NukeMarine

He said it takes into account GE cost so I doubt he cuts them. Sounds like a good plan akin to running flatpack mahogany.

Since when is that hte case for a GAME? Since every single RPG that was almost ever made. If you don't like it, then clearly this isn't your sort of game. There's nothing to blow the whistle on here. The game is working exactly as it should, in this respect. It's not a lofty, bs laden debate of principles, and people need to stop trying to turn it into one. Ah, and thanks for the info about the ratios. Though, if that was true and he wanted a 'quest at every other level' (assuming he was still allowed to enforce such a goal) then I don't understand where the heel-digging-in is coming from. It has to happen some time sooner or later, if what he says is to be believed. My first post in this topic was that I'm not opposed to 90-level req quests.. However I dislike a "gap" in levels - something that would've been the case when the FM req was 90 now. While previous level requirement was only 70. That's a reasonable opinion. Most players with exception of those maxed out would be happy with a skill creep concerning quests. It's on the same line of thinking that I believe that most every level past 70 in most skills should provide a tangible benefit. Yes, it's just playing on the Skinner Box effect, but there's a reason why that works.

If you're going to paraphrase, at least add something to the conversation. Not sure how you got that from what I wrote.

If anybody ever played RuneQuest or Mythworld pen and paper RPG's, it's not too hard to come up with another skill. Oratory/language skill, animal husbandry/ranching skill, a musical based skill or even the archaeology/item evaluation skills come to mind. The difficulty is ensuring that the skill is fully developed and has a purpose outside of the skill itself (and not just as an afterthought such as the dungeoneering skill dungeons). Not just quests, but improve or supplement other skills. Personally, I like that they're going to do a non-skill called player owned ports which is like a skill but without things we associate with RS skills - the grind. If I can predict how they'll introduce POPs, it'll be more like Clan Citadels where it's about investing time into upkeep and upgrading. They could have done the exact same thing with Dungeoneering, where instead of shoehorning it into a grindable skill, it'd be playing the dungeon to open up more of the dungeon. All that said, I'd still like them to constantly improve the existing skills. Hunter is ripe as it can be incorporated to work on all the animals of runescape including slayer monsters.

Why? WHY????? The whole idea of combat levels was to reflect the monster's stats, and then you, as a player, would have to take note of their worn equipment and work out how powerful they would be. Why get rid of this old mechanic? Thats ridiculous. They should just keep it like it always have been giving them 'stats' and churning out a combat level like out charachters have. I disagree. The Barrows were the first NPC that seemed to actually use weapons and armor. NPCs before that just had base stats that reflected what the equivalent of what they were wearing. I like the idea that they want combat level to reflect how difficult it is to kill a character. Gorillas are a great example on how healing monsters are much more difficult. The barrows are great examples on how stat enhancing equipment make monsters much more difficult. Maybe this'll lead the way to get rid of combat levels based solely on skill stats alone. If not that, then at least give players some method to tell the combat equivalent level a player actually is based on both their stats and their equipment/food/potions.

Glad they changed it. Hearing that only guys that happened to be in the right clan at the right time did not sit well with me. That said, I think that since it took 6 months for these large clans to get to T7, then only clan members that are members to that clan for 6 months can wield the Vex. That sounds reasonable and stops people from just joining a big clan for instant benefits. Full disclosure: I don't belong to a clan, and I think that people should have the ability to buy their share of the resources using GP or some other non-tradeable in-game currency (ghost tokens, tokkel, castle war tickets, zeal, etc)

Like agility, I'm hoping they at least interweave Firemaking with all the other skills to bring further benefits. One major stumbling block is two other skills where it would be obvious, smithing and cooking, would require a major gameplay change. Hunting - Higher the firemaking, better smoking traps help Crafting - Ability to tan own hides, fire better pottery Prayer - More types of pyres Cooking - Start making all fires have impact on chance. Stoves have base level, but you can add kindling which raises that stoves chances. Smithing - Similar to cooking, allow all furnaces to be improved by players that bring further benefits. Perhaps saving coal over time. Better results at dwarver blast furnace. Magic - Fire based spells get better boosts Melee - Ability to apply oily balm. Lasts limited time. Extra damage is like poison. In reality, this should happen to all skills. As you get better in one skill, then it starts supporting other skills. Yes, this is difficult to implement as it's after the fact where many skills such as cooking and smithing were give simple game interfaces when Runescape was young. Had those skills been invented now, they'd be more like minigames where it's not about making 100 items in 6 minutes but taking 6 minutes to make 1 item for equivalent experience of 100 items in today's game. In turn, there'd be much more leeway in other skills offering supporting roles.

I'm glad they lowered the quest requirements but added material where only higher skill levels can benefit. This has been a cool technique Jagex has employed with One Piercing Note (prayer books), Thieve's Guild (expanding), Rag and Bone Man, and others. Yes, just like elite tasks there can be elite level quests. However, I think at that point such quests would be necessary for trimmed quest capes. Even then, it's reasonable to base elite levels on a percentage of players at that time that have the levels. 5% to 10% sounds like a good thing to aim at.

Admittedly, I kinda skimmed your post, but I did notice the bolded paragraph. I'd like to point out that it'd be unnecessary to test this, since it can be calculated fairly easily. I'd be more than happy to do it if there was enough interest. I'd be interested. So I assume this is dealing with calculated damage per second? Is it known now how atk and str bonuses react against def bonuses?

Anyone find it annoying when people say they can get X skill level in Y number of days? Seriously, do these guys think we know how long they spend playing every day to put their dismissive statement into context?

Don't confuse the game map with what the map would be if this world existed. Imagine it as being most of Europe with a good chunk of Africa and Asia thrown in for good measure. These major cities would be surrounded by dozens if not hundreds of villages and towns. With that, Edgeville could be two ro three day's journey from Varrock. It's a trade off. Do you want a huge map that's to scale such as Ultima Online offered or this more interactive video game map where the highlights are much closer together and the drudgery of travel is removed not to mention pushes players closer together. I did enjoy the scaled map that Ultima offered, but I find that RS with it's game logic map design more fun. With that, I'd say by game logic, the Dragonkin ignored Varrock.

The lore connection is minor though ultimately irrelevant to gameplay mechanics. Just seems cool to attach these three combat support skills with each of the three gods. On you second point, I'd hoped that the idea of herblore being used in the combat formula would mean that untradeables are then allowed in all PvP situations including the wilderness. After all, the original "complaint" when overloads and extremes were first introduced was that guys got a big combat benefit without a change in the combat level. If Herblore affected the combat level, well, it stands to reason that extremes can once again be allowed in PvP. For the future of Runescape, it's obvious that more and more of the support skills give players a significant combat advantage. This is either indirectly via quest requirements or even directly such as herblore, dungeoneering, slayer. Later, it stands to reason that untradeable high level weapons and armor miade directly by players will enter the game. What should happen is removing the entire concept of the combat formula. It's never been about your base stats. More and more, it's about both the stats and the weapons, armor, food, potions, spells and scrolls. It'll only get worse. Just base combat levels on stats and inventory with minor checks and balances with concern of finding or dropping items. Even better, add a 3 second time delay in combat when switching out armor and weapons. At the current hitpoints/armour/weapons. Extremes and overloads will never see the wilderness. With extreme strength you can claw over 930 on another player in one spec. Not to mention the super accurate 530s with whip. And over 1100 with dharoks. And over 1000 with DDS. (Serious lol. Look it up.) Your formula idea is rediculous. That would basically equate to a level 90, risking his entire bank fighting a level 138 risking a dragon dagger. And the 138 would win every time. Easily. I don't care how many times you use the word balance, it's really impossible to do, and the whole idea punishes people for using good weapons and armour. "3 second delay in combat when switching out armor and weapons." Oh. I get it now. You've never pk'd before in your life. Not only would that be exploited to hell "He's about to deal finishing blow. *Take off armour*" people tend to use multiple armour set ups to pk. I'm not even talking about the hybrids that obviously do, even when you change your whip to DDS this timer would ruin the fight and give the opponent time to eat 600hp worth of food. Sorry, but overloads and extremes did see the wilderness on initial release so your theory falls apart there. If you meant "never again" then that can be argued, but I offered a counter. Even your complaints about max hits (more about a luck shot than tactics, but whatever) will lose strength with the implementation of life point boosting armor. As for your counter to people's combat stats and bonuses: A level 138 with only a dragon dagger versus a level 90 with I assume 70 tier armor and weapons (Vharrok and whip?). I don't think the 138 has a shot expecially if food is involved (less so if summoning can be used). Still, seems like an easy test to try out. Say 10 battles with 15 sharks and 4 dose prayer pot per battle. Not sure how you're responding to the idea of having a delay when equipping items during combat. I'm assuming you misread, given your contradictory example making it sound like combat between both players is delayed. A time delay is meant to discourage hybriding meaning you want to fight with what you're wearing. If it takes 3 seconds to remove a whip then another 3 second to arm a crossbow, you're likely just going to stick with a whip or run away. Now, if it's that you like the tactic of rapidly switching weapons and armor, then that's a different issue. I find it counter to the spirit of the combat triangle and not realistic to boot. Seriously, try something simple like jogging and changing shirts then multiply that difficulty with leather chaps and metal platelegs. No real reason about bringing up time delays by the way. Just seemed like something that'll balance combat.

Anyone excited at the idea that people will be able to replay quests? This has been a very old request. Although it's limited at the moment to those three listed, it's an indication that soon people can replay quests at will. Here's hoping :thumbsup:

The lore connection is minor though ultimately irrelevant to gameplay mechanics. Just seems cool to attach these three combat support skills with each of the three gods. On you second point, I'd hoped that the idea of herblore being used in the combat formula would mean that untradeables are then allowed in all PvP situations including the wilderness. After all, the original "complaint" when overloads and extremes were first introduced was that guys got a big combat benefit without a change in the combat level. If Herblore affected the combat level, well, it stands to reason that extremes can once again be allowed in PvP. For the future of Runescape, it's obvious that more and more of the support skills give players a significant combat advantage. This is either indirectly via quest requirements or even directly such as herblore, dungeoneering, slayer. Later, it stands to reason that untradeable high level weapons and armor miade directly by players will enter the game. What should happen is removing the entire concept of the combat formula. It's never been about your base stats. More and more, it's about both the stats and the weapons, armor, food, potions, spells and scrolls. It'll only get worse. Just base combat levels on stats and inventory with minor checks and balances with concern of finding or dropping items. Even better, add a 3 second time delay in combat when switching out armor and weapons.

If any skill should be added to the combat level formula then it's herblore. There's a few useful reasons to back this up. -It balances the three gods concept: Prayer=Saradomin; Summoning=Zamorak; Herblore=Guthix -It boosts skills much like summoning and prayer. -The concept of untradeables make Herblore a potent skill for combat Of course, if Jagex makes herblore part of the combat formula, it will need to introduce about 20 more untradebles that get unlocked from lower levels of the skill. In addition, the benefits from untradeble potions have to be more significant than the tradeable counterparts. Things like stat boosts that last a set time or mixed potions such as an actual super set. IIRC, if herblore got 1/8 skill level to the combat formula, then the max level would be 151. Really though, Jagex should scrap the combat level concept and instead go for combat potential based on both the character's stats and the equipment they're carrying in inventory.

Interesting -- so you're positing that the trend "to get 99" is what drove people to use bots -- and now that bots have been mostly eliminated, the trend to get 99 will peeter out somewhat and gradually decline over time? I am not disagreeing with you, by the way, I am merely re-stating this for clarification. Please correct me, if you think I am putting words in your mouth. All this said, I will be most interested to see if you're correct in this analysis. How long, do you think, before we see this trend really take effect in the community? I wonder, also, what effect this is going to have on the community, in terms of its psyche, in the long run? :unsure: Kind of sort of if you squint and look at it sideways I guess? It was more that since the items were cheap enough (due to botting that dump lots of items for easy gp to sell), and there were non grinding methods of getting gp (flipping, dicing, 76k'ing, RWT) to buy those cheap items. Problem was, if you tried any non-grinding method to get gp you'd just could not keep up with bots to gather enough gp to matter. My point about players buying 99's was more of a "You know, I have the gp and the items aren't that much in perspective, why not buy the material to get 99". Now, I'm sure some then botted to level their account with these cheap items but that was secondary. The main point was that grinding was not a money making method to get gp to get 99's. It's still not that great now, however grinding is now a money maker so people may instead opt for a lower goal which is still achievable with what gp they can grind out. Someone that builds hunter to 92 at the chins (instead of Jadinkos) or yews (instead of ivy) can likely have an income to keep up with leveling crafting to 92 using battlestaffs and fire orbs. I don't think anyone can grind their way to keep up with herblore and prayer, but is that a bad thing considering the combat advantage those skills now give? Looking at that ramble of a paragraph, I guess I could say that now people will be willing to level on skills that get gp rich items instead of the faster methods that don't produce much. That's something that'd be stupid to try pre-bot nuke as you'd be leveling slower with no other benefit.

Happy? With everything inflated by 70-100%, you are not any better off as you were. But it's not everything. Assuming you can get rid of major bot influences, you're left with prices dictated by the emotions of players. Sooner or later, the amount of people driven with the emotion to get a quick 99 will decrease, along with the demand for materials needed for that quick 99. As long as the economy is the balanced trade of what people consider an hour of their time is worth compared to the amount of time that went into the ability to utilize that hour mixed with desire of the end product then I'm cool with high prices of some items versus low prices of others.

Pardon my poor knowledge of gambling, but where is this money coming from? I assume it's from others that are staking also trying to get enough to max out?

It's still in flux because there's still a large number of players with the get 99 mindset. Soon, once prices make that a pipe dream for more players, then the demand will go down along with the prices. In addition, as consumables go up, so too will the desire to gather these consumables for a better profit which will also help find a happy medium for a stable price. Amazing how these 10 months of power bots really messed with the economy.

No surprises here. With the removal of complicated gathering routines (bots) the prices of all items are on the rise. The excess raw materials are being bought up more and more, but not being replaced at the previous rate. Prices for materials go up, so the need for actual gp to pay for these items go up. Rare prices go down because that's the obvious choice to get gp quickly. That's all the short term stuff. Now for the long term. The part that makes the discussion fun. How will the average mid and high level player change their play style? Will they debase themselves gathering their own materials? Look into more mini-games which offer a better gp to xp ratio? Turn to GE flipping to get the extra cash to finance leveling? Reduce their goals from 99 to perhaps a level that's needed just for the existing content? On top of how players react to the economic changes, how will Jagex react? Currently, Jagex offers a wide variety of things that replicate what bots did. You have methods of resources gathered (MTK, Bert, Varrock Battlestaffs, Essence, Flax). You're given methods to level any skill almost free of charge (Penguins, Troll Invasion, Jack of all Trade, Tears). You're given methods for quick xp in a variety of skills (D&D events such as Circus or daily/weekly events such as Bork or Hanky points). With bots no longer providing players with relatively cheap and easy leveling, will Jagex fill the void even more than usual? It seems so with the coming update of Player Owned Ports which, like MTK, seem to be a legal version of bots gathering a variety resources.

Some people are going to have that hoarder (Hodor?) mentallity. You're not going to convince them they don't need every possible item at the ready. They have to decide for themselves, either by being forced due to the game limits or just realizing on their own. Good on Jagex though. They're still finding ways to help our bank space. POH, tool belt, lepracaun, wicked hood, grimy herbs (gods I hated having to keep the unids sorted), and gods know what else have created a virtual 500 item bank.

For more passive skilling like woodcutting or fishing, I use Anki to review college classes or languages. For click intensive training like hunting I just watch Japanese dramas. Personally, I'll be happy if Jagex can make all skills more passive in some manner.

So there should be two lists: A list of in game uses that are missing or corrupted in addition to a list of items that should go onto the belt. Make sure to submit bug reports on the former and suggestions for the latter. The having the tinderbox as a rightclick option on logs is not a bug though. Before you needed two clicks and now you need two clicks. However, now if you're trying to use a tinderbox in inventory you can still accidentally click the log first and bring up the fletching menu. Personally, if they're serious about the toolbelt being a means to reduce clicking in grinding, then they should allow a left click to burn logs as an option.

Although it's a great (though currently buggy) update, I think there was a missed opportunity here. Personal opinion, but it would have been cool if tool belt slots became available based on completed quests and tasks, or maybe even have it be it's own thing such as a handyman mini-quest. Given the great benefit the tool belt offers, I'm sure it'd have been a popular mini-quest. It's the same opinion I had that POH locations should have had quest restrictions (such as Fremminick or Duel quests for those areas). Yeah, the locations are cool, but I felt not having the quests being a pre-req took away from things such as the lyre or watchtower teleport. Still a great update, and hopefully they'll have the bugs ironed out.

Longevity here. I powered up to level 99 cooking (pre-cook all, but at the ever lasting fire) though most of that was for tracking the burn rate with gauntlets. Only thing it taught me was not to do silly stuff like that again. Nothing wrong with grinding, but it doesn't work for some people such as myself. Now, I decided to sell off 3 santas to get supplies for level 92 in the "buyable" skills. However, that's just to casually level skills in between D&Ds, JoaT, fruit tree runs and various quests and tasks. I choose 92 as it's the halfway point to 99 in addition being the minimum to get all steps of the effigies.