oxidation83

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but I didn't have the time to read through almost 30 pages of this thread. You point to the supposed origin of Dragon weapons on Frenaskrae as being contradictary to them being made by the Dragonkin. What's to say that they aren't also from that realm? It is described as being a place of eternal war and violence, which seems to fit them perfectly. Also, the dialogue from the end of A Soul's Bane mentions an ancient civilization worshipping a god there meny years ago. To me, this points both to the Dragonkin and Zaros, as we know from the Digsite quest that other Zarosian artifacts have been found in that general area.

Teleporting has always been a part of PvP. If you want to prevent it, get Teleblock (they brought that back btw), or PK in the wildy where teleporting is still prevented. King is right too, gf walking from Varrok to Ardy...

Intersting read. As someone who's never really enjoyed PvP and never trained a decent pure it's nice to finally read something like this wriutten by an articulate person. However, I do have a few bones to pick about some of your assertions. 1: People w/ Defense are stupid and pures are smart. Not so. Stupidity runs rampant among all players regardless of which skills they choose to or not to train :( 2: Pures are hated by the community at large because they dominate. Not really. Sure some people can be bitter about being beaten by a character specifically designed for PvP, but the real reason they are hated is that the majority of the vocal ones are arrogant and disrespectful. They typically respond to any arguement with "id pwn u" or something equallly irrelevant. They do not take time to help players, but rather ridicule them for asking a question. ***I am not saying that all pures behave this way. I've met quie a few who are friendly. I'm just saying that the majoriuty of vocal pures I've come across act like that.***

Pics added in the Dharoking section. I haven't been able to experiment w/ non-Unicorn setups due to rl drama. Once I get that settled I'll get back to workikng it out.

Pretty sure Void and Salve won't stack. So you're much better off using Proselyte. As for using a GS, they are definitely slower through normal combat, but as you get into percentage multiplier bonuses, they do close the gap. After trying out god knows how mwny setups as Waterfiends, I learned that with normal gear, even V Flail is better than a Godsword there. Once you get a Black Mask or Void Melee in the picture, GS is about equal to SS/ZS. Add in Piety and the Godsword is actually faster. Not saying that it will hold true here, just that you shouldn't dismiss it as slower until you've tried it.

@Hummingbird: THat;s exactly where I heard about both DHing methods. I didn;t want to link to them though, because they are on a different site and I do not want to give advice on something that I haven't personally ganed a decent bit of experience in doing. @total: D Jay pretty much summed up what I hate about the CT. There are far too many randoms there that teleport you and cause monsters to become aggressive again. With maxed combat and a Steel Titan it might be worth it, but seeing as I have neither I'm not going to be giving advice on that.

Thanks guys :) Dharoking section partially complete and posted. More to come as I get pics, add in details that slipped my mind, and test out non-Unicorn methods.

Before the old forums got nuked I had that listed. It's one of the things that got lost when i switched to a previous version. I'll add it back in soon. Also, as I've been unable to locate Qeltar's Dharoking guide, I'll be adding a section on that over the next few days.

The problem with that is that fiends hit a lot and you spend a ton of time healing, so you won't be able to use the alternate helm and weapon much at all.

I'll admit I don't know the exact mechanics of how Void works, but my recommendations are based on actual kills per hour data that I collected while training there. So whatever it does, the Void set makes a GS into a good weapon there, and it gets even better when using Piety. As for Berserker Necklace and Obby Mace, it's just strictly slower than Void and a SS/ZS. You give up a gigantic amount of defense, prayer, and accuracy for an awful weapon. Do not ever use that combination.

lol +1 imo summoning boosting cb is lame. how does making pouches and cojuring up spirits make u a better fighter? I have an idea for agility, mayb like armor that reduced weight (lightness boots, spottier cape) or recharges run faster or allows you to run for longer First off, Summoning is NOT a "window dressing" skill. Sure, a lot of the familiars are basically chaff, but there are a few that make the skill one of the best new ones, and certainly a whole lot more useful than original ones (firemaking anyone?) Beasts of Burden, especially the Spirit Terrorbird, are incredibly useful for farming, most gathering skills, and some bosses. Most of the Titans are pretty good PvM in multicombat areas. Unicorns are truly amazing for boss hunting and camping at monsters in single combat More to the point of the thread though, I think they really need to update old skills before creating new ones. Firemaking is almost completely useless. Smithing was obsolete years and years ago. Hunter has 2 useful products. Combat magic has been neglected to the point where it's vastly inferior to range and melee. Thieving has one useful, unique "drop". There are just too many flaws with the existing content to justify adding several new skills a year. As for increasing the level cap, 99s are already enough of a grind. I'd hate to see that worsened, not to mention the increased glut of finished products on the market that would come with it.

I really don't like this method at all. Having gone from 68-80 Summoning on these I've tried a lot of different setups, this one included. By biggest gripe is that it's just plain slow. Aside from completing a slayer task, the only reason to hunt these is fast Crimsons. Necessitating the use of the Warspear in place of weapons that have better stats and a higher speed as well as removing the ability to use a Slayer Helm are major issues. I guess it could be useful for people with <68 Summoning, but even so, I would still rather pack a lot of Pineapple Pizzas and bank more frequently. A bank trip doesn't take any more than 2 minutes. I also have a few suggestions for your methods. First off, Combat Pots are just bad. If you're going to try to save inventory slots, try Zamorak Brews. They boost your stats higher than Combat Potions and recover a random amount (~7) of prayer with each dose. With all the healing you have the loss of HP and defense are basically a non-issue. The antifire shield is just a wasted space. If you insist on completely protecting yourself from the dragonfire as you run to your spot, take a sip of Antifire and use Protect from Magic as you run through them. This works for 100% protection against "leather" dragons (or it still did several months after they changed it for metals).

I tried it after the last guy suggested it and it was terrible. You lose a gargantuan 35 defense and 20 attack points compared to Fury and the difference was immediately obvious. I had to leave early because my Unicorn just couldn't keep up with the damage I was receiving, and I was getting charms significantly slower that I do with a Sara Sword. It was just bad and I would never recommend that setup to anyone, ever.

-10 attack, and worse, -20 defense from the necklace seems pretty bad, especially since I prefer Void which has low defense to begin with, and I no longer use any protection prayers with Unicorns. That's why you test these things out for yourself. Godswords are only good if you're using Void because of the percentage multiplier.

Absolutely not. Considering that I value the supplies and time I use to accumulate them at roughly 4.5k-7.1k per crimson depending on whether I'm doing Waterfiends or Rock Lobsters.

Agreed that paying for Yews is pretty much always a bad decision (unless you want a level the next day and need all 5 to survive, then it's sort of understandable). Paying for mages though, is really a trade off of time and money. Cost of 10 Magic Seeds: 1,639k Cost of payments: 231k Expected xp w/o payments: 125,366.5 (assuming 1/10 dies) Xp w/ payments: 139,135 By paying for your mages, you get at 10% increase in earned xp for a 14% increase in cost, which equates to roughly a 2.5% increase in gp/xp. And lets face it, if you're planting mages, cost efficiency is not your #1 priority. More on topic, Calquats are still worth it at these prices in terms of gp/xp. Payments should be a total non-issue as well. Just pick 2 Poison Ivy bushes that you've planted each day and there's your payment. It's not like Poison Ivy seeds are difficult to come by and all you need is 2 of them ever.

Dharoks really only works well if you are at or very close to maxed mage and defense and have unicorns. he basic idea is to pray range and piety using unicorns to heal. It's highly effective when it works, but the fiends can get on a streak where they hit a lot and the Unicorn just can't keep up cutting trips short a bit too often for my taste. If you want to see a better explanation, Qeltar published a guide somewhere on these forums.

Ummm, you kill them in the Ancient Cavern, which is not multi...

I usually don't get good results Dharoking stuff, but I figured I'd give it a shot anyway and it worked reasonable well. I actually ended up getting ~10% more charms than I do with Void melee and Piety. However, I used about double the prayer pots making it a very high cost method

They are exactly the same except that Obby shield has +5 str bonus and 10 more Summoning defense. Comparison

Godswords do work there. It's just that I found other weapons, including Verac's Flail, to work better without Void.

I kept tabs on roughly 1.5k kills each with a Berserker and a Wealth. There was no statistically significant difference in the quality or quantity of charms between the two data sets. I've read the same exact thing from one other person who kept a similar log as well. Conclusion: Ring of Wealth does not effect charm drops at Waterfiends.

Added an entire section outlining 2 distinct strategies for people with 88+ Summoning. The lower defense of Void is not a problem for either method - that's what I wore when developing them.

Yea, just got done a 3 hour trip. Zil's AI has not changed one bit. That guy is completely wrong.

I'm not so sure about that, toast. I just got back from Zil and although it was hard to get a good box with all the lag, I do remember her spinning once or twice. He could be right though, it was hard to tell. Guess we'll just have to wait a few days for people to download everything so we can get a decent trip.