Since I feel this is an important topic, I now revive it thanks to the wonderful cache Google has built. I recommend that those of you interested in reviving your own topic do the same by searching for quoted phrases in your topics or posts, then using the Cached feature to re-post your topic. "Jagex, PvP Minigames Don't Replace the Wilderness." I quit a couple months ago due to the anti-goldfarming updates but occasionally return to these boards or RuneScape to see if anything's changed that would make the game enjoyable for me again. I've found even single-way Bounty Hunter to be very inadequate to that end, and I got to thinking of why. Jagex's mentality- that they can replace what was lost with the updates in December and early January- is already flawed with regard to the Wilderness. They want to replace what was lost from the Wilderness with "PvP minigames"- quite frankly, that approach will never adequately replace what made the Wilderness great. This isn't to say the Wilderness as it was had no flaws, but there were certainly great aspects to it that existed nowhere else in the game that cannot be replaced with pure PvP. What I'd like to focus on here is the importance of the presence of valuable resources in a dangerous PvP area, a condition that should yet no longer exists in the game. "This is good for the game." The aspect of the Wilderness that allowed players to attack one another was removed last December to combat the problem of credit fraud caused by goldfarmers as well as to suit Jagex's apparent dissatisfaction with the Wilderness system ("We've felt for a long time that some of this content needed changing anyway especially the Wilderness so this was a good opportunity for us to make it work better, more fun for our players and closer to our original intentions." - Mod Hobogaly, "RuneScape vs. Real-world Trading"). Apparently, both goals were accomplished to Jagex's satisfaction; the game was mostly free of the hordes of bots and goldfarmers that had previously plagued the game and the gameplay, according to Jagex, had been improved by segregating PvP and other game content. The Road to Hell Yes, bots were gone- but what of gameplay? Nowhere else in RuneScape were both skilling and PvP integrated like in the Wilderness. This integration created a unique gaming environment that combined aspects of PvP combat-based games with MMORPG skilling in a way that addressed some of the flaws in both. When you play shooters or RTS games, the only consequence of winning or losing a match is generally only an effect on your statistics or the potential gain of bragging rights. There is no long-term effect on how you will be playing the game later on or any long-term consequence of those actions on other players. Skilling is different in that the actions you take build upon themselves and result in the accumulation of items or experience, which may affect how you play the game later down the road; you gain more options or faster paths to rewards or additional game content. The drawbacks? The sheer drudgery of it all; repetitive clicking without being more than minimally engaged in your task. To some, the rewards of skilling didn't justify the time it took to reach them; to others, pure combat was not sufficiently profitable and/or enjoyable. The Wilderness was a beautiful compromise: it presented some skillers with a reliable source of wealth (such as the abyss and runite), yet it broke the monotony of skilling with the promise of danger and on-your-toes thinking involved in combat or escape and, for those strong enough, the promise of a worthwhile reward for defeating their attackers. Skillers who don't enjoy skilling for its own sake or stand-alone combat now have nowhere to turn for excitement; what gives? Risk and Reward I used to be an f2p Wilderness runite miner myself. I both fought and ran from maxed-out players, every conceivable kind of pure, and massive clans, all so I could (hopefully) pocket about 250k+ every half-hour or so. Very few other miners were around then compared to now- Why? The Wilderness is substantially less dangerous now than it was prior to December of last year. Now, Wilderness skillers have only slow, brain-dead revenants to deal with and no guarantee of a good reward for defeating them. Unless you're a very low level or lack adequate equipment, revenants are ridiculously easy to escape from; this is easily proven by the around-the-clock absence of ore and the ever-growing presence of miners who don't even bother wearing armor anymore (before I quit, I often saw up to four miners mining a rock simultaneously, not including myself). This ties into a different mistake Jagex made- eliminating danger from nearly every other aspect of the game- but that's for another discussion. Skillers now easily gain items that they once had to be quite clever or powerful to gain; there is no challenge. omg plz dont kill me Computer games that involve fighting of any sort generally have a very well-defined, arbitrary good and evil set forth by the game's creators; generally, the player is the good guy fighting the bad guy or more rarely the other way around (or sometimes there is no good and evil, and you're just fighting for the sake of fighting). But how often do a player's choices have long-term effects on others' gaming experience? How often is the player the one who defines "good" and "evil" in a game? The Wilderness presented a moral backdrop very different from the rest of the game; any person who stepped in could choose to attack or defend others, regardless of whether or not they were innocent or able to defend themselves. Merely by presenting the "good" players with opportunities for reward if they were willing to risk their lives against the "evil" players who fed off of their skilling abilities, the Wilderness had created bullies and defenders, heroes and villains- a dynamic defined by the nature of the players and not by Jagex. That's been destroyed, too. Greedy or sadistic players now fight each other, and the people who liked playing hero (like me) or were otherwise innocent victims are an extinct breed. Bottom Line When Jagex made the decision to separate skilling and PvP, they dealt a magnificent blow to one of the most ingenious aspects of their game. They claim that they're seeking to "replace" what was lost with the Wilderness, but they don't understand that a great deal of what made it great was not merely its PvP aspect but the merging of it with skilling. I needn't go into differences between the Wilderness and existing or planned and officially announce) PvP minigames; those should be obvious and indeed those who have fully experienced the Wilderness understand the inadequacy of such minigames when it comes to repairing RuneScape's currently dismal PvP (though personally I can't say I miss Edgeville) to a state as good as or better than the old. Jagex needs to know that they're headed in the wrong direction. What do you think?