warshadow212

No, not from your elitist thinking, as a p2per, could you possibly think that f2p is just a demo. IF f2p is just a demo, then p2p has to be that dang good! Truth is, p2p is THAT DANG GOOD! Summoning is p2p only. Again, we're not JaGEx. Who's to say they won't give f2p a bone? I don't think f2p is a complete game, it's a demo without the "Your time limit is up. If you want to play more RS, sign up for members!" messages. It's also close to a really good complete game. Honestly, I think they should revamp the stats page, so that all f2p skills show in f2p, and the one we see now be p2p only. I'm not on the side for summoning being f2p-partial. I wasn't ever. I've said it many times over. But, to release a portion of a p2p skill into f2p to rejuvenate the economy would have been timely in this time of major updates (GE, Duel Arena, BH). ~WSW~

jimbob, good for you to drop down, but I don't think you will... after all, you paid for more than gettin 99 construction. You paid for a cr*pload of new weapons, armor, monsters, skills, etc. Plus 4x the f2p land. Anyways, I don't think you read all the OT. I said portions of it. We won't be able to brew any drinks, except possibly tea. Maybe not even that. Maybe we won't be able to make a kitchen in f2p. Anyways, probably a max of 15 rooms is best for f2p. ^^^ even this is speculation. So don't get worked up about it. Construction is too new, and it doesn't have to be the one that get dropped down to f2p. Although, since RS is posted on Miniclip, akin to Club Penguin, my sister had an account there, and they got player-owned igloos, even f2p. And a hell of a lot of little kids go play that game. So, what's to stop JaGEx from doing the same thing? Of course, herby or fletching could drop down, more likely than construction. Or maybe f2p won't get a thing. Hey, we're not JaGEx. We don't know. ~WSW~

Um, agility, you have to pay to get into the courses. Other than that, there's not too many low lvl agility shortcuts you can take. Those other skills you've pointed out, yes, you can not buy them (besides the tools needed). But, mining leads to either profit or raising smithing, which is a far more honored skill. WC leads to either profit, fletching, construction, or FM, the latter two that not many people want or have the time to attain 99 in. Fishing is just a supplement to cooking. You can cook without fishing, so of course, Fishing is a profit maker. Slower now, since there's no old-school pking. Hunter is like a pastime, what else can you really do with it? Rabbit's feet necklace, spotted/ier capes, gloves of silence, chinchompas, imp boxes - they supplement other skills, or assist you in your day-to-day activities. Alching is profitable (i.e. you gain Magic exp for alching), but only for that. You're right, liquid, JaGEx looked into the game and saw people profiting off of alching. They stopped it with the GE, manipulating price controls so that alching for profit would stop. As far as auto-correction, yes that's more based on supply and demand, as most people won't be alching items that are in high demand. Yew longs are the only thing worth alching, and now, they're not. I guess JaGEx wants us to find other things to alch. ~WSW~

I like your point. I'd also like to add to that, there will be a sharp rise of normal log prices if fletching does come to f2p, then it'll steady, because then everyone will most likely keep their own logs. Willows will eventually rise back to 30 per as they once were (bows). Mmm.... can't wait to see where they put a flax field in. That'll be real nice. I'm thinking Rimmington. As for Construction... well, I had a house on p2p, and I want to finish it. LOL. ~WSW~

Not so likely. Doesn't have to do anything with Summoning. Especially if it's not f2p. I don't think it's a dungeon, because SoS is pretty close by; even closer is the Hill Giants. It's not a mine, because then mining would be too easy to make money off of, or of course flood the market with. Anyone else care to guess what could be on JaGEx's mind? ~WSW~

Bob, you do have to spend money for fletching. It's harder to buy fletching than magic though. You can easily cut wood @ lvl 1, and make it into shafts @ fletch lvl 1. You could also buy enough wood, and lose money by doing that, but you gain experience. You could buy all the flax you want instead of picking it, saving some time. Money is spent to save time, time that could be used for other things, like leveling other skills. With magic (albeit, we're mainly talking about nature runes), you can only rc nats @ lvl 44, not lvl 1 rc. It's EASIER to buy nats than make em yourself, and unfortunately, it's the only way f2p gets nats. That's why it costs money to do both fletching and magic, moreso with magic than fletching. ~WSW~

1) "inbalencedly" is not a word. try "to execute an unbalanced trade" 2) unfortunately, for 1 item to be 13k in a player's opinion and 200k in JaGEx's opinion, that's not up to players. JaGEx sets a price, and players work with it. That's how it all started, even back from the beginning of RS2. (i can't say for RSC b/c I haven't played it.) Now, with the "unbalanced" rise in prices since 2001, JaGEx felt it was necessary to bring back price controls to steady the economy, in which the poor got poorer and the rich got uber-freakin-richer. RWT is not the only problem. You wonder why JaGEx stopped players from trading holiday items. They had to take it up on their shoulders and do something about it. ~WSW~

It always was 4m....? Learn English pl0x when did you start playing? it was 1.2-1.4mil from 2006 to early 2007, it rose during summer-fall of 2007 to 4mil. "pl0x" = not English, too. ~WSW~

Where have you been... OT: Like the person above me said, I doubt someone would summon something just to kill the random. It's not like our attack and str and such will be any higher, so I don't know if they'll be raised or not. I'll have to see how much summoning familiars are used, since there is a time limit, but I don't think they'll be raised that much, if at all. No, but even with 99 atk/str/def, we can still manage to kill high lvls as Jad (lvl 702). 170 is a walk in the park for most high lvls. ~WSW~

http://www.tip.it/runescape/index.php?p ... n_lair.htm pic says lvl-170. ~WSW~

So you clearly don't know what comparative advantage is. It's when you do something that has the least opportunity cost. Having a low income still gives you options therefore there is no good reason to be self-sufficient. You do what you are best at doing (or for low levels, what you are least bad at doing). The only person who is better off being self-sufficient is the person who sucks at absolutely everything. It sounded more like he was saying that it was not comparative advantage and it was, instead, efficiency. I merely corrected that to say that they are both, in fact, related. No, I know what comparative advantage is. When I meant "it", I meant being 100% self-sufficient is not an advantage. Furthermore, to have any comparative advantage you need money, ergo, my further reasoning for (close to) 100% self-sufficiency (people who don't have the money need to be 100% self-sufficient - most cases anyways). ~WSW~

Well, technically, bartering is trading without a formal currency (that would define values based on the whole of society). Unfortunately, that would run into 2 obstacles: (1) Every item in RS would have no value whatsoever. GP currency has to be taken out of the system. (2) It's too late now to tell everyone that that dinky little crown some few people wear is only worth a log. People would barter a party hat for a log, and it would work. This could only happen if everyone did not know that a phat is worth tons of millions. True, true, it's not an advantage. But you have to think about the people who don't have enough money from killing monsters or lack of merchanting skills (I mean, to not know where the GE is). I know I'm about to be self-sufficient myself to gain my goals, one which includes making as much money as possible on my own. I can't wait to start. ~WSW~

Actually with the price of the nature rune your losing more money than you gain. And if you ever bought gold bars before the grand exchange update you'd know the average price was around 120. \ Actually, I have always been a seller, and I never sold lower than 180. =; You can high alch a gold bar? You can turn a gold item into ... gold? cool. but is thats true, then...arent all items in the ge around their high alch prices? your "gold bar into gold" statement was quite redundant. you can alch anything (except coins), even the nats themselves. and, no, they're actually lower than you think. ~WSW~

Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Exactly how it was. Why is he right? All skills, if you don't do every aspect of raising that skill, will cost money. If you don't craft nats yourself, and you don't mine the iron and coal to make steel bars yourself, you're not gonna make a profit if you superheat and sell on the ge. Experience costs money. Look at cooked vs. raw food. Isn't it cheaper to buy alrdy cooked? That's because the experience is added into the cost. If you buy raw food for more money, you're buying experience points! ~WSW~

That's exactly what I'm thinking. However will they put it in right when the skill is released or wait a few months before everything has settled down a bit. It occurred to me how awkward it would be if the first person to get to 99 summoning used Pest Control. EDIT: Slayer is not a direct combat stat. It does not affect your combat level so I don't treat it as one. No, but Combat is directly related to Slayer. You still kill a monster the same way, you just get assigned that monster. You still get Atk/Str/Def/HP exp for it. You have to raise Combat when you raise Slayer. Not necessary to get 99 stats in all direct combat skills to get 99 Slayer (as seen in "Untrimmed Slayer Cape"). ~WSW~

Slayer is related to combat, however, it does not get any credit in PC. If Summoning were to get it, Slayer has to get it too. ~WSW~

On-topic: Yeah, PC pts rewards don't do slayer, which is technically also part of combat, since you raise both as you do a slayer task.

once again, i didn't say the whole p2p skill come down to f2p. I meant just a portion of it, like crafting. let me know when you can craft black dhide set in f2p k? jeez, this thread was meant for ideas. not flaming, or even the above cr*p in quotes... go cancel your membership now, because summoning might be f2p-partial. ~WSW~

y? pc is easy without summoning partners by your side. thats unless youre in a boat full of idiot noobs. lol ~WSW~

cw does suck a bit. But you answered your own rant. Everything builds up eventually. That's the whole game. When you wc, u click on tree, and with an axe, you chop it down. Eventually, that's a pleasing distraction for you. Why? In a couple seconds you gained exp. Would it suck if the game were: Welcome to Runescape. and your exp would go: 100 -> 160 -> 220 -> etc. all by itself? That's no fun at all. This is why BH was made, so that you HAVE restrictions. As soon as you kill ur target, you get ur prize, no restriction. You can stay, you can walk away. I think you mean, if you go rogue (kill a non-target), you pick up their stuff, you have a 3 minute wait time before you leave. I'm sorry, I forgot, you can't bring in anything else that is not needed. Like lvl3 bot accs carrying multiple sets of full rune in. If a lvl 30 main acc + 9 lvl 3 bot accs are in the first room, yeah, they could possibly go ape on each other to make it look good. But, the lvl 30 could just kill em all, fearing no death from 9 lvl 3s... Clan Wars (great another CW) - we got wildy capes on f2p. Use those before you go in. might help. I'm sure like JaGEx sells gravestones ingame, you could possibly buy a clan. IDK. ~WSW~

Now, I've been getting some conflicting reports that I have a limit on how much I can give. I know I can give only the amount it says on the limit of the person I'm trading. Can someone please verify this? Or is it that I'm giving out too much money to too many ppl? I don't think I'm doing something wrong. EDIT: I've confirmed it myself. It's based on the person giving out the extra cash, not the one receiving. Wow, we're screwed. Pardon my french. ~WSW~

Of course you don't. You're alrdy lvl 126. I'm sure you can gather materials like no one's business. Yeah, I kinda got into the Rcing thing late... right smackdab in the middle of the limitation... lol ~WSW~

After a couple days, we've been hearing speculation ourselves about the existence of Summoning on f2p. We have had contradicting claims from J-mods about this. Some J-mods have said yes to f2p, some said no to f2p. This means this thread is still applicable. There's still prospect of an old p2p skill coming to f2p. I can have hope in this. If not, then RS is pretty much dead. ~WSW~

Wait, could I get a clarification from someone? I haven't been on runescape since all these updates happened; and I don't plan to for a while too. Say I were to make a trade and I paid 3k for a law rune, and 3k is my max. Does that mean I am not able to trade again for 15 mins? No it just means you couldn't pay over the actual price of an item minus the current price of laws (around 300) at the Grand Exchange. So you could say get 5700 ish gp from another player and then give away 6000gp and so on. No actually, he can pay 3k for a law rune. As long as he's paying 3k gp, and the law rune is at around 300 gp, he's losing 2.7k gp. He can still make 3k gp gain (to him) anytime, but after he makes that gain, he can't gain any more money from people until 1 minute, when he can gain 200 gp. This is applicable to f2p and p2pers with less than 50 qp, i believe. Since 200/3k = 6.67% per minute, that might be the ratio to use to know how much money you can get in any amount of time, between 0 and 15 minutes. I'm not sure, if any p2per, that has noticed this, can prove this 6.67% per minute recovery, please let me know, in a post/PM. I'll credit you in the OT. Thanks. ~WSW~

The 3k gp per 15 minute limitation works if you gain 3k gp in one trade. After that, you cannot recieve any more gp, until in 1 minute, when you can gain 200 gp. Increases every 200 gp/minute, until 15 minutes, when it gets back to 3k. ~WSW~