warri0r45

Not to bad. First year uni was alright.

I'm not one to buy into the conspiracy theories, especially a nice and vague one like this. I might get a chip if they become widespread and have benefits. Just something that could push us into the cashless society would be good in my opinion. I think they're doing something similar but you just swipe your phone or something. I think, however, the chip could avoid some potential identity frauds. I hardly see society turning to "Jack the Ripper" dismemberment crimes to steal people's identity because you hardly hear of kidnappings to prise bank numbers out of people do you? Edit: I'd personally be more cautious about this in relation to not getting a chip.

It's summer here so I'm going to watch cricket. Next match tomorrow Aus vs. Kiwis at 1:00.

Ok, what about people of no faith who couldn't care less with the Christian symbolism in Narnia? You don't think you're over reacting here a little? The idea that you would at all focus on the writer of these books/movies and his views on despising religion and bypass the actual content says to me you're over reacting big time. Unless someone is actually acting out their views in a way I dispise, I ain't going to boycott their works. This guy has an opinion that rattles some cages and some people want to boycott his work because of it? That to me is just a weak attitude. Rise above your different opinions and see his work for what it is. Going by this thread, it sounds pretty good. Read the ending, please. :) The boycott is over IF I can forget the symbolism and just enjoy it as a movie/book. I'm not the one actually doing the over reacting. I'm just here to hear other's opinions. I framed the boycott part more generally. I think you were definitely over reacting with the idea that this guy is taking away a parents rights. That could only possibly be true if you forced them or their children to view his work, but it's up to the parents to buy it and what kids are exposed to or not is the full responsibility of the parent. Unless you want a sterile utopian society with nothing but one view on absolutely everything, it's the parents fault if they find their kids playing a Cannibal Corpse CD, a porno DVD or a heretic's books or movies. That these unsightly things exist takes away no one's rights yet if they were banned, it would take away the rights of a band to make their music, a pornographic actor's rights to work and a heretic's rights to express his alternate opinion to a religious mainstream. Opressive dictatorship anyone?

Depends how you define 'brutal'. I'm just saying... something like hammer smashed face by Cannibal Corpse would be more 'brutal' to me. But aside from that, I didn't mind it at all really.

Best: Subway. Mmmmmmm. Worst: For some reason I woke up at 11:45. Half the day was gone :( (I know, poor me huh?)

Ok, what about people of no faith who couldn't care less with the Christian symbolism in Narnia? You don't think you're over reacting here a little? The idea that you would at all focus on the writer of these books/movies and his views on despising religion and bypass the actual content says to me you're over reacting big time. Unless someone is actually acting out their views in a way I dispise, I ain't going to boycott their works. This guy has an opinion that rattles some cages and some people want to boycott his work because of it? That to me is just a weak attitude. Rise above your different opinions and see his work for what it is. Going by this thread, it sounds pretty good.

Damn, sounds like the OP was making a mountain out of a mole hill. What a non-issue.

What planet have you been living on? We've one 13 (or maybe 14) straight test victories. We won the latest World Cup this year. And we only got knocked out of the 20/20 WC in the Semies (iirc). Bloody oath. We've been kicking [wagon] in cricket lately. You only need to look back to the start of this year for the end of some of the most brilliant cricket careers and a 5-0 whitewash of the poms in the ashes, the first time that's happened since the 1920s. Add to that a world cup win, a couple more tests to add the the dominant streak in that form of the game and we're dominating. And yeah, last night was awesome. Too bad the man of the match, Symo, reinjured that ankle. :( Ahh well, we'll still wipe the floor with you Kiwi's in the Cappell-Hadlee series. :P

Just to nitpick, with no matter, there would be no temperature, be it 0K or 1,000,000K. Reason being there's no matter particles to measure the average kinetic energy of.

I don't see anything particularly scary about not existing some day. I don't think I want to exist forever. I think that prospect is kind of scary to me. I need my eternal rest. But yeah, it's not as if I'd actually be resting, I just wouldn't be. Like people have said, it's hard to comprehend.

I hardly see how putting your opinion out there, especially in the form something you actually have to choose to buy, infringes on anyones rights be they parents or not. But then there seems to be the allegation that this guy is putting his opinion in his work subtly with malevolent intentions and targeting it at impressionable children in order to infringe on their religious beliefs. I've got no idea how much truth is in that or exactly what the target audience is because I've not seen his work. My opinion is that no one should influence young, naieve children to one religious view or another (including atheistic or anti-religious views), including parents and including anyone aiming material at younger, naieve kids (I'm talking actual indoctrination type stuff here). In this sense I agree with what Errdoth posted. Just to cover my behind, I'm not saying don't teach your kid morals, you can obviously do this without saying a man 2000 years ago was divine, a god created the world in six days 6000 years ago, religious people are all cooky nuts who don't know what they're talking about or everything religious people claim is wrong, etc.

That's sad. :( I can't say I can relate because no one close to me has ever died but all the best in getting through this tough time. I'd probably say just be open with how you feel to your family and feel free to let it all out. I'm sure your family will understand.

Yeah, I understand that. I'm just saying that I think universal meaning is better :P. (because it isn't subject to change at will). Lol, nice one. I guess my response would be that a creator of all life on earth would be even more authoritative on your life than you, given the God I believe in. But why do you revel in that fact, other than the freedom of it? Your ideals and standards for your life and wont to change at your every beck and call! You can devote your life to feeding the hungry, but as soon as that first fat paycheck comes in, you can just change the purpose of your life to accumulating as many material goods as possible. Don't you think that's kind of lame? :P Oh and thanks for the good response. And sorry about overreacting in my prev. post, it was 1:30am and I had a lot of adrenaline pumping yet from a hockey game I just played :P. Ahk looks like it's all good. :) Yeah, I'm not debating that my personal views on my own meaning/purpose are universal or anything out there like that, I'm just saying that I can have them. As I say, your opinion that a universal meaning is better than one I can form for myself (and that as a result is very meaningful and specific to my drive in life) is just one I don't share. I can accept that we see this point differently. :P (1) You keep using examples of materialistic things being meaningful and somehow important. Since you and I don't have the same beliefs I can't argue things that are divine to prove my point. So I used a materialistic example, ideas, to prove my point. I never said that Atheist don't have ideas, Atheism is an idea. (2) You fail to understand there are more details to a belief than the definition of the word. Christian, the word, means "Christ Ones", it doesn't even mention God. You can't argue an entire set of beliefs on one word. Atheism is the base of what Atheists believe. Its not the only thing. Atheists don't believe in universal purpose. Why is it hard to come to grips with this? (3) No, I just don't understand why you don't understand your own beliefs. But if you do understand them I don't understand why you can't explain them well. (4) I don't want this higher purpose. People who believe in a God accept that there is a higher purpose. (1) I've listed some things that are meaningful to me twice in this thread. Not even one of them I can think of was materialistic. I'm not going to bother looking back to get the exact list right, you can do that yourself if you care to actually see what I see as meaningful to me in my life. (2) Christianity involves more than a lack of belief in one notion. Atheism is a lack of belief in god and anything else isn't atheism. Atheists can add in thier own views to form their worldview. But I think I've stressed this point enough. Yes, atheists most likely won't believe in a universal or divine purpose. My Buddhism example was a possible way to demonstrate the exception to the rule. Of course, all this is totally secondary to the fact that atheists can and do form their own personal meaning and purposes in their lives. (3) So we atheists can have a meaning or purpose without your god? You totally brushed past the point. I tried my best to explain my points. If you're genuine in your complaint then show me something (as in quote it) which you can not understand. Your overarching and ambiguous complaint isn't moving me. (4) And what is it that you like about having this higher purpose? Actually don't worry. To be honest I'm getting tired of trying to rehash a dead point that went nowhere in the first place.

(1) I'm just saying, if God exists, then universal meaning and purpose exists. I didn't say that I would be 100% sure that I know what it is. What kind of a response is this? Fine; you, in assigning meaning to your life, are just like the art critics who are trying to assign meaning to something they did not create. You knew exactly what I was getting at (I hope). (1) Rebdragon adressed this. (2) How am I like the art critics? They assign some authoratitive meaning on the girls drawing yet to the father it means so much more - it has a personal meaning to him and it came from something his daughter gave him. So there exists the overarching, 'universal' meaning and the personal meaning. Why, exactly, can't I provide meaning for myself? Edit: presuming your argument refers to something you previously posted about not being able to assign meaning to something more universal/authoritative than you, how would I be more universal or authoritative than myself? Besides, in the example you gave I'm sure the university student could say what the university course means to him personally. This dosen't make what meaning he assigns to it true in a universal sense but it dosen't take away from the fact he assigned his own meaning to it personally. Likewise in assigning my own meaning and purpose to my life (neglecting that I can't possibly see how I'm more universal or authorative than myself), I'm in no way expecting you to swollow that it's 'universally true', yet merely that I can and do impose my own meaning and purpose in my life. Whether in your opinion this isn't ideal is irrelevant. I've already said I revel in the fact I can form my own purpose and meaning in my life and in my opinion I like it this way.

No, there is no universal purpose to our lives and existence- each one is unique. The fact that we all don't have the purpose does not make it impossible for each of us to have individual purposes. Well, I'm a boring guy. Sue me. Exactly. (1) And you fail to see that not everyone believes as you do. (2) There may or may not be an 'ultimate' purpose for life, yet there is personal purpose and meaning. You yourself have such personal purpose and meaning with your very much personal faith in god and the afterlife. That you think it is universal is part of your personal view to see purpose and meaning in the way you do. There is no way you can demonstrably show anyone that what you believe is true, therefore it is at best your personal view, is it not? I reiterate - I can recognise that this is how you personally see yourself as having purpose. Can you recognise the same of me and my view? (3) That my personal purposes and meanings that I place on my life are mundane or 'don't even matter' is your personal opinion. Again, I simply disagree. (4) Let me guess, you think an atheists purpose or meaning can only be centered on power or money? Wrong, try again mate. (5) You don't understand because you fail to see not everyone sees things through your world view. Atheism at it's core is not a belief that there is no higher purpose - it's a lack of belief in god. This still opens the door for the possibility of 'higher' purpose, even if it comes from a Buddhist's Nirvana. Also, atheism is not a faith. Just to add and/or reiterate, Plectrum fails to realise that those mundane things might not be so mundane to others - those things that he feels 'don't even matter' may mean the world to someone in the here and now. Again, some theist's god-centered view equates god with purpose and eveything else with 'second best' or 'mundane'. That's wholly your view and you need to recognise not everyone sees things this way. Atheism dosen't posit there is no purpose or meaning to our existance - atheists are free to fill thier lives with purpose and meaning wherever they see fit. The language you use such as 'higher/ultimate purpose' and 'boring/mundane' to justify your view as the only one or best one is typical. I put it to you that my ultimate puropse is to fill this life with purpose and drive to be the best person I can be and this is anything but boring or mundane to me. There's no right or wrong in this argument. You just can't stand that an atheist can have purpose and meaning without your god can you? Again, Plectrum fails to answer my questions. To reiterate - why do you want this 'higher' purpose? For what reasons?

Because God is a source of absolute truth and meaning. Nothing in your atheistic viewpoint can give an absolute purpose to things. Of course. That you can envisage and have faith in something as a source of absolute truth and meaning is uncompelling to me, but IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m happy for you nonetheless. Furthermore, I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t need absolutes to see meaning or purpose in my life. As Satenza has said, meaning comes to each of us individually. Whether you think itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s absolute is irrelevant to the fact that itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s you who garners faith in this concept for your own personal meaning, including the notion of it being absolute making it more meaningful in your eyes. (1) Meaning "comes" to you? How does meaning "come" to you? No, you "come" to your meaning. You choose it. Making it completely pointless because your "purpose" and "meaning" in life are as fleeting as your hunger or emotion. As soon as something is subjective, it becomes temporary, because opinions and feelings are fickle things. I find an encompassing purpose that is wont to change at any time "uncompelling". (2) Exactly! The two year old's picture is meaningful because the creator of the picture gives it the meaning. Just like the creator of the universe would give it meaning, if there's no creator, there's no one to give it meaning! That is EXACTLY my point. In you assigning meaning to the universe, you are taking the position of the art critics trying to assign meaning to something they did not create. (1) And you don't choose your faith? You choose to believe in a universal meaning. Your belief is not objective no matter how much you'd like to think it is or sidestep the fact that it is in actuality a belief you have and a way of making your life have meaning in your own personal way. On the uncompelling point, we're at a difference of opinion. My purpose may very well be changable, but I can choose it for myself and I don't see this as pointless like you do. I'm not going to repeat that I see your view as uncompelling because we'll just end at the same difference of opinion. (2) Good thing I don't assign meaning to the universe then.

So atheists don't have a driving force? I disagree with your view. If a driving force is limited to this life then so what? Who are you to say that you can't have a drive or determination if your focus is on this life alone? Your view that there can only be purpose if there is a 'higher' purpose is one I don't share. By the way you didn't answer any of my questions. Why do you want this 'higher' purpose? For what reasons? What would you say if I then applied all that to your god. Let's say he must have a higher purpose as you seem to like to argue. Then there must be another higher being still above him. Apply the same consideration yet again and again ad nauseum -> Infinite regress. Sorry, I'd much rather focus on the here and now with my drive in life. It's much more fulfilling to me personally. :) Edit: Your purpose seems to be focused on consequences. Mine is in the moment, i.e. this life. You say what was the purpose of feeding the hungry of the world if the world implodes soon after? There was purpose at the time and any occurance thereafter dosen't change that fact. If you like to think that there is only purpose to life based on supernatural consequences then I simply don't agree with you. I can recognise that this is how you personally see yourself as having purpose. Can you recognise the same of me and my view?

Because God is a source of absolute truth and meaning. Nothing in your atheistic viewpoint can give an absolute purpose to things. Of course. That you can envisage and have faith in something as a source of absolute truth and meaning is uncompelling to me, but IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m happy for you nonetheless. Furthermore, I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t need absolutes to see meaning or purpose in my life. As Satenza has said, meaning comes to each of us individually. Whether you think itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s absolute is irrelevant to the fact that itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s you who garners faith in this concept for your own personal meaning, including the notion of it being absolute making it more meaningful in your eyes. IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m curious ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ why do you only see something as meaningful or purposeful when itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s 'absolute'? (If this is a straw man IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ll gladly retract it which would then force you to concede that an atheist can have purpose or meaning in their life irrespective of it being 'absolute') If a bunch of art critics (or indeed anyone and everyone) badmouth a 2 year old girl's picture drawn for her father, does that make it unmeaningful or purposeless? Of course not. ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s incredibly meaningful for the father irrespective of any 'absolute' meaning perceived and dictated by others. In the same way, I can form my own meaning and purpose that is incredibly profound to me irrespective of yours or any other theist's views on what constitutes meaning or purpose. Because God is a source of absolute truth and meaning. Nothing in your atheistic viewpoint can give an absolute purpose to things. Its irrelevant as to whether meaning is absolute or truthful, it seems absurd for an atheist to say that seperate meanings to life can at the same time be bound together and be valid for all. Infact it sounds absurd for anyone to say that. Which leaves us with whether something externally places a meaning to our life which is possible, or whether we place meaning on our own lives. Either way we both discover that meaning internally. You discovered your faith internally, and therefore your meaning to life. Just as I may discover my meaning to life internally. Whether we like it or not that meaning does exist individuallly to ourselves. You may have faith that your meaning to life applies to everyone, however you are in the same sense doing what you said was absurd. Taking something individual and applying it to the universal. Well said. You need to learn meaning is a personal thing and not necessarily absolute ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ ask an Australian whether our country winning the water polo world championship is meaningful to him and he could very well say no, yet ask him whether us winning the Cricket World Cup was meaningful to him and he could very well say yes, bloody oath. What makes you think meaning to a theist equals the one and only meaning? Atheists have many alternate viewpoints on meaning and purpose in their lives. Let me ask you something ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ why do you believe in god or an afterlife and how does doing so give you meaning? For your own personal reward? Then there is no difference between yours and some atheist perspectives. It gives you comfort? Then there is no difference between yours and some atheist perspectives. What exactly motivates you to believe in god and an afterlife. How exactly does it give your life purpose/meaning? Because you have something to live for? Then there is no difference between yours and some atheist perspectives. Because you want to have a relationship with god? Then there is no difference between yours and some atheist perspectives (substituting 'god' with a loved one). Come on theists, cough up. What exactly motivates you to believe and how does belief in god and an afterlife give you purpose or meaning that an atheist canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t have in some different context? It seems that atheists and theists alike find purpose in much the same way ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ they find something profound and meaningful to them personally. That theists say god gives them some greater meaning is playing entirely into the hands of this view ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ you all perceive your chosen meaning as dictated by god and conclude this as the most personally meaningful to you. Likewise, an atheist will perceive his/her chosen meaning and purpose independent of the dictates of another and conclude this as the most personally meaningful to them (I find the search for my very own meaning and purpose true to myself and independant of anyone else very meaningful). Correct, atheism doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t affirm nor does it reject the possibility of purpose or meaning in life, however an atheist can do just that, for themselves, independent of your personal theistic answers (which are often uncompelling to an atheist). That last sentence seems to characterize some theistic perceptions of meaning perfectly. "ItÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s just not meaningful unless itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s meaningful according to me and my religion." No one tells you your life purpose, you decide it yourself. Usually some people choose it from the obstacles and growth they've endured. For example, the father who grew up in a broken home who is battling to raise his 3 kids, eat, work, sleep and die. His life purpose was to raise his kids better than his own father raised him. Who decided that you decide your own purpose? For one, I decide that I decide my own purpose. Who are you to stop me? You decide that god gives you purpose so I canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t see why I canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t decide that I give myself purpose. What I choose is thus purposeful to me personally and I find that fulfilling. If you like to believe that life is only purposeful if that purpose is dictated by a god (which is what you decided, thus you decided what gives you purpose, so instead of deciding your own purpose, you decide who else does, i.e. god) then good for you, I really donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t mind. Not everyone thinks this.

Woah there.. don't get all fussy at me, I was only curious as to what atheists thought of death. Nihilisticism vs. Atheism? I honest didn't know there was a difference.. Perhaps you didn't know the the difference between atheism and nihilism because of your very god-centered view of things. To you no god means no meaning, right? An afterlife would make your life have meaning? Atheism is an absence of god-belief. Nihilism is a position that states life or being has no meaning or purpose. So from that I can only assume that to you, lack of god-belief means we think there is no meaning in life, which could only mean you think meaning in life only comes from god. Ok, my turn to ask a question: Why is it that you only see life as meaningful if there is an afterlife and/or a supernatural being who dictates what that meaning is? You don't see the posibility of seeing meaning in living a life of charity, empathy, compassion, friendship, family, art and love? You don't see that we can form meaning ourselves independant of belief in something higher? (this probably looks harsh but please, I'm not trying to get stuck into you.. too much :P )

But if all the things in this life will most certainly fade away soon after your death, then what's the point of living? All the work you did in this life will only last for a very short amount of time... Why even bother in the first place? If this is the only chance we get then all the more reason to give your life a meaning and make something of it. This may sound dumb, but why? What reason do you have to give your life a meaning other than for the sake of giving your life a meaning? I'm a human being. We tend to like to think we have purpose and meaning. I'm not a nihilist so I'll look for meaning and joy in my life where I see fit. But isn't it all simply a grand illusion? It's like your lieing to yourself about the black abyss that waits at the end... Nothing in this life will, at least to you, matter after you die. Doesn't this make you somewhat afraid of death? It matters to me while I live. You're arguing an attitude which isn't mine. And no, I'm not afraid of death. You make it sound as if atheists are nihilistic, unstable shells of human beings.

But if all the things in this life will most certainly fade away soon after your death, then what's the point of living? All the work you did in this life will only last for a very short amount of time... Why even bother in the first place? If this is the only chance we get then all the more reason to give your life a meaning and make something of it. This may sound dumb, but why? What reason do you have to give your life a meaning other than for the sake of giving your life a meaning? I'm a human being. We tend to like to think we have purpose and meaning. I'm not a nihilist so I'll look for meaning and joy in my life where I see fit.

But if all the things in this life will most certainly fade away soon after your death, then what's the point of living? All the work you did in this life will only last for a very short amount of time... Why even bother in the first place? If this is the only chance we get then all the more reason to give your life a meaning and make something of it.

It certainly implies it. What point does atheism give to the universe? Atheism is not something. It's a lack of something - god belief, and that's the extent of what atheism entails on a base level. Atheism assigns no point to anything nor does it say anything is pointless (so what you quoted is accurate), however atheists can assign their own meaning to things. Exactly, atheism is a lack of meaning. Things cannot assign meaning to things that are more universal/authoritative than them. For instance, a student cannot assign his/her own meaning to a course because the student is within the course - the meaning must be given by someone outside of the course (the university, or professor). Just like an atheist cannot assign their meaning to the universe because the meaning/point of the universe cannot be decided by someone within the universe. It must be assigned by someone outside of the universe, and atheism all but destroys the possibility of there being something outside the universe, and thus destroys any possible meaning for the universe. Lacking belief in something dosen't destroy meaning or the possibility of it. It's going to be there or it's going to be possible irrespective of who believes in it or not. Either way atheism dosen't assign any meaning to the universe so I don't really disagree with that.

Hehe... Go Australia's holiday system! And... How much longer do you have to use that sig for? It's getting on my nerves. :x Its getting on your nerves? But it says in your location that your from Queensland! :shock: Anyway the deal was anyone could rent out my sig space for 37 days (whoever gets in first). Warrior was the first to apply with the below sig on December 1st. It comes off on the 6th January. Can't wait for that day... :pray: You mean there are two cockroaches that are getting their knickers in a knot? Hahahahaha. This is a good thing. :P (he must be a NSW ex-pat, no Queenslander could possibly be annoyed at such epic Darren Lockyer win)