oxidation83

I had nothing better to do, so against my better judgment I did retest the speed of the anchor. It is exactly the same as a godsword, which makes it rubbish. Flail is still a much better choice.

Alright, I actually rechecked the speed of the anchor. It is exactly the same as a godsword. I guess the wonky animation threw me off when I said it was slower. That, however, changes nothing. Flail is still a much more effective cheap weapon, and there's still no way you'd ever want to use it. Obviously if you have these on task, you'll want a black mask or slayer helm. That basically goes without saying. Also, like Laura said, Armadyl lowers your attack bonus. You're really better off using Karil's.

You can try it, but I wouldn't recommend it without access to higher-level healing familiars. Even with elemental titans I wouldn't stray from the V helm/skirt, blessed top setup. If you have Unicorns, though, you have a bit more room to experiment. I've started using Arma skirt in place of V and ponies are more than able to keep up with the damage from minis.

As a "comprehensive" guide, you need information about familiars. Information which, because of your own summoning level, you are unable to provide. Again, you're flat out wrong about the anchor. Please use it in timed tests to convince yourself. Also, RoW is not speculation. I kept a log of over 1k kills with a Wealth and again with a Zerker. There was no significant difference in the amount of charms. If your personal preference is to wear inferior equipment, then I guess. Since you have both, do us all a favor and test them. I have for 4 hours each and ended up with about 4 more kills per hour with the SS. Also, the SS trains strength while the spear trains only controlled. Then until you do, stop advertising your guide as "comprehensive", because we all know that's a flat out lie. From the information you do provide, I'll guess you've done a few slayer tasks there and not much more. My guide contains over twice the information this one does and that one is far from "comprehensive". Sorry, but I'm not wasting my time and a space on my friend list to prove to myself something I've already witnessed for hours on end while fighting Waterfiends.

You, sir, have no idea what you are talking about. Anchor was never Whip speed. It was originally Longsword speed, and slowed down from there. I do not exclude people without 68 Summoning. That is the inventory I used up 'til I got Bunyips and it worked just fine. The trips were shorter but it was effective nonetheless. Each weapon listed was tested for a total of 4 hours, and number of kills recorded. I most certainly researched all of my claims thoroughly before writing this guide. Once again, I suggest you take your own advice and do research before making baseless claims and insults.

Points for effort, but this guide is nowhere near "comprehensive" as you claim. You missed the best way of killing these when not on task, Void Melee. As the last poster said, Berserker Ring, Dragon Boots and Dwarven/Neitiznot Helm are a lot better than what you've suggested. There's no mention of how to get there. This is a guide to how you kill them. Please don't make false claims. Also, before you claim that the Z Spear is better than SS, why don't you actually conduct timed tests? I did over 300 kills with each and the SS came out slightly ahead by about 4 more kills per hour. And you are flat out wrong about the Barrelchest Anchor. The thing is not the same speed as Barrows weapons. It's ungodly slow and hasn't been worth using at all since it got nerfed shortly after its release.

Not really. Cure costs 2 points for each use, doesn't grant immunity, and interrupts combat. You have to use it far too frequently for it to be useful. So yes, you still need antis even if you can use Unicorns.

Wrong. It was when it was first released. It got nerfed over a year ago and it's now incredibly slow. How about you take your own advice please. I've killed enough Waterfiends to go from 68 -> 82 Summoning and experimented with countless setups. What I posted is the result of thorough research I assure you. You, on the other hand, are still only 63 Summoning. You can't even use a Bunyip, which is nearly essential to fight these efficiently, and unless you have a massive amount of charms stocked up that you haven't used there's no way you have anywhere near the experience and amount of research required to write an original guide.

B Axe is way too slow. The main reason the SS and Z Spear are so good is that they are Whip speed. If you can't get either of those, just take Verac's Flail.

Very nicely done. I do have a few things to add though. First, on the Godswords. I recently tried out a ZGS and was truthfully less than impressed. It really was awesome when it worked, but that was maybe 30% of them time with 93 Atk, 95 Str and Piety. When it failed, it got her focused on me and completely messed up the box. Overall I'd say it actually did more harm than good. Also, with 88 Summoning, it's really worth it to bring Range pots no matter what your level. At 89 Prayer wearing a Fury instead of a Stole, I end up using maybe 5-6 restore doses per pony in a 4-man team. Rounding up, that's only 8 entire potions used over the life of 5 Unicorns, meaning that you have plenty of room for stat boosters. I also like to take a Whip for KC and minis. You get faster kills on them and don't waste supplies, especially now with the price of diamond bolts having gone up. I don't know if you mentioned it, but Zilyana doesn't use her mage attack unless she's within melee range of someone on your team. So when you're waiting for a respawn, as long as everyone is in their corner, turn your prayer off to conserve resources. You can also turn it off if she's been frozen by a ZGS spec (or Smite her just because you can :P )

I had originally posted this guide to tif before the forums got blown up and was unable to recover that version. This was taken from a different forum and wasn't kept up to date. I tried to update it as much as I could, but I'm sure I missed something.

Why Hunt Waterfiends in the first place? Simply put, they are the fastest economical means for gathering Crimson charms. They drop charms on around 90% of kills, the vast majority of them being Crimson. The only faster charm collection method I'm aware of is Ice Bursting or Barraging at Rock Lobsters, which is very expensive. Crimsons are fast xp to level on, and you can alch the pouches or trade them in for shards to offset a good chunk of the cost. Some of the pouches even sell on the Grand Exchange to people alching for mage levels or looking for cheaper shards. Sections 1. Required Levels 2. Choosing a Weapon 3. Selecting Your Armor 4. Inventories 5. Getting There 6. Fighting 7. For the 88+ Summoner 8. Dharoking *Under Construction* 9. Drop Log [hide=Required Levels]Being a fairly high leveled monster, fairly high levels are required to effectively hunt them. You must also complete the Barbarian Firemaking Training to access the Ancient Cavern. There are some in the Chaos Tunnels, but trying to fight these in multicombat is insanity, a death wish, or both. Minimum Requirements 80 Attack and Strength They have high defense and HP, you need at least this to make them worth your time. 70 Magic (80 if using Void) The higher your magic level, the better your natural magic defense. 70 Range and Defense Required to wear Karils armor (not needed if using Void). 70 Prayer Anything less and you will just be wasting Prayer Potions. Recommended 90 Attack and Strength 80 Magic (90 if using Void) 68 Summoning Bunyips are absolutely awesome here. On top of their usual awesome healing abilities, Waterfiends drop raw lobsters and sharks and the special allows you to eat them without having to cook them first.[/hide] [hide=Choosing a Weapon]Waterfiends are incredibly resistant to Slash and Stab attacks, meaning that your trusty old whip will fail if you try using it here; you need a good crushing weapon instead. After much experimentation, I have come to agree with the majority of hunters who say that the Saradomin Sword is indeed the optimum weapon for these. Its quite expensive though, so Ive come up with a list of alternatives in order of preference. The Godsword* ONLY if you are using Void Melee Pros: High attack and strength bonuses, high prayer bonus, no need for a spec weapon Cons: MUST have void melee to use it effectively, can only train strength Specs: SGS > AGS or BGS > ZGS Saradomin Sword Pros: Whip speed, high strength bonus, +2 prayer bonus Cons: fairly expensive, lower attack bonus, can only train strength Zamorakian Spear Pros: Whip speed, less expensive, higher attack bonus than SS Cons: extremely difficult to buy*, low strength bonus, can only train on controlled Verac's Flail Pros: very cheap, highest attack bonus, can train any stat, +6 prayer bonus Cons: slow speed, low strength bonus Barrelchest Anchor DO NOT USE THIS. EVER. SERIOUSLY. It's the same speed as a godsword and has worse stats. There is absolutely no reason to use this as anything other than a spec weapon. Spec Weapons: The king here is the Saradomin Godsword. Its ability to recover both HP and Prayer is put to full use fighting these. ~100m is a bit pricey for a spec weapon though. So if you arent one of the lucky few to own one, both the Granite Maul and Dragon Mace are quite effective and cheap. Realistically, you can use anything with a worthwhile spec and a crush setting, so feel free to experiment a bit. *Because the Void sets bonus is a percentage, it has a greater effect on the higher stats of a godsword than the other weapons. This makes up for the slow speed. If you dont have or cant use the void set, do not use a godsword.[/hide] [hide=Selecting Your Armor]If you have the Void Melee set, this is a place where it really shines. It has a pretty high magic defense and the full set bonus is the closest thing you can get to a Black Mask that works against everything. The magic defense isnt as high as Karils set, however, so youll need a fairly high Magic level yourself to use it effectively. This is the setup that I use, and as you might expect given its effect, I've been getting about 10% more charms per trip since I switched. Sample Void Setup If you dont have the Void set or the Magic level to use it, youll want armor that maximizes your magic defense. If you dont have Karils, get it. Black dragonhide has substantially less magic defense and is a very distant second. Sample Karil's Setup (Ignore the nooby Combat Bracelet and convince yourself that it's really Barrows Gloves.) Helm*: Dwarven Helm > Neitiznot Helm or Bearhead Neck: Fury >> All Top: Karils >> All Legs: Karils >> All Cape: Trimmed Skillcape or Fire Cape > Mage Arena God Cape Gloves: Best RFD Gloves or Combat Bracelet Ring: Berserker > Seers Boots: Dragon > Infinity The Dwarven Helm offers better defense and a Crush attack bonus while Neitiznot offers a Prayer and Strength bonus. Fury and Karils are so much better than Glory and Black dhide that its really not worth considering going without them. Im going to assume that if youre training Summoning you have a good bit of cash at your disposal or have these items already. Use a Berserker Ring if you have it, or Seers if you dont. Failing that, take a Ring of Life. After keeping detailed statistics Ive concluded that Ring of Wealth is pretty much useless. Dragon Boots offer a strength bonus while Infinity offer better defense. In general, offense is better than defense. Ive tried using the full Guthan method and didnt like it very much. Using Piety, you suck down potions faster and dont really get any more charms. *Thanks to Laura0077 for suggesting the Dwarven Helm and Cantristenon for the Bearhead.[/hide] [hide=Inventories]The inventories are different based on your summoning level. If you already have 68, you'll be able to use Bunyips to make your trip last about twice as long. Inventory for the 88+ Summoner See section below for inventories and strategies. Inventory for the 68-87 Summoner Spec Weapon 3 Pineapple Pizzas 8 Prayer Potions 2 Super Attack 2 Super Strength Games Necklace 1-dose Summoning Potion 2 Bunyip Pouches Also bring about 50 scrolls if you dont have a SGS. Once summoned, your familiar will stay out for the duration of its timer regardless of whether or not you have any summoning points left. When you need to use your 2nd pouch, just take 1 dose of Summoning Potion and summon it. Inventory for No Healing Familiar Spec weapon 1 Super Attack 1 Super Strength Games Necklace 4 Prayer Potions 16 Pineapple Pizzas 4 Salmon/Trout/Tuna The lower healing food is meant to be used quickly to clear room for charms and other drops. Theres a mini-obelisk just north of the Games Necklace teleport spot to recharge your Summoning. Also, as you will be running past a Brutal Green Dragon, you might want to bring an Anti-dragon Shield. I just put on Protect from Magic as this offers protection from the dragons mage attack and partial defense against its dragonbreath. *If you are using food to heal, it would be a good idea to take a sip of Antifire Potion in the bank and use Protect from Magic on the way past the dragon. If you're using a Bunyip to heal you dont need to bother with the potion as any damage you take on the way in is really irrelevant. A Quick Word on Pineapple Pizzas These are really the best food you can bring here. They pack 22 HP of healing into 1 slot, are cheaper than Sharks, and are easier to make that Tuna Potatoes. Arhein on the Catherby dock will sell up to 40 Pineapples per day for a measly 2gp each. The Warriors Guild shop sells Plain Pizzas for 200gp each. All you have to do is buy some of each, cut the Pineapples into slices, and add them to the Plain Pizzas. *Thanks to totalpwnage for this useful tip.[/hide] [hide=Getting There]This is a relatively simple process. Rub your Games Necklace and head on over to the Barbarian Outpost. If youre bringing Bunyips and need to recharge your summoning points, run about a screen to the north to the mini-obelisk. To get to the cavern, go south onto the dock with the whirlpool at the end of it. Click on the whirlpool to jump in. Blue Dot - Games Necklace Teleport Spot Yellow Route - Route to mini-obelisk to recharge Summoning Points if needed Red Route - Route to the whirlpool Once inside, youll be on a safe landing with no monsters. Sip your Super Attack and Strength potions and activate Protect from Magic here. Run down the staircase and immediately to the west. Make sure you get far enough away from the dragon so that you are no longer in combat with it. Your prayer will give you partial protection from the dragonfire should he use it. Once you get to the area by the end of the arrow, stay there until the monsters are no longer aggressive. If you go away from there, you can be attacked by a skeleton with a fairly powerful melee attack.[/hide] [hide=Fighting]Waterfiends use two different attacks: range and magic. The range attack looks like a cyan arrow and the mage attack looks kind of like the Water Strike spell. Their max hit with either one is somewhere around 11-12, but they use range much more often. For that reason, youll be using the Protect from Missiles prayer and wearing the high magic defense gear outlined above. You need to make sure that your weapon is always set to crush mode. As stated earlier, they are highly resistant to other attack styles. This is especially relevant when switching between the Dragon Mace and Saradomin Sword or Zamorakian Spear. As youre bringing 1 dose of stat boosters for every prayer potion, take a sip of these every time you start a new prayer pot; dont wait until they completely run out.[/hide] [hide=For the 88+ Summoner]If you have access to Unicorns, there are really two viable ways to fight these depending on personal preference. You can either take the economical route, which is a bit slower, or use Piety and increase both speed and cost. Economical Method Inventory 4 Super Attack 4 Super Strength 8 Prayer Potions 1 Summoning Potion (at least 2 doses) 3 Unicorn Stallion Pouches ~400 Healing Aura scrolls Games Necklace Fighting Unicorns don't heal quite enough to just not pray the entire time. You don't have to pray the whole time either. So, if you have enough of your spec bar to use a scroll and you're near full health, turn range prayer off. Try to take a sip of your stat boosters about every 10 minutes. I find it helpful to use your familiar's timer to keep track. Fast Charms Method ***In order to make this method possible, you need at least 90+ Defense and Magic.*** Inventory 1 Super Attack 1 Super Strength 1 Saradomin Brew ~100 Healing Aura scrolls 1 Super Restore 11 Prayer Potions 4 Shark or Pineapple Pizza 1 Unicorn Stallion pouch Games Necklace 1 dose each: Saradomin Brew, normal Restore, Super Attack, Super Strength Fighting This method is a radical departure from what I've mentioned so far. You will not be using any protection prayers at all. Instead, you'll be relying on a combination of Saradomin Brews, Piety, and your Unicorn. The Brew is mainly there in place of a Super Defense; it's not really a source of healing. While at the bank before you begin, withdraw the entire inventory shown above. Take 1 dose each of the Sara Brew, Restore, Super Attack/Strength in that order and deposit the empty vials or remaining potion, then head out as normal. Once you get there, run past the Brutal Green with Mage prayer on as usual, but once you get far enough away, flip that off and activate Piety while your fighting them. Re-boost your stats once every 10 minutes: Sara Brew, then Super Restore, then Super Attack and Strength. Use your familiar's timer to gauge when to re-pot. Most of the time, your pony is able to keep up with damage from Waterfiends, but every once in a while, they go on a streak where they take off 30 or so HP in just a few hits. When they do that, use your Sharks or Pineapple Pizzas for healing; do NOT use your brew to heal up unless you have no other choice. In addition to the food that you bring, you can count on Waterfiends dropping 3-5 cooked Sharks over the course of the trip. Speed Comparison Using the normal methods, I can get about 75 Crimsons per hour. Using the Piety method, I get around 90 per hour, an increase of roughly 20%. That increased speed comes at a price though. You'll use roughly triple the amount of prayer potions per charm.[/hide] [hide=Dharoking]*Credits to Qeltar for first suggesting the method.* The main advantage to this method is speed. It's significantly faster than even piety with Void and a Godsword. Of course there is a tradeoff. You need to use both Piety and Prtection prayers, making it expensive. Also, unlike most things fought with Dharok's, you will still be taking a decent amount of damage. Still, it is, in my opinion, the best way to fight them. Also, (supposedly) it can be done faster without a Unicorn than with one. That said, I still need to test the non-Unicorm version before making any concrete claims or posting a setup. Gear Helm: Dharok's Neck: Fury >> All Top: Dharok's Legs: Dharok's Weapon: Dharok's Greataxe Cape: Trimmed Skillcape > Fire Cape > Untrimmed Skillcape/Obsidian Cape Gloves: Mithril+ RFD Gloves > Combat Bracelet Ring: Berserker > Explorer Boots: Dragon > White Obviously, the full Dharok's set is required for this. As always, Fury is miles ahead of Glory. In this case, I would advise a Trimmed Skillcape over Fire Cape for the extra prayer bonus. You need to use both Piety and protection prayers at all times and therefore it drains very, very fast. Inventory w/ Unicorn Stallion Teletab ~100 Healing Aura Scrolls Games Necklace Unicorn Stallion Pouch 2 Saradomin Brews 2 Super Restores 2 Super Strengths 2 Super Attacks 14 Prayer Potions 2 Pineapple Pizzas While still at the bank, take 1 sip each of Sara Brew, normal Restore, and pure set, then bank the remaining doses/vials before withdrawing the final inventory and setting out. The Brews are there primarily for the defense boost. Do not use them for Healing unless absolutely necessary. When fighting, use Protect from Ranged even with your high defense, that is the attack that does the most damage. If you even suggest using Protect from Magic I will sick mutated sea bass on you. The key to getting fast charms here is to minimize the slow attack speed. That means potting, eating, and collecting drops between attacks. Try to find an area where there are about 3 of them clustered together to maximize speed. Their max hit is 11, but because of the delay in using scrolls, you'll need to use a scroll once you hit about 15 HP. Using this method I'm able to get 115-120 Crimsons per hour including banking trips inclusing bank trips. Inventory w/o Unicorns *Coming Soon*[/hide] [hide=Drop Log]Cumulative Charm Drops Waterfiends Killed: 918 Charms: 104 Gold, 41 Green, 695 Crimson, 21 Blue Charm Drop Rate*: 94% overall, 76% Crimson Trip 1 (Ring of Wealth) Waterfiends Killed: 153 Charms: 17 Gold, 7 Green, 113 Crimson, 5 Blue Runes: 552 Water, 36 Death, 17 Blood Other: 2 Ranarrs, Dwarf Weed, 540 Mith Arrows, 4 Raw Sharks, Rune Med, 2 Watermellon Seeds Charm Drop Rate: 93% overall, 74% Crimson Trip 2 (Ring of Wealth) Waterfiends Killed: 148 Charms: 21 Gold, 8 Green, 108 Crimson, 3 Blue Runes: 322 Water, 72 Death, 22 Blood Other: 4 Ranarrs, 1 Kwuarm, 5 Raw Sharks, 2 Rune Meds, Water Battlestaff, 720 Mith arrows, Water Orb, Spirit Weed Seed, 2 Watermellon Seeds Charm Drop Rate: 95% overall, 73% Crimson Trip 3 (Ring of Wealth) Waterfiends Killed: 153 Charms: 13 Gold, 7 Green, 121 Crimson, 2 Blue Runes: 700 Water, 36 Death, 12 Blood Other: 3 Ranarrs, 3 Water Battlestaves, Rune Med, 4 Watermellon Seeds, 360 Mith Arrows, 8 Water Orbs Charm Drop Rate: 94%overall, 79% Crimson Trip 4 (Berserker Ring) Waterfiends Killed: 168 Charms: 17 Gold, 8 Green, 133 Crimson, 0 Blue Runes: 782 Water, 18 Death, 22 Blood Other: 1070 Mith Arrows, 3 Raw Sharks, 4 Water Orbs, Lantadyme, Kwuarm, Dwarf Weed, Rune Med Charm Drop Rate: 94% overall, 79% Crimson Trip 5 (Berserker Ring) Waterfiends Killed: 158 Charms: 19 Gold, 7 Green, 112 Crimson, 8 Blue Runes: 113 Water, 45 Deaths, 12 Bloods Other: 7 Water Orbs, 3 Water Battlestaves, Ranarr Seed, 2 Ranarrs, Spirit Weed Seed, 3 Rune Meds, 180 Mith Arrows Charm Drop Rate: 92% overall, 71% Crimson Trip 6 (Ring of Wealth) Waterfiends Killed: 138 Charms: 17 Gold, 4 Green, 108 Crimson, 3 Blue Runes: 830 Water, 54 Death, 24 Blood Other: 6 Water Orbs, 2 Sharks, 2 Water Battlestaves, Ranarr, Irit, 920 Mith Arrows, Uncut Ruby, Rune Med Charm Drop Rate: 96% overall, 78% Crimson *By charm drop rate I mean the percentage of kills which resulted in charms. i.e., 93% overall, 74% Crimson means that 93% of kills resulted in any charm, 74% of kills resulted in a Crimson charm specifically.[/hide] Closing Remarks By no means is this guide ultimate, extensive, or in any other way exhaustive. I understand that everyone has their own preferences, levels and bank account. I hope I've provided adequate information and a good enough starting point that you can determine exactly what works best for you without too much pain and experimentation. Happy Charm Hunting, Oxi

I basically do what I want and never worry about self-sufficiency. If I feel like training a skill, that's what I do, and if I have the cash to power train it, even better. To quote my grandpop, "money's no good unless you're spending it." I do worry about efficiency though. For example, when doing allotment runs, I can visit and water and watch all the patches myself, but I don't. I pay the farmers and craft deaths while they're growing. The end result is more the same amount of Farming XP, added RC xp, and I make more cash RCing than I lose by farming. EDIT: Also, you say that powerleveling is not enjoyable and I say you couldn't be more wrong. I powerleveled my cooking in the Rogue's Den at the same to 2 all-99ers were training their way up to 200m xp and had an absolute blast talking to them and most of the crowds they attracted. Even now, I'm in the middle of training Farming with Yews and Palms. I had the cash to spend and I enjoy the skill. In fact, I got to 70 by mostly DIYing it, and I'm liking it more that I can take 2 tree and 1 fruit tree run every day as opposed to having to wait to gather the seeds myself.

That sounds a lot like archeology to be honest. Honestly, I want them to clean up and finish up Summoning before they do anything else crazy. I love the concept they can up with, but it still needs a lot of work to become a polished, useful skill.

1. If you haven't noticed a change then, as I said before, I don't think you actually noticed just how disrespectfully other players treated each other. I'm not saying that it's all peachy keen now, far from it. All I'm saying is that there's less of it. 2. I never complained about them. I know the Abyss was in the Wilderness to make it dangerous. I found ways to adapt including recharging prayer at my house and world hopping. All I said was that I find RC much more enjoyable now.

That exact part was an exaggeration. I thought the "lvl 127" would make that quite obvious. But if you honestly think that the amount of abusive behavior and crude insults hasn't dropped significantly in the past month you haven't been paying the slightest bit of attention to the way players treat each other. In fact, most of my friends have noticed the same exact thing. Most were pretty funny, some were not. If I saw Teleblock I preferred not to stick around to find out the differece. They've admitted that they got prices wrong and gone as far as to say that they will correct them. I for one see the potential in these updates and am willing to give them some time. If, however, they keep rolling out more content and quests without fixing what is admittedly wrong then I'll be more inclined to agree with you. And by the way, the 2 examples you chose are hardly representative of the entire Grand Exchange. Yew longs are an obvious mistake, that's been known since the first day they released it. There are also very few people who have both the cash and desire to buy a party hat now that they can't be merchanted. The truth is that the vast majority of prices have corrected themselves since the initial release.

It's *already* better in my opinion. The first and foremost reason being that there is much, much less abusive behavior. Coincidence or not, since the PKing update I can walk around a bank or other similarly crowded area without being greeted by a chorus of "I pwn u nub" or "my main is lvl 127 with 18 blue phats". Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all PKers are rude, abusive, and use bad grammar. It's just that I've noticed a lot less of this in the past month, and I'm far from the only person who feels this way. Also, with the PKing update, Abyss RCing just got a lot better. I've always found the Abyss itself fun and never minded the dangers associated with it, but having to change world every 5 minutes to avoid PKers was just ridiculous. I realize that it was in the Wilderness to add an element of danger, and with Revenants that is still there. I guess the same can be said of any sort of skilling in the Wilderness now, and those who wish to kill other players are forced to go against others with similar intentions. The Grand Exchange, though it needs a bit of tweaking, is also wonderful. Lets face it, selling and buying things has always been a hassle. Either you had to deal with getting into w2 or arrange a meeting over the forums, and half the time you would run into someone trying to rip you off or who didn't actually read your post. With the exchange, you know exactly what you are getting and exactly what it is worth. No questions. No wasting you time on people who can't read. Nobody trying to rip you off or talk you into making a trade that you just don't want to. Yes, these recent updates are not without a negative impact. I did sell things cheaply to friends, but they usuually did the same for me, so I suppose it all works out in the end. The biggest disappointment, however, is monster hunting. It's just not as attractive to go with a group now that you can't split the drops. They said they were looking into a solution for that though, and I'm willing to give them some time before it truly irks me.

It's really a shame that these updates are making so many experienced players quit, but honestly, it needed to be done. Even though it negatively affects my gameplay, I still agree with and support the update. JaGex have tried for 5 years to combat bots and gold selling through less drastic means with little success. They introduce random events and instead of bald men in green shirts chopping Yews and mining ess, there were bald men in random event clothes chopping Yews and mining ess. They introduced Pure Essence and gold farmers just bought memberships with the knowledge that it would pay for itself, or simply used stolen credit cards. They tried banning bots and IPs, but the gold farmers just got new bots and IPs. They tried banning the buyers and making public examples of those that were caught, but most were not and people continued to buy gold anyway. From what I can gather, JaGex finally had enough of people getting around everything they did and were going to make damn sure they stopped it once and for all, even if it meant losing customers. Anyone saying that bots didn't hurt their gameplay and didn't need to be removed needs to take a step back at look at the harm they caused to people around them. They hurt many people, and not just by making a silly game worse. Many bot accounts were paid for with a stolen credit card. A small $5 USD per month charge may go unnoticed for quite a while, and that can add up over time. I may be wrong, but I'd be shocked if most hacked accounts went to 14 yr olds who just want pixelated riches. Gold sellers have one purpose: to make as much gp as possible in the shortest time possible to make as much real money as possible. What faster way is there than hacking a rich, careless account? Also remember that getting rid of bots helps out a lot of players too. Those who want to fish, cut logs, mine essence, or kill dragons for money will have a much easier time of it and find that it is more profitable. In that way the updates enhance the gameplay of a significant number of people. So, even though it made my goal of 99 Prayer that much harder and made it much more difficult to help friends, I support the update 100% and commend JaGex for having the courage to stand for what is right even though they knew full well that it would be unpopular and cause quite a few long-standing members to cancel their subscriptions.

As has been said in this thread before... YEW LONGS WILL NOT GO BELOW 704EA That is the minimum price the GE will ever sell for unless JaGex themselves alter the price. Certain items have a price range that they will not go out of. This was done to prevent price manipulation. The bottom of that range for Yew Longs is 704. That simple fact is, in reality, the only reason this thread even exists...

Eh? When could you buy everything and profit? In the past year, not even fletching your own was enough. You had to either cut you own logs, craft the nats, or spin flax to profit.

OK, maybe Steel plates aren't the best option. It was only an example. My point is that alching for mage xp will not go away as a result of January's impending trade update.

I think the problem is that for most items, there is a set min and a set max price which is based on what specialty shops buy and sell for, and it looks like that price is way out of line with the free market value of Yew Longs. Jagex may or may not correct this, but either way, there are choices out there. 1. Alching is still an option - Green D'hide Bodies and Steel Plates are the first two alternatives to bows that come to mind. 2. There's the Mage Training Arena also. With Cosmics down to about 150gp ea, the Enchanting Chamber is a much more attractive option now than it was when I was training Mage. 3. The Barrows or Dagganoth Kings are both a good way to train mage through combat without losing tens of millions on the way to 99. Plus if you do Barrows, you can always burn your extra runes on Castle Wars or at Pest Control for faster xp. P.S. - Whoever said Magic should have to be trained through combat, please realize that it is unique in the way it is also a non-combat skill. In fact, nearly the entire Lunar Spellbook has nothing to do with combat. That's why it makes sense that you should be able to train it any way you like.

Whether you mage or melee Karil depends on your combat stats. Personally I mage him as 87 Magic in Ahrims beats the poo out of 74 Atk, 72 Str.

Despite him saying "I'm Zar... err... I mean miaow.", Bob the Cat is not Zaros. He is really Robert the Strong, a warrior of Armadyl from the second age.

Coal is used in makeing steel, not for the heat, but for the carbon content. It is what makes the difference between iron and steel. Also, if you add tin, aluminum, or zink, you get stainless steel. And THAT is the metalurgy lesson for the day. Class dismissed! Steel has far LESS carbon than cast iron. It can range from IF steel, which has almost no carbon at all, to high-carbon steels that are about 0.34 wt% carbon. Cast iron is typically above 1 wt% carbon. Steel has a much higher melting point. The OP was correct that coal is used for heat. Steel is given the "stainless" moniker due to high chromium content (typically above 30%, but there is no hard rule). Tin, aluminum, and zinc have nothing to do with whether or not a steel is "stainless". THAT is a metallurgy lesson from someone with a college degree in the subject. P.S. - Sorry if this is irrelevant, but it just hurt to read something that incredibly incorrect.