NukeMarine

Again, we might all be reading too much into this. It's possible that quiries can still find every player's (p2p, f2p, inactive) score. It may be only the actual ranking where it shows your position that's a member's only feature. If that's the case, well, it's not that bad. Yeah, as F2P you can't tell what your 18million xp in fishing ranks with all players p2p, f2p and inactive. But if you can still see your actual scores then that's cool. So, assuming that it's only the ranking that's removed but everything else remains, will people be cool with that? Personally, I'm ok with not ranking inactive players. I've made such suggestions in the past. I can kind of sort of understand not ranking F2P if for nothing else the bot nuke showing many, many f2p were botted which messed up the high scores something fierce. Still, what's wrong with ranking F2P accounts IF they are logged in and play at least 1 hour a month?

Remove the first question as it's redundant. That'll give you room for asking about splitting f2p and p2p

"Human Dice" Requires three people: Host, Countdown person, Better Host advertises: "Human Dice, x1.9 on Evens" Better offers up cash, Host calculates wager x 1.9 and calls out payout on win. Host and Better each type 1 number (0 to 9) and a string of 20 random characters and waits to press enter. Countdown person counts down "3" enter "2" enter "1" enter "Go" Both host and better press enter. Any delay of either person nullifies that round. Countdown person adds up the two numbers and calls out if the sum is even or odd Pay out better if sum is even wash, rinse, repeat. This cannot be removed at all unless jagex installs balanced trade again. Variant: Use two emotes to choose from, pay out if better and host both perform the same emote. Still needs a third person to say go.

Seriously, grab a dictionary, look up gambling, then come back here. Even the stock market, no matter how well you study the ins and outs of it, is still gambling. Giving it a softer term like "investing" does not remove the risk aspect. Same goes when you "wager" on sporting events. Doesn't matter how well you know the stats of the teams. The most you do is mitigate the risk, not remove it. Yet, it's still called gambling all the same. If you can't understand a simple concept like gambling, it's best you remove yourself from the conversation.

Really, duel arena is 50/50? Fascinating. Tell you what...make a character that's 40 in all combat stats. I'll make one that's low def, high atk/str but at the same combat level (basically at least 70 str/atk). I'll also only accept wager when the rules allow for no food, pots, mage, range, armor or shields. Basically, nothing but melee 1h weapons. Oh, and I have a abyssal whip. Now, in this 50/50 match, how many matches out of 100 will you win again? No, seriously try to answer 50 and not to be laughed at by anyone in this forum. By the way, virtual numbers of a virtual character, even if they're termed 'skills' does not a game of skills make. Java is still a pseudo-random number generater so it's still about chance. However, you can skew those chances in your favor if you know the system. That's no more skill that saying "55x2", no matter how you try to skew it.

Ok, I'll bite. Jagex said "This is for a number of reasons, but the main one is to keep them fresh." Now, I understand the the desire to keep things fresh, but that's easy enough by requiring either membership or at least logging in once a month. So, first question: What do they mean by "members only" feature? Can these scores only be viewed by members (possible) or is it that only members scores will be visible to all? Second question: Can we still look at individual scores of f2p? If the claim it's only about rankings, then seeing their unranked scores of members or f2p should not hurt. Third question: What are these number of other reasons. Can any of you offer legitimate reasons to back up this decision? As I mentioned in the dicing thread, I value honest explanations behind an unpopular decision over shady explanations behind popular ones.

Ok, I'll put my feeling aside about Jagex's weasly comments in regards to gambling and how Jagex just does not allow that :roll: If I read correctly, there are actual UK laws that prohibit virtual forms of gambling in products aimed at children. Yes, it was passed in over reaction to some pokemon game or some sort, but it's a law none-the-less and applies very much so to Jagex. As such, I can see they cannot come out and say they do offer actual venues for gambling (Rat Pits, Conquest, Duel Arena). The thing is, if they're honest about ridding these non venue games of chance, they have to remove items that generate random results in convenient locations. First method: treat these random number generators differently in friend chat. In order for a friend to see the roll, they had to have been your friend for at least 1 week. That right there removes 99% of the current dicers. I don't know if this is feasible, but it at least keeps the items in the game for their intended purpose. Second method: remove or blank out randomly generated items or images (flowers, seals, paths taken by clockwork pets, random emotes, poison/heal chance foods, etc.). Jagex knows which items are being used, so it's a minor change. Flowers for example appear white until picked.

-Well I pay and I say that F2P should be listed in their own high scores. Like others say, it should be a filter for either all players, p2p or f2p. By the way, in a game where there's on open forum, you have to offer a better argument that "No pay, no say". -I don't see many complaints if at all about the time filter. That's legit, though it should be a selectable filter. -I like that they're expanded what's things are listed on the high scores. Hopefully it'll be things people love to compete. -I'd love if for the skill total list they'd use what a player's skill total would be if there were no skill cap. In other words skills (on score board only) go from 1 to 126 so 3500 skill total if you get 200 mill in all skills. Just seeing a bunch of capped out players only seperated by experience points is not cool.

^^This, seriously (about the splitting, not the fees). Come on, it's been a long term request that Jagex split up P2P and F2P. In addition, been asked for not counting inactive accounts. So really good on Jagex for doing that part. What I don't understand is them completely removing F2P. There's no benefit and only detriment to that idea. If there are high score tables, there should be selections: -All, P2P or F2P; -Active last month, last 6 months, or all time. *For F2P high scores, they only count F2P skills for total ranking.

Really, so it wasn't players on the other end of the dice bending odds in their favor? I must have missed the memo. No, it's that the house (one of the players) had the capital to back losses. The other player, being silly enough to take an 11:9 against odds literally was choosing to give his money away in the long run. Oh, but the Duel Arena was much worse odds. Some guys wanted me to not wear armor at Duel Arena even though I had the stats for armor and they did not. So I had a 40 defense but could not use equipment that exploited that level, yet he could exploit his 70 atk for a whip. It's like he was BENDING the odds in his favor. And the odds were much better than 9 to 11 for.

(Wall of text removed for this main point) No, Jagex is just being a hypocrite with respect to given reasons for removing dicing. Does this really matter? They removed something that was really hurting the game. Why must people like you try to find one little detail or inconsistency and pick at it? Live and let live. If someone is honest with you about the reasons for a difficult decision, you're liable to back them up even if you're overall against it. Actually, I don't have to go into detail about free trade removal and how I backed that decision. I can just say I like Jagex better when they're honest with the players. Here, they were not even if the result of their actions were a net positive. Call me crazy for backing honesty.

Yeah, pretty much. It was a problem. There was loads of spam even after the fix. There was scamming thanks to trust trading being allowed back in the game via free trade (Jagex fixed that problem three years and re-introduced it for profit reasons). There was a deeper problem in that it was such a great tool at generating GP that it became a source of RWT gp. If I took what they said seriously in that post, then I'm naive enough to expect them to remove original Holiday Items since these things are now being exploited not only as trading items but also revenue generators thanks to the loan system. Yet, they still remain after nearly a decade. Funny that. No, Jagex is just being a hypocrite with respect to given reasons for removing dicing. They're being realistic with respect to rares (that's an aspect beyond any method of repair).

This. I know the w/l ratio in the Duel Arena for regular boxing can be as bad as 50.1/49.9, but that's still better than 45/55, and it depends on your style switching, which means you can determine the .2% difference that is a profit instead of a loss. For things like armour on staking, it's more dependant on strategy. I can't say I'm sorry to see dicing go. Good update :). Nope, still gambling. Unless you claim to impact the results to a 100% guarenteed outcome. Usually that's due to a bug exploit or some other scam thanks to Jagex's amazing game mechanic at the Duel Arena. Let's take that one step further, you're at the duel arena with your 0.2% advantage thanks to your leet skills. However, your opponent holds your cash and promises to give you double if you win the fight. Don't try to bring the odds into it. It could have easily been 50/50 coin flip and the problem of having to depend on trust trading would remain. I'll say again, it was Jagex's BS line about them not being for gambling that got me miffed. If they just left it at "we're doing this to reduce spam and a common avenue for scamming despite the legit uses of this game item" I'd have little complaint, heck I'd have cheered them. Instead, they were hypocrites on this and in a blatant way at that.

Are you doing this on purpose? You seriously can't follow this line of thought? Ok, I'll try to be clearer. There's no real gambling in the Duel Arena or in Conquest (wtf is Cat Arena?). Do you even know what gambling is? Do I seriously need to copy and paste a definition of gambling here? Wikipedia on Gambling. Note it involves wagering item of inherent value (gp or items in RS) and event of uncertain outcome (are you 100% POSITIVE you'll win Duel Arena?). Huh, which kind of "negative activity" do you mean? I don't understand. In the real world, killing another person is considered a negative activity. Now, Jagex is claiming something (gambling) in its fantasy world which allows murder, theft, arson and other unsavory acts is not actually not a good thing to do in a fantasy world. They have some merit when we're talking about activities that affect other players, but they still allow the wilderness which allows people to kill me when I don't want them to. Basically, their current argument does not mesh with the reality they themselves have ultimate control over. Yeah, they could remove the dice over chat instead. But where do they claim dicing is somehow "lower" or "higher" than any other scamming method? Well, go to the Duel Arena. If you're still able to wager on an uncertain outcome then I'd say they put that in the higher category.

To be fair, since there were so many legitimate clans it allowed for easy scamming. It was mainly legit because the house was with the players which meant if you hosted you won in the long run. The problems were, like always, legit with respect to spam and scam and illegit like most of the 12 year old arguments on the RSOF (children's game, illegal in real life, odds not in favor of the other player, etc.). Still, to stop the problems you also stopped those that weren't the problem.

That doesn't make sense at all. Jagex said it didn't support gambling, yet actually designed the mechanisms with the Duel Arena, Cat Arena and Conquest. Jagex claimed that gambling was a negative activity, yet has enormous amounts of negative activity in the game and not just actions against NPCs (Wilderness is just one big area to screw over another real player). Basically, they're spouting BS with their reasons for removing Dice. Now, there are legit reasons: Ease of scamming (though more profitable if you didn't), and loads of spamming. As such, just disable ability to dice over chat. However, don't claim this activity is some how much lower than scamming another kid into the dangerous portal at the clan duel.

lol I offered up an idea for that. Of course, there may be laws against blatant forms of virtual gambling. Then again, Jagex can instead have a Casino with no impact on the actual economy. First, offer everyone a daily token amount (say, 1k tokens). You're only playing for listing on server and world wide high scores on a daily, weekly, bi-weekily and quad weekly basis. After 8 weeks, all tokens are reset. Seriously, it's obvious many players like to gamble with virtual goods. Isn't it Jagex always claiming these things don't really exist and have no inherent value? Put their obvious lies to the test and call for a non-economic impact Casino.

Ok, here's the list: Duel Arena, Item Flipping, Cat Arena. Yeah, no gp gambling there. Oh, right, Jagex offered a method for safe transfer of gambled funds without resorting to trust. Heavens forbid they do such things in game. Oh, but gambling is illegal. Wait, wait, so is: Stealing, killing, poisoning, corpse desecration, breaking and entering,insider trading and suicide. Yet, oh wait, I forgot, this is a fantasy game in a fantasy land where all these activities are legal. This was not about scamming, so quit trying to call it that. There was a problem that people could scam, but it would have been a simple fix like the duel arena offers. That said, there's no major harm in removing it. I'm just annoyed at their thinking and reasons. In addition, they can leave dice in the game, just remove it's use over chat. If players can't verify a roll by others, then dicing goes away naturally. PS: It still won't stop gambling. At least it'll curb an easy method of doing it.

I'm about to start up DG since I'll be up to 60 thanks to penguin points. Right now I'm going for the t6/t5 rings, 2h and shadow hood for the DGS application. I'm not obsessive about gathering every item or not dying, so I'm cool with their method of speed running. I guess I'll even prep with doing team runs on W117 though I wonder if that'll insert bad habits where there are none at the moment. The thing I find odd is that with as well written guides there are on here and DGS, why aren't there videos that highlight tips and tricks that are difficult to explain with the written word. At the very least show what they're expecting to be done at guardian doors and bosses. So I guess I'm for the most efficient method since unlike most other things in RS, efficient in DG does not translate to most expensive.

True. I don't see why Jagex should remove the GE Because the GE removes much of the player to player interaction that goes with MMORPG. Now, I would not like to see it removed. However, I would love to see the amount of items that can be traded more limited. Something along the line of 1k per 4 hours for consumables down to 1 per hour for rares. Want to buy more more quickly? Well, trade on the open market with actual players that gathered bulk. In other words, let the GE be there for casual players that don't really care about time and quick turn around. For large purchases and flipping profit, leave that to player to player trades.

People who have jobs have the upper hand on this. Most jobs don't require you to work on weekends, but university students like myself usually have a shit ton of work to do on the weekend. Oh, that's so cute. I'm going to check back on you in five years when you're actually on a job path. Something tells me you're going to look fondly back on the time in university when you had so much free time.

I'll give Jagex credit, they could have advertised this for next week or maybe a bigger event for the US thanksgiving holiday and gotten quite a few re-upped subs. Instead they did a surprise bonus weekend with little fan fair. This genuinely feels like both an after nuke reward and a thank you to the players that gave a large amount of positive feedback to removing many of the complicated bots. I won't benefit from this bonus, but I don't think that means I should bad mouth it. It's my hope that some of the complaints on this thread about not being able to participate fully is in part tongue in cheek.

I read somewhere that Jagex is looking to update it, so it might be worth stacking the seeds in your bank. I t was a good bow, but that was before they buffed the crossbows and added Ava collector to reduce cost/shot or annoyance of picking up arrows. Considering though you can keep it at 10/10 for all its shots/deflections using the degrading trick, it still is a powerful bow and shield.

I'm going to stand by my guns on this one based on principle - if you give a "new" account copious amounts of wealth to start, then that would imbalance the game for [other] new players coming in, regardless if the main account had the cash or a friend. It may not mesh (and it seems we're on the same page with this one), but it's still a simple truth - making "newbies" wealthier than the average newbie causes balance issues. There's another way to fix it without going to Draconian measures (or thus risk losing what's left of the community): make the game depend less on wealth in the middle- to end-game. I can't argue with removing reliance on gp for mid and end game. Plus, they've made with Lumbridge tasks a way for any player to do quite well at the beginning. For the end game, the best weapons have nothing to do with GP as you have to get them via dungeoneering (leeching arguments aside). Some of the better aspects of game play come about via quests or skill leveling. Now, the skills are an issue just due to so many buyable ones. Guess Jagex could at least revamp the ones' you don't purchase and give better mid and end game rewards for those skills. In addition, create less click intensive and less repetitive methods to level these skills. I doubt people will moan if I get 50k xp an hour at mining even if I only did 120 clicks during that hour doing 30 unique tasks 4 times compared to the clicks required with normal mining. Yeah, it might be a dungeon mine mini game where I use firemaking, crafting, smithng and mining to get to deeper levels where the real experience is prior to restarting the game akin to pyramid plunder. Still, has to be better than clicking on 1 type of rock ad naseum. I've no issue with major end game items being not only untradeable, but only available to those with multiple high skills. If that means guys with high smithing, crafting, agility and firemaking get armor and weapons better that Nex drops, so be it. That BS that started with nerfing extremes and overloads needs to stop.

Here's the one thing working against Jagex: They claim they own the account and can do anything they want with it. They're saying in court: we freely gave the customers access to this account, we don't like how they used it, we kept giving them access to this and other accounts, please help us stop them from using stuff we voluntarily gave them and can easily take away from them. It's one of those 'want your cake and eat it too'. It's the very thing I hate how DMCA is being abused. Essentially it's: we don't want to make our product secure, we want to waste the tax dollars of US and Europe in court cost instead to financially force people to not exploit our unsecure product since that's cheaper than using our own resources to secure our own product. I was very proud of the technological leap Jagex did with the Bot Nuke. Now they're doing this 18th century legal thugery which just shames them. Jagex, it's a TOS. If you don't like how people use YOUR ACCOUNT then stop letting them use YOUR ACCOUNT. Unless you prove that you didn't give them access to YOUR ACCOUNT and they stole it, this is purely inaction on YOUR PART.