Raichase

I'm confused. You want to stop prayer users by encouraging people to use prayer to block another persons prayer? Why not make a prayer that is more appealing than the protection ones?

I don't understand why people want all the classes to be different and unique, yet simutaniously want each class to do exactly the same thing. Mages can hit more than one person with a spell, thats a mage advantage. If everyone had it, it wouldn't be special, would it?

I'm sorry, you want to do *what*?

This is a really good point - I think the only thing that lets this down, is the fact that wealth is too abundant in Runescape. To cite a popular example, the holiday drop. Consider. Lvl 3 player gets some crackers on Christmas Day, all that time ago. They quit for 3 years. They return, sell all of the crackers, or the hats. Why should they then have the same armour that someone who has worked hard and earned their armour from fighting to get their combat level up to wear? E.g. the Barrows armour. I really agree with you, just trying to help you flesh your idea out.

Finally, a well-written out post for us to rebutt. Much easier to work with. Allow me to de-construct it logically. Excellent. Good to see you are a man of discussion, not someone who runs away when someone disagrees. I'm not sarcastic, I can respect that. G'day mate. I'm an Aussie too. There are other methods of payment other than credit card or pay by mail. I use "Pay by Cash" which seems to work well. If none of the methods of payment are suitable for you, well thats bad luck. If none of the methods of payment are suitable, then it means you are not in a postition to pay for pay-to-play, thus you are not eligable to reap ANY of the benifits of doing so. Saying you can't pay and you would only like one tiny part of the benifits of members is not going to get you anywhere. Oh, and you know all this because not only are you very in-tune with how Jagex as a company works, you are also in tune with how their game works? Yet you can't pay by credit card nor internet banking. Interesting. I'm not going to base my argument on assumed knowledge, like you have above. Thats silly. What I will say is that some people DO join members for the extra bank space. How do I know this? It was high on the list of reasons I joined members. If they gave free to play enough bank space to do everything, I would have put off being a member till I literally had nothing left to do in F2P. That means lvl 99 in all F2P skills. So because you don't want some of the members stuff, you should get the stuff you want for free? I fail to see how this point is relevant to anything. Hell, other F2P'ers might not want more bank space, but they may want fletching. By your logic, thats fine and dandy. I suggest you back this point up with some logic or fact, or retract it. Because the very notion of someone who pays nothing getting even 0.001% of the things that are saved for people that do pay is pointless too. Agree? Say it all you want, it doesn't make it logical. So hold on for a second there. You want a members benifit. It doens't matter how much of it you want, you want it. Hell, if they were selling bags of apples at the store, and I only wanted one apple, not a whole bag, should they give me just the one apple? Nope. It's as simple as this. You even bolded it for me above. Let me spell it out for you, and if you deny it, you will be lying. You want a members benifit. Yes or No. If you answer Yes, then you will have to pay to get it. Just like everyone else does. Please, support your argument with facts that you don't know. You are assuming this. As Bubsa said, F2P can't support their own servers with the ads, thats part of the money earned from P2P. I'm P2P, so logically I should be annoyed that smoe of the money I pay is going to help F2P play. But I'm not. Because if there was no F2P, I never would have become a member. And the more people that pay F2P, the more people may join members. The more people that join members, the more money Jagex makes. The more money KJagex makes, the more even the spread of the money. That means they can spend more of our money on us members, rather than raising the price. The current system works. I have yet to see a single point to prove otherwise.

More Members Worlds? Yay! More Canadian Worlds? Huh? I'm still waiting for one in Australia. Anywhere in the Southern Hemisphere really...

Excellent post - if you can't pay for members, then you can't have members. As you said, it won't kill anyone to not get any added benifits, and if it means you spend less time playing runescape, then thats good. Hell, I've spent the same amount of time playing runescape after getting members as I did before. It's just now, I have more choice of things to do.

I still stand by my opinion that there is nothing that needs fixing. It's not broken. However, if something was to be implemented, then this idea is the best one I have seen. Some of the other ideas would keep me out of the wilderness alltogether... This one would keep me going in there for trails etc.

I don't want to be the one to tell you this, but backing down from a discussion with a comment like that effectvly means that when you get someone who disagree's with your comments, backing down straight off means you didn't believe in what you were saying... And I thought we had a discussion going too... Excellent point. Couldn't have worded it better myself. Infact, if anyone can construct a *logical* argument that rebutts that entire post, and renders it garbage, I'll not only give them a cookie, I'll watch them eat it too.

Excellent post - thats the kind we need more of here, to keep discussions from degenerating into a flame-fest. Whilst we don't need to all have perfect English, the better the wording, the easier it is to read and then understand a post. A couple of things to note for next time Elimist5000 (I haven't met the other 4999 Elimists, but I can imagine they are out there ;)). 1. Adding a line at the end of your post about how anyone that replies is going to be a "moron" who is going to "flame" you becauseyou "pwned" them, is the worst way to cap off your argument. To translate that, you arte saying to us that you will not even consider any rebuttal, or any reply because they must be a moron who is attacking you. Heaven forbid they could be offering a counter-argument... 2. Don't call people noobs. Save it for chat, instant messaging, and Runescape. Not discussion forums. By the way, calling someone a noob, and any prospective repliers morons is flaming, which is exactly what you don't want to happen to you. Dish it out, but make sure you tell everyone not to send it back. Uh huh. 3. A lot of poor arguments are backed up by volume. With your gratutious (sp?) use of the "caps lock" button, you are proving to me, before I even *read* your post, that you do not have faith in your own reasoning, or your argument as a whole. If you have no faith in the point you are trying to push onto others, it means you will not have much sucess. Because you have a sticky caps lock, you will be very lucky if you even manage to get your intended point across at all. Not meant to be a personal attack, just a blunt and blatent message to help you sharpen your arguments, so that you can get your point across without being "flamed". If anyone has problems with this message, drop me a line.

This DOES sound interesting. I'll be among the people cramming into the members servers to try this out when it is released :D.

Excellent. Also, list the prices each person is asking next to their name, and order it in order of price. Makes it interesting, as people looking to sell fast will ask for a little less than the current trading price. People making the rune will be able to sell for a little cheaper, and attract more people to their wares. This is how it works in Kingdom of Loathing anyway.

Hehe, they sure got me :). I wouldn't complain at another bank space upgrade for F2P, simply because they have access to the trimmed armour, and I don't know if they had extra space allocated for it? Even just finishing off their row, is it is rather confusing for a newbie (or anyone for that matter) to assume they can finish off the row, and have the space cut out half way through. But, on the other hand, give an inch, they will want a mile...

I would have hoped that would be assumed knowledge. Good to have someone clarify it though.

They seem to be well-thought out ideas. I especially like the in-trade chat box. I don't trade with anyone not on my friends list for this very reason. (So that when trading, we both switch public chat to friends, so we can see negotiations). It would make negotiating a trade much easier than one person yelling: Seller: "Selling X for Ygp" Buyer: "Buying X" Seller: Offers trade Buyer: Accepts trade. ***Trade Screen*** Seller: Offers item X, or the amount of X they are selling. Buyer: Offers items and gp, or items only. Seller and buyer then try to negotiate in the trade window, but 90% of their text vanishes before they can read. Result: Seller thinks buyer can't read, buyer wonders why his offer was turned down. Both people now don't like the trade system. Lets hope something gets through :).

My problem with the lack of a fire, or a range there is, 99% of the people that go there to fish KNOW there is no fire or cooking methods there, and yet they insist that someone else can make the fire. I used to cut down some logs or so, cert them, grab my tinderbox and axe, and go train against lessers. I would go fish up more lobbies, walk to the store, sell some logs, buy them back in proper form, make a fire, cook, drop burned ones, and wander back to the lessers. Heck, we're spoiled now, there are normal trees that can be cut down for logs just next to Luthas' (?) house. Just bring an axe and a tindy... *Raichase shakes his head* Selling fires - is there anything people won't sell?

*Raichase points out the wink at the end of his previous post* 'Nuff said.

Indeed we do. I pay for my Runescape. It's a good spot to fish. Always crowded, and some good conversation ;)

Don't worry, us members have to walk all the way down to Shilo Village to find a bank - that, or remember to take money for the cart ride. It's still a trek for us too ;)

Relating to your post above, and doing more thinking to the side... What about combining skills in some way? This is just a bit of a brainstorm, but relating to your point about making the smithing skill crammed (a downside to the huge choice of weapons we can make and wield, which is a really nice feature). For example, consider having crafting and smithing working in tandem to make types of armour? Or enchanting armour, or something, using the magic skill? Just prelim thoughts, just thought I would toss that into the melting-pot.

As one of those "old school Scapers" who mostly mumble into their beards about P2P being "newfangled", and rune armour being "out of it's prime", I agree with everything here. Lemme just pause for a second, and share a secret. I've been playing Runescape on and off for 3.5 years now. I may not have any fancy stats to boast about, or millions of riches. Infact, you could probably get my character the way it is with about 6 months or so of dedicated playing. But I've never been into the whole "maximum efficiancy" method of playing, so I've been taking my sweet time. Now, onto the idea. I too remember when rune was something to be prized. It was a symbol of wealth, and power. Of course, back then, you could name all of the lvl 99 smithers. Or even before then, when the various rune items were being discovered and brought into the game (now how long ago was that? :|). Everything that is now taken for granted was worth a lot more. Lets see what I remember... Rune 2h was 1 Million at it's BEST back then. I remember my friend paid 4 million for one, only to die in the wilderness. He then saved up another 3.5 million for another one :|. Any other rune item that had to be smithed was right up there over 100k. Hell, at one point, people would trade rune items for party hats. Rune mediums used to be 32k - that was the standard price, and everyone knew it. Thats why I was so shocked to have my return to runescape a month or so ago to find everyone flogging them for 10k. Rune large used to be 80k+ IIRC. It was back then that I started aspiring to be a miner/smither, to reap the rewards that it held. When I left, dragon was for the very elite, and RS2 was being mumbled about. Popped on a few times for a month or so every 4 months or so, so I'm still reasonably up-to-date... Now, onto the suggestion - Excellent idea! I remember finding tip.it and being so shocked at how dead-ended the rune smithing table was. It was like once you got to lvl 99, half the table just fell into your lap. I wouldn't complain at seeing the whole smithing table re-written, having some items made at the same level of lower levels (e.g. at lvl 1 you may make bronze daggers/axes/etc). Clump items together into like catagories. Warhammer/Battle Axe/2h-Sword made at the same level. That would free up a few spaces. I wouldn't mind seeing some new-style armours, that, whilst not having stats like rune or dragon (it would be silly to cheapen dragon armour), but along the lines of dragon armour. It LOOKS different. Horns on the medium helm for example. Add in some unique bonuses. For example, one is good for rangers to use, as it's a light-weight style of metal armour, but it's different to the dragon-hide armour. Obviously the hide armour would be better in some ways, but not others. Or, a new type of melee armour, that whilst not giving as good a defence in melee, or a slight reduction to range defence, it stops being a negative magical defence. Jagex and anyone interested in discussing it needs to continue to think laterally. We can't keep having new armour/weapons etc introduced that is better than the old stuff, otherwise the levels would need to be extended (and we all know about that being silly, not to mention a poor solution). It has to be better than the exisiting stuff in some ways, with new drawbacks. Comments?

As one of the new additions to the P2P list in Jagex's files, I am very impressed by all of the new features. The best one? Clues. Easily. For example, I'm training against the Thugs in the Edgeville Dungeon, trying to get herbs to train up herblore. I'm starting to get a bit bored, and I kill one of them and get a clue. I had heard to treasure trails before, and wonder if this is part of it. After following all the clues, looking at the maps of the world, thumbing through the guide when I get stuck, etc, I finally get my prize. Black full helm, and some other things. Not the biggest haul, put it that way. Clould have made more money from just mining coal that same time. BUT! I had the anticipation of the hunt, and the final treausre, I got to problem solve, run around the world a lot (laughing when at one point, I only had to go about 10 steps from one clue to another), ask people for help, share stories, etc... Sure the end reward wasn't the greatest, but that was only a level 1 clue. And it all came from some lvl10 critter in lvl 1 wildy. Not bad. I am really enjoying doing clues, as they are a nice surprise when I find them, and they always make for a fun diversion to training. The next one I got was from killing a Jogre doing the "Grand Tree" quest. Got some addy stuff that time. The clues are like mini-quests, and thats the best bit about them. They are really different from the style of most of the things in Runescape up until that point, and I am very pleased. Sorry for the rambling, I'm sure if every new member did this about their favorite new feautre, we would be knee deep in newbies riding a wave of molten spam (hows that for a nice mental image - ewwwwww), but thought I would have a share moment :). Cheers gang!

Clues, and most of the new items gained from them are members only. The armour and the boots (?) can be sold to F2P players though.

The only random event I *didn't* get while F2P was the strange plant IIRC. Well, the only random event appropriate to a F2P environment (for example, I didn't get the Watchman either, but thats because F2P can't theive :P)

Being an Aussie, I find that my peak time is the best time to play, because the folks on the other side of the world are all a snoozin. You're right, it is a lot more fun than playing in the morning, which is the peak time of RS when I play. Crowded is only fun when you're trying to buy/sell something :P.