I just hate grindy games.... like Runescape for example, unless there is a definitive end reward for something. Grinding to level up mons to beat the E4, then just hitting the restart button afterward, with nothing to show for it except for being able to say "yey, I did it" isn't tangible. Grinding for a really powerful weapon, unlock, or a permanent trophy.... I'm still hesitant but possibly willing. That's why I really don't understand why people train beyond 13m exp in any skill in RS. There is no reward except for the "yey, I did it" thing. The whole "journey = fun part" thing.... Doing tedious work that amounts to nothing isn't really something that I would look back on and say, "dang, that was some great time spending 5 hours being bored training for a 2 minute gym battle."