything you just complained about. If it upsets you that much, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Feeling sorry for yourself isn't going to change anything.

I don't understand where the arbitrary 75% came from

Confidence : Men :: Physical attractiveness : Women

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

It's a green dot on the minimap and their hp is 100/99

Your points don't really make Freud's beliefs any less invalid